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Mayberry Machiavelli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 01:23 PM
Original message
Critical mass/freefall turning point: Happening Now? My sense of it...
This gets posted about frequently on DU. I thought it might happen, but felt I'd withhold judgement until a few things happened:

1) shrub polling numbers freefall until his support/approval consistently below 50%

2) Mainstream media commentators OPENLY critical of shrubco and openly questioning their competency and fitness to govern (i.e. overcoming their preceding fear and intimidation)

3) Visceral sense of this change occuring in the national mood. Can't you feel it?

I feel that all 3 conditions have been met. Living in the Dallas area, I always felt that I'd be the last to sense #3, and #3 takes a different shape here than elsewhere.

If it got to a point where wealthy people in Dallas were openly saying they would vote for JK and saying shrubco was through, he definitely should resign, because he'd be down to like 5-10% support nationally at that point (i.e. leaving just ahead of the torch wielding mob). So things would have to get a lot worse than even now.

But what I DO hear is open criticism of the disaster that is the Iraq invasion/occupation. And even those talking up the RW echo chamber "message" du jour (Berg vid should whip up our fervor, shows why we are doing this etc.), the desperation and TENSION in these folks is palpable. They are almost ready to get into a fistfight if anyone looks at them crosseyed. They are talking the talk, but you know the fear is there.
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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
1. yes MM me too, I have been smelling a JFK landslide on the breeze
Edited on Sat May-15-04 01:27 PM by AZDemDist6
which is now feeling like a gale :)

As far as their fear goes, I see us Dems ready to fight right back toe to toe (finally!)
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RC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. JFK = John Fitzgerald Kennedy
On November 22, 1963, when he was hardly past his first thousand days in office, John Fitzgerald Kennedy was killed by an assassin's bullets as his motorcade wound through Dallas, Texas.

So I think JFK is long past smelling anything.

I think you mean JK or John Kerry, who is on record as not wanting anyone to use JFK when they are referring to him.
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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #10
21. point taken, I will note for future postings thanks eom
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Melodybe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
2. Torturegate was the last straw for plenty, with every passing day it
is harder for Bushco to steal another election. Yes, I feel it people are tired, broke, and pissed. The tide has turned, and every day it gets stronger, by Nov Kerry will win in a landslide.
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happynewyear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. yep Torturegate is worse than 9/11
because its long tentacles have yet to be revealed. This is not going away sadly enough.

What a horrific way to have to go. That is about all I can say being I am so very disgusted. :nuke:
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Must_B_Free Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. I think that's just it - people are tired of it
Bush has been one steady stream of progressively worse news for the last three and 1/2 years.
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maggrwaggr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
3. even Kristol on The Daily show
admitted Bush has "driven us into a ditch".

If a guy like Kristol is saying that, things have DEFINITELY changed.

There's been a big turning point.

Which is why I feel Bushco is at their most dangerous NOW.

There's no telling what they'll do at this point.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. bushco junta likely to do anything they ever suggested Saddam would do
Their M.O. has always been the projection of their own worst impulses and actions onto others.
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tnlefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. Ah oh....he gassed his own people...he gassed his own people!!!
anthrax, ricine that was distributed through the main post office in my area

wonder what it would be
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #3
20. Like fake a beheading just at the right time?
Or actually DO the beheading.

Makes you wonder.
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SharonAnn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #3
23. Our conservative Repub Rep, John Duncan is criticizing
GWB's Iraq plan and budget situation.

Of course he's one of the few who voted against the war in Iraq, but nonetheless, he usually doesn't openly criticize *.
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kaitykaity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
5. Bush has lost the military.
The generals know he will hang them out to dry at
the first opportunity.

Bush has lost key supporters on the right--Kristol
is a good example, George Will another, Tucker Carlson
another. Even critical comments by a Republican like
Sen. Lindsay Graham were unheard of a year ago.

The media is less somnambulistic that it has been
since 2001. They aren't letting the torture story go,
especially since there are court martials quickly approaching.

So, yes, I'm with you in that I have more hope now than
I have had in a long time.

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LibertyorDeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Good Sig Line
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kaitykaity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Thanks.
I got it out of a book called Friendly Fascism
bt Bertram Gross. It was written back in 1980, but he
was so prescient it's scary.
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LibertyorDeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. Sounds like a good read. Will check it out...

Cheers :)
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kaitykaity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Excerpts available online here
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Fascism/Friendly_Fasc...

I ended up having to actually buy the book, but only found it
at Amazon.
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. dang, thought *i* invented the phrase 'friendly fascism'
which i concocted as a counter to 'compassionate conservativism'.

oh well, there's no original thoughts anymore....
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RBHam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
8. Desperate people do desperate things
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/nov2003/warn-n27.shtm...

The war on terror and American democracysome ominous warnings
By Patrick Martin
27 November 2003
Use this version to print | Send this link by email | Email the author

Three commentaries published recently in the US media, all by well-connected observers of the US military, have suggested that a major new terrorist attack within the United States could disrupt the 2004 elections and even result in military intervention on the streets of America as well as the suspension of the Constitution.

On Friday, November 21, the right-wing web news service Newsmax.com published an account of the interview given by General Tommy Franks to the lifestyle magazine Cigar Aficionado.

Franks said that a terrorist attack employing a weapon of mass destruction and causing mass casualties, either in the United States or against an ally, would likely result in replacing the American Constitution with a military government.

As the commander of CentCom, Franks led US forces in the conquest of Afghanistan in 2001 and the invasion of Iraq earlier this year, before retiring during the summer. In his magazine interview, he outlined this scenario:

It means the potential of a weapon of mass destruction and a terrorist, massive, casualty-producing event somewhere in the Western worldit may be in the United States of Americathat causes our population to question our own Constitution and to begin to militarize our country in order to avoid a repeat of another mass, casualty-producing event. Which in fact, then begins to unravel the fabric of our Constitution. Two steps, very, very important.

Frank remains a fervent supporter of the Bush administration, describing Bush as a very thoughtful man, and declaring, Probably well think of him in years to come as an American hero.

But according to Franks, it may be under the administration of this hero that the Western world, the free world, loses what it cherishes most, and that is freedom and liberty weve seen for a couple of hundred years in this grand experiment that we call democracy.

The retired general placed the responsibility for this possible turn to dictatorship on our population, and was silent on what role the military leadership or the Bush administration would play in its establishment. The American media has apparently failed to ask him anything about it since.

more...
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. STOP, LOOK and LISTEN.
And if you are able, READ.
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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. Y'know
Ordinarily I'd regard that as the musings of a pessimist... until he tacked on the bit about it being OUR FAULT because we'd COMPEL the chimp to become our Napoleon. The dickhead's pitching an idea as a favor to his beloved Shrub. In a magazine Limbaugh regularly flogs to his dittohead nation. Fucking asshole wants this to happen!
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
14. My experience this morning.
I went out to run some errands this morning and within a 10 minute period I saw 2 cars with anti-administration stickers etc. One was a guy driving a prius with a sign in the window that said "Ten million jobs. johnkerry.com" The other was a pickup with lots of progressive-type bumper stickers. I parked next to this guy and struck up a conversation as we walked toward the store. He said he is a Vietnam vet and they "got screwed over" then and he's sick of what's going on now.

Folks - this is UNHEARD OF in my neck of the woods. Do I dare to hope that things are changing?
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nostamj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. a true poll
would make Rove and * crap their pants and short-out crashcart.

they have no idea how hated they are...
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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #14
22. I notice I am trying to be a more courteous driver now I have a
Edited on Sat May-15-04 03:24 PM by AZDemDist6
"John Kerry 2004" sticker on my car. I don't want anybody to see me pull an idiot move and be able to say "Those stupid Dems need to learn to drive" or whatever

silly maybe, but I strive to be a good rolemodel for JK :bounce:
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