Who wants to start a female-friendly democratic board?

[DagmarK]

Every once in a while on DU I will venture into the hornet's nest by trying to point out the sexism on DU.

And though I have received positive reinforcement from both men and women on those threads, I have caught a tremendous amount of grief and backlash from more than a "few" folks (mostly male, but quite a few females have piped in to try to shut me down as being anti-1st amendement, PC police, among other things -- I even was labeled a racist in no uncertain terms).

And the misogynistic crap dies down for a little while (after the token new threads that pop up to shove my 'shit' in my face....all in good fun, of course).

But overall, there is an undercurrent on DU that is no different than sitting in a southern baptist conference.

And, frankly, WE as women and men who genuinely respect women are NEVER going to get ahead unless and until we create the type of community that is 100% intolerant of these attitudes. And we aren't going to accomplish that by working from within the given power structures. We aren't going to change the gender make-up of CONGRESS and our legislatures until we as a neighborhood get our priorities straight.

And this being an incredibly potent year for making the changes we want to see in society, we should hit ALL the bases for the changes we want.

Right now in the USA, there are like 100,000*** rape kits that have not been processed -- meaning...the DNA samples have not gone into the criminal database. Meaning.....the same rapist who just got out of prison after 2 years in for assault may be there very same guy who raped 20 other women in the community. And no one will ever know. It's just a DNA test standing between that guy roaming and free to rape 20 more women and keeping him in prison for the rest of his life.

This is so utterly outrageous. And the people in power (white males) just let this issue ride....... **I assure you that if the rape kits were for men being raped.....they would be processed.

In addition, women are dropping dead at epidemic rates from breast cancer -- and have been for a long time. It's getting worse and worse. I don't know the numbers..... But it doesn't compare to the low numbers of MEN with prostate cancer. Yet......the research dollars for prostate cancer have reaped INCREDIBLE and miraculous advances in the diagnosis of the disease and treatment. (men won't even have to have biopsies very soon because of a some clever test! Yet, women with a lump will continue to be cut upon). Before these advances for prostate cancer diagnosis and treatment came about, the fatality rate for prostate cancer was miniscule in comparison to the fatality rate for breast cancer.

I have a PROBLEM with the priorities in medicine. (and I think many in the gay population understand what I am getting at due to the lack of AIDS funding and research).

Those are just TWO examples regarding the male power structure and its negligence in regard to women. Just two. I could write all day......

The question is: At what point are WOMEN going to stand together AND APART from the male power structure and unify and deal with society as a group? Do we really think that men are just going to "get it" one day? What power group ever just ceded power in the history of man? (See? history even belongs to them!)

This is not a male bashing thread.....so spare me the flames. (Any flamers will NOT get one response from me and will be put on ignore; I am sick of trying to find the light in this dark tunnel of DU).

This is more of a WOMAN bashing thread, quite frankly. Because I want to know when we are going to stop bowing down to the feminist backlash that happened as a result of the all too short women's movement of the 70s. I was 14 in 1976 -- and the world really seemed quite bright for us. Today? We have gone back beyond the 50s mentality. At least in the 50s, the powerful white man felt an OBLIGATION and a responsibility to raise his children and a sense that he HAD to take care of the little woman. Today? Jesus, so many men so concerned about how much MONEY make to determine whether we are a good match for a longterm relationship.

(don't believe me? join an online dating service: essays by men looking for a woman who is financially independent and has a lot of her own interests. Translation: I need someone who will cook, clean, fuck me, enhance my retirement possibilities, and won't take up too much of my time. Well, woop-dee-doo.....what might the woman get out of it?)

This has turned into a rant. Sorry folks! The QUESTION IS: are there women-friendly people on DU who might want to start a democratic message and news board apart from DU -- as a respite, not a replacement. Maybe something great could happen.

Cause.......I was a member of NOW. And was darned proud of it. Got out of college in the mid-80's.....had it on my resume. No problem. But around 1990......when I applied for (and got jobs due to my stunning skill set).....HR administrators would ask me questions that I finally traced back to the reference to NOW membership. They were trying to see if I was GAY. I wasn't married. And I didn't have kids. And I was a member of NOW. Must be a 'dyke'. In 1990, I am sure it would have been acceptable for me to be a dyke.....and they were just curious. In 2003 -- I don't think I would get the job!

This is not the direction of things that I ever dreamed our society would go............. and as women, we have to say the buck stops right here. And if we don't unite.......it's just going to get worse.

And the DU adminstrators -- I am sorry to say -- have very closed minds in regard to SEXISM (against women). They need some sensitivity training! And we as women should not put up with it.

And THAT is why calling Katherine Harris a SLUT is unacceptable; it is a symptom of a grave, grave problem.


**I don't know the number exactly; it's horrific.....it could be 75,000 or 300,000...I will have to research it.

[dorktv]

1. I would join it...I always want to help advance the cause of women...

although I have not seen the sexism towards women, I am kind of new...maybe that is why.

[leftofthedial]

2. I'm a feminist

I'm particularly very sensitive to women's health issues both Mom and Sis with serious women's health problems) and to women being underpaid and marginalized in the workplace.

Do you really believe DU is a sexist environment?

I don't.

[Keithpotkin]

3. i agree

i think those who are sexist on DU should be chastised and penalized, but i dont think leading a separatists movement is the right way to build a community that is not sexist.

[dorktv]

5. I think we all should look to RAWA on how to be better on the inclusive

thing.

[Cha]

4. I never noticed it but I am so into politics that I don't notice any

thing else!

[dorktv]

6. Do you work in politics?

[JitterbugPerfume]

15. I haven't noticed excessive sexism

but then I tend to be a little dense sometimes .

I remember the 1950's

believe me, you don't want to go there

advice I recieved in the 50's


you made your bed, now lie in it (when I told y Pastors wife about physical abuse)

men often joked about keeping the "little woman" bare foot and pregnant

no, You don't want to be comparing now to THEN

[October]

29. You're right

We don't want to go back to the 50s! Some of us weren't yet born, and we only know the revolution of the 60s and 70s, so perhaps ANY change is immediately obvious to us.

(I'm sorry about your physical abuse story.)

[Shanty Oilish]

24. Huh?

Slightly more than half of everybody is female. Discrimination against females is a fact. Misogyny is another one. Don't you find something political in there?

[Eloriel]

12. For a left-of center place, it's VERY sexist

Heartbreakingly sexist. It wouldn't be, of course, if the moderators and most of all Admin didn't allow it. For my money they go beyond allowing -- they enable and facilitate it.

Is it as bad as FreeRepublic? No, of course not. But there shouldn't be ANY sexism tolerate here, just as there shouldn't be any racism tolerated here (and there's far too much of that, as well). IOW, our progressive and liberal brothers -- and too many sisters -- need a much better education on these issues. Won't happen when the sexism and racism are heartily and gladly tolerated.

Eloriel

[wellstone_democrat]

38. boy you hit that issue of facilitation on the head

it is allowed here to a degree that it isn't about race or other categories that slurs can be made in. That one thread today is locked after a massive thread about it starts is telling. DU administrators crush racism while allowing sexism to flourish.

[October]

47. Beyond sexist

It's misogynistic around here on way too many threads.

I'm grateful tonight to see women taking a stand!

:kick:

[FatbackSlim]

7. Cancer rates

For the record, there are about 45,000 annual deaths in the U.S. from breast cancer, and about 40,000 from prostate cancer.

[dorktv]

8. And it is worse when you go with heart diease in women.

Men have a lot of options but women have few.

[FatbackSlim]

10. Possibly

But my point is that the rates are broadly comparable, and neither is an epidemic.

[DagmarK]

22. Okay, lets look at the numbers.....

First of all, the AMA and ACA define SURVIVORSHIP of cancer as having lived exactly 5 years after diagnosis. That means that if you live 5 years plus 1 day, you go into the stats as a SURVIVOR.

Second, most prostate cancer will not spread and is therefore not fatal. So, treatment or not.....survivability is pretty darned high.

Third, most breast cancer IS fatal if left untreated.

Fourth, the most common cancer drug for breast cancer, Tamoxifen, is a LEADING cause of uterine cancer (which, by God, ain't too survivable). And it ain't too survivable if one has already gone through radiation and chemo (cause one's immune system is pretty well compromised). So, one of the over 200,000 women diagnosed with breast cancer this year who undergoes TREATMENT for that breast cancer and lives 5 years and one day.....may very well meet her maker via uterine cancer (and she gets thrown into a whole other cancer stat group, because, afterall, she 'survived' breast cancer).

Fifth, doctors seem to have this fetish with removing a woman's lymph nodes (the best possible defense against future cancer).

I cannot speak to the numbers re prostate cancer, but I can tell you that the movement to CURE it and PREVENT it on the part of the pharmaceutical world and the govtal agencies is impressive -- far more impressive than the attention we see given to breast cancer. And that's the point.

[Clete]

9. I've battled sexism all my life.

Things are better than when I was twenty, but we still aren't all the way there yet. If we retreat into our corner away from the men, then we will be practising purdah as much as if we had a veil thrown over us and told to go sit in the kitchen by our men folk while they entertain their friends in the living room. You have to gain your ground and then fight to keep it.

For all you Washingtonians out there, who remember, there was a law back in the sixties that women could not sit at the bar of a restaurant or even enter a saloon without being escorted by a gentleman and it was the law. The Polo Lounge at the Beverly Hills Hotel had a policy that women could not sit at the bar without being escorted by a man well into the seventies. It was not law but policy.

The first gutsy women who challenged these laws and policies were called all kinds of names, but they gave back as good as they got. No you have to face them and tear down these prejudices and infringements on our rights brick by brick, issue by issue.

Sorry, but there will be no purdah for me.

[Eloriel]

16. No, no, no, no, Clete

There's a big difference between "retreating" out of some weakness and withdrawing to draw strength from one another.

I don't OWE anyone my presence or even attention. Put another way: freedom of association is one of our inalienable rights as Americans, remember?

From my experience, the most empowering and spiritually strengthening times of my life have been those in the company of women, only women, strong and feminist women. Doesn't have a lot to do with "inclusion" or "exclusion" as the terms are usually used. It has to do with sisterhood. Most of us spend plenty of time in the company of men, whether we want to or not -- and in fact, MORE than we want to. Women-opnly groups are refreshing and re-energizing, at minimum.

Eloriel

[Clete]

23. No argument from me there, but

my understanding of this poster was that since the big bad boys pull our pigtails every now and then because we want to use the playground too, that we should go somewhere else to play. We have as much right here as them and if they don't really know that calling Katherine Harris a slut is sexist, then we need to stay to point it out to them as NSMA already did. We do more good for women's rights if we don't give ground.

No I agree, there is nothing like a community of women sharing ideas and I guess the guys have their locker rooms too to bond, but they can't own the whole place.

[synthia]

27. withdrawing to draw strength from one another

isn't that what DU supposed to be about?

we come here to escape the freeps.

now we leave to escape the creeps?

not me. bush won't chase me to Canada either.

[SharonAnn]

18. Laughing! Yes, I had that happen to me in 1969-1970

I was on a business trip to Chicago and meeting the others in my group at the hotel. We agreed to meet in the bar at 7 PM to go to dinner.

You guessed it, I was the first one there and was asked to leave. "No unescorted ladies" was the rule. It was humiliating. Like a woman in a business suit was a problem.

So, I stood in the lobby and waited. Gathered the group as they arrived and we went somewhere else, when we got there I explained what happened.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

11. I'm a woman and a feminist...

and I am just fine here.

[Terwilliger]

44. Sure you're fine here...

but those that cross you end up as cold-cuts :scared:

:D

[Ramsey]

13. An informative but misguided post

You're being a bit over the top I think. I consider myself a staunch feminist. I am very active in groups like Emily's List. However, I think the problems at DU are the work of a few unenlightened boors. Guess what, it's a big wide world and even among liberals there are some sexist jerks.

I know the administrators are trying very hard to balance the needs and wishes of various groups with the difficult task of allowing people to speak freely. I totally dispute your contention that the admins are closed minded, nothing could be further from the truth. These guys are my friends, and they are some of the most open-minded and fair-minded men I know. I think you should direct your anger towards the perpetrators, not the people who make this place exist.

Personally, when the experiment in GD took place earlier this week, I strongly supported it. I believe that any subject worth discussing warrants at least 5 sentences that are constructed without profanity or excessive punctuation. And without derogatory terms, whether they are sexist, bigoted, homophobic, etc. But just look at how much grief the admins were given over a few civilizing rules that were a temporary experiment.

DU has some of the greatest, most open-minded, most intelligent, kindest and committed men I have had the pleasure to encounter. The same goes for the women here. Let's not let a few bad apples spoil the barrel. We don't need another board. We need to try to educate those who think their precious freedom to curse and demean is more important than other people's feelings and the general quality of discourse. Maybe as nsma suggested, we simply need to police their threads outrselves, with consistent reminders of how their tendancy to use derogatory language does not create a compelling dialogue.

Mainly, we need to get ourselves organized to oust the Bush Junta, which is why we are all here to begin with, right?

On edit: By the way, your statements about cancer are totally incorrect. The rates of prostate cancer and breast cancer are very similar, the death rates from breast cancer are decreasing, and the funding for breast cancer research has increased significantly in the past decade. I can give you specific numbers when I get to work tomorrow if you like. There have been no miraculous advances in prostate cancer treatment, although there is an effective blood test for screening. However, many men do still require very aggressive surgery or radiation for their prostate cancer, and the death rate is not falling significantly. Mammography and other screening studies for breast cancer are very effective. In addition, there are a number of noninvasive tests for both screening and treatment in development for breast cancer. Given your hyperbole on this topic, it is hard to take any of your points to seriously.

[Eloriel]

19. I can tell you first-hand that they are very close-minded on this subject

And I don't care whose friend you are.

They allow and in some cases encourage (by their complicity) the sexism that goes on here -- and it frankly doesn't matter if it's "a few unenlightened boors" or scads of them. Few of them EVER get called on their stuff, despite the fact that sexism IS (supposedly) against DU rules.

Your friends the Admin don't have a particularly enlightened -- or even educated -- understanding of what sexism is AND aren't willing to listen to those who DO know.

I also don't think participation in Emily's list is the end-all and be-all of feminist credentials. But it's a start, I suppose.

Eloriel

[DagmarK]

30. I am assuming you are female???

You seemed to omit that and it *is* relevant.

I hope to GOD that you are not female.....because, dear Ramsey, you are the biggest part of the problem: women aiding and abetting misogyny.

So patronizing......

You don't think that diagnosing breast cancer with a BLOOD test instead of a biopsy might be possible in the realm of science? That's a pretty astounding advance in prostate cancer diagnosis. I refer you to my comment on breast cancer further up the thread re NUMBERS.

but hell...you aren't taking me seriously because you are FRIENDS with some dudes who actually hold the keys that can help shape the community and who choose not to use those keys. So be it......

And I never suggested anyone just ABANDON DU. Quite the opposite. Eloriel seems to get it; re-read her posts.

[sandnsea]

49. Did I miss the fund prostate cancer research campaign?

I didn't notice men had to actually get together and fight to get the research and treatment funding to address the disease.

Women did. That's the difference.

[DagmarK]

51. Yeah, never saw the city shut down for a RACE for a prostate cure!

And that's the point!

[MoonAndSun]

14. I came to DU because I needed to vent my frustrations with

politcally like-minded liberals, Dems, Progressives, etc, over the takeover of my country by the rightwingers. And I have found that here even though I am not able to visit DU and contribute as much as I wish I could.

What I have seen today on DU is another reason why I enjoy DU. We are allowed to air all of our thoughts, frustrations, sadness, joy and all of our various emotions here on DU. We are not robots, like the freepers, we all do have our own thoughts and opinions, likes and dislikes, friends and enemies.

I can see why you might want to start another board, Dagmark. But for me, I will stay and continue to help fight the good fight. The reason we are all here is to get our country back from bush* and his evil henchmen.



MoonAndSun

[unfrigginreal]

17. Dagmark, would it be acceptable to have a different opinion?

I'm not trying to start a fight but I've always questioned whether or not some of our personal convictions get in the way of gaining broadbased support.

I don't personally feel the revulsion that you obviously do when someone uses the terms slut or bitch. But then, I am not a woman. I am gay though and I can tell you that fag, queer, pansy, etc. get alot of my brethren riled up but don't bother me in the least. I'm more interested in being accepted first, even if it means that I'm accepted as a fag, queer, pansy.

To me, fighting over nomenclature detracts from the bigger issues at hand.

[DagmarK]

33. Of course. Not only acceptable, but expected (and respected)

for you to have an opposing opinion.

No problem.

This is something that has been on my mind for a long time, and judging from some other threads today, it seemed the opportunte time to say something.

I don't expect all women on this board to just jump ship.....

But if there is a decent number who respond positively to my suggestion, then all the power to us! And other women are free to come and go as they wish.

[roughsatori]

34. They are not accepting you if they are referring to you as a fag or pansy

You wrote: "I'm more interested in being accepted first, even if it means that I'm accepted as a fag, queer, pansy" A sign you are not being accepted is when members of the "dominant" culture refer to you with derogotory language that is primaryily used when adressing members of the "target" culture. I think that is the point cetain DUers are trying to make.

Among some of my gay male acquaintances I have noticed a refusal to abandon sexist language, as if it is clever or witty.

Some women mention being angry about a word and are told: "I don't care if people call me that", or "Men are men, and women are women, and we will never understand each other." Both statements discount the original poster.

Some people think freedom of speech means not being told what a moran theri speech proves them to be. (Please don't think I am referring to you unfrigginreal.)

[alaine]

20. Sexism is not real, we're just making it up...

OR it is real, but that's only because women really are naturally inferior.

I love ya, Dagmark.

I'm pretty disturbed by all this talk of p.c. ism, because it seems to me what the folks have done is started a movement and recruited minorities, like blacks and women, to join (I'm mainly talking about groups in the sixties like Students for a Democratic Society, etc.) to increase their numbers, but now we are in a period where we seem to be getting the message "um, we really weren't serious about all that revolution crap, we got what WE wanted, so um, can you people just shut up and go away now...".

Sonia Johnson wrote that revolution is just an exchange of power from father to son. I'm inclined to agree. Of course when the revolution is going on, reinforcements are needed, but afterwards when the sons are in power, they seem to forget alot of names. When people's prejudices are pointed out, they can either do one of two things; either take it into consideration and own what is really true, or (the more fashionable) deny it and accuse the whistle blower of some ridiculous pasted together prejudice like reverse racism or man-hating (or -bashing). Such is the world we live in.

I don't take D.U. for any kind of microcosm, it is clearly a top-down self cloning demographic. On most days I prefer to chalk up the unclaimed isms as ignorance, but I mostly stay in LBN.

I'd love for there to be a femist democratic board, but I don't know how you'd do it on the web, when so many men would lie about their identities and disrupt.

I have been quite shocked at some of the hatred and vitriol coming from (some) men on this board when feminist issues are brought up, I mean if something is amusingly low in veracity then why the strong emotional responses. And then there are the mocking types who jump in and make jokes (not) in response to topics like this, which is just another form of anger however well disguised.

Thanks for the topic, interesting to think about.

[MuseRider]

21. Very nice rant!

I will try not to get started here with my own. I must say that I tend to ignore those kinds of comments and I should not. I am a bit older than you, will be 50 this year, and have been very disturbed by the trends I am seeing. More women doing the giggling and squirming and leaving the "big" decisions to the men always sitting with them because we could not abide a show with just women. I also abhor the TV "news" shows where the women do the fashion and hollywood and then tease the man about it, goodness knows he has important things to think about. Times seem to be going backwards. I was raised by neandrathals as far as women go, girls don't need to drive or go to school etc. and I do not want it to go back to that. EVERY issue is male oriented these days except for the brainless flotsam that we entertain ourselves with. THAT is just the lightweight stuff, you have covered some of the more important issues quite nicely. I do not appreciate the name calling but I can't say that I might not have done the same. It seems like a small issue but you are right on to be worried, this is how it starts. It makes us smaller in everyones eyes just a little at a time and then things start to change. I do however feel that most or at least many of the men here are supportive and whenever you join a large group there will be several who will always put a crimp in the flow. I think it might be more productive to stay and fight it rather than let it go on without us. You know how men are when we are not there to defend ourselves (NOT ALL OF YOU just a few). It would be nice to have a womens group as well. I will pay more attention and join you in calling it out. Thanks for bringing this up.

[October]

25. Thank you for this post

I've commented on rape threads, women's issues, etc. Remember the Stonehenge story? The thread was filled with mysogynistic comments. So depressing. It's discouraging to think even liberal (DU) men do not value women, and/or have so little respect for our issues.

Not all men of course -- but a great many more than I would've thought lurk here.

I'm a vibrant, sexy woman -- an artist -- and I love men. I just don't get why so many guys have such hateful, negative, ugly things to say about females.

[Shanty Oilish]

26. I'd be there, but would also like more sensitivity on DU

Or a clarification of why things as-they-are are ok. As has often been stated, slurs against African-Americans and gays are not tolerated---by policy; yet analogous slurs against women are not prohibited. I'd like to see this matter addressed in policy, one way or the other.

[October]

28. Yes!

Is it me, or has it gotten uglier around here?

I've noticed the "Cowboy" attitude in public too -- lots of disrespect which seems to be filtering down directly from the unelected one.

Everyone's as rude as Rush, Hannity, and O'Reilly now.

[DagmarK]

43. Ugliness just pervades our entire society.......

regardless of gender, color, sexual orientation.

People have totally gone off the deep end where it concerns how we respond and treat each other. A bunch of rushes and hannitys all around us. I am not nearly as nice as I used to be......

I think it's because our country's leadership is setting the tone for how we treat others (whether it be our neighbor or another country or another religious group).

Remember that group of high schoolers up in that Chicago suburb? The seniors basically hazed the juniors at the end of the year. And it got so totally out of hand...smearing feces on the girls and beating them up and all sorts of heinous things?

And the attitude of the kids doing it and their parents after the fact was just appalling. They didn't really see anything wrong with what had happened. "we do this every year...I got hazed last year and this year it's my turn." And they kicked the seniors out of the prom....so the parents pool money and made a glamorous prom for the ousted...

No conscience. No remorse. No penalties (to speak of). The kids weren't expelled.....so they didn't lose their college choices.

WTF has gone wrong here?

And at that same time.....Bully Bush was treating the French like dirt...it was the heyday of french bashing. Those kids didn't act any different than the leaders of our country. Therein lies the problem.

It's so ironic that the Bush 1 labled his campaign and reign: A Kinder Gentler America. We need to really run for cover when a repuke comes out saying s/he is looking for "an all inclusive america" cause it will mean unimaginable division in our society.

[Karenina]

55. Boys throwing rocks at ducklings

then beating up the man who admonished them (Vancouver, coupla weeks ago). Kids feeding Alka-Seltzer-laced bread to seagulls, *dauphins stuffing frog butts with firecrackers, then lighting them...

The stuffed *puppet masquerading as "leader of the 'free' world PERFECTLY REPRESENTS the values propagandized Americans have adopted. There is a kind and gentle America, but these days ya gotta dig DEEP for it. Sie zeigen nur MACHT, Besserwisserei und Blödsinn. "WE CAN so WE DO." And a VERY SICK _________(fill in the blank) mentalität to boot. "OURgodstate" said it, I believe it, that settles it. Yo wit us o' agin us. Hatfields and McCoys, I/P=P/I, White as rice, black as night... Americans have become incredibly polarized under the reign of the self-proclaimed "*uniter." And lookee da westward, hier kommt AAA! Ah-nuld's Austrian Anschluss. Riding high in the saddle in his semi all over the Interstate. This is the WORST movie I've ever seen. STOP PRODUCTION AND GET THAT WRITING CREW BACK IN HERE NOW.

The dominant culture is finally getting a taste of the divide and conquer poison American Jews have dealt with for such a long time. For all those who consider the "other" monolithic, a BIG FAT BIRD!

This all sucks the raw, infected root. Yeah, it's so over the top you gotta laugh- it would be fucking hysterical if (conservatively) 2-3 BILLION lives did not hang in the balance. This is to say nothing of our collective environmental and "financial" health. Meine ficken Fresse. :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:

[salin]

36. shhhh

your just having a hissy fit, don't you know? ;-) (Have seen that response today... interesting that one stand firm thread - that is indeed a bit in the face... spawns so MANY threads. What is that message?)

[DagmarK]

46. Yeah, and to think I am not even on the R_____!!

Just wait!

LOL

(yeah, I saw the catch-all "women are hysterical" shot)

[SyracuseDemocrat]

31. Why does everything have to be,

so.... divisive, that's the word I'm looking for.

[Clete]

39. Well, since you used the word divisive from the root word

"to divide". I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that when the proverbial prosperity pie is divided, it isn't in equal pieces so that those of us who are left with small pieces or crumbs tend to be unhappy and I guess divisive.

[SyracuseDemocrat]

32. Oh, and I would start the board,

if I had the bandwith and servers for it.

[sandnsea]

35. Agree, but could feminists respect mothers please

That's my biggest gripe in this regard. I've seen horrible posts on this board about moms and wives. Feminism is about respecting women and women are the childbearers and that's a fact. We didn't need to become just like men in order to win the feminist battle, we needed to have women respected for our own qualities and contributions, one of those being child bearing and motherhood.

While I agree that any individual woman ought to be able to do anything she wants to do; box, play football, fight in the army, become a CEO; it doesn't mean that women must become more male-like to be respected as equal. Watch the women in the Parliament in Britian, you don't see them all in suits like our female representatives in Congress.

And thanks for reminding me of the rape kits, there is so much to keep up with and that one just slipped my mind. Makes me so angry at myself. Let's get back on that and get the funding.

[salin]

40. I agree

and coming of age just after the big women's lib movement - but after the first group through (that really had to struggle hard with the division you see) - I am so proud of the women I have come through adulthood with. Mothers, Professionals, Activists, Artists and all sorts of combinations thereof. Many frieds have taken the "mom" route - at least for a number of years while their kids were young. Perhaps there is more backlash than I see (not being in that role) that makes it seem as though some are hostile. I agree - they shouldn't be. The whole thing is about opening doors, options, validating whatever choice one makes but having choices to make.

[October]

41. Stonehenge

We should name any pro-female site for the ancient grounds recently discovered to represent female genitalia.

"..it doesn't mean that women must become more male-like to be respected as equal."

Right on, Sandnsea.

[DagmarK]

50. I am with you all the way sandsea.......

I don't think anyone should be any more male or female-like than they want.

Shoulder pads came into fashion when I entered the professional world. Everyone had shoulder pads in their blouses and suits and dresses. I kind of went along with that for a few years.....

And finally, I was all......WHY on earth do I want to mask the fact that I have very slender shoulders (that are quite stunning in combo with the rest of my body frame)?

And it dawned on me......to be properly dressed in this professional world, they want me to mimick a guy! Screw that! And off to Goodwill I sent lots of clothes. I dress for my frame and my coloring and whatever else applies to make me feel comfortable in my own skin -- as a person.

And I NEVER wear suits anymore! Okay...on occasion I will...but there has to be a GOOD reason for it (like a fortune 500 male client is coming in and it doesn't kill me to play the part).

No.......we do not have look like, act like, perform like men........

(and ya know......they can put a man on the moon, but they will NEVER figure out how to birth babies: the greatest miracle ever performed! And look how hard they are TRYING with all the cloning stuff......)

[Topper_Halo]

37. Could we keep it female only somehow?

These allegations of sexism at DU disturb me. I haven't been part of the DU community for very long, but my observations in life have taught me that just because one is in a left leaning environment doesn't guarantee a sexist free environment.

Some liberal men (or some that claim to be) are very sexist. Just look at the well qualified woman candidate Carol M. Braun...she gets zero attention from the male dominated sexist media, and DU posters here don't even acknowledge her existence many times. She should just get out of the race they say, she doesn't have a chance they say. WHY DONT THE SAY WHEN IS CAROL M. BRAUN GOING TO GET A CHANCE TO SHOW HER MESSAGE!?

It's because of the fear of a sophisticated woman being in control. Men tremble in fear of it, and some of the men at DU are no exception.

We <b>must</b> support this woman and make her our party's nominee.

And as far as the new message board, if it can be made to be for woman only, then I would support it!

[Terwilliger]

42. stay here...kick da menz to the curb

If the women left, so would I...what would be the point?

[KG]

45. yea, really!

i'm only here to hook up with those hot liberal chicks anyway!

:)

(covers head, runs for door...)

[samsingh]

48. let's now divide ourselves any more

[grasswire]

54. I gotta say....

....that the few times I have ventured into the forum I saw several apparent females yowling in heat and talking about horniness and hoping a man could hop a plane there, right now. So isn't the argument about sexism kind of weird in a site where (some) women use sexuality to get some cyber attention?

(FWIW, I'm a woman. And not particularly interested in this kind of battle on a board faced with four more years of Bush misogyny.)

[Skinner]

52. I'm locking this thread.

I think we need a rest from this discussion.

ON EDIT: I'd also like to point out that I locked the "Katherine Harris is a slut" thread an hour and a half before this thread was even started. Not sure if that makes any difference, but I think it's worth pointing out.

Skinner
DU Admin

[Woodstock]

53. How about a women's corner forum in DU?

(I guess they'd need a man's corner too, to be fair - although I see the whole place as the men's corner.)

It would be a place where we could regroup and support each other. The nice guys here support us, but sometimes it gets ridiculous with the ones who won't allow us a modicum of dignity without acting childish about it. All they had to do was think of all the injustices women have borne through history, and just been big about it and said, OK, we'll be more careful about calling people sluts. But NOOOOOOO.