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mopaul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 06:18 AM
Original message
"we need to win this war or we'll all be converted to radical islam!
said a c-span caller............i'm laughing between tears.

the islamists have absolutely no desire to convert the entire world to radical islam. only christians do stuff like that.
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RebelOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 06:27 AM
Response to Original message
1. Yes, just heard that.
Lady needs to go back to Wal-Mart and exchange her brain for a new one.
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Guava Jelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 06:37 AM
Response to Original message
2. Behold the power of stupidity
Them muzlems oveer thar hate us and wanna put us in burrkahs and make us hate jeezus.
we need to fight them tearist over there before they hop in their b1 bombers and git us here.
Stupidity the other white meat
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forgethell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #2
11. Whoa, buddy,
you either need to learn to spell, or sharpen your sense of humor.

;)
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EV1Ltimm Donating Member (831 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #11
43. <cough> nt.
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Tandalayo_Scheisskopf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 06:37 AM
Response to Original message
3. I have long felt that...
Parenthood should be something that required competence testing. I am now starting to think that phone use, beyond calling 911, is another something else that might require such testing.

Perhaps just testing for orientation to people, places, things, time and date?
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 07:10 AM
Response to Original message
4. i don`t know but
i`m trying to win the war against the neocon fascist Christian churches and there spokesmen and women who would cast me into hell for believing my Christ has compassion and understanding for all men,women,and children no matter their race, religion, and economic situation. my Christ is not the enemy of Islam but the revered prophet,who did not die but lived on. my Christ would never side with any government and stated it very clearly in the books.my Christ would believe the Coptic Church is truer to his words than the roman-catholic church..but that`s just my opinion and my war
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 07:29 AM
Response to Original message
5. You are so right
Muslims acknowledge that Jews and Christians are people of the Book and deserve respect and freedom of practicing their faith. Like Jews, Muslims don't force conversion-Christians do. I recall the Moorish Empire in Spain-Jews were welcome there. But when the Christians took over in 1492, they had this lovely Inquisition where they forced Jews into churches and gave them a choice-convert or exile.

Some people figure that all faiths are like Christianity and want to force people to convert. Wouldn't it be nice if they found out what other faiths were really about?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #5
14. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #14
24. I respectfully disagree
Edited on Sat May-15-04 11:14 AM by ayeshahaqqiqa
Please cite sources for the accusation of Egyptians forcing Christians to convert. I was aware of the Jannisaries, a sad fact that happened in the era of the Ottoman Empire, and had forgotten it. Thank you for bringing it to my attention.

Where do you get your information that Muslims think you must be Muslim to obtain heaven? You obviously don't know many Sufis, that's for sure. I cannot speak for other sects of Islam, but only my own experience, which is with Sufi Orders.

This is part of one of my daily prayers, called "Salat". Would you say this is saying that only Muslims can enter Heaven?

"...Allow us to recognize Thee in all Thy Holy Names and Forms
As Rama, as Krishna, as Shiva, as Buddha.
Let us know Thee as Abraham, as Solomon, as Zarathustra,
As Moses, as Jesus, as Mohammed
And in many other names and forms, known and unknown to the world...."

http://www.churchofall.us/prayers.html

The obvious negativity eminating from your post is something I have often encountered from people on other boards and in person. It does make me sad, however, to see it happening here on DU.
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forgethell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. What do you mean, "negativity"?
Edited on Sat May-15-04 12:15 PM by forgethell
I was responding to this quote, "the islamists have absolutely no desire to convert the entire world to radical islam. only christians do stuff like that." which is total nonsense.


You want some links? OK

http://www.barnabasfund.org/News/Archive/Egypt/Egypt-20...


http://www.persecution.org/Countries/egypt.html

Read way down on this last one.

There are dozens of others. Do your own search if you are really interested in learning.

Sufism. I am no expert, but I seem to recall that it is a somewhat mystical branch of Islam that has been persecuted by other Muslims for many, many years.

Then, there is the hatred that the Shi'ite and Sunnit Muslims have borne toward each other for centuries.

Look, I'm not particularly trying to criticize Islam or Arabs. I'm just saying that "Christians", over the centuries, have been no worse than "Muslims", when judged by current standards.



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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #14
26. I am unaware of any forced conversions anywhere in the world today
Where are the links to support those statements?



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forgethell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. See #27 n/t
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. oh please--I guess I should have specified, "reputable links"
I don't consider those links to be news sources.
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forgethell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #30
42. Oh, you mean a source that agrees with you 98%
of the time. I see. However, it is curious that we don't hear much about this from the mainstream press. They do have an agenda, you know. I had to give up my crystal ball, so I don't know if I can find a "reputable" source that you would accept. Try the ones listed below.Also, register for the discussion boards on www.islamicity.org . Very informative over a period of time. Or, you can google as well as I can, if you are interested enough. It is not my policy to beat people over the head with links. There are none so blind as those who will not see.

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewForeignBureaus.asp?Page=%5CF...

http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20031030-080058-5231r.ht...

http://www.metimes.com/cens/conversions.htm

http://www.copts.net/descrimination.asp?offset=42


:-(
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #42
46. No, I mean like Reuters or AFP or even the New York Times
Edited on Sat May-15-04 09:06 PM by meluseth
But hey, remember how you said there weren't any forced conversions to Christianity anymore? Turns out that was just a tad incorrect.

See post #41. I consider ABC's 20/20, for example, a somewhat more reputable source than something calling itself "Cybercast News Service."

On edit: According to Cybercast News Service's "History, "Study after study by the Media Research Center, the parent organization of CNSNews.com, clearly demonstrate a liberal bias in many news outlets bias by commission and bias by omission that results in a frequent double-standard in editorial decisions on what constitutes "news."

The Media Research Center calls itself "The Leader in Documenting, Exposing and Neutralizing Liberal Media Bias" here: http://www.mrc.org /. And looky looky, "the MRC President Brent Bozell on FNC's Hannity & Colmes May 14, 9pm ET."

Yeah. That does tell me all I need to know about a source. Ain't research grand?
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-04 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #42
47. The "mainstream press" has an "agenda," you say?
"However, it is curious that we don't hear much about this from the mainstream press. They do have an agenda, you know."

What, pray tell, is this "agenda" of which you speak?

You wouldn't be agreeing with the right-wing Media Research Center that the media has some sort of "liberal bias," would you?

Do explain.
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Merlin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 07:32 AM
Response to Original message
6. We shouldn't diss this pov. Instead we need a soundbite that counteres it.
I think we need to really think this assertion through. I hear it more and more coming from Joe Sixpack and his right wing mentors.

We need to think it through and come up with the hidden assumptions.

Then we need a brief, powerful statement that shoots it down so we can stop this piec of crap argument in its tracks.

Any ideas?

Any analysis?
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OKNancy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 07:36 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. If your faith is so weak that you could be converted
to Islam, what does that say about your commitment?

Or: If you are so weak that you could be converted, what does that say about your faith?
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Vickers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #7
19. Bingo!
Jeebus, these meatheads think that people become homosexual peacenik Islamic Jetta drivers at the drop of a hat.

Don't they have any backbone?
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KG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 07:36 AM
Response to Original message
8. converted from radical xtianity to radical islam? wats the diff?
both are signs of mental illness.
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 07:39 AM
Response to Original message
9. And how exactly is this war stopping radical Islam? n/t
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forgethell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
10. Then why is it
Edited on Sat May-15-04 10:22 AM by forgethell
that they did it so often in the past? How about this little quote from the Koran

<2.191> And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

or this

<9.5> So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.


or this


<48.16> Say to those of the dwellers of the desert who were left behind: You shall soon be invited (to fight) against a people possessing mighty prowess; you will fight against them until they submit; then if you obey, Allah will grant you a good reward; and if you turn back as you turned back before, He will punish you with a painful punishment.

or this

5.64] And the Jews say: The hand of Allah is tied up! Their hands shall be shackled and they shall be cursed for what they say. Nay, both His hands are spread out, He expends as He pleases; and what has been revealed to you from your Lord will certainly make many of them increase in inordinacy and unbelief; and We have put enmity and hatred among them till the day of resurrection; whenever they kindle a fire for war Allah puts it out, and they strive to make mischief in the land; and Allah does not love the mischief-makers.

or this

9.30] And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!




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mopaul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. why indeed. our shared god, christians, jews, muslims tells us to
religion makes idiots of us all, if we let it
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forgethell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. this quote from you
"the islamists have absolutely no desire to convert the entire world to radical islam. only christians do stuff like that."

do you admit that you were wrong?
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mopaul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. no
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Yupster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #15
32. Here's a few more from a quick search
Edited on Sat May-15-04 12:42 PM by Yupster
The first is about a Pakistani boy who was kidnapped on his way home from school and ended up in a madrasa being trained for jihad in Kashmir before he escaped.

The second is about many Christian children in Indonesia who were kidnapped and forcibly converted including the detail of forced female circumsicions with a razor blade.

Just do a search. You'll see many many articles about forced conversions to Islam.

I think the Sudan would be the best place in the world to ask the question whether radical Muslims want to convert other places. The Christian southern half of the country has been pretty much devastated as whole villages have been emptied of their men who were killed and children who've been taken away.

It seems Chad appears to be the next victim as Muslim militias are just in the last year starting to raid that pretty much defenseless land. The US is currently trying to train Chad's defense forces, but that seems pretty hopeless to me.

http://www.jubileecampaign.org/home/modules.php?op=modl...

http://www.geocities.com/Arumbaikole/jubilee_campaign30...

This one's about hostages in the Philippines who told they would be beheaded if they didn't convert. Ha. As if Muslim captors would ever behead a hostage.

http://www.persecution.com.au/news/printart.asp?artID={...

This last one's about Christian children being kidnapped and converted in Egypt.

http://www.coptslink.com/coptgirls.htm
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Links to sources that get their justification from being "persecuted"
Yeah, those are convincing.
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Yupster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:47 PM
Original message
Do your own research
People learn best that way.
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
38. You're the one making the claims--back them up with reputable links
Edited on Sat May-15-04 12:50 PM by meluseth
I'm sure I can research the Web all day and find links to all kinds of inaccurate bullshit.



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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #32
41. Gosh, I did my own research, and look what I found
Edited on Sat May-15-04 04:10 PM by meluseth
From websites every bit as "reputable" as yours:

Last month the Tripura government made the shocking revelation that they had irrefutable evidence about the complicity of the Baptist Church's involvement in backing of separatist terrorist groups! Tripura state police had uncovered details of the direct link between the Church and the terrorists after intensive questioning of an influential church leader.

It has now become apparent that the pattern of forced conversions at gunpoint are irrefutably linked to the Baptist Church in Tripura. For decades Tripura's indigenous tribal population has been dragged out of their homes and forced to convert to Christianity under threat of violence. Whenever any of the tribals organize Hindu festivals or rituals, the terrorist groups attack to desecrate and kill the participants. Just last year the terrorists had issued a "ban" on the Hindu festivals of Durga Puja and Saraswati Puja. The terrorist NLFT's manifesto clearly spells out that their objective is to " expand the kingdom of God and Christ in Tripura."

http://www.swordoftruth.com/swordoftruth/archives/byaut...


Muslim Children Forcibly Converted To Christianity

An ABC 20/20 program which aired Friday, August 18, 10:00 PM EST, depicts the plight of a Muslim family, Sadri and Sebhat Krasniqi, that had two children snatched from their custody because, according to a Texas judge, they would be better off in a Christian home.

http://www.twf.org/News/Y1997/Convers.html



Forcible conversions to Christianity in Mizoram

Mizoram has shut its doors to any possible return of over 45,000
Reang migrants who had to flee to neighbouring Tripura and Assam
to escape mainly Christian missionary-backed atrocities and
forcible conversions.


http://www.sandiego.edu/theo/risa-l/archive/msg02748.ht...


You were right, it's very interesting what a little research will turn up.




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SemperEadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #15
36. funny, it's not Muslims knocking on my door on Saturday morning
wanting to come in and convert me..
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bacchant Donating Member (747 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. Heh, thanks Religion
Edited on Sat May-15-04 10:18 AM by awake
thanks a lot.
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #10
25. Please don't take things out of context
People have been doing that with the Bible for years to 'prove' their points, whether it be citing one line from one of Paul's Epistles to condone slavery or Genesis 3:16 to keep women from having equal rights.

That being said, let me quote my translation of the Qur'an, which is by Abdullah Yusuf Ali, published by Amana Corp, Brentwood MD USA (NOT a Wahhabist translation, btw)

Sura 2:190 (the line before the first one quoted):
Fight in the cuase of Allah
Those who fight you {boldface mine)
But do not transgress limits;
For Allah loveth not transgressors.

Please note the difference in the translation of the sura quoted, especially the last line, which is again in boldface by me:

Sura 2:191
And slay them
Wherever ye catch them
And turn them out
Frome where they have
Turned you out;
For tumult and oppression
Are worse than slaughter;
But fight them not
At the Sacred Mosque,
Unless they (first)
Fight you there:
But if they fight you,
Slay them.
Such is the reward
Of those who suppress faith.

Note please that this is a lot different than 'unbelievers'. Please note also the line following:

Sura 2:192
But if they cease,
Allah if Oft-Forgiving,
Most Merciful.

I don't want to make this any longer, but I hope you get the drift. When lines are selectively taken out of context, especially without citations as to the translation, one must be careful of the conclusions one may draw, imho.
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peekaloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
16. them burkas are hell during the summer months.....save us Jebus!
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bacchant Donating Member (747 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
18. It'll be a little hard to do one beheading at a time
This whole jihad thing is greatly amplified by us. End our dependency on fossil fuel and these issues will quickly go from global to regional.
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susu369 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
20. To reassure that pitiful c-span caller
I will remind her:

"I KNEW that my God was bigger than his," Lieutenant General William G. Boykin said of his Muslim opponent. "I knew that my God was a real God, and his was an idol."

Not to worry, we have the BIG GOD on our side.

Freudian images here...our God wears really big shoes.

:-)
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
21. We must win this war or we'll all be converted to radical salami!!
I'd rather be a smoked Brat.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
22. Get a brain, moran.
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hel Donating Member (266 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
23. That might have been true during Crusades
where the Muslim East was far more powerful and greater than the Christian Europe. But today, it is just paranoia.

Which "war" is she/he talking about anyway? War in Iraq? Iraqis will use their nonexistent nuclear arms against USA if troops are pulled out? Do you see any other Arabs rushing to help them in any way? Or the so called "War against Terror"? Do you see Osama Bin Laden getting himself a regular army in any country, and even if he did, do you think any army in the Middle East could stand against yours?
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maggrwaggr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
29. hm, they've replaced "communism" with "radical islam"
same people, saying the same shit.

I thought these people had died out in the last 30 years. I guess not.
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Burma Jones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #29
35. These Jackasses will never die out
There are far too many people that derive all their energy from their own fear.
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LittleApple81 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
31. What about the Moonies? Don't they worry about the Moonies? n/t
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Mayberry Machiavelli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
34. "How ya figure?"
"I'm not sure I agree with you a hunnert percent on your policework, there, Lou."

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drdigi420 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
39. christians and muslims should get along and celebrate their
common delusions

both believe in a magic man in the sky that controls everything

both should be ridiculed equally
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IHaveADream Donating Member (188 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-04 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #39
51. Ain't it the truth!!
of course bush's god is white, American and Protestant!
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Mayberry Machiavelli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
40. In taking this position, no one ever proposes a mechanism by which
the Islamists could feasibly take over the world.

Pat Buchanan actually debunks this concept pretty well in this essay:

http://amconmag.com/3_1_04/cover.html

Nazi Germany actually took over a sizeable chunk of the world, and could have potentially held onto some big European empire and changed world alignment.

Communism involved a substantial part of the world population (still does if you count China as "Communist").

Both of the above examples had massive military capability and substantial economic and other resources, so regardless of the merits of the "domino" and other world conquest theories, there was some element of plausibility.

In the case of radical Islamic terrorists, all we really have is a large portion of the world population being Muslim. Not much real military capability at all (why do you think they are using TERRORISM, numbskulls!). So where's the argument.
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elf Donating Member (805 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
44. oh holy stupidity
Lyndie England thought, she did the torture because she could help to avoid another 911!!!!!!! :spank:
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
45. We need to win this election or ...

or we'll all be converted to radical neoconservativism!
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Mayberry Machiavelli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-04 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #45
49. LOL, bravo!
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-04 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
48. Mohammad absolutely says all the world should be created
they do too absolutely believe that all need to be converted or die. that is the crux of the fundamentalism of this religion and if you read Mohammad you will see clearly he lays it out in many ways

also the fundamentalist in Christianity believe all should be converted in their fundamentalist, literist view of Christianity. talking to a fundie Christian, i finally told him as he is telling me Islam, the parallel between Christianity and Islam in absolute the same
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-04 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
50. Radical Islam, Radical Christianity... It's the exact same thing
Hell, its even the same God. And by that, I don't mean the God of Abraham. I mean one's own sense of self-righteousness and piety.
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Oddman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-04 12:46 PM
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52. I believe in the almighty
White, protestant, American God!!!!

Hallelujah brothers and sisters!!!

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