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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 09:45 AM
Original message
(Is this a Red Alert post?) Bush authorized torture in August
By Andy Byrnes - Editor of:
The Adirondack Mountain Sun
Lowville, N.Y. 13367
315-376-4295
mtsun@northnet.org

Editor's Note: The story below is copyrighted property of The Adirondack Mountain Sun Newspaper in Lowville NY. We have published it here with permission of the author.

It's funny how things happen. I'm the last guy on earth you would expect to have anything like a CIA contact. Well, maybe not the last guy on earth, but almost certainly the last newspaper editor on earth. You know and I know that the vast majority of my editorial work is confined to the boundaries of Lewis County and limited to the 3,000 or so newspapers we sell every week.

I'm out of my depth, really, but what do I do now? The phone rings the other day and a voice I recognize very well on the other end of the line says, "George W. Bush re-signed what they call in this town (Washington DC) an executive finding essentially authorizing the use of torture by employees of the United States of .America -including the military - last August."

Last August.

"Take it to the bank," says the voice. "We may actually have a law that says we can torture people and perhaps kill them." I know this person; I have reason to trust his word. I will take what he says to the bank. I know, I know. It's crazy to think that the Adirondack Mountain Sun might have someone with serious CIA ties going TOY(temporary duty) to a small town on the edge of the Adirondack Park to break what might be one of the biggest - certainly one of the saddest - items of news we have heard in an extraordinarily sad year.

But, hey, that's the position I find myself in. I can't tell you anything regarding this person's identity, but I can tell you what I was told. If the information is accurate - and again, I have every reason to believe it is - our President could not possibly have been taken by surprise - as he claims he was - by the now famous photos released last week depicting abhorrent and perverse treatment of Iraqis at the hands of American soldiers.

This "executive finding" in question apparently authorizes "harsh treatment" for "high value" prisoners. It was - again I am trusting my source -apparently presented to the President by the director of the CIA, George Tenet.

...more...

http://world-peace.us/andy_byrnes.htm
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
1. It definitely sounds like a "Red Alert", for sure....
...especially when the NeoCons have worked so hard to deny that torture was authorized at all.

That could spell BIG trouble for Junior and his merry band of NeoCons.

I hope this gets picked up every major media outlet...domestic as well as international.
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Yes and no...
- We have to keep in mind that Bush* was literally allowed to lie this nation into an unprovoked, aggressive war without suffering ANY repercussions. If he can get away with THAT...why wouldn't he be able to do it again by finding a scapegoat or plausible deniability?

- Bush* will not be held accountable. Recent history tells us so.
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onecitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #4
52. Apparently, they already have........
found their scapegoat. Isn't the GI who goes on trial Thursday supposed to say it was all the privates who were responsible and that none of the "higher ups" knew anything about it?

There is no doubt in my mind that bush knew what was going on over there. I remember when he first took office in 2001 the crime in America seemed to just explode for some reason. Odd things like all the vigilante stuff that was happening. We were surmising at that time that it was the change in leadership (from Clinton to bush) that was responsible. Then, look at all the people he executed while Gov. of Texas. This man lusts for blood and violence.
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Bertha Venation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
2. I wouldn't be surprised. However, I hope there are other sources, because
Call me nitpicky, but "temporary duty" is "TDY" -- not "TOY." Perhaps it's a typo, but it's things like this that make me doubt single sources.
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DUreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #2
20. Bush Has Widened Authority of CIA to Kill Terrorists/Senators Support CIA
I used "presidential finding" because exec. seems to be a broad term
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=... ...
Bush Has Widened Authority of CIA to Kill Terrorists
... legitimate targets for lethal force. Mr. Bush issued a presidential
finding last year, after the Sept. 11 attacks on New York and ...
www.unansweredquestions.org/timeline/ 2002/nyt121502.html - 11k - Cached - Similarpages
Senators Support CIA Anti - Terror Effort
... A US official declined to confirm or deny the presidential finding, calling any such
action highly sensitive, with potential operational risks in any disclosure ...
foi.missouri.edu/terrorintelligence/ senatorssupport.html - 7k - Cached - Similarpages
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. I found this on findlaw...
Edited on Sat May-15-04 10:49 AM by Spazito
Section 2414. Presidential findings and determinations

(a) Report to Congress
In any case in which the President is required to make a report
to the Congress, or to any committee or officer of either House of
Congress, concerning any finding or determination under any
provision of this chapter, the Foreign Military Sales Act (22
U.S.C. 2751 et seq.), or the Foreign Assistance and Related
Programs Appropriation Act for each fiscal year, that finding or
determination shall be reduced to writing and signed by the
President.
(b) Action prohibition prior to execution of report
No action shall be taken pursuant to any such finding or
determination prior to the date on which that finding or
determination has been reduced to writing and signed by the
President.
(c) Publication in Federal Register
Each such finding or determination shall be published in the
Federal Register as soon as practicable after it has been reduced
to writing and signed by the President. In any case in which the
President concludes that such publication would be harmful to the
national security of the United States, only a statement that a
determination or finding has been made by the President, including
the name and section of the Act under which it was made, shall be
published.
(d) Information accessible to Congress prior to transmission of
report
No committee or officer of either House of Congress shall be
denied any requested information relating to any finding or
determination which the President is required to report to the
Congress, or to any committee or officer of either House of
Congress, under any provision of this chapter, the Foreign Military
Sales Act (22 U.S.C. 2751 et seq.), or the Foreign Assistance and
Related Programs Appropriation Act for each fiscal year, even
though such report has not yet been transmitted to the appropriate
committee or officer of either House of Congress.



http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/casecode/uscodes/22/chapt...


Edited to add this:

Allen Thomson asked:

"Are there any of your listed papers in the library that might
illuminate interesting intelligence matters if successfully FOIAed? How
Presidental
Findings relating to CIA and other actions got approved in the Reagan years
certainly seems to qualify -- which papers would you suggest be requested?"

I don't think so. The interagency process for approving Presidential
Findings during the Reagan years was substantially the same as the process
during the Carter years. Findings, whatever the provenance, were subjected
to coordination and approval from the usual members of the National Security
Council: State, Defense,the Joint Chiefs, Department of Justice and CIA.
They were vetted at the Undersecretary level before being approved at the
Secretary level and finally by the President presiding at a full NSC
meeting. They were always reviewed by the Department of Justice for
compliance with law before they went forward. While I didn't serve during
Carter's presidency, I understand that this process originated with Jimmy
Carter following the Congressionally mandated requirement that a President
formally sign a Finding providing for Covert Action, as defined under the
National Security Act as ammended. This process continued under the first
Bush administration and into the Clinton years, with only minor procedural
changes, I believe.

Vince Cannistraro



Intelligence Forum (http://www.intelforum.org ) is sponsored by Intelligence
and National Security, a Frank Cass journal (http://www.frankcass.com/jnls/ins.htm )



http://listarchives.his.com/intelforum/intelforum.0107/...
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DUreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. I have this nagging vague hint of a memory-PATRIOT Allows Secret Findings?
Maybe it was the HomelandSecurity Act/Dept. Creation?

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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #23
27. When I entered "presidential findings" in Ask Jeeves...
there are pages and pages re presidential findings, very interesting.
Here is the link:

http://web.ask.com/web?q=presidential+findings&o=0&qsrc...

I don't think this is a creation of Homeland Security specifically because the bush admin started immediately after the selection to "indemnify" the US against war crimes, etc. In my honest opinion, re PNAC, there was a list of things to do when they got into power in order to enact their "world power" view" and this was just one of the things on their "to do" list.
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ewagner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
3. And now,
the awful burder of proof rests on the shoulders of this small town editor.
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lovedems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
5. This sends a chill down my spine.
If this is true, I am scared. :scared:

Approved torture and murder. It doesn't represent America but it very well could represent this administration.
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Desertrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. pretty obvious it represents this maladministration...
thats been clear since day 1.

Approved murder & torture...actually probably started loooong before this with *.

Peace
DR
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Nlighten1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
6. If this is true...Bush is toast.
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demlandslide2004 Donating Member (39 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #6
15. Bush is toast
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smirkymonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #15
45. Wahaaaahhhhh! You just
Edited on Sat May-15-04 04:03 PM by smirkymonkey
spoiled my favorite food for me! Now I won't be able to eat it w/ out seeing monkeyboy's ugly face! :evilgrin:

Actually, I'm off the wheat products for now anyway. Nice job with the toast face, though. Let's hope it sticks!

Welcome to DU :hi:
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RC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #6
30. BS. They have cut the power cord off the toaster.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
8. Are "executive findings" accessible to the public?
Is there a way to find out if it exists and, if so, what the details are? Is an "executive finding" the same as an executive order?
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DUreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. I believe they are not as public as EOs
maybe not at all public
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Thanks for the info...
I suspect if this "executive finding" exists, I believe it does, then it will be classified as a "national security" document and hidden amongst all the other so-called "national security" stuff.
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DUreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. I don't have time right now but here is a google search
I used "presidential finding" because exec. seems to be a broad term

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=...


Bush Has Widened Authority of CIA to Kill Terrorists
... legitimate targets for lethal force. Mr. Bush issued a presidential
finding last year, after the Sept. 11 attacks on New York and ...
www.unansweredquestions.org/timeline/ 2002/nyt121502.html - 11k - Cached - Similarpages

Senators Support CIA Anti - Terror Effort
... A US official declined to confirm or deny the presidential finding, calling any such
action highly sensitive, with potential operational risks in any disclosure ...
foi.missouri.edu/terrorintelligence/ senatorssupport.html - 7k - Cached - Similarpages
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. Thanks for this!
*
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supernova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
9. Wow! Red Alert!
Edited on Sat May-15-04 10:06 AM by supernova
I'd like to know more about his source. No, not name, rank and serial number. I'd like to know more about how his friend came to have such info in the first place. He seems highly placed if he knew what the Pres and George Tenent were doing.

We need congressional hearings about it.


edit: You know what this sounds like? That they were so confident/worried, confidently worried, worriedly confident?, to find WMDs evidence they used the any means necessary criteria.

There ought to be a billion dollar bounty on that "Executive Findings" paper that * signed.
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Athame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #9
32. Could this be part of the CIA revenge? n/t
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
10. thanky-will pass it along--send this to Pallast, somebody! n/t
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DUreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
11. We know he authorized killings and did not exclude US citizens
that has not been a secret
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
12. Andy, stay out of that kyyak...and small planes are probably...
a bad idea too...
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
16. Last August was the same time Pentagon was screening Battle of Algiers
a movie which shows imperialists breaking the will of Algerians with torture in order to win a battle, but lose the war against an independence movement in their own country.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/world_press/2003/11/04/hel...
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TacticalPeek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #16
28. Last August was a busy time in the world of presidential findings.
http://www.washtimes.com/national/20030813-120409-8659r...

Also, findings must be reported to Congress. Not 'approved by', just reported. I believe notice goes to the Joint Select Committee on Intelligence. Or maybe just the Senate committee? The members can at minimum lose their committee seat if they are caught revealing findings.

Anyway, there was great fun to be had during Iran/Contra from watching poor Raygun and his minions trying to plaster over their debacle with findings and even, IIRC, 'retroactive findings'. Ronnie had great difficulty remembering what and when he had authorized, to the point that his handlers would have to immediately correct his press conferences lies, right on the spot at the press conference as Raygun shuffled off in the background.

Although revealing this finding would cause some damage to Shrub, it may not be a significant blow. First, his base would not care one whit, rather they would cheer it on. And second, aWol would weasel out by claiming the finding was directed only at "high-value" individuals, not prisoners in general. Of course, I would love for it to come out, if only to enjoy watching their fire brigade running around throwing buckets of water on it. You never know when they may throw a bucket of gasoline by mistake.

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Tandalayo_Scheisskopf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
17. Hmmm...
This sounds like a job for...

DADCOM!
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
22. While we are on the subject of torture and murder being sanctioned
by the administration of George W. Bush aka The War President, as an American citizen targeted by the illegal Operation CHAOS in 1969 authorized by President Richard M. Nixon as part of the Huston Plan I would like some justice to come to a murderer, torturer, slaver and sadistic ritual rapist and his crew that is well known to law enforcement authorities that have had prosecution and cases of horrific criminal conspiracies shut down by National Security (for instance, 2 federal grand juries in Milwaukee in 1970, involving a victim/witness that passed a lie detector test re murder and yet this "national security" asset walked).

There is no statute of limitations for murder in the USA, I am willing to go public on this as an American citizen that was victimized by PSYOPS during the illegal domestic program Operation CHAOS that was authorized to use all the resources of the US government to supress political dissent.

YOU CAN TAKE MY STATEMENT TO THE BANK, TOO. IT IS MKULTRA RELATED.

NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.
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donsu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
24. kick
nt
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VelmaD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
25. Maybe we should take up a collection...
and hire this guy some protection.

When did I fall asleep and wake up in Bizarro World? This is NOT my country. *sigh*
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
26. If this is true ?????
It is earthshaking! WOW!
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
29. Kick
*
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
31. Georgie Boys

I would not put anything pass GeorgieT. I have said that all along.
Because he smiles nicely and has been liked by members of both parties,some think he is OK. Not me. Anybody that has a mutual admiration society with GWB has got to be a crook! What nice
person does GeorgieB get along with ? NOT ONE!!

Yet, he sings the praises of Tenet.They are buddies,pals.

" High Value" Prisoner to you or to me would mean OBL. "High value" prisoner to GWB could mean anyone with Brown skin or anyone with a Muslim sounding last name.

Well, there is one exception-- if your name was BL and it was right after 911-- you could get on a jet and leave the USA. You would not have been considered a "high value" prisoner.

I hope like hell this leads to Bush, his Daddy and his Mama too!!
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
33. Will Pitt, is there some way you can follow up on this ?
You have some "contacts" in your work, your books, etc. Is it possible for you to talk with guy and see if this is really true? If so, this is big!
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davsand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
34. The human rights abuse license goes further back than this.
On May 22, 2003, Bush signed Executive Order 13303 which claims to be essential to Iraqi reconstruction efforts. It essentially, gives impunity for any activities undertaken relating to Iraqi oil.

http://www.earthrights.org/news/eo13303.shtml

Under this Order, an oil company complicit in human rights violations, or one that causes environmental damage, would be immune from lawsuits. The language of the Executive Order is so broad that it might as well have been written by lawyers for Halliburton, ExxonMobil and ChevronTexaco.

In 13303, President Bush declares a national emergency as the basis for protecting the Development Fund for Iraq (an entity intended to fund reconstruction efforts with oil proceeds, overseen by an international board including World Bank officials) as well as all Iraqi petroleum, petroleum products, interests, proceeds, and contracts related to Iraqi petroleum. Claiming that interference with Iraqi petroleum, petroleum products, and interests therein jeopardizes reconstruction efforts in Iraq, EO 13303 offers a wide range of protections to certain persons, entities and assets associated with the Iraqi oil industry. The document is apparently intended as a sweeping grant of immunity to individuals, corporations, agencies and others involved in Iraqi oil sales, marketing, or other oil-related activities.

The Order provides protection at both the front endthe activities that generate the oilas well as the backthe profits and proceeds that ensue. U.S. companies engaged in petroleum-related work in Iraq are purportedly given broad immunity from suits for environmental damage, workplace harms, contractual disputes, and numerous other wrongs. For example, a U.S. oil company benefiting from human rights abuses, no matter how egregious, apparently falls within the Orders immunity from suit. Similarly, the Order purports to protect any assets derived from Iraqi oil from judgment, garnishment, or any other seizure in U.S. courts. For example, if a corporate entity or an individual engages in criminal activity in the U.S., its assets traceable to Iraqi oil are protected by this order. The list of situations in which a person or corporation could get away with, if not murder, then at least millions, is endless.

The title of the EO, Protecting the Development Fund for Iraq and Certain Other Property in Which Iraq Has an Interest, is a sham. This EO may be about Iraq, but its also about the oil industry exclusively. (Remember the Administration has claimed that the Iraq war had nothing to do with oil?) There is nothing at all about protecting humanitarian organizations, communications, computer or electrical companies, or other industries that are critical to Iraqs reconstruction.


This article Will is citing HAS support in the form of official documents, I'd say...

Laura
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farmbo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
35. This would explain why they circled the wagons around Rummy...
Instead of scapegoating and jettisoning him, which he richly deserved.
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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
36. Bush was only surprised...
that he had to wait this long to salaciously view the "sexy" pictures. :puke: He was probably hoping to send his poppy some Pu$$y pictures.
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doni_georgia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
37. News Articles - do these back this up? Secreat Presidential Finding
There is a secret Presidential Finding allowing for terror suspects to be deported to another country for torture. It is mentioned in these stories:

ABC News "Torture for Terrorists"
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/GMA/World/GMA030304Tortu...

Washington POst "US Decries Abuse but Defends Interrogations"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A37943-2002Dec...

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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. Very interesting links !
<snip>

"After years of fruitless talks in Egypt, President Bill Clinton cut off funding and cooperation with the directorate of Egypt's general intelligence service, whose torture of suspects has been a perennial theme in State Department human rights reports.

"You can be sure," one Bush administration official said, "that we are not spending a lot of time on that now."

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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-17-04 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #37
57. I certainly think so. Thanks :-)
I remember that the CIA snatched Khalid Shaikh Mohammed's young children to force him to talk. I had a difference of opinion with a friend of mine, who is a West Point graduate and career army, on whether this was acceptable. Now we learn that the methods being used on just ordinary detainees are unspeakably worse.
:scared:
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ramblin_dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
39. Report: Rumsfeld Approved Iraq Interrogation Plan
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&s... ion=news

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld approved a plan that brought unconventional interrogation methods to Iraq to gain intelligence about the growing insurgency, ultimately leading to the abuse of Iraqi prisoners, the New Yorker magazine reported on Saturday.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. ramblin_dave, I think this deserves its own thread....
This sounds like very important news to me... What do you think?
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. Here is an article that may have the Aug date tie-in...
Edited on Sat May-15-04 04:05 PM by Spazito
From Sy Hersh's latest article:

http://newyorker.com/fact/content/?040524fa_fact



snip

In their testimony before Congress last week, Rumsfeld and Cambone struggled to convince the legislators that Millers visit to Baghdad IN LATE AUGUST had nothing to do with the subsequent abuse. Cambone sought to assure the Senate Armed Services Committee that the interplay between Miller and Lieutenant General Ricardo Sanchez, the top U.S. commander in Iraq, had only a casual connection to his office. Millers recommendations, Cambone said, were made to Sanchez. His own role, he said, was mainly to insure that the flow of intelligence back to the commands was efficient and effective. He added that Millers goal was to provide a safe, secure and humane environment that supports the expeditious collection of intelligence.

(capital letters were added by me for emphasis)







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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-17-04 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #43
56. Will Pitt also posted this article on its own thread
It was also the headline on Buzzflash for two days. But the Adirondack Mountain Sun article, posted here, indicates that the approval of the use of torture and humiliation at Abu Ghraib prison went all the way to the top. Let's just hope it goes national.

This is good news for Rummy. He can no longer be made the scapegoat to save Bush*s election chances.
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PretzelWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
41. Face it republican faithful....your prez is a criminal. IMPEACH HIM
now! THanks will
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #41
47. Yes, Republican lurkers. Stop dragging your feet and start
impeachment proceedings now. This needs investigating and the truth needs to see the light of day.
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Wapsie B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
44. This should be a triple red alert.
If there's any credence to what this guy is saying, removal from office is the least of chimpy's problems. Maybe like a trial at the Hague?
This editor needs to stay away from small planes and motel rooms for quite awhile.
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DUreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. Is he really saying anything not already reported?
If you read this thread , this stuff has mostly been reported .

Sad how it has generally been ignored be most media
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. I have been thinking about this and I think the Aug date is the key...
Edited on Sat May-15-04 04:33 PM by Spazito
that Bush signed an "executive finding" which may or not be a "presidential finding" in August that took the previous "presidential findings" on treatment of prisoners further than it had been allowed before.

I am wondering this: Was the August document specific to the Iraqi prisoners, spelling out the kinds of treatment that can be used against Iraqis that shows definitive approval of torture that is in contravention of the Geneva Conventions? It was in August that Miller went to Iraq and recommended "Gitmoizing" the prison. I took this from the Sy Hersh article:

"Cambone sought to assure the Senate Armed Services Committee that the interplay between Miller and Lieutenant General Ricardo Sanchez, the top U.S. commander in Iraq, had only a casual connection to his office."

At this point, everything is working towards Rumsfeld, a document signed by the Pres in August re torture would have the same impact as the Nixon tapes, imo.

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chelaque liberal Donating Member (981 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
49. Bush OK's Summary Executions Of Some Designated As Terrorists
A little item I saved at the time. he lst paragraph is interesting. Unfortunately it didn't generate a firestorm of protest at the time.

Bush OK's Summary Executions Of Some Designated As Terrorists
8-12-2002

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - In a surprise move sure to raise outcries from foreign governments, civil liberties groups and others, The White House today announced with little fanfare that effective immediately, certain individuals whom President Bush or other high-level Administration members have designated as terrorists are subject to summary execution by either Homeland Security operatives, U.S. intelligence operatives, and in some cases by U.S. military personnel.

The presidential directive applies to both U.S. and foreign citizens, both within and outside the United States territory.

The White House gave notice of the new policy in as quiet a way as possible, making the announcementlate Sunday evening from Crawford, Texas. The unprecedented move is thought certain to generate a firestorm of protest from numerous quarters.

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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
50. Here is another article with some interesting dates...
snip

But three directives in particular have already begun to attract congressional scrutiny: The first is a classified report by Army Maj. Gen. Geoffrey Miller on Sept. 9, 2003, demanding that the military police at Abu Ghraib be dedicated and trained to set "the conditions for the successful interrogation and exploitation of internees/detainees." The report, which Cambone has testified was presented to his deputy William Boykin, contains five recommendations spelling out how this was to occur and reported it had already begun.

The second is an Oct. 12 classified memo signed by Sanchez that demanded a "harmonization" of military policing and intelligence work at Abu Ghraib for the purpose of ensuring "consistency with the interrogation policies . . . and maximiz the efficiency of the interrogation."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A29988-20...

Looking at the dates:

from the initial post, the month of August is said to be when the President signed off on the "executive finding",

then Gen. Miller, in a classified report, on September 9, demanded "that the military police at Abu Ghraib be dedicated and trained to set "the conditions for the successful interrogation and exploitation of internees/detainees."

On Oct. 12 a classified memo signed by Sanchez that "demanded a "harmonization" of military policing and intelligence work at Abu Ghraib for the purpose of ensuring "consistency with the interrogation policies . . . and maximiz the efficiency of the interrogation."

This says to me that bush signed off on the approval then the wheels were set in motion to enact what was in the "executive finding".

Does this look plausible?
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
51. This is Far worse than "Double Secret Probation" by Wermer
in AH.

Bush is Toast if this is true and it sure looks it.
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
53. Bu$h is so FOS: Quote from U.N. Torture Victims Recognition Day
"The U.S. is committed to the worldwide elimination of torture and we are leading this fight by example. I call on all governments to join with the U.S. and the community of law abiding nations in prohibiting, investigating and prosecuting all acts of torture."

George W. Bush, U.N. Torture Victims Recognition Day, June 26, 2003


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bobbieinok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-04 12:47 AM
Response to Original message
54. and now there's Hersh's article in the New Yorker that says the same
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-04 06:44 AM
Response to Original message
55. kick
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-17-04 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
58. I definitely think so
And it sounds legitimate to me. Let's just hope that it goes national. :kick:

This is good news for Rummy as he can no longer be used as a scapegoat. This asserts that the approval of torture and abuse went all the way to the top. This proves that Bush* lied when he said he was shocked at the pictures coming out of the prison. On the other hand, maybe he was just shocked to learn that there were pictures. :shrug:

The fact that this appeared in a small-town weekly paper is pretty amazing. I am very familiar with Lowville, as my ex-boyfriend was from there, so I visited there many times. It's in Western New York and is one of those towns that is so small that if you blink while driving through it, you'll miss it. And there are actually more cows than people in Lewis County, LOL! :D
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-17-04 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
59. Here is a VERY interesting section of the US Code...
Section 413b. Presidential approval and reporting of covert actions

If there is a covert unit, as Sy Hersh has reported, bush would have had to sign off on it, from what I can read here. I stand to be corrected for sure but here it is for interest at the very least:

(a) Presidential findings
The President may not authorize the conduct of a covert action by
departments, agencies, or entities of the United States Government
unless the President determines such an action is necessary to
support identifiable foreign policy objectives of the United States
and is important to the national security of the United States,
which determination shall be set forth in a finding that shall meet
each of the following conditions:
(1) Each finding shall be in writing, unless immediate action
by the United States is required and time does not permit the
preparation of a written finding, in which case a written record
of the President's decision shall be contemporaneously made and
shall be reduced to a written finding as soon as possible but in
no event more than 48 hours after the decision is made.
(2) Except as permitted by paragraph (1), a finding may not
authorize or sanction a covert action, or any aspect of any such
action, which already has occurred.
(3) Each finding shall specify each department, agency, or
entity of the United States Government authorized to fund or
otherwise participate in any significant way in such action. Any
employee, contractor, or contract agent of a department, agency,
or entity of the United States Government other than the Central
Intelligence Agency directed to participate in any way in a
covert action shall be subject either to the policies and
regulations of the Central Intelligence Agency, or to written
policies or regulations adopted by such department, agency, or
entity, to govern such participation.
(4) Each finding shall specify whether it is contemplated that
any third party which is not an element of, or a contractor or
contract agent of, the United States Government, or is not
otherwise subject to United States Government policies and
regulations, will be used to fund or otherwise participate in any
significant way in the covert action concerned, or be used to
undertake the covert action concerned on behalf of the United
States.
(5) A finding may not authorize any action that would violate
the Constitution or any statute of the United States.


(lots more)

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/casecode/uscodes/50/chapt...
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AgadorSparticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-17-04 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
60. when it rains, it pours....i won't be satisfied until that * bastard is
impeached and his cronies in jail.

:kick:
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