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Dirk39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-04 11:50 PM
Original message
Racism: Could this (still) happen in the USA?
Hello from Germany,
it's just an easy question, but be honest:

One friend of mine, a refugee from Africa, did tell me that she was entering a bus here in Hamburg about one week ago - one of Germany's largest cities - and she took a place near an old German, maybe about 60 years old or more.
This guy immediately left his place in the bus and did spit at her, slandering about "Blacks" etc.
Some people were looking, but noone did say anything or did attack the guy. (Hey even me could beat down a 60 year old Nazi-idiot...)


I know that racism still exists in Germany, but I really was surprised.
Thank god, you would have a hard time, entering any bus in Hamburg, where not at least a third of the people aren't "white"....

A lot of refugees feel welcome here in Germany and esp. in Hamburg. I know what I'm talking about, 'cause not only some friends of mine have african parents, I know a lot off refugees, too, who just came here to Germany within the last years, some with papers, some without papers.
But this event did really hurt me.
Dirk





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2Design Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-04 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
1. We still have KKK here and they still burn crosses and get away with it
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BiteMeFrance Donating Member (7 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. Where Are The Cross Burnings?
I've lived in Louisiana for over 40 years and I've never seen a burning cross nor somebody dressed in a KKK hood. The only time I've ever seen anything like that is on television and the national media gives them more attention than they deserve. Maybe they think by exposing them that they will lose support in the south, but the fact is that everybody here already thought they were ignorant white trash rednecks.
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Delano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. To be fair to the south...
I know that North San Diego County and Orange County, CA are hotbeds of white supremacy.

I still don't care for the overall social climate of the south, though...
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TexasBushwhacker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #8
34. Maybe covert rather than overt
but definitely still all over the country. The overt racism is pretty much only found in lower class whites who still use the "N" word and other epithets.
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drthais Donating Member (771 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. hey! cut that OUT!
if you have lived in Loisiana for 'over 40 years'
and I have lived here for 47
since BIRTH!

do you NOT remember David Duke??!!!
who still speaks. albeit from a halfway house?

do you NOT remember the year
we were forced to CHOOSE
between that right-wing KKK facist
and the criminal Edwin Edwards>? and how hard that was?

do you NOT live in a racist town in Louisiana??
I know I do
our lovely female mayor
absolutely LOATHES blacks
take it from me
who helps run the Food Pantry here
she wants them IN THE BACK OF TOWN
where NO ONE CAN SEE THEM
come to get their desperatley needed groceries


don;t TELL me this doesn't exist
I know for a fact it does


Thais Perkins
Zachary, La.
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Eye and Monkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. David Duke is alive and well, and planning on running again.
Edited on Sat May-15-04 12:33 AM by Eye and Monkey
He announced that yesterday.

See my post below for Duke links.
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fortyfeetunder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #6
19. We just had one in Arlington WA a few months ago
A couple of teenagers did it to a pastor's home. The pastor forgave them but they were sentenced. Up yonder here in WA state, there is racism, but oh so subtle. These folks like to hide it but we know otherwise.
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IronLionZion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #6
29. Western PA, Southern Ohio, Michigan
KKK is usually in rural places but they do hold rallies in cities like Pittsburgh.

Skinheads and neo-nazis are usually in more urban areas.



http://www.tolerance.org/maps/hate/
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IronLionZion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #6
30. haha this fool is TOMBSTONED!!!
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Baltimoreboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
36. To be fair
Racist assholes can still burn crosses on their own land without breaking any laws.
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-04 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
2. Oh, yes, racism is very much still thriving
Disgusting, isn't it? Americans have a very hard time understanding that white don't make right. It's the fear they carry around, that someone might encroach on what they have, and then they won't have as much. Never mind that they stole it from someone else to begin with.

Progress comes very slowly to a closed mind.
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corporatewhore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
3. Racism is in our policy!!
Usually racism is more closeted but Right now its A-OK to be anti arab/anti islam
check this out http://www.adc.org/index.php?id=2231
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Alerter_ Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #3
13. "Racism" is Genetic Warfare and Eugenics
Check out what Big Pharma is doing. Look at tobacco companies. Remember the Opium Wars? Slavery never left, it just got better PR.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:07 AM
Response to Original message
4. yes it still happens
and other nice things that really makes me proud to be an american..there`s nothing quite like working in a factory where everyone is white and all they can talk about is "niggers" "queers" "spic's" and "sand niggers" and the guy next to you is a neo-nazi who can`t figure out why girls won`t go out with him after they see his wall sized nazi flag... America makes me really proud when i think of people like these. old habits die hard,i suppose the old guy doesn`t like anyone...
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corporatewhore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
5. My personal exp with racism

Been called a greasy mexican
been told to go back to Puerto Rico (I am mexican)
my friend has been told to go back as well and beaten with an american flag while she was countering one of those freeper war rallies
While standing with my Palestinian American friend at a peace vigil and holding "free palestine" sign a racist freeper came up and both called us an ugly racial slur and called us saddam lovin terra-ists (i told him to go fuck himself and then told him i was a latina oh well got brown skin any way)
i can turn on any AM hate radio and listen to bigots who are paid to say that my people breed like rabbits (not give birth like humans mind ya) are dirty and come from "turd world countries" (nods to savage weiner)
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bigbillhaywood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
7. Flying While Arab nt.
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AbbeyRoad Donating Member (848 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:16 AM
Response to Original message
9. Yes, it could happen and it does
Edited on Sat May-15-04 12:17 AM by AbbeyRoad
Unfortunately, racism isn't anywhere near gone in the U.S., although some would like to convince you that it's ancient history. Lynching was widespread 50 to 60 years ago. How could that not incredibly shape the mindset of several generations? Oh yeah, we've completely moved past that. :eyes:

For an overt example of U.S. racism you can always go back to the James Byrd case in Texas. There are many everyday examples out there too.
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Eye and Monkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. James Byrd - "all crimes are hate crimes" (why Bush refused bill)
I realize that this point is somewhat off-topic. Junior, while governor in Texas, refused to sign a hate-crimes bill that was written as a response to James Byrd's death. His reasoning - "all crimes are hate crimes" - so there was "no need for additional punishment". The Texas legislature tabled the bill, knowing that Bush would refuse to sign it.

Eventually, the Texas legislature did vote-through a hate-crimes bill, which was signed into law by Bush's hair-bag lieutenant after Junior was sElected in 2000. I believe the final law was gutted of protections for gays & lesbians.
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Eye and Monkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:20 AM
Response to Original message
10. Have you ever heard of David Duke?
Today, he announced plans that he'll be running for office in the next year-or-two. Again. He didn't say what office, but of course he'll run. He was previously a state legislator in Louisiana. He made a bid for LA governor in the early '90's, and lost by a slim margin.

I think it likely that Duke supporters would not even ride public transportation for fear of being in proximity to someone of another "color".

http://www.duke.org /

http://www.davidduke.com/colorcrime/cc-1.html

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drthais Donating Member (771 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. do you remember
that when Duke was a state Representative
no-one would sit next to him
at those cute little doulble desks
they use in Baton Rouge at the Legislature?
ha
he had to sit alone, like in Kindergarten

for four years

he had better NOT show his little face
as a prize for the electorate again

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Eye and Monkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. He'll run. If he's eligible, he might try to oppose Jindal.
If he's not eligible to run against Jindal, he'll pick another race just as quickly as he can.

And he'll get votes.

Of course, for a slime like Duke, it's not just about winning the race. It's also about the fundraising.
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pezcore64 Donating Member (498 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:44 AM
Response to Original message
17. *GASP* Racism in the US?!
Edited on Sat May-15-04 12:46 AM by pezcore64
duh
of course there is.
prolly always will be if we stay the course we are in too.

i dunno tho, racism knows no colour. ya know?
*shrugs*


it may not be as apparent these days, but thats only because its no longer a socially acceptable thing to be. its still goin' strong tho.

All I know is we gotta stop these neo Nazi's soon.

*hope i dont offend by saying nazi*
but thats what we have going on in the background in america folks

i kid u not
:P
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Sandpiper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 01:09 AM
Response to Original message
18. Racism in the USA - Mississippi
Haley Barbour ran a campaign for governor, of waving the confederate flag and attending Barbecues with the overtly white supremacist Council of Conservative Citizens. And he won.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #18
35. "Racism in the USA - California"
Pete Wilson ran two campaigns for governor based on blaming Hispanic immigrants for all the state's problems. And he won both times.
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DoNotRefill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 01:22 AM
Response to Original message
20. Hamburg is a cesspool.
I made the mistake of getting stuck there one night with my wife. Never, ever, EVER again.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 05:23 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. Wie bitte?
Sorry your experience of Hamburg was so negative. It's great! I played in the club where the Beatles were born!!! It's an AMAZING old port city with a very rich history. AND their language is all that and a bag o' chips.

I've experienced similar senile Germans. They don't offend me in the least. I feel so sorry for them as I do for anyone so completely consumed by hatred that it's ETCHED on his/her face. They're pitiful, sick and dying, what's to get aufgeregt? Racism is a mental illness. Ever met someone with Tourette's Syndrome?

Sure there's racism in Germany. Sonsts nichts. It is different, more easily overcome, if not dispelled than the American variety. That's just my take. The worst racism I've experienced in Germany has come from Americans. :shrug:
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DoNotRefill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 05:38 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. I got stuck at the train station with my wife.
while walking to the hotel we found, I had a guy offer to "rent" me a 14 year old Eastern European girl. This was while my wife was walking next to me, on a Sunday night. When I said no, he offered to "rent" my wife. He seemed surprised when I got offended.

I loved Germany as a whole. Hamburg sucked.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 05:49 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. The area around the Hbf...
Ewwwww!!! C'mon, don't condemn the city for one night near those tracks. The Frankfurt Hbf is prolly worse. ;-)
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Dirk39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #23
32. Hi Karenina!
I live in Hamburg for more than 15 years and I grew up near Hamburg.
What really makes me angry is that noone supported her. People were just looking. I'm just incredible angry about this happening to her. She's a refugee and grew up in Liberia and Jamaica. For people, who grew up the way she did, it's much more difficult to understand this.
My experience in New York in the late 80s was that when I was taking the subway train to the Bronx, after just two stations, I was the only white in the whole train - that's seperation! - but on the other hand, in a metropolian city, I would expect people to react.
Thanx for your reply,
Dirk
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-04 05:22 AM
Response to Reply #32
39. Naaaa... Dirk!
:hi: I certainly agree that the "spectators" pose a serious problem.
I lived in NYC when Kitty Genovese was murdered in a HUGE apartment complex in Queens. How many heard her screams? NO ONE came to assist her. It's an issue that stands on its on its own.

Silence is complicity. It's a popular theme of discussion in these parts. ;-)
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 02:46 AM
Response to Original message
21. We've got what amounts to a klansman as the attorney general.
John Ashcroft went to a white supremacist camp and gave a speach about how Jesus was "the king of America."
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mr blur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 04:05 AM
Response to Original message
22. I'm ashamed to say that this could happen anywhere
People are just ignorant, stupid and ignorant wherever you go.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. Senile old Volk
don't bother me. AMERICANS WHO DON'T GET IT REALLY BOTHER ME. :freak:
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neebob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
27. Nah
People who advocate nuking entire countries and joke about torture and think it's OK to bomb churches and drag guys to their deaths behind pickup trucks and leave guys tied to fences to die after beating them up and kill doctors would never just spit on someone.
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demosincebirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
28. Some people see the
world through rose colored glass.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
31. Ever hear of the Aryan Nation? They even use swastikas for
their emblem and think only white people deserve to live. They call themselves Christians and yet refuse to believe that Christ was a Jew because they want to kill Jews. They have no respect for the American government because they don't believe America should be ruled under our Constitution, but want to install their own military regime as our government. Most of them live in military compounds in rural areas. They aren't just a few nuts but a spreading movement of very racist white people.
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AspenRose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
33. Research the recent thread today about the segregated proms in GA.
Edited on Sat May-15-04 09:00 PM by DesertedRose
Also the thread about the protest against the anniversary of Brown v. Board of Education (which ended segregation in public schools) in KS by white supremacists (they were outnumbered, fortunately).

I will share a personal story.

I am in an interracial marriage and live in the southwest US. I had a woman from Sweden come up to me unprovoked and proceed to tell me about how she didn't approve of our being together.

I was shocked, since I thought Sweden was one of the more liberal European countries. But she was in her 60s or 70s, so she was older.

I am fortunate that in my 5 years of marriage, that is the worst I've encountered *knock wood*.

I won't go into things I experienced growing up in Texas.

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Dirk39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. Thanx for sharing, DesertedRose!
Sweden really is one of the more liberal European countries.
I grew up in a small German town near Hamburg with about 30.000 inhabitants and when I was a child, maybe about 3 or 4 people of african origin were living there. Germany only was about to become a country for immigrants then in the late sixties, early seventies, but most people came from Italy or Turkey. One of my best friends then was a guy, who's father was from Sudan while his mother was German.
But neither he or his sister were ever treated this way.

What makes me so angry now is that people dare to do something like this. Racists are usually cowards, they only act, if they feel that they can get away with what they're doing. And he got away with this.
And she's not the kind of person, who understands this - she grew up in Liberia and Jamaica and was just coming to Europe a few years ago. She was just asking me, why people like this guy hate her. It's not easy to find an answer,
Dirk



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ikojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-04 06:03 AM
Response to Reply #37
40. Dirk, Thanks for sharing your experiences about Hamburg
I have a question though....I have heard that it is incredibly difficult to become a citizen of Germany. Before the recent influx of immigrants from African ountries there were many immigrants (primarily "guest" workers") from Turkey.

http://www.germany-info.org/relaunch/info/publications/...

(Providing the labor that fuelled Germany's post-war Economic Miracle, over a million guest workers, most from Turkey, came to Germany to fill the job that locals couldn't take or didn't want.)

These people from Turkey have not exactly been welcomed with open arms and have faced discrimination and open hostility. I have also heard that they and their children, born in Germany, cannot obtain full German citizenship. Is this still true? Is a child born IN GERMANY of TWO immigrant parents considered German?

Here in the US, even if both of one's parents are illegal immigrants (meaning they have no visas) a baby born in the US is considered an American citizen.
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Dirk39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-04 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. A baby born in Germany isn't considered a German citizen....
This is one of the most annoying parts of our Constitution, 'cause it's directly related to the Nazis and the German history that made them possible.
Although France and the USA are very different, both countrie's citizenship is based on "values", the german citizenship is still based on "blood". That's history, but the shame is that we didn't change this till today.
We had an incredible idiotic case here in Hamburg, were two children were sent back to Africa: they grew up in Germany, they were going to school in Germany, their only language is German, but they were sent "back" to Africa, 'cause the way they came to Germany was "illegal".
Their mother lived her and while she started to get a live here in Germany, she left her children in Africa. The friends of her, who carried about the children in Africa did get tired of taking care for the children and instead of waiting for the mother to arrange everything, she simply bought them tickets and got them to Germany, where they were living for years. They're about 10 years old now.
I was writing a letter to our mayor here in Hamburg and reveived the answer, they would see the absurdity in this and look for a way, to get them back. But this was one year ago and I did never hear about them, again.

It really is very difficult to become a German citizen. On the other hand, compared to countries like Spain, everybody who has a citizenship gets all the social benefits from our welfare-system. In Spain it's like: here are the papers, work and care for yourself.
Many people use(d) countries like Spain to get into Europe and then travel to Germany. The more Europe is united, the more difficult things become, 'cause esp. Germany tries to force other countries to change their laws.
The less borders there are for money and investments, the more borders are there for people. And they call it "Globalisation" :-)

Thanx for sharing,
Dirk
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