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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 01:19 PM
Original message
The associate who got Bergs email password is the key to this story?
Edited on Sat May-15-04 01:20 PM by trumad
I'm harping on this thing because I can't believe that nobody, (as far as I can see) has identified the guy who supposedly got Nick Bergs email password and then forwarded it to Moussaoui. This part of the story is so muddled that I don't know if it was Moussaoui that got the password from Berg or an associate.

On one hand you've got Bergs father saying his
<snip> son gave a man on a bus the password to his account because "Whoever was next to my son was treated with great respect and friendship."
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/14/iraq.berg/ind...

Ummm...Was it Moussaoui or was it an associate of Moussaoui?

and then you read:


<snip>
According to Berg, his son was taking a course a few years ago at a remote campus of the University of Oklahoma near an airport. He described how on one particular day, his son met "some terrorist people -- who no one knew were terrorists at the time."

At one point during the bus ride, Berg said, the man sitting next to his son asked if he could use Nick's laptop computer.

"It turned out this guy was a terrorist and that he, you know, used my son's e-mail, amongst many other people's e-mail who he did the same thing to," Berg said.

Government sources said Berg gave the man his password, which was later used by Moussaoui, the sources said.
http://us.cnn.com/2004/US/Northeast/05/13/berg.encounte... /

Both of these pieces are from CNN. The first one is dated May 14th at 8:40pm..the second is dated May 14th at 8:01 am. Too me, that's a significant change in the story. Get to the bottom of this mystery and it may reveal more than we currently know...MHOP

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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
1. terrorist people -- who no one knew were terrorists at the time.
pas rectifiez mon ami...some people knew, and did nothing to stop the flight training. I think Berg was working as a spy for our government and uncovered something that got him killed.
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JM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I think you are close...
1) Moussaoui somehow gets Berg's account info at University
2) FBI investigates Berg in 2002. Sommehow this evades the national media radar. Notice how everything else is immediately published (Padilla, Lackawanna 6, etc...) but not this.
3) Berg goes to Iraq in search of work without a contract in place. This means our own government has no official record of him in Iraq.
4) Nobody can seem to find a record of Berg's company.
5) Berg gets hauled in by Iraq and/or US in Iraq.

It seems to me this could indicate our own goverment may have tried to use this guy to infiltrate the other side. Once he was caught by the Iraqis and/or our own government, anyone on the other side would believe he was comprimised and execute him.

While possible, I am not sure how probable this scenario would be.

JM
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doni_georgia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Plus
He traveled to several third world countries including Uganda (as an exchange student with the School for International Training), and Ghanna (supposedly to teach them how to make bricks). He attended Drexel, Cornell, University of PA, and Oklahoma. He just happened to transfer to University of Oklahoma to a campus near a flight training school at the same time Moussaoui was there.

Also, he did electrical wiring for the Republican National Convention in 2000. And the conservative rag Newsmax is reporting that he had a Koran and another "Anti-Semitic" book with him when he was arrested in Iraq (http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/5/14/95211.shtm... )


I find it hard to believe that our government would allow someone they investigated for connections to Moussaoui into Iraq. He flew in supposedly on Royal Jordanian Air. What are the procedures for clearing customs in Iraq? Who is operating customs? Wouldn't have to be the US, since we are occupying that government?

Way too many inconsistencies here.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. No, no, no, no
Edited on Sat May-15-04 02:07 PM by Eloriel
1) Moussaoui somehow gets Berg's account info at University

That's been explained, and satisfactorily IMO. I myself saw a clip of Berg's father explain it on TV. Berg made friends with people of all sorts of backgrounds. An Arab acquaintance asked if he could use berg's email account, Berg agreed. The email password was eventually passed on to Moussaoui, as were a number of others.

2) FBI investigates Berg in 2002. Sommehow this evades the national media radar. Notice how everything else is immediately published (Padilla, Lackawanna 6, etc...) but not this.

Do you have any idea how many THOUSANDS of people have been questioned by the FBI whose names never made it to the news? In fact, how many thousands are DETAINED. Berg was never detained by the FBI in those investigations. His story must've panned out.

3) Berg goes to Iraq in search of work without a contract in place. This means our own government has no official record of him in Iraq.

Our government most certainly DID have an official record of him being there. He signed in with the Consulate when he got there.

4) Nobody can seem to find a record of Berg's company.

Also not true. There've been quotes by people in the business who worked with him, hired him, etc. There have also been reports that on the first trip to Iraq (this was his second) he actually did some work.

Further, that ridiculous article that the state has no record of his INCORPORATED business is bunk, IMO. This was the very first mention I've seen where it was called "Inc." As I've pointed out on several threads, and others have too, it's not in the least uncommon for small businesses consisting of basically one person in them (as his was, plus his dad who did "business manager" stuff for him, probably paperwork like invoices and stuff, maybe keeping the books) and which are NOT incorporated because unless there's a need for it, it's expensive (lawyer fees, filing fees) and a pain in the rear (quarterly reports, annual Directors Meetings, etc., and a legal hassle to end them too).

I hope people will try to pay a little more attention to the REAL facts because if you start speculating on a false "fact," it'll damn sure lead you down the wrong damn road.

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doni_georgia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. PA State Dept. has do records of his company - link
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. That doesn't really mean anything.
I've had a small "one person" business for 2 years without ever registering with the Dept. of State. I did register in order to get a sales tax exemption for resale in order to buy products from wholesalers. Prior to that registration, nobody knew I had a business.

BTW, if I didn't have to register, I wouldn't have! It's also a PIA.
99% of my sales are out of state, but I still have to fill out that stupid Sales Tax report every month!
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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. El... The CNN stories were posted just yesterday
and they clearly state that this occured on a bus.... Explain the two different descriptions of how the email password was obtained... Hey..you may me 100 percent right but all I'm asking is that a Journalist at least track down the Arab acquaintance that you refer to and question ask him about his recollection of this event.
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JM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. Fair enough, if true...
...Seems the "facts" keep changing at a rapid pace. I posted based on what I had available to me as of yesterday.

Notice, however, I did post it was possible, though not probable.

Later,
JM
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Aunt Anti-bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. I did find a company called PROMETHEUS in West Chester
This was from the Pennsylvania Department Of State's website which I have used before to check on business I've been employed with in the past. It didn't list Nicholas Berg and there were other companies in PA with the Prometheus in their name but this was the only one in West Chester.

https://www.dos.beta.state.pa.us/CorpsApp/Corpsweb/Sear...

Entity Type PENNSYLVANIA BUSINESS CORPORATION
Entity Name PROMETHEUS UNBOUND, LTD.
Entity No. 2105635
Filing Date 09/01/1992 Letter of Consent No
Address 893 MATLACK ST,STE 220
WEST CHESTER Pennsylvania USA 19382
County Chester Jurisdiction PA
Purpose BROAD

Limited Authority No


Corporate Officers
Updated Date 09/01/1992
President FREDERIC S RICHARDSON

Secretary THEODORE D NERING

Treasurer EMIL J MOLIN

Vice-President -
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rumguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
2. how would you find him?
:shrug:
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Must_B_Free Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
4. This is clearly implying that he had wireless internet on his laptop
So for the person to think he could simply send an email from Nick's Laptop on the bus means he would have to know Nick well and know what he had. I mean, it wasn't all that common.

I think he was friends with associates of Moussaoui.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #4
16. And that spells Mossad.
The threads regarding Mossad and 9-11 are legion. Before the attacks, the Israelis did a better job of warning the American public than Washington did. Israel also did a better job than the FBI in looking into terrorist turds of the BFEE like Moussaoui. Check out those Israelis "art students" out and about near Florida flight schools:

http://www.rense.com/general21/ex.htm


OTOH: There were some "art students" busted in NYC celebrating 9-11.

http://ww1.sundayherald.com/37707


Lots o' detail at:

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/wot/sept11/911mossad...
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. And Tinker AFB
April 22, 2002


"... MacDill Air Force Base intelligence officers were warned in March 2001 of the art students' efforts. A month later, a special alert was issued about a "possible intelligence collection effort" at Tinker Air Force Base in Oklahoma City - among other activities, the base houses AWACS surveillance planes and repairs B-1 bombers."


http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=12928
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darkstar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
8. Hey
Edited on Sat May-15-04 03:21 PM by darkstar
I've kinda been keeping this whole topic at arms length until yesterday, and even then only coming at it from the "Who was he"--rest in peace--angle, not the video forensics.

The curious list for me (some are unsubtantiated):

Imagine he hadn't died and you shared a long cab ride last night.

"Yeah I helped to wire the convention in '00 and went through the standard security meausres, but then the 20th hijacker somehow got my email password and so I got interviewd by the FBI post 911. Then, I went knocking around Iraq on my own looking for work for my far-below-radar business, climbed some towers, got picked up and questioned by the FBI again, maybe b/c because they didn't have a record of my subcontracting out to anyone and they found this wierd literature in my car. In fact I'm not sure who held me, b/c Iraq and the U.S. both officially denied it. But my Dad, a spokespesron for ANSWER who was on a right wing web site's enemies list, sued Rumsfeld. And I got released immediately. And then I came face to face with Z..."

At any rate, I feel awkward even listing the above as it seems to me to somehow tread upon his recent death. I hope he is at peace. Same for his family. However, if there is some important truth to his life that someone would rather see suppressed, I hope it emerges.

On edit:

Removed part of post. Lots of same covered while I wrote. Some debunked, it seems, i.e. his business. Which I appreciate. The implications are so distressing, I really truly hope the undebunked items are merely coincidences. So please, feel free to point out innaccuricies in news accounts, stuff shown to be hearsay, etc.

On second edit:

Checked out two that seemed the least substantiated to me as I wrote orginal:

Senor said that in Iraq, Berg had no affiliation with the U.S. government, the coalition or ''to my knowledge'' any coalition-affiliated contractor. But Senor would not specify why Iraqi police, who generally take direction from coalition authorities, had arrested him and held him.

http://www.boston.com/dailynews/133/world/Americans_den...


U.S. officials have said Berg was arrested on March 24 because of suspicious behavior. For one thing, he was moving about in a dangerous place without any escort. For another, a U.S. official said, Berg was Jewish but was carrying texts that seemed anti-Semitic.

http://www.nbc5.com/news/3300057/detail.html??z=dp&dpsw...


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bobbieinok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. texts that seemed anti-semitic ...... Koran is now viewed as anti-semitic?
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maryallen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Elders of Zion was ...
Purportedly the second book.

Someone on DU posted an article that referred to the two books.
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NecessaryOnslaught Donating Member (691 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
9. Berg worked a few hundred feet from Moussaoui's Place
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DUreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. Trumad needs to see your thread, copy/paste it here
Edited on Sat May-15-04 04:59 PM by DUreader
oh what the hell, I'll do it

On Edit: Formatting didn't hold thru copy/paste, click on the link for

an easier reading experience


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

NecessaryOnslaught (142 posts) Sat May-15-04 01:09 AM
Original message
Nick E. Berg as the Oklahoma Kid.Edited on Sat May-15-04 02:04 AM by NecessaryOnslaught
"Al Qaeda operative Zacarias Moussaoui arrived in Norman in February 2001 and was a student at the Airman Flight School until May. As an Airman student he was housed in OU dormitories."
http://members.aol.com/mpwright9/sting.html
"al-Attas, who was an engineering student at the University of Oklahoma, had shared an apartment with Moussaoui and at least one other person for several weeks."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/07/25/attack/main51...
Hussein Al-Attas, a University College senior, and Mukkaram Ali were arrested within a couple days of Sept. 11. Al-Attas drove Moussaoui to Minnesota in August.
Both lived in Kraettli Apartments on the OU campus in an apartment with OU senior Aiham Rabih, according to a university source. Neither Al-Attas nor Ali were on the lease for the apartment.
http://www.oudaily.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2001/11/08/3... ...
"According to independent researcher MP Wright (Oklahoma), who provided his results also to OkC Channel 9 newsman Gan Matthews, Nick E. Berg is listed as an OU employee for the period between academic year 2000-2001.
Wright checked the University of Oklahoma personnel directory.
His title was Public Events Attendant at the Lloyd Noble
Arena, which could mean, he was a kind of "janitor"."
http://inn.globalfreepress.com/modules/news/article.php...
http://www.ou.edu/visitorcenter/vc_campus_map.htm
"one of the terrorist's tickets for the Pennsylvania flight was purchased on a public computer terminal in the University of Oklahoma library. The OU librarian who informed me of this assumed that the young Caucasion American male who ordered the ticket was involved with a neo-Nazi group whose members shared Al Qaeda's hatred for Israel."
http://members.aol.com/mpwright9/sting.html
" The FBI apparently conducted a lengthy investigation of Berg in captivity because they were checking out a possible friendship or other tie with an Arab at the University of Oklahoma who was under scrutiny in connection with the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks.
The source said that in addition to his passport, cash and a laptop, Berg had two books when he was arrested in Mosul on March 24 that aroused suspicion: the Koran and a book that authorities somehow interpreted as "anti-Semitic." "
http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/news/local/8654371.htm
"Government sources told CNN that the encounter involved an acquaintance of Zacarias Moussaoui -- the only person publicly charged in the United States in connection with the September 11, 2001, terror attacks.
According to Berg, his son was taking a course a few years ago at a remote campus of the University of Oklahoma near an airport. He described how on one particular day, his son met "some terrorist people -- who no one knew were terrorists at the time."
"It turned out this guy was a terrorist and that he, you know, used my son's e-mail, amongst many other people's e-mail who he did the same thing to," Berg said.
Government sources said Berg gave the man his password, which was later used by Moussaoui, the sources said.
The sources said the man who used Berg's e-mail knew Moussaoui, now awaiting trial on federal charges that could bring a death sentence. But the sources would not disclose details of how the men were connected."
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/Northeast/05/13/berg.encount...

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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Thanks
It's all so ambiguous....
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9215 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-04 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
20. What about the FBI guy who died that gave Moussaoui
Edited on Sun May-16-04 12:03 AM by 9215
access to a laptop? Michael Guess "inadvertantly" gave Moussaoui access to a computer program for flying 747's. Oddly Guess ended up being the co-pilot on Wellstone's doomed flight in 2002.


<http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/JohnJudge/linkscopy... >
MINNEAPOLIS - The co-pilot who died in the crash of Sen. Paul Wellstone's plane played a minor role in the case of Zacarias Moussaoui, the alleged Sept. 11 conspirator who briefly attended an Eagan flight school.
Co-pilot Michael Guess had performed administrative work at the Pan Am International Flight Academy last year as he continued accumulating flying hours. There he met Moussaoui, the school's most infamous student.
Two former Pan Am program managers who tipped the FBI to Moussaoui's suspicious behavior at the school in August 2001 told the Star Tribune that Guess inadvertently gave Moussaoui unattended access to a computer program on flying a 747 jumbo jet.
One of the ex-managers said Guess placed a CD-ROM containing the 747 software at a work station in advance of one of Moussaoui's training sessions, before his flight instructor arrived. After Moussaoui was arrested and the FBI searched his belongings, they found the proprietary program copied on his laptop computer, the ex-manager said.
Guess was a victim of layoffs several weeks ago at the flight academy, where he had hoped to become a flight instructor.
At Executive Aviation in Eden Prairie, where Guess had been employed as a pilot since June 2001, a spokesman said colleagues remembered Guess telling them he had played a more significant role regarding the suspicions concerning Moussaoui.
Dave Mona, a spokesman for Executive Aviation, said Guess' colleagues had said that Guess had described himself as "at least a role player" in the detection of Moussaoui. Mona said Guess told his colleagues that "he and the receptionist . . . thought what (Moussaoui) was requesting was unusual" and raised the issue with others.
This then leads into the flight school chapter.

......Michael Guess listed St. Paul as his home. His funeral was at St. Lukes Church, St. Paul. I looked in the St. Paul phone directory and found only one Arthur Guess listed. The newspaper had made it sound like his family was a longtime St. Paul family. St. Paul was also Moussaouis home ... and very shortly after 9/11 either the Minneapolis or St. Paul paper did an interview with a landlady in St. Paul who had rented to a terrorist(s) who were associated with the cell in Florida. I suspect Guess knew Moussaoui......


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