Oh, lord...the Lynndie England sex video?!?

[Paragon]

http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/20802.htm

May 13, 2004 -- WASHINGTON - Shocking shots of sexcapades involving Pfc. Lynndie England were among the hundreds of X-rated photos and videos from the Abu Ghraib prison scandal shown to lawmakers in a top-secret Capitol conference room yesterday.

"She was having sex with numerous partners. It appeared to be consensual," said a lawmaker who saw the photos.

And, videos showed the disgraced soldier - made notorious in a photo showing her holding a leash looped around an Iraqi prisoner's neck - engaged in graphic sex acts with other soldiers in front of Iraqi prisoners, Pentagon officials told NBC Nightly News.

"Almost everybody was naked all the time," another lawmaker said.

Many members of Congress left the 45-minute viewing session early, thereby missing the porno performance by England, but there were enough other images of torture, humiliation and intimidation to sicken anyone...

[LittleApple81]

1. This should be the LEAST shocking pictures/videos. Voluntary promiscuity

is the opposite of torture.

[Paragon]

2. "Voluntary promiscuity" in front of detainees is OK?!?

Read it again.

[loathesomeshrub]

7. But pretty bad to be performed in front of devout Moslems.

Kind of like someone making the pope watch porn.

I was going to say Jerry Falwell, but he'd probably enjoy it

[LittleApple81]

30. My wrong. I did not read the article, just the snippet. Yeah, the

audience was not intended to be the Jerry Falwell type. She (and her partner(s)) really must have hated the prisoners to be willing to do this.

[ParanoidPat]

26. "opposite of torture"?

To YOU perhaps but what if you took a bunch of fundamentalist Christian men who really are devout in their faith, rounded them up from their homes in the middle of the night and held them against their will, put bags over their heads and beat them for days on end while demanding information that they just don't have, and then performed sex acts with multiple partners in front of them threatening to do the same to their wives and daughters because you know where they live and they're not cooperating and they're powerless to do anything to prevent it?

Do you think that they would find those thoughts to be the "opposite of torture"?

That's the kind of ignorant crap I'd expect to hear from Rush so I don't listen to him. I come here instead. That was real sensitive of you.

[aquart]

27. One woman. Multiple males. Voluntary?

Men have such an odd idea of volition.

And, YES! I'm sure she said she wanted it.

All women want to be treated like Kleenex.

Just as I'm coming to believe all men are idiots.

[Paragon]

33. I think you're misinterpreting this a little.

She was seeing one of the other soldiers in the camp and is now carrying his child.

Whether the "sex with multiple partners" was staged for the camera or not, I don't know - but I highly doubt it was rape.

[aquart]

41. I didn't say it was rape. I SAID she consented.

One woman. Multiple males. Anyone's idea of a good time in hell. What possible coercion could there be?

And I'm not misinterpreting a thing.

[City Lights]

45. And you're sure the one she's "seeing" is the father of her child?

How are you sure of that?

[Paragon]

46. It was on the second "60 Minutes II" report.

Please - I don't make shit up on here.

[City Lights]

54. Can they do paternity tests before the baby is born? n/t

[Generator]

56. Yes that damn "slut"

why she outta be I dunno tortured or something?

I would hope the compassion we have for every Iraqi male on the planet on DU could extend to some of the little pathetic souls that have such little options in life that join the giant octupus that is the US Military to be swallowed whole. Something is seriously wrong with this picture, but GUESS WHAT you are only interested in the woman who had sex, what about the MEN she was ingaged with-oh they were just following her sadistic orders.

Damn she's good.

[girl gone mad]

61. I'll go along with you on this one.

Sorry, but putting a young woman into this kind of situation is, for lack of a better analogy, like putting a lamb in a lion's den.

I'm not saying she doesn't have any culpability, just that a woman without much experience and self-esteem will act against her better judgement to be accepted by the men.

[Wickerman]

3. Lynndie E. Poster girl, 'specially selected by the RW as the poster girl

for all that is wrong in Iraq. The wanton hussy was the gang leader for all the depravity, look no further - the private did it.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[aquart]

49. I hope she's got a good defense attorney.

Because suddenly I've gone completely over to her side.

I see a 21 year old girl in with a bunch of men given impossible orders in an irrational situation.

You see a "ho." A thing.

Be so proud.

[Rick Myers]

63. She's probably is a registered Dem!!!

This story is even TOO insane for ME!!!

[0rganism]

4. Damn, what a freaky-weird woman, what a phuking FREAKSHOW!

> "Almost everybody was naked all the time"

MPs. Guarding prisoners. In an Iraqi prison. Run like an S&M nudist colony.

This would be comical if it wasn't so damn tragic.

[leftofthedial]

5. First Clinton's penis and now Lynndie English?

Seems the repugs have to blame privates every time something goes wrong with their plan.

[Pepperbelly]

6. how long before you can buy it on the internet?

[Paragon]

9. I'll pay NOT to see it.

[Pepperbelly]

16. The Not-So-Private England ... it could be a classic... nt

[HuskerDem]

13. Hey pepperbelly, when will your cousin be accepting the VEEP?

Please say soon.

[Pepperbelly]

18. I do not have a clue but ...

I expect that if Kerry asks him, he would answer the call. He always has. I don't expect he's changed.

[Catherine Vincent]

10. "Many members of Congress left the 45-minute viewing session early"

LOL! They probably were getting hot and bothered. I want to know which ones left early! Snicker!

[NoPasaran]

28. A lot of them drifted back in

Seven to twelve minutes later.

[Unperson 309]

65. Reminds me of the Sunshine Soldiers...

a book that came out in the 70's.

Scene: Basic Training, Army Reserve. The Sergeant is showing a "health" film detailing the horrors of VD when...

"Permission to leave, Sir!"

"Leave? Where you goin', Troop?"

"Private needs to go to the latrine, Sir!"

"Why?"

"Private needs to beat off, Sir!"

"...What?! You wisin' me off, Troop?!"

"No, Sir! Private is going to pull his pud, Sir!"

"Well, Hell... Get outta here! But be back in ten minutes!"

"Yes, Sir! Thank you, Sir!"

That was one wild book.

309

[ant]

11. poetic justice, karma, etc.

Imagine, she took part in the humiliation of these people and now there's a chance her own sexual escapades will become public. If those pictures/videos end up getting posted all over the place...well, it would be wrong, I think, but I'd have a hard time being too outraged.

And to be fair, her chain of command should be subjected to the same, though I think having to watch videos/pictures of Rumsfeld having sex would constitute torture.

Ew.

[DAGDA56]

12. She could well make a fortune...if she gets the right agent, and...

...the right lawyer...as perverse as that seems.

[Scairp]

14. So she's a slut, is anyone surprised?

Is she going to try and explain this kind of behavior away by saying making an amateur porn video was something she was ordered to do by someone in a higher rank? Yeah that'll work.

[Blue-Jay]

15. Funniest Lynndie quote on the net so far. (not very PC though)

On another website a guy quoted from the article:

"video of a handcuffed prisoner beating his head against a wall in an apparent bid to knock himself unconscious to escape abuse

If that monkey-faced pile of ugly was naked and fornicating in front of me, I'd be trying to bash my own brains out, too."


Not making light of a horrific situation, but that caught me off guard.

[AlCzervik]

17. i can barely stand looking at her

making that stupid thumbs up sign, i dont even want to think about her having sex, just nasty, she's depraved.

[Paragon]

19. It's a conspiracy!

The officers in question are seen wearing GOLD rings. There are NO bodily fluids on the floor. And Ms. England had a PASSWORD for Huster.com on her computer.

[Kahuna]

20. YIKES!!! This poor ignorant girl is ruined for life.

So tragic.

[Scairp]

25. Say what?

"Poor girl"? How about, the "poor" Iraqis who were at the mercy of these reprobate soldiers? Who cares if her life is ruined; she is the master of her own fate meanwhile those prisoners had no choices in what they were forced to endure. Get a grip Kahuna and save your pity for someone who deserves cause Ms. England sure doesn't.

[Kahuna]

32. Can I feel sorry for everybody?!? Don't preach to me. Because..

I make a statement pitying this girl doesn't not exclude me from pitying the victims of her assault. You don't know me like that.

[Scairp]

38. Preach?

I don't preach to anyone. I think having anything but contempt for this dumb little skank is a waste of time. I am allowed to say so. If you don't like it, well, I guess that's unfortunate. As far as I know I am still permitted to express myself about comments made here. Have the rules changed?

[Kahuna]

40. That's your opinion. If you try to impose your opinion on me..

you are indeed preaching. As a Christian, I was taught to have compassion. I felt sorry for Jeffrey Dahmer as well as his victims. But, that's just me. If you don't like it keep it to yourself. Sorry if that offends you.

[Scairp]

53. ?

I have no clue what you are talking about. How on earth could I "impose" my opinion on you? Do you think I am some kind of mind control person? I am expressing my opinion and if you think that's an imposition perhaps you should read this:

im·pose
v. im·posed, im·pos·ing, im·pos·es
v. tr.
1.To establish or apply as compulsory; levy: impose a tax.
2.To apply or make prevail by or as if by authority: impose a peace settlement.
3.To obtrude or force (oneself, for example) on another or others.

Now that you have the definition, perhaps you would care to amend your post. And as for your suggestion that I keep it to myself, uh, that will NOT happen. I have written nothing against the rule of DU and I can criticize your opinion if I want to as long as I do not do it in an abusive manner or bait or engage in a "flame war". But if you don't like it when someone disagrees with you and tells you so then you must have a hard time getting along in the world.

[aquart]

59. "Master of her own fate"

Because you would have done it differently? Because she had so many options over there in that unit with obviously no supervision?

I am outraged at what happened to those prisoners. WHAT IS STILL HAPPENING.

Obviously, I see something you don't: The humanity of ALL of them.

But go yelling WHORE and SLUT. You do that. Progressive? Liberal? Yeah.

[Scairp]

64. Correct

So you think she had sex ON CAMERA WILLINGLY with another soldier and she's some kind of victim? I see something YOU don't, the truth of the situation. Even a lowly enlisted person like this girl had more power than any prisoner there. Yeah, I think she did exactly what she wanted to do. And YEAH, she made a porn movie is a prison IN FRONT OF THE PRISONERS. What part of this do you not get? I am liberal and unlike the so-called "responsibility party" the pukes claim to be, women must take responsibility when we do something so blantantly wrong and amoral. Did you see her on t.v.? She doesn't appear to be remorseful or have any idea what she did was a crime. It's the "I was just following orders" defense, which, as we all know, doesn't hold water. I have no idea why you all are defending this dumbass. If she were a man you wouldn't hesitate to call all the names you want, but because she's female she is some kind of victim? If she had been forced to do something against her will, such as being raped, then she would be a victim. That is clearly not the case here. What she and her fellow "soldiers" did at that prison is indefensible, IMO. So SORRY if you don't like my opinion. Feel free to press the "ignore" button at any time.

[belle]

67. I won't call her a "slut," as I think "slut" is a perfectly fine word.

I think clearly she's dumber than a box of rocks, and sure, they used her, in the greater scheme of things. Do I feel sorry for her? Not much. But I *am* getting a lot more insight into the workings of war and authoritarianism. I think Wilhelm Reich was more right than enough people gave him credit for: fascism simply could not exist without repression/channeling of the sexual urge.

[Catherine Vincent]

42. It's a shame that she doesn't respect her body.

[starroute]

58. I'm becoming convinced she was abused herself as a child

Everything I'm seeing said about her is things I've read are true of victims of sexual abuse:

Lacking any self-respect.

Equating abuse with affection, and being willing to engage in acts which replicate the original abuse for the sake of attention.

Abusing others.


I've read that many (or most) prostitutes and porn stars come out of a background of abuse. They are willing to continue being abused because it feels normal to them -- it may even make them feel good.

Lynndie England seems to fit that pattern -- and every new lurid detail that comes out fits it even more perfectly.

[formernaderite]

70. You must not know many 21 year olds....things have really changed...

...I have a son who's 20 and has told me stories that paint a picture not far from what Lyndie was up to. Or you're correct and sexual abuse is so rampant that a hell of a lot of college girls are all suffering from it's effects.
Seriously, neither I personally, nor my wife can relate to the crap that goes on now...but alot of young women are under the impression that what we used to call skanky behavior is now power over one's own sexuality.

[aquart]

60. It's a shame her fellow soldiers didn't respect her body.

But, of course, her eagerness to please is their golden opportunity and boys will be boys.

That, of course, is not rape. No, not rape. Not rape at all. Nothing like rape, in fact.

One woman. Multiple males. Options?

[Minstrel Boy]

21. The Abu Ghraib story has been distilled into a titilating freak show.

What chance does soul-searching torture scenes stand against amateur porn loops?

[Paragon]

23. Obviously, we need Ken Starr to look into this.

[northofdenali]

22. At 5 months pregnant and engaged.

Family values, family values.

[Dirk39]

24. Freepers alert: the sexual revolution is back!

I knew that someday, the USA would wake up again. This puritan conservative nightmare couldn't go on forever.
Consensual acts of liberty and freedom are brought to Iraq by American freedom fighters.
Will Iraqi-freedom pretty soon be re-imported into the USA?

Why don't we do it in the road?
Does this mean that Clinton will be pardoned?

In Germany,
Dirk

[Scairp]

31. Wonder how they are spinning this? n/t

[althecat]

29. This story is SO FUCKING WEIRD IT IS GIVING ME A HEADACHE

[AlCzervik]

Oh yeah

puking migraine one at that. Who knew that the great unraveling would be this bad?

[liarliartieonfire]

34. Best Little Whorehouse in Grahib

This is just too efin much!!

Damn kids! Rummy's got to fly half way round the world just to check up on the little snots!

HAAAAAA!
Besmerchin the good name of war.

[killbotfactory]

35. If she wasn't having sex with, or in front of, prisoners who gives a shit?

Seems like a distraction to me.

[Paragon]

36. Read the article.

It says they WERE doing it in front of prisoners.

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[MidwestMomma]

39. Were the sex pics/videos used as dirty recruiting tools by MI/CIA?

Anyone see the ex-CIA guy on 60 Minutes II last night? He was talking about dirty recruiting to explain why the military would take humilating pictures of the prisoners to turn them/get them to talk. He said it's a practice of the CIA, KGB, etc to use blackmail to recruit people to work for them. Not ethical, but that's it is done.

When I heard that, I wondered at the time if part of the purpose of putting the guards in the pics was to blackmail them to stay silent. Now with the disclosure of the videos of sex BETWEEN the soldiers, I'm wondering if the sex pictures/videos were the dirty recruiting tools of Military Intelligence or Other Governmental Agencies(CIA) to blackmail the reservists into performing illegal acts. Would be interesting to know the timeline of the sex pics vs the torture pics.

I'm not saying this excuses their behavior. But it would perhaps explain it in part.

How's that for a theory?

[City Lights]

43. "I don't know how these people got into our Army."

So says Sen. Ben Nighthorse Campbell (R-Colo.).

[riverwalker]

44. Goddess of Rightwingers

Oh, how they must adore her. She represents all they hold dear. She is acting out their entire ideology. Lynndie Englund is the ultimate Neocon. Racist, xenophobic, ignorant, cruel, unjust, psychotic, sadistic, abusive, and dog gone BUTT UGLY.

[Rebellious Republican]

47. Gee I wonder if her family still supports the war and Bush after

all of this? I feel sorry for them, especially if they are Rabid RW Fundies. I guess war is'nt a good thing after all!

[Kahuna]

52. Jerry Springer Show types... I've seen some of her supporters..

from her community. They were very ignorant, redneck, Jerry Springer Show trash, people.

[Rebellious Republican]

57. Thanks, I had not seen nor heard much about them. That fits

I heard some sound bites of her on the news being interviewed. This also explains why the major RW media sources have not used them for propaganda purposes.

[Bluebear]

48. She's a dainty one alright. nt

[osaMABUSh]

50. This shits gotta be on KAZAA or some Napster-like site by now

The JPEGs and MPEGs are probably flying all over the Internet by now.

[ProdigalProfligate]

51. Whadda babe! pant - pant - pant

Wonder how much Flint will pay her to be in his magazine next year?

[riverwalker]

55. Ann Coulter/Lynndie Englund

soul sisters?
or
separated at birth?

[Must_B_Free]

62. 11 years from now, some kid is going to find out

that he/she is the love child of a torture chamber.

How do you like them apples?

[bigbillhaywood]

66. Nooooo...these must be the "even worse" photos Rummy referred to. nt

[Sivafae]

68. I guess this would be as best place to put it

When I was watching the news(abc) the other day, they were talking about the "other films" of soldiers torturing inmates. What they said that was that it pertained to "voyeuristic" and "masochistic" sex. Or at least that is the way I understood it.

I thought to myself, "they got some tapes of the Englund gurl having dirty naughty sex." But I knew it wasn't the full story. And it still isn't.

So easy to blame a naughty gurl.

[RapidCreek]

69. EWWWWWWWWE

RC