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indigobusiness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:55 AM
Original message
The Sheeple Go Where The Wind Blows
Doesn't the "courage" of all the war supporters changing camps just make you sick? Where's the guts of this nation? If this weakness of character had prevailed in the beginning, this country would still be part of England.
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indigobusiness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
1. It is great that people are waking up
but swimming with the flow just ends up on the mud flats. To borrow from a Tibetan saying.
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Arianrhod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Personally, I don't believe they are waking up.
However, they are desperately trying to CYA.

At the moment, I'll take anything I can get from them.
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indigobusiness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. You might be right...maybe
just cycled out of the REM phase.
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kaitykaity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
4. Some people have to see and touch
before they will believe.

It's like they had to see the devastation, destruction,
and chaos we predicted before they would believe that
Bush's unilateral actions would cause what we predicted.

It's kind of fun being able to say "see, we told you so,"
but then again I'm with you in that it is frustrating to
know it didn't have to happen if more people had listened.

Americans get things right eventually. That's why we're
still around.
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indigobusiness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Hello, my guru...
Wise words...

but I have never really been into 'told you sos', or vengeance...and we haven't been around all that long...

but I know what you mean...point well taken.
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kaitykaity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. lol.
So, no question today? (Flicking shit is in my job
description.)

I kind of weird that I would be drawn to your
posts. I generally don't look at user ids, but more
at the ideas.

Very cool. ;)
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indigobusiness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. ...oh yeah...I forgot...
how about...."What is the meaning of strife?"
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Arianrhod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-04 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. In general, that may be true.
Although since we are a nation of "believers", who claim that faith is more "real" than science, I don't think I accept it as justification.

Americans wanted this war and occupation. They weren't "fooled" by the administration. (No, I don't believe Kerry was, either.) And as long as the consequences of the invasion didn't hit home with them, they were just fine with it. That's why * refused to give numbers, refused to allow photos of returning caskets, kept harping on how "happy" and "free" the Iraqis now are. These tactics were accepted by the public even in the face of overwhelming evidence that they were lies and deception. You knew it. I knew it. Why assume that no one else did?

We knew what we were getting into. We just didn't care.
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Cat Atomic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
6. Former war supporters do not deserve respect for seeing the light.
I agree. There's alot people that seem to think we should coddle them and embrace them and congratualte them for questioning their own beliefs.

I think that's bullshit. Our attitide should be, "it's about time you fucking woke up. Remember how wrong you were and many lives this thing has claimed next time you want to talk politics".
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indigobusiness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. you are my kind of
peacemonger.
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Arianrhod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-04 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. Mine, too.
I have always believed that we should throw the Republicans' tactics back in their faces. I don't mean lie cheat and steal; rather, I mean we shouldn't be afraid to point out their lying cheating and stealing. And when they finally are forced to back off from their immorality, they should not be patted on the back and told "There, there. It's all right now."

It's not all right.

These liars have caused untold damage to the world, and they would not even consider slowing down if events hadn't at last caught up to them. And at the first opportunity, they'll be right back at it again. Whether Kerry wins or loses in November, these guys are going to be working hard to keep their agenda going--just as they did for the last 30 years. This new contrition is nothing but a facade until proven otherwise.

Therefore, I will accept only true repentance from them. That means their behavior has to change 180 degrees. I'm not interested in more of their self-serving mealy-mouthedness.

OTOH, let us by all means use these turncoat pundits to our fullest advantage. Wave the banner of their contrition everywhere. Let the "neo"Cons know that their codependents are turning on them.

The best way to win in November is to strike fear into the heart of the Machine.
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homelandpunk Donating Member (787 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
10. My thread on this topic today said as much and some frothed at the mouth
because I called such RWer's evil fascists!!
Here is the original post to the thread:
<<I will not give fascist RWer's a pass or any thing resembling "understanding" and/or a "glad you've come around" pat on the back. That includes people I know who already "have come around"....it makes me even more disgusted by them.
Why?
Because if the Sears tower was slammed into tomorrow by a jet hijacked by "Saudi's" under OBVIOUS (even more blatant than 9/11)circumstances, they would wait for Bush & Cheney to tell them how important it is to invade Syria now because of (insert BIG OBVIOUS LIE), and they would thirstily lap up the lies, ignore the pile of bullshit, and would proudly give Bush the backing to go kill more innocent people and open the gates of hell even wider.

I don't care how many people you encounter who you know are RWer's who admit Iraq was a mistake. THAT gives us hope? It makes me even more determined to defeat these people on every front. And in the current climate there is not much hope.

They would do it again. They would ignore ignore ignore everything but Bush and his glorious lies.

I don't care if you wanna say let's USE these evil people to minimize support for Bush around election time, but I WILL NOT give them understanding or compassion for their stupidity. Their stupidity is based in evil, not on being born clinically retarded, or a brain injury they suffered recently. They were wrong because they were evil and STILL are. Their current remorse is evil. I hate their love of Bush and war and willful ignorance of atrocities by the U.S.

To sum up: they have NOT changed. Please do not show these evil morons understanding when they "admit" it was a mistake.>>

90% of the replies to the post were people telling me I was a BAD person for calling fascist's evil. Kee-riced.
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Arianrhod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-04 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. It is my observation
that most people who consider themselves Liberals tend to think that that means they must accept anything and everything that other people do, and instantly forgive them for doing it. I submit that they are mistaken, that they do not understand the full meaning of repentance. John the Baptist proclaimed that "every tree that beareth not fruit, shall be cut down. And already is the axe laid at the root." Jesus called false teachers "hypocrites" and "vipers", "fools" and listeners to "lying spirits". Harsh stuff. But that's because his goal was a genuine change of heart. Such changes don't come about by coddling ourselves.

I welcome any Republican who has such a genuine change. But if that really is the case, then his/her behavior is going to demonstrate it. Words mean nothing to me--particularly words that flow from professional liars. Let's see them start working for good in the world. Then and only then will I open my arms to them.
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