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Berg bled less profusely than a single live sheep (graphic)

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Cronus Protagonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 01:35 AM
Original message
Berg bled less profusely than a single live sheep (graphic)
While one of Chalabi's men is speaking in Arabic, Berg sits motionless and seemingly propped up ramrod like as if by a stick. His expression never changes in the slightest although several of Chalabi's men in the background shuffle and move normally.

Some people have noted that his hairline seemed to be changed, and he didn't look so much like he does in an earlier picture. Dead people's muscles relax and their facial expression softens as if deeply asleep, just like Berg seemed to be during the speech. And gravity pulls the skin down in corpses, which is why they always seem to have hollow cheeks when seen in a coffin.

In one part of the clip Berg appears to move a little, but it's more like a mannekin's move when bumped from the back than a live person doing something intentionally. Or it could have been just a nervous twitch of a recently dispatched human being.

In any case, I'm leaning towards ADT (the already dead theory) mostly because I've seen the live slaughter of three sheep and I can say that when the jugular is cut, blood doesn't just bleed out, it gushes out in a jet of about a foot, perhaps more, in length, pulsating with every beat of the heart. And it takes about 1-2 minutes or so for the pumping to stop in a sheep. Humans are much larger and I'm pretty sure we have higher blood pressure, so it wouldn't be unreasonable for a live person's neck to spurt pencil sized streams of blood 1-3 feet in the air with each heart beat for at least a minute or two.

Nothing like that happened on the video. It was as if they were cutting open a corpse - the blood was slow and syrupy, not watery and fluid like a real live death. And there was hardly any, which surprised me because I needed a large bucket for each sheep and a human is way larger.

Sure, there was some nerve action of the body while they were severing the spinal cord, but again that is pretty much the same as what I saw in the sheep I saw killed. They were also already dead and they not only kicked, but one them blinked long after it was dead and my uncle was halfway through peeling the pelt off.



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burrowowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 01:39 AM
Response to Original message
1. I agree with you
I have seen animals slaughtered, the caritoid arteries spurt out and even bleed quite a bit when nicked. Have seen this on a human.
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thegreatone2020 Donating Member (17 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 01:43 AM
Response to Original message
2. shadows in video
what about the shadows in the video? it seems as though bergs shadow is cast in a different direction than the people standing behind him...anyone see this also??
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Cronus Protagonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 01:48 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. I reviewed it again and I changed my mind
He does appear alive in the first part of the speech. Looking at the one time he moves, I think I can see his chest expand and contract, which means he was alive during the filming of the speech. And I don't see the shadow issue at all.

He was dead when they cut off his head, though.

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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 01:52 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. He shifts
and resettles himself just seconds before being attacked. He's definitely alive during the leadup. And that shadow nonsense is goofball, unless someone's proposing Berg's a vampire or a Pixar creation.
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Cronus Protagonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 02:03 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Yeah, I noticed a few small shifts later on too
I didn't notice them until I zoomed in a bit.
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rumguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 01:52 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. yes his shoulders shrugged a couple of times too
he's definetaly alive during the speech...
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. Hi thegreatone2020!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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RapidCreek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 01:56 AM
Response to Original message
6. Actually Cronus the Jugular is a vein
Edited on Sat May-15-04 01:57 AM by RapidCreek
it returns blood to the heart....and at a fairly low pressure. I believe you are speaking of the carotid artery/ies..which will initially expel roughly 1 pint in 4 seconds upon being severed.

Check this link for more info.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...



RC
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Cronus Protagonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 02:07 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. I think you're correct.
I just watched the slaughter and assisted with the collection of the meat and blood, I didn't do a rumninant anatomy course :)

Although I certainly saw every part of these three sheep and I know what's in there even if I don't know the correct names. It was literally a bloody mess.

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thegreatone2020 Donating Member (17 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
9. the shadow...
what im suggesting is that the video was doctored. You can easily edit videos to place someone in the scene that wasnt actually there...just superimpose a previously made video (berg sitting there alive, acting completely unaware and unafraid) to a new video with four men reading a proclamation...then substitute bergs dead body for the gruesome parts...

this is not impossible...
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maggrwaggr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
11. so what? What difference does it make?
If he was dead first when they chopped off his head, or whether they drugged him up, or whether they drank his goddamn blood before they cut off his head?

It really doesn't matter one freaking bit.

I don't understand all the obsession about this.
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