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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 08:27 AM
Original message
Berg's e-mail account was being used by Zacarias Moussaoui
I'll say it again....Berg's e-mail account was being used by Zacarias Moussaoui!

Now, we've speculated about the White Chair, Orange Jumpsuit, etc... forget all that. Too me, this is the biggest red flag to this whole Nick Berg story. This is the one item that cast great suspicion about Nick Berg and what he was doing in Iraq. I simply cannot buy the explanation given by his family and Ashcroft of how Berg's email account ended up being used by Moussaoui.

OK..let's say for a moment that Berg was just being a nice guy and let a total stranger have his password to his private email account..implausible but possible... Now jump ahead and the same nice guy Berg ends up in Iraq and is killed by the same dudes that are associated with Moussaoui... :wtf:

The explanations given by his family on how he gave up his password seem contrived as hell... I'm sure that Nick told them this is how it happened but I think it's bullshit. He was on a bus, folks sat next to him and asked if they could use his computer, he says sure and offers up his password? Would you do that to a total stranger? Hell no!

Here's a snip from todays CNN: <snip>Berg's father said his son gave a man on a bus the password to his account because "Whoever was next to my son was treated with great respect and friendship." <end snip>

Again :wtf: One more thing that troubles me ....

Another snip from todays CNN piece: >snip>Ashcroft also said FBI agents and officials with the Coalition Provisional Authority "emphasized to him the dangerous environment that existed at the time in Iraq. And they encouraged him to accept the CPA's offer to arrange his safe passage out of Iraq."

Berg also turned down offers to advise his family of his status, Ashcroft said.<end snip>
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/14/iraq.berg/ind...

Now why would he turn down the offer to let his family know he was OK? You're family is back home worried sick about you and you don't want them to know that you're OK... Folks... this stinks like hell and there are many people out there associated with this story who are not telling the whole truth. MHOP
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BlueEyedSon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
1. The whole thing is fishy, and we are not getting the truth about any of it
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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Here's another thing...
If Moussaoui was using the Nicks account wouldn't Nick have been able to read what Moussaoui was emailing?
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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Please don't stop thinking and questioning and digging.
This one may be tough to unravel. And I have been amazed at the vitiolic opposition on this board to investigating the obvious lies and and inconsistencies.

Please, please don't stop trying to put together the pieces.
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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #3
12. I won't
Thanks
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BlueEyedSon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Not necessarily, but definitely the replies (if any)
This may be a red herring too. What the heck is wrong with Hotmail and Yahoo?
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 08:50 AM
Response to Original message
5. Yes it's all too bizarre. Too many strange coincidences. How do we know
for a fact that giving the e-mail address to Moussaoui is even true?
And, should we believe CNN's report given how they are tools of the Bush lies.

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dmr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #5
22. This was my thought too KoKo
My first impression was they were going to start a smear campaign because his family was not buying into and not going along with the Bushco* versions of events.

I have plenty of questions surrounding Berg's murder, and this is just one of them.
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
6. "Al Qaeda didn't know what they were doing.They killed their best friend."
Michael Berg's words. Though some quotes substitute "they" for "al Qaeda."

And now we know the FBI suspect Nick of links to Al Qaeda several years ago, and Moussaoui had his email password.

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BlueEyedSon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #6
35. You have a link for that ridiculous quote?
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amazona Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #35
42. sure try CNN here's a link
Michael Berg's statement was widely reported everywhere but here's the link from CNN:

http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0405/13/lt.02.html

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darkstar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #35
43. Here's a thread from yesterday
Edited on Sat May-15-04 04:05 PM by darkstar
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mopaul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
7. you think too much, that's unamerican.
why would our leaders lie to us about anything?

i've made up my mind on the beheading story, and the conclusion i've come to as an expert and a glorious genius like yourself is that this whole thing stinks.

when it comes to bushco, the official story is always a lie.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
8. His father was anti-war, but Nick was a Bush supporter
That was the first tragedy in that family - all the rest stems from it.
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BlueEyedSon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #8
33. Why would a Bush supporter be in league with al Qaeda (Moussaoui)?
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lostnfound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #33
47. Maybe he wasn't a real Bush supporter...?
I've wondered if that was a cover..

Okay, I know I fell down the rabbit hole, but.. maybe he wasn't who he said he was, politically speaking.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
9. Nothing, and I mean nothing, in this whole tragedy lines up...
There is nothing BUT anomalies, strange "coincidences", conflicting statements by US admin spokespersons. All I know is someone identified as Nick Berg, by whom and how I am not sure, has died. Beyond that, nothing makes any sense at all.
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JanMichael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
10. Could it be that he was playing double agent? That he was trying to...
...infiltrate the "terrorists"? That the FBI caught him, but instead of figuring out that he was trying to catch "terrorists", they thought he WAS a "terrorist"?

Then he gets ID'd in Iraq, sits in a cell with detainees for a while, tries to get "Info" from his fake "Fellow Travelers", they get pissed and kill him for spying on them?
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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Anythings possible Jan
but way toooo small world for me to think it's all a coincidence.
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Must_B_Free Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. How many 26 year old college drop outs d0o you know
that travel to Africa and then to Iraq?

This guy could easily have been some type of spy with a front business...

I just don't know any 26 year olds who are that well connected to have their own business and travel the world.

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Nay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
13. The whole Berg thing REEKS -- who the heck was this poor guy?
I cannot buy for a minute that anyone would let a total stranger on a bus use his email and private password, unless Berg changed the password RIGHT AFTER letting the stranger use his account. Was his password changed around the time he said he let a stranger use his account and password? If not, then he knew the 'stranger on a bus' and there is much, much more to this story.

Never mind all the other inconsistencies and weirdnesses about this whole episode.
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Must_B_Free Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. You would never give some a password if they were sitting next to you
you would simply type it in for them so that they didn't have to have it.

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Nay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. Yes, that is another good way to keep your password from a
stranger, but the reports say that Moussaoui HAD BERG'S PASSWORD and account in his papers somewhere, so he had been given the password or stolen it somehow. That's why the FBI questioned Berg 3 times. So weird.
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Must_B_Free Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. If you were the FBI, what kind of questions would you be asking?
What would you be suspecting this person of and what would you do to find out things from him?

THe natural suspicion is that he is with the terrorists. You'd want to make sure he's not another Tim Mcveigh or John Mohammad (weas that the American Taliban they had in the blindfolded and duct taped to that stretcher?
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freeforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Right. And out of all possible "strangers"
Edited on Sat May-15-04 12:17 PM by freeforall
that it was Moussaoui who asked for the password?

Gimme a break! Something is definitely not right here.


There are no "coincidences."
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #17
38. It WASN'T Moussaoui
I'm getting sick of this.

According to Berg's father, whom I saw on TV in a brief clip, Nick made friends with people from all sorts of backgrounds. He said that an acquaintance (Arab) asked if he could use his email account. Berg said yes. The password later ended up in Moussaoui's hands, AS DID SEVERAL OTHERS. IOW, this was a scam they were doing.

I can't imagine the FBI wouldn't have detained him right then and there, when they questioned him about this sometime back IF his story didn't pan out.

I don't believe he was any kind of spy or aligned in any way with the terrorists. He'd be in Gitmo if that were the case -- enemy combatant and we'd never hear his name let alone any of these details. If his small "comapny" was a front, he still definitely did that kind of work because there are published quotes from people who had worked with him, hired him for his radio tower services.

I DO believe that the FBI was eager to release this little tidbit to make his detention in Iraq and his subsequent murder (at whoever's hands) seem more his fault than their fault.

How else would we have found out about this tidbit of info if the FBI hadn't leaked it? I doubt his parents brought it up to reporters -- they've been a little busy (not to mention grief-stricken). It's possible one of his friends did, but the FBI would be denying it, I would think, in that case. To my knowledge they've been officially mum on the subject.

AFAIC, most of the time being spent on suspicions about Berg is time and energy NOT being spent where it should be.

I could be wrong about Berg, but I don't think I am.

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qanda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #38
46. All I have to say is that he had to be the most unlucky person
In the entire world. So many coincidences for one short life.

I mean he just so happens to come in contact with terrorists and be kind enough to share his email account with them. And not just any terrorists but ones that will commit the most horrific act of all time on America.

Then he gets nabbed in Iraq looking like an Arab, donned with a Koran and anti-semetic material, and has an Israeli stamp in an American passport with a Jewish name (I never knew Berg was a Jewish name). He's held for two weeks under the control of only God knows who and then he's let go just in time to be kidnapped by the same group of terrorists with whom he so kindly shared his email account (that should have counted for something).

Then to top it all off, he's the first and only American to be killed while in captivity since the Iraq war began. If that isn't enough, the rationale used for killing him is the abuse of prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison, a place that Nick would have known well because he had been working in the same area on communication towers.

Of course, this doesn't address the white chair, the yellow walls, the orange jumpsuit and the new socks that the terrorists provided for Nick *after* he was murdered.
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
15. Lets List the Possible Explanations
1. Pure conincidence
2. He was involved w/ AQ somehow
3. He was involved w/ US Intel
4. He was some sort of patsy
5. Some combination of the above
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keep_left Donating Member (158 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #15
36. #3 is the most plausible, I think.
His electronics expertise (he was an antenna/communications specialist) could have been easily turned into an intelligence front, just like all the other CIA-type front companies. He could have even been doing legitimate business; some of those front companies did (aviation, etc.). He could have been an infiltrator who got found out by AQ.

It's interesting to note that his family seems to have no knowledge of any of this stuff, but if he were sufficiently deep cover, they wouldn't be permitted to know.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #36
41. what do you mean his family has no knowledge of any of this?
That's patently false. His father was the "business manager" for his business. They spoke to him daily, except when he was in detention and after he'd gone missing. I saw his father explain to a reporter in a TV clip about the Moussaoui thing.

Just what is it that his family has no knowledge of?

Ridiculous.
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keep_left Donating Member (158 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #41
45. Well of course his family knew about his business dealings.
I've read the same things. And the Moussaoui connection could just be a bizarre coincidence (though it feels a bit too contrived to be one).

His family, at least from the press I've read, has not suggested that he had any intelligence connections. And in fact if he was working in intelligence, or for intelligence officers, he likely would not be able to divulge that to family anyway. That's all I was saying. And I still think #3 is the most plausible option.
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #15
49. Perhaps it is none of the above
Maybe he was mugged and then murdered or some other reason by criminal Iraqis.

His body was identified & found to an American. Then the stagging took place to draw heat off the Abu Ghraib story and the second wave of photos?

Would it be any worse than exposing Joe Wilson's wife? Or junior lying to the nation and the world about "Yellow Cake" from Niger. I think not!
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Kazak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
18. I have wondered...
if Berg was in possession of sensitive information (about 911?) that the govt didn't want getting out. Two birds, one stone. :scared:
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Must_B_Free Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:24 PM
Original message
Given the timing of the torture scandal
was Berg himself "softened up" each time before the FBI questioned him. It seems like it would have been standard practice.

If he were - then BushCO was looking at an American coming home just after this scandal started with a story to tell.

What evidence would we have to believe that he WASN'T tortured?
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
19. Moussaoui stole WELLSTONE CO-PILOT'S CD-Rom, too.
Co-pilot played minor role in story of Moussaoui

Associated Press, 26 October 2002


MINNEAPOLIS - The co-pilot who died in the crash of Sen. Paul Wellstone's plane played a minor role in the case of Zacarias Moussaoui, the alleged Sept. 11 conspirator who briefly attended an Eagan flight school.

Co-pilot Michael Guess had performed administrative work at the Pan Am International Flight Academy last year as he continued accumulating flying hours. There he met Moussaoui, the school's most infamous student.

Two former Pan Am program managers who tipped the FBI to Moussaoui's suspicious behavior at the school in August 2001 told the Star Tribune that Guess inadvertently gave Moussaoui unattended access to a computer program on flying a 747 jumbo jet.

One of the ex-managers said Guess placed a CD-ROM containing the 747 software at a work station in advance of one of Moussaoui's training sessions, before his flight instructor arrived. After Moussaoui was arrested and the FBI searched his belongings, they found the proprietary program copied on his laptop computer, the ex-manager said.

CONTINUED...

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/JohnJudge/linkscopy...
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Mayberry Machiavelli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
21. If this story appeared "conventional" then I would be somewhat
reluctant to give credence to any conspiracy theory. (I.E. Berg was contract engineer/truck driver working for Halliburton, had never been investigated by US gov't or held by US Gov't in Iraq, then captured/killed)

But it's not like you have to look hard for total fishiness. It is RUBBED IN YOUR FACE from the get-go. You even see discussion of this on FR and in the "mainstream" media. And gov't either LYING or "misrepresenting" (my money's on LYING) whether they had him and why, and what they were doing with him.

This story DEMANDS a thorough investigation, through the press and otherwise. Unfortunately, the gov't. has ZERO trustworthiness in any such investigation because they may well be the perps. Either all of them or some of them.
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neebob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
23. Has Michael Berg explained how his son got into Iraq?
Because as far as I know, you can't just hop on a plane and go there. You have to have a contract, and to get one you have to go through the bidding process with a government agency like USAID or the Corps of Engineers or one of their prime contractors. And even then you don't just hop on a plane and go to Iraq. There's a process. This is my understanding, based on my professional experience.

They don't just let Joe radio-tower repair dude go to Iraq, look for broken radio towers, hand out business cards, and say his tools are in the truck.

So how did Nicholas Berg get into Iraq? Why did he want to after being dragged into a federal investigation, knowing he was on the radar? And why did his dad think it was a good idea? I mean did he sign that A.N.S.W.E.R. petition with his business name thinking it would help Nick get work?

Never mind how an associate of Zaccarias Moussaoui came to use Nick Berg's email account or what happened to him after he got to Iraq. How'd he get there in the first place?
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PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
25. Devil's advocate here for a second...
Moussaoui got around a bit, and one of the places he went to get private pilot training was Oklahoma. Berg was taking classes at (I believe) OU at the time, and although it's mighty fishy, it's conceivable that an outgoing type like Berg might be hit upon by someone like Moussaoui to "just send an e-mail" if they met in public.

I must say, though, just the act of justifying it is a hell of a stretch.
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neebob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. I thought it was an associate of Moussaoui
Either way, consider the coincidences here. First, he gets on a bus in Oklahoma and is approached by someone creating an association with the supposed 20th hijacker. Later, he goes to Iraq and ends up being executed by another bigtime most-wanted terrorist. Wow! What are the chances of that happening?
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Mayberry Machiavelli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. What're the odds indeed. What, this guy was some kind of Forrest Gump,
showing up in every significant "war on terra" event of the shrubco administration over the years?

FBI Agent: You again! Fancy meeting you here!
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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. That's the thing that bugs me...
WHO was the associate of Moussaoui? Why hasn't the associate been identified and why can't the media get a hold of him to interview him... Let's hear the associates side of the story?
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Must_B_Free Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #28
39. I think they may have used his email account to purchase a PA plane ticket
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TorchTheWitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #28
48. Isn't it obvious?
WHO was the associate of Moussaoui? Why hasn't the associate been identified and why can't the media get a hold of him to interview him... Let's hear the associates side of the story?

According to news reports, he was caught. That's why the FBI questioned Nick in their investigation. They questioned a lot of people as said Person on Bus was found to have used many other peoples' email addresses to send messages to Moussaoui. Isn't it rather obvious why they won't/can't reveal the name or anything else about said Person on Bus? He's at Gitmo.
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LibertyorDeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
29. That does it for me. I'm Officially in the Conspiracy Camp..

This thing Stinks 6 ways from Sunday.

How much more of this do they expect us to swallow.

"Berg's e-mail account was being used by Zacarias Moussaoui!"

Who just happened to sit next to him on a Bus & Berg not only lets him use his PC but gives him the pass to his e-mail account....WTF

Well Fuck me that's just so much Bullshit I can smell it from here.

Is this for real they expect us to buy this shite....

Not me not one frickin syllable

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rumguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
30. wait was Moussaoui using Berg's email right up till the end
or did he just use it once or twice?

Also I read that Berg gave it to a third-party who gave it to Moussaoui.

But it is said he gave it to that individual on a bus after lending that individual his laptop. What kind of bus has internet access? And wouldn't Berg had entered the password himself and not given it to a complete stranger? And if he had wouldn't he have changed it shortly thereafter?

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neebob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Good point
I'm not sure when Nick Berg was in Oklahoma, but I have the impression it was before wireless internet. So you have to figure he gave the guy his password knowing it would be used later. Then you have to ask why he would have done that, knowing the guy could easily set up his own account with Yahoo! or Hotmail or whatever. He'd have to be a complete idiot - yet he was able to get into Iraq with no official reason to be there.
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Must_B_Free Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. That part is very fishy
do they mean like an AOL login? for dial in?
or pop3 password.

Yeah and how does he send an email on a bus? Wireless?

Why Oklahoma? How freaky is that?
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doni_georgia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
34. I asked a couple of questions in another thread
How the hell did Berg get granted entry into Iraq? He flew into Baghdad on Royal Jordanian Air. HELLO! I just don't see US officials allowing someone they questioned about possible connections to Moussaoui just fly into Iraq.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #34
40. No - he flew into Jordan
I've seen no info that he flew into Baghdad. I think he took surface transportation to Iraq.
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #34
50. Who else was on that plane and did they know Moussaoui or Zarqawi?
Edited on Sat May-15-04 07:14 PM by Straight Shooter
Would Berg stand out on a plane? A young 26 year old, clean-shaven, friendly? Did someone tip off someone else that he was headed toward Iraq? Was Berg under surveillance not just by the FBI and the U.S. military, but by others with a different interest in Berg?

I tell you one thing, if I'm looking for work, I sure don't have the funds to go a'traveling around the world. Who was paying his way?

edit: I don't believe for a minute it was Zarqawi, so I'll edit that to "an associate of Zarqawi"
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darkstar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 04:30 PM
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44. As far as we know
these news stories have not been cleared up or discredited?

Senor said that in Iraq, Berg had no affiliation with the U.S. government, the coalition or ''to my knowledge'' any coalition-affiliated contractor. But Senor would not specify why Iraqi police, who generally take direction from coalition authorities, had arrested him and held him.

http://www.boston.com/dailynews/133/world/Americans_den...



U.S. officials have said Berg was arrested on March 24 because of suspicious behavior. For one thing, he was moving about in a dangerous place without any escort. For another, a U.S. official said, Berg was Jewish but was carrying texts that seemed anti-Semitic.

http://www.nbc5.com/news/3300057/detail.html??z=dp&dpsw...

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