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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 09:14 AM
Original message
Videos exist of satanic ritual abuse committed by US military and mercs.
Law enforcement is aware but being prevented from making arrests.
Trust me on this rumor that has many legs.

NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.
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seventhson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
1. Got links
it helps the legs to move and kick!


Hi Bob!!! :hippie:
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. No, If I were a spy I'd work HUMINT not SIGINT.
But something tells me with your connections you can check it out-also many military families are aware of this as both victims and perps.
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Alerter_ Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #4
19. 911, Offit Airforce Base, Warren Buffet, Bush, Sex Torture
Just throwing this one out there...

http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:R-zFOeD0fHsJ:www.b...

Consider the case of Craig Spence, a behind-the-scenes Republican powerbroker in Washington. In June of 1989, the Washington Times published a story that sent shock waves across Capitol Hill. It seems that Spence had been operating a call-boy ring that supplied young boys, some of them very young boys, to the Washington elite of both political parties.

It was also alleged that the ring was part of a CIA sexual blackmail operation, gathering compromising evidence on Washington politicos and foreign dignitaries. Also connected to the case were prominent figures in the media; on the guest lists for Spence's `parties' were names such as Ted Koppel and Eric Severeid.

Spence's mansion was found to be overflowing with surveillance equipment, including hidden cameras and microphones and an abundance of two-way mirrors.

Elsewhere in the country, a Republican operative named Larry King was embroiled in another high-level pedophile ring. King, whose operation was based in Omaha, Nebraska, had connections to Craig Spence as well as to Ronald Reagan, George Bush, Oliver North, and various other major players in Washington.

The story first began to emerge with the collapse of the Franklin Community Credit Union run by King, one of many such entities that went belly-up in the 1980s Savings and Loan scandals. A special senate 'Franklin Committee' was formed to look into allegations of financial improprieties, but soon found itself instead investigating claims of child rostitution, child pornography and ritual homicide.

The investigation soon led to some of the most powerful men in the state of Nebraska, including newspaper publisher Harold Andersen (a lunch partner of George Bush), a judge, the mayor of Omaha, the city's Games and Parks Commissioner, a prominent attorney, the former police chief of Omaha, and multi-billionaire Warren Buffet (for whose son King sponsored a political fund-raiser).

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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Here's a thread you should see, Alerter, from last September,
Edited on Thu May-13-04 11:35 AM by Minstrel Boy
with links to the supressed "Conspiracy of Silence" documentary of the Franklin scandal:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Discovering this story, and then going on to read John DeCamp's "The Franklin Cover-Up," opened my eyes to the kind of radical evil we're confronting in the Bush years, that had been nestling for decades in the bosom of the National Security State. It's like Paris says in "What Would You Do?": "Dont be surprised, these is devils that Im talkin bout."

And welcome, Alerter! :hi:
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. You beat me to it...
I was gonna post that thread as well.
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #19
32. Also see Paul Bonacci
and Johnny Gousch (The first milk carton kid)
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Alerter_ Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #32
67. Michael Jackson just busted, now has NATION OF ISLAM
as his "security guards". Local police? have "tons" of evidence, including photographs, videos, and genetic material.
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Alerter_ Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #4
27. why HUMINT not SIGINT?
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #27
34. If I were a spy-I'm not, just an American citizen that uses open source
info to try to make sense of the administration of George W. Bush aka The War President and his "shadow government".

NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.
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shooga Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
66. Virtual Govern't by Alex Constantine
check out:
Virtual Government
CIA Mind Control Operations in America

by Alex Constantine



http://apacorp.freeyellow.com/index4.html

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MSgt213 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
2. I afraid the Mercs are. You can't send them in with no laws applying and
then try to hold them accountable. It will get kick out of court.
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
3. Is this a joke?
Because, if so, you absolutely ruin your credibility with me.

There's enough rape, sadistic torture and possibly murder going on at the hands of Americans in many prisons in Iraq and Afghanistan, that pictures of Army guys wearing black robes and sacrificing goats wouldn't even phase me.

But making far-fetched accusations, just because we are all overwhelmed by the mounting pornographic, depraved, news that comes about every day because we have a moranic psychopathic chimpanzee as pResident is not very helpful.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Absolutely no joke, law enforcement is being prevented from making arrests
No body can talk about this for the record, at present-military families have made reports, suggest that lead be followed up.

I'm no bullshitter.

NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Okay.
I believe you. I just wish these military families with evidence would quit trying to go through proper channels and would mail the tape directly to Congress or CBS or some other media outlet that would get it out there. If there is evidence I want to see it (well, not mutilations...can't watch those).

Where the hell are the impeachment papers? Why are the Dems such lily-livered appeasers! Where the hell is Nancy Pelosi and Hillary when assholes like Lieberman and all the repukes say "forced sex" is being conducted when in reality that is known as RAPE...R.A.P.E....RAPE?
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #6
33. "Why are the Dems such lily-livered appeasers!"
"Where the hell is Nancy Pelosi and Hillary when assholes like Lieberman and all the repukes say "forced sex" is being conducted when in reality that is known as RAPE...R.A.P.E....RAPE?"

Excellent, excellent questions.

Why aren't more people asking them?

Call 1-877-762-8762. *Ask them* why they won't call it what it is - rape.
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Alerter_ Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #33
50. Has Justice Souter been seen in public since he was attacked?
anyone know?
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Selwynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #5
13. Either put up or .... you know....
Why should I believe you? Put up some evidence.

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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #13
22. Call a Senator or two or decent law enforcement-don't take my word
or anyone else's in this thread-join me in demanding that all the Pentagon's material be released.
Let law enforcement do it's job openly.

NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.
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Alerter_ Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #3
14. Michael Jackson got away with it for so long - now the NATION OF ISLAM
is providing Michael Jackson with "security" as soon as he was arrested, and PHOTOS SEIZED from his compound.

Imagine a blackmail ring...
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
7. Isn't this standard operating procedure?
In the early 1980s Lt Col Michael Aquino conducted a black magic rite at Wewelsburg Castle, mystical home of the SS, then went on to be implicated in a child abuse scandal at the Presidio and a Nebraska call-boy ring which was linked to Offutt Air Force base.

Meanwhile, he co-authored a military paper titled "From PsyOp to MindWar" with Col Paul E. Vallely, currently military analyst for Fox News.

Aquino and Vallely wrote that MindWar "states a whole truth that, if it does not now exist, will be forced into existence by the will of the United States.... Hitler's stance at Munich might be cited.... Coercive measures used by the operative, consequently, must not be detectable by ordinary means.... MindWar should take full advantage of such phenomena as atmospheric electromagnetic activity, air ionization, and extremely low frequency waves."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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Alerter_ Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. sounds crazy, except ...
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. "Crazy" is part of the "process"-just like "no sense makes sense"
Welcome to DU, Alerter!
:hi:
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jokerman93 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. Aquino is cultist who happened to be in the military at one time
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #10
18. It's a bit more than that, Col. Michael Aquino contributed a lot to the
culture of US Army MI and the Defense Intelligence Agency, PSYOPS, Special Forces etc. When he wasn't doing National Security stuff he ministered to all that would listen as a Church of Satan priest.

In fact, Col. Michael Aquino was involved in a power struggle within the Church of Satan when not involved with National Security work-he wound up being the founder of the Church of Satan's replacement, Aquino's Temple of Set, in 1975 while listed on active duty. This spread worldwide.

I believe Aquino was active in the illegal Operation CHAOS in 1969. I have personal knowledge about that, so do many others seeking justice.
Both he and his wife, Lillith, were implicated in The Presidio molestation case, neither were charged.

Here is some darkside history about the culture of US Army MI, PSYOPS, DIA, CIA-well gosh, the same folks involved in the crimes at Abu Ghraib COME OUT OF A CULTURE SHAPED BY REAL NAZIS, ORGANIZED CRIME, MERCENARIES-A CULTURE OF DEATH.

Temple of Set Statement to the US Armed Forces (see Temple of Set)
http://www.nightspell.dhs.org /

Temple of Set history
http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/satanis...

http://www.disinfo.com/archive/pages/dossier/id163/pg1 /

Allegations of Nazi/fascist ideology in Temple of Set "refuted"
http://www.necronomi.com/magic/satanism/fascist.set.txt

PSYOPS: The "Temple of Set" and mob psychology
http://www.answers.google.com/answers/main?cmd=threadvi...

So, you see, it's a bit more than what you've been programmed to say imho and life experiences.

NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.
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jokerman93 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #18
25. Don't get me wrong
Edited on Thu May-13-04 12:28 PM by jokerman2004
I'm familiar with the whole history of this, but to suggest that Satanism is a body of knowledge that was drawn from to enhance the psy-ops of the US military MI apparatus, is, to me, a kind of mask and a red herring.

I served in U.S. Army Special Ops (S.F.) as an MI operative for 6 years during the nineties and have associations in COS that go all the way back to my college days in the seventies.

COS is primarily cultural theater with Nietzchian overtones. It's guerilla culture -- outsider stuff -- and is largely dependent on antithesis to Christianity for its legitimacy. Aquino's "mysticism" is a frankentein of psychology, NLP, left-hand path mysticism, tantra, chaos magick, science fiction, and theater.

You don't have to go any further than psychological research sponsored at major universities, tested in the field during wartime, cults formed and studied by the CIA, and the successful methods of mob control and terror employed by history's great tyrants, to learn everything you need to know about this kind of psy-ops "control".

Call it Satanism if you like. Dress it up like a halloween party, if it gives you a thrill. But I say tear off the psuedo-mystical mask -- There is hard science behind it all.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #25
39. Yes, things like the reversal of Abe Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs
theory, chemical and electronic dissolution of memory, etc.

FWIW I'm aware of the distinctions in pagan, Wiccan and other religions. Most are not pragmatic or negative and are practiced by Americans under our Constitutional freedoms. But "do what thou wilt" is not the law of our nation when it comes to crime.

I'm not a fundamentalist Christian witchburner-I believe I lost a lot of friends since Operation CHAOS in 1969 and I personally know of cover-ups of crimes invoking "national security"-I also know that I'm not alone. Read some of the other posts in this thread.

Surely we agree that murderers, rapists and torturers cannot go unpunished regardless of position or authority? I'm sure you had some exposure to the culture that includes criminals in MI and would want these "bad apples" prosecuted too, right? We should see all the evidence-agreed?

NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.
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jokerman93 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #39
44. Bob
Edited on Thu May-13-04 01:56 PM by jokerman2004
I appreciate where you're coming from, I do, but your understanding of the Law of Thelema: "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law" is woefully unexamined and (ironically) literalist -- even fundamentalist in nature.

The "will" spoken of in Crowley's Thelemic law is the inherent and unique divine will of each sovereign created being. The belief is that through magickal discipline (which is a western parallel to eastern yogic discipline), one may gradually come to a knowledge of their own true will, and then live in accordance with that will.

If all beings lived in accordance with their inherent will, none would interfere with the orbit of another's life. It very much suggests a condition of non-interference which is almost Buddhist in character. You are misinformed and unread on this point at the very least.

I say this respectfully Bob, and encourage you to attempt a more scholarly approach to the occult material you refer to as a basis for your arguments.

The correct and complete wording of the occult philosophy of will follows:

"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Love is the law, love under will...So with thy all; thou hast no right but to do thy will. Do that, and no other shall say nay. For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."

Liber Al vel Legis

(sorry about my typos and spelling mistakes, spellchecker craps out my posting for some reason on this computer.)
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. jokerman2004, I'm a Christian with a half-Jewish nephew whom I love.
I'm in the Judeo-Christian culture but not a fundie, my wife was a Wiccan High Priestess.

For me, though, it was encountering PSYOPS in the illegal Operation CHAOS in 1969 under the Huston Plan approved by President Richard M. Nixon that shaped some of my opinions and observations. I too am a veteran, of sorts.

I looked at a lot of spiritual stuff when I was agnostic and young.

NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.
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jokerman93 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. Good for you Bob
The journey hasn't been easy for any of us. I've just learned to be extremely careful about demonizing. In my life, I have been the subject of a literal witch hunt and terrible slander that effected my livelihood and personal relationships for many years, because of knee-jerk demonizing.

We must not fall into the trap of mistaking appearances for the truth. I agree that horrendous crimes have been commited in the name of religion - Christian, pagan, occult -- all. But demonizing is the oldest form of hate deflection and projection. Psychological operators understand this dynamic. It is used to instill fear only. It is not real. The brute reality is the moral bankruptsy of our system.

My argument is that "Satanism" which has never existed as an organized tradition of any kind -- is the ruse.
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Alerter_ Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-04 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #25
111. "hard science behind it all"
Thanks for that post, I'm inclined to agree with you. I also agree we don't want to get diverted into any red herrings, misdirections, and disinformation. Please continue to post your opinions.
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #18
35. This explains the government-supplied Black Mass transit
Most of my troops went to the Defense Language Institute at the Presidio of Monterey, CA.

One day we were drinking beer and discussing screwed-up things we'd seen in the army, and one of them told about the "signs" on the bulletin boards in the trainee barracks at the Presidio.

"What signs?"

"The ones that said 'because the leadership of the Defense Language Institute is committed to religious diversity and tolerance for all cultures, bus transportation to Black Mass runs at this-and-such time from these bus stops.'"

We used to crack jokes about one of my troops being a Satanist because he listened to satanic music all the time, he wore black lipstick off duty (this before women started wearing it) and all his civvies were black. (My battalion commander had me eat lunch with him one day. "You know Specialist Jones is really fucking weird, right?" 'Yeah, but he's basically harmless.' "What do you plan to do about him?" (Shrugging) 'So long as he only holds Black Masses outside on the concrete so he doesn't burn the barracks down and he doesn't report for work in black lipstick, nothing.' The colonel thought that was a good plan.) Turns out he really was one, and this is where he got into it. Now understand, it pissed the chaplain off to no end that we were harboring a Devil Worshipper, but this chaplain was such an anti-Catholic fundie that the colonel (a good Vatican II Catholic) wound up trading him in for a rabbi.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #35
41. Thanks for sharing your experiences and serving our nation.
NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.
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jokerman93 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
9. Satanic my eye!
From day one, this grotesque war has been prosecuted in the name of God and Christ from sea to shining sea. The blood-thirsty cult hypocrites who think Bush and his holocaust are appointed by God, better take a good hard look at themselves, because the shitstorm backlash belongs to them.

Any crypto-mystical bullshit that happens in all this has their name on it. They own this blood orgy.


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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Wonder if that's where
that "Great Satan" meme came from... ;-) :freak:
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-04 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #9
85. Well said and absolutely right!
The only "satan" that can be blamed for the Hell on Earth in Iraq and elsewhere is the one in the WH right now!
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-04 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #85
86. My point in starting this thread is that law enforcement has been
held up in the prosecution of horrific crimes by abuse of the National Security classification system and conspiracy by cultists known to law enforcement. SRA and serial killers, for starts.
It is MKULTRA related stuff.

NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.
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Az Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
15. Um could you clarify that
Satanic ritual is the boogy man of American culture. Are you stating that there is a Satanic cult operating in American Military heirarchy? Or are you saying that they used simulated satanic rites to torture Iraqi prisoners?
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Alerter_ Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. simulated rites? Why not
We have documents in the public domain that suggest it. There have been rumors about it since Bush I/Reagan.

Forget the "Satanic" part - think of blackmail rings. Remember Bush's weird speech to the UN about sex slavery? Think about it?
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #15
21. The boogeyman of American culture is known to law enforcement
which, up until these historic times we find ourselves in, has been blocked from making arrests for horrific crimes committed by organized groups within the "national security" community, that is a fact of the corruption in government.
NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
16. But, they were just Following the Leader
the appointed commander-in-chief, George Skull & Bones Bush, who took his basic training in the Dungeon -- following in the dark footsteps of his father and grandfather...
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #16
29. But Remember...so did
Kerry.
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Alerter_ Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #29
71. the $10,000 question
Kerry was involved in the lawsuit to force S&B to allow women and non-whites, I've been told. Whether that means anything I don't know.
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TrogL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
23. Don't start this idiocy again
This was part of a "retrieved memory" case that was later thrown out of court.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Oh my goodness-"idiocy" and now you refer to CIA shrinks "theories"
that the mental-health profession itself is finally challenging because of mind invasive technology used by cult criminals hiding behind the national security shield for quite awhile.

For instance, the diagnostic criteria used for psychosis.
http://www.adacomp.net/~mcherney/NewCrit-JPSS-CS2.htm

NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.
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kiahzero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #24
117. Retrieved memories are bullshit
Responsible members of the mental-health profession recognize that fact. The problems of false memories are discussed extensively in peer-reviewed literature.

But I guess all the rules get thrown out by saying "CIA," eh?
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-04 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #117
129. Responsible members of all professions signed away their ethics
if they signed on for CIA "research". Also, they could have been unwitting participants, duped, like some 80 institutions that were involved in at least 149 sub-projects of MKULTRA. You can take what I've posted here to the bank. Here's a link for you to get up to speed on this kind of stuff.
http://www.datafilter.com/mc/remoteBehavioralInfluence....
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flatbroker Donating Member (63 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
28. Did jebbush ever find all those missing kids in FL?
I remember reading that a lot had come up missing while they were wards of the state.
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. No
He didn't
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Alerter_ Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #28
37. lots of kids missing from foster homes all around Florida
and another round of Republican local officials getting arrested. Huh.
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the_real_38 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
31. Get real....
... those are Christian abuse rituals.
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
36. And in Washington state...comes this

The current Secretary of State was involved in a bit of nastiness.

http://www.lbloom.net/okreed.html
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demgrrrll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. There is little that I won't consider as being possible with this regime.
That being said there is a point where true or not true
many people will not believe a true story and turn away because
it is just too much to take. I have seen it happen with
juries in horrific child abuse cases, where people simply do
not want to believe that a human being is capable of that
kind of behavior. I'm not sure
exactly what my point is other than even if you have a stack
of evidence there will be people who will never believe this.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. I believe the Pentagon just showed some of that evidence to our Senators
and there are many reports coming in to support that evidence.
NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.
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demgrrrll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. I believe you. It seems like there have been rumblings about this
for years. We are really going to have to confront some
horrible realities about our society.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
42. I got a book called "The New Satanists" by Linda Blood.
She started the Cult Awareness Network. She knew Michael Aquino. She lost CAN in a lawsuit. What a story. This is really "down the rabbit hole". But we need to go there. Keep it up Bobthedrummer.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
46. That doesn't make you Jesus
Edited on Thu May-13-04 02:24 PM by seemslikeadream



As I ran faster
But it caught me here
Yes my loyalties turned
Like my ankle
In the seventh grade
Running after Billy
Running after the rain
These precious things
Let them bleed
Let them wash away
These precious things let them break
Their hold over me

He said you're really an ugly
But I like the way you play
And I died
But I thanked him
Can you believe that
Sick holding on to his picture
Dressing up every day




I wanna smash the faces of those beautiful boys
Those christian boys
So you can made me cum
That doesn't make you Jesus





I remember
Yes in my peach party dress
No one dared
No one cared
To tell me where the pretty girls are
Those demigods
With their nine-inch nails
And little fascist panties
Tucked inside the heart
Of ever nice girl
These precious things
Let them bleed
Let them wash away
These precious things
Let them break
Let them wash away

Tori Amos - Precious Things

Her dress has been deliberately pulled down over one shoulder to expose part of her childish chest. Her scrawny shoulders are hunched as if to keep up her dress.

It is pornography, and the little girl is as real as the woman she grew into - the woman who sent the photograph to Ms. Sarson.

Jeanne Sarson looks toward the picture. "Her pornographer was her own father," she says matter-of-factly.

"The ultimate goal of the ritual abuser is to destroy the spirit - it's a powerful tool which gives them power over the child, but our ultimate goal is to break the cycle, to prevent and to help people recognize the signs," she says.

http://www.halifaxherald.com/external/ritualabusetortur...
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #46
52. Of course not, but it helps to believe that one didn't commit "THE
UNFORGIVABLE SIN" that these criminals sometimes program and actually compete with one another to come up with. It's like going into Room 101 in 1984 for real with the cult criminal element.

NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #46
62. Thanks for posting those lyrics, that link
Talking about these things openly will help break the cycle. I can't help but wonder how many children are now dealing with these issues, but won't get any help until they're grown, and living with the consequences.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #62
69. The words are way more effective when she is at the piano
they haunt me. I know torture. 1 in 4 children will deal with 'issues'.

Thanks to you.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #69
70. The gift that keeps on giving, isn't it?
One in four... :cry:
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #70
73. Beyond shame, sister.
NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-04 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #73
95. 14 pairs of Gypsy twins


Once Mengele's assistant rounded up 14 pairs of Gypsy twins during the night. Mengele placed them on his polished marble dissection table and put them to sleep. He then proceeded to inject chloroform into their hearts, killing them instantaneously. Mengele began dissecting and meticulously noting each and every piece of the twins' bodies.

Mengele supervised an operation by which two Gypsy children were sewn together to create Siamses twins. The hands of the children became badly infected where the veins had been resected. Often Mengele injected chemicals into the eyes of children in an attempt to change their eye color.



Mengele's special pathology lab was located next to the crematorium. He made experimental surgeries performed without anesthesia, transfusions of blood from one twin to another, isolation endurance, reaction to various stimuli. And injections with lethal germs, sex change operations, the removal of organs and limbs, incestuous impregnations ...

more
http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache:nM1ZuqsQxoAJ:ausch...


As surviving Mengele victim Alex Dekel later stated:

"Mengele ran a butcher shop - major surgeries were performed without anesthesia. Once, I witnessed a stomach operation - Mengele was removing pieces from the stomach, but without any anesthetic. Another time, it was a heart that was removed, again, without anesthesia. It was horrifying. Mengele was a doctor who became mad because of the power he was given. Nobody ever questioned him - why did this one die? Why did that one perish? The patients did not count. He professed to do what he did in the name of science, but it was a madness on his part ..."

The power he was given
Nobody ever questioned him

http://www.auschwitz.dk/Mengele/id24.htm
the evil still exists
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-04 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #95
96. "Tommorrow, the Stars!", can kiss my John Kerry ass!
NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-04 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #96
101. Old symbols preserved like ants in amber
Edited on Fri May-14-04 05:40 PM by seemslikeadream
hidden so deeply that they are not understood, but merely felt, like the ritual cannibalism in our Christian churches.

The right word often escapes me, that effective symbol.
My friend is adept at coding and uncoding my messages, communicating by symbols, much easier on my feelings.


Telepathic twins go their separate ways - earth and the stars!

We must go back farther to understand how easy it is to believe Hitler's story started here.

In the first three decades of the 20th Century, American corporate philanthropy combined with prestigious academic fraud to create the pseudoscience eugenics that institutionalized race politics as national policy. The goal: create a superior, white, Nordic race and obliterate the viability of everyone else.
How? By identifying so-called "defective" family trees and subjecting them to legislated segregation and sterilization programs. The victims: poor people, brown-haired white people, African Americans, immigrants, Indians, Eastern European Jews, the infirm and really anyone classified outside the superior genetic lines drawn up by American raceologists. The main culprits were the Carnegie Institution, the Rockefeller Foundation and the Harriman railroad fortune, in league with America's most respected scientists hailing from such prestigious universities as Harvard, Yale and Princeton, operating out of a complex at Cold Spring Harbor on Long Island. The eugenic network worked in tandem with the U.S. Department of Agriculture, the State Department and numerous state governmental bodies and legislatures throughout the country, and even the U.S. Supreme Court. They were all bent on breeding a eugenically superior race, just as agronomists would breed better strains of corn. The plan was to wipe away the reproductive capability of the weak and inferior.

Ultimately, 60,000 Americans were coercively sterilized legally and extra-legally. Many never discovered the truth until decades later. Those who actively supported eugenics include America's most progressive figures: Woodrow Wilson, Margaret Sanger and Oliver Wendell Holmes.

American eugenic crusades proliferated into a worldwide campaign, and in the 1920s came to the attention of Adolf Hitler. Under the Nazis, American eugenic principles were applied without restraint, careening out of control into the Reich's infamous genocide. During the pre-War years, American eugenicists openly supported Germany's program. The Rockefeller Foundation financed the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute and the work of its central racial scientists. Once WWII began, Nazi eugenics turned from mass sterilization and euthanasia to genocidal murder. One of the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute doctors in the program financed by the Rockefeller Foundation was Josef Mengele who continued his research in Auschwitz, making daily eugenic reports on twins. After the world recoiled from Nazi atrocities, the American eugenics movement its institutions and leading scientists renamed and regrouped under the banner of an enlightened science called human genetics.


http://www.waragainsttheweak.com /







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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-04 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #101
107. The Passing of the Great Race
War Against the Weak also asserts that until the United States entered the war, the Nazi regime's "eugenical courts, mass sterilization mills, concentration camps, and virulent biological anti-Semitism enjoyed the open approval of leading American eugenicists and their institutions." This may have been true, but Black doesn't have the evidence to back up his claim. Moreover, he doesn't need to pile on the hyperbole when he's dug up so many compelling examples of the love affair between American eugenicists and German race scientists:


for example, that Corporal Hitler read his favorite American eugenicists while in jail in 1924 and later sent a fan letter to Madison Grant, author of The Passing of the Great Race; or the strange case of Edwin Katzen-Ellenbogen, a Jewish psychiatrist, eugenicist and naturalized American citizen, who was found guilty by the Nuremberg tribunal for committing war crimes in Buchenwald.

http://www.genetics-and-society.org/resources/items/200...
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-04 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #107
109. Hitler's debt to America
Edited on Fri May-14-04 10:30 PM by seemslikeadream

One such agitator was a disgruntled corporal in the German army. In 1924, he was serving time in prison for mob action. While there, he spent his time poring over eugenic textbooks, which extensively quoted Davenport, Popenoe and other American ethnological stalwarts. And he closely followed the writings of Leon Whitney, president of the American Eugenics Society, and Madison Grant, who extolled the Nordic race and bemoaned its "corruption" by Jews, Negroes, Slavs and others who did not possess blond hair and blue eyes. The young German corporal even wrote one of them fan mail.

In The Passing of the Great Race, Grant wrote: "Mistaken regard for what are believed to be divine laws and a sentimental belief in the sanctity of human life tend to prevent both the elimination of defective infants and the sterilisation of such adults as are themselves of no value to the community. The laws of nature require the obliteration of the unfit and human life is valuable only when it is of use to the community or race."

One day in the early 1930s, Whitney visited Grant to show off a letter he had just received from Germany, written by the corporal, now out of prison and rising in the German political scene. Grant could only smile. He pulled out his own letter. It was from the same German, thanking Grant for writing The Passing of the Great Race. The fan letter called Grant's book "his Bible". The man who sent those letters was Adolf Hitler.

Hitler displayed his knowledge of American eugenics in much of his writing and conversation. In Mein Kampf, for example, he declared: "The demand that defective people be prevented from propagating equally defective offspring is a demand of clearest reason and, if systematically executed, represents the most humane act of mankind. It will spare millions of unfortunates undeserved sufferings, and consequently will lead to a rising improvement of health as a whole."

more
http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1142027,00.ht...
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
48. The evidence shown to our Senators should be released
and the criminals prosecuted regardless of position or authority.

NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.
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Alerter_ Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #48
121. show the evidence to the State Governors and Legislature
All Americans are duty bound to protect the Constitution against enemies both foreign and domestic.
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
51. No link?
"I heard", "I am aware of", "my contacts" just doesn't cut it especially when the accusations are grave. Sorry.
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Aries Donating Member (544 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. Here's one...
Like it says, "educate yourself":

http://educate-yourself.org/tg/satanicsubversionusmilit...

Satanic Subversion of the U.S. Military

by Jeffrey Steinberg
March 29, 2004

On February 5, 1999, in U.S. District Court in Lincoln, Nebraska, an extraordinary hearing occurred in Paul A. Bonacci v. Lawrence E. King, a civil action in which the plaintiff charged that he had been ritualistically abused by the defendant, as part of a nationwide pedophile ring linked to powerful political figures in Washington and to elements of the U.S. military and intelligence establishment. Three weeks later, on February 27, Judge Warren K. Urbom ordered King, who is currently in Federal prison, to pay $1 million in damages to Bonacci, in what Bonacci's attorney John DeCamp said was a clear signal that "the evidence presented was credible."

During the February 5 hearing, Noreen Gosch stunned the court with sworn testimony linking U.S. Army Lt. Col. Michael Aquino (ret.) to the nationwide pedophile ring. Her son, Johnny, then 12 years old, was kidnapped off the streets of West Des Moines, Iowa on September 5, 1982, while he was doing his early-morning newspaper deliveries. Since his kidnapping, she has devoted all of her time and resources to finding her son, and to exposing the dangers that millions of children in American face from this hideous, literally Satanic underground of ritualistic deviants.

"We have investigated, we have talked to so far 35 victims of this said organization that took my son and is responsible for what happened to Paul, and they can verify everything that has happened," she told the court.

"What this story involves is an elaborate function, I will say, that was an offshoot of a government program. The MK-Ultra program was developed in the 1950s by the CIA. It was used to help spy on other countries during the Cold War because they felt that the other countries were spying on us.

"It was very successful. They could do it very well."

Then, the Aquino bombshell: "Well, then there was a man by the name of Michael Aquino. He was in the military. He had top Pentagon clearances. He was a pedophile. He was a Satanist. He's founded the Temple of Set. And he was a close friend of Anton LaVey. The two of them were very active in ritualistic sexual abuse. And they deferred funding from this government program to use this experimentation on children.

"Where they deliberately split off the personalities of these children into multiples, so that when they're questioned or put under oath or questioned under lie detector, that unless the operator knows how to question a multiple-personality disorder, they turn up with no evidence."

She continued: "They used these kids to sexually compromise politicians or anyone else they wish to have control of. This sounds so far out and so bizarre I had trouble accepting it in the beginning myself until I was presented with the data. We have the proof. In black and white."


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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. Thank you Aries.
:hi:
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Aries Donating Member (544 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #54
57. De nada, Bob
Edited on Thu May-13-04 03:35 PM by Aries
Aquino also provided a blurb for this interesting book which has some relevance to the current events in Iraq:

The Templars and the Asssassins, by James Wasserman

"Wasserman adds profoundly to our understanding of the religious, ideological, and initiatory forces that shaped the development of Western civilization. brings both impeccable scholarship and a rare gift form making even the most complex metaphysical concepts intelligible to his readers."
Michael A. Aquino, Ph.D., High Priest Emeritus, Temple of Set


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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #53
59. Okay...but how does this relate to now?
That is what the original poster put forth, that things are going on right now and arrests are being prevented. Other than a harrasment claim in the 90's(found via google), all the other stuff was from the 80's.

Sorry, too loopy for me. Even the ite isn;t exactly a great source. I found other stuff on Aquino via google but it would be nice if the author shared a little of their research.
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #59
61. See 20 above.
Edited on Thu May-13-04 03:54 PM by God_bush_n_cheney
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


Edit:

What we are doing in Iraq is all based on the groundwork already done. I have read the paul bonacci case...and there is some sick shit going on under the cover of the National Security Act of 1947. It must be repealed if we are to survive as a nation.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. I don't think you're understating the situation, Andy.
:hi:
NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #63
64. I think I do...
really I do.
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Aries Donating Member (544 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #59
65. "Now" we are seeing the continuation of a pattern
that was established long ago. Not just the post-WWII period, but even longer.

A good place to start is the period covered by the Wasserman book about the Templars and the Assassins. The Roman period is another one. The book describes some of the Assassin training techniques as very similar to modern mind control methods. And the Templars used a lot of the same religious language that our current misleader does, including a lot of references to "God" and "evil". The fact that these "adepts", who have such strong connections to our political and military elite, are interested in that period is an indication that we would also benefit by seeing the connections.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #59
68. As I clearly stated I've heard rumors of SRA perpetrated on video
that our Senators were shown. And law enforcement is well aware of these SRA crimes but has been prevented from prosecution by criminal abuse of National Security to cover-up perpetrators.

That's being supported in this thread. It is time to speak openly about accountability.

NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #68
72. "National security" covers a multitude of sins.
Some of which are virtually unimaginable.

One small example from the links I posted to David McGowan's series, from the case of the child abuse cult, "the Finders":

These rumors were addressed in the U.S. News report as follows: "One of the unresolved questions involves allegations that the Finders are somehow linked to the Central Intelligence Agency. Customs Service documents reveal that in 1987, when Customs agents sought to examine the evidence gathered by Washington, D.C. police, they were told that the Finders investigation "had become an internal matter.'"
http://davesweb.cnchost.com/pedo6.html
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Alerter_ Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-04 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #72
76. kick
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jokerman93 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-04 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #68
90. So are you suggesting
Edited on Fri May-14-04 12:42 PM by jokerman2004
Are you suggesting that performing a Satanic ritual is a crime that should be brought into the open and prosecuted in the justice system?

Or is the crime actually the sexual/psychological abuse of a helpless human being?

Be clear. These are seperate issues. If you muddle them in your mind and hope that others do as well, many more innocents will suffer as they have in witch hunts of the past.

P.S. Are you aware that in the real "Satanic" underground, child and animal abuse are anathema? Probably not, right?
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Alerter_ Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-04 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #90
93. the "real Satanic underground"
"Are you aware that in the real "Satanic" underground, child and animal abuse are anathema? Probably not, right?"

You know what? White people from Christian families who decide to become "neo-pagans" or "Satanists" or "Thelemites" or whatever are not the issue here. Please do not hijack this issue in the continuing internet flame wars between neopagans and fundies. Try www.whypaganssuck.com and www.whychristianssuck.com for that.

"is the crime actually the sexual/psychological abuse of a helpless human being?"

OBVIOUSLY
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kiahzero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #53
119. Oh look.
Then, the Aquino bombshell: "Well, then there was a man by the name of Michael Aquino. He was in the military. He had top Pentagon clearances. He was a pedophile. He was a Satanist. He's founded the Temple of Set. And he was a close friend of Anton LaVey. The two of them were very active in ritualistic sexual abuse. And they deferred funding from this government program to use this experimentation on children.

"Where they deliberately split off the personalities of these children into multiples, so that when they're questioned or put under oath or questioned under lie detector, that unless the operator knows how to question a multiple-personality disorder, they turn up with no evidence."


Bullshit. "Multiple Personality Disorder" is seen as a complete crock by responsible members of the mental-health profession.

No wonder "unless the operator knows how to question a multiple-personality disorder, they turn up with no evidence" - they don't get evidence unless they ask leading questions.

Please:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/sra.htm

Read, and educate yourself, rather than posting ridiculous threads.
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drfemoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #119
123. If I read with any understanding
I do not see a discrepancy with the material you're presenting. I'm not going to read the entire site to justify an argument you aren't willing to make...

Have you read this thread with an open mind? Or are you reacting without reading with understanding?
No one here, AFAIK, is claiming the MPD is hereditary or indigenous. It is a CREATED phenomenon, just as your referenced site claims.
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LibertyorDeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 04:08 AM
Response to Reply #119
127. Who decides this

"responsible members of the mental-health profession"

I have personally known "responsible members of the mental-health profession"

Who were complete wack jobs.

MPD is open for debate. It is by no means "a complete crock"

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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #51
58. For background, here's an impressive six-part series by
David McGowan, titled "The Pedophocracy." He details a web of ritualistic child abuse that operates with the sanction of military- intelligence for the sake of blackmail, mind control research and the gratification of pedophilic elites. Crazy-sounding stuff, I know, but this isn't the David Icke zone. He cites mainstream sources.

"From Brussels ..."
http://davesweb.cnchost.com/pedo1.html

"... to Washington"
http://davesweb.cnchost.com/pedo2.html

"Uncle Sam Wants Your Children"
http://davesweb.cnchost.com/pedo3.html

"McMolestation"
http://davesweb.cnchost.com/pedo4.html

"It Couldn't Happen Here"
http://davesweb.cnchost.com/pedo5.html

"Finders Keepers"
http://davesweb.cnchost.com/pedo6.html
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #58
60. Too many professionals are aware of these crimes now. There is a lot
of healing work to be done imho and life experiences.
NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.
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kiahzero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #58
120. This man is a capital-F Fucktard
Anyone who claims that SRA happened in the McMartin case is an absolute fucktard, unworthy of any respect whatsoever.

"Citing mainstream sources" does not a valid argument make, when the "mainstream" sources were completely and utterly wrong, too busy following the hype of a story to care about what they were doing. The "mainstream" press destroyed people's lives, and didn't even care enough to say sorry.

There are different levels of crackpot theories. To give you a frame of reference - if someone had an idea that Bush personally flew a remote-controlled 747 into the WTC while sitting in Booker Elementary, that theory would make more sense than this SRA bullshit.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-04 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #51
92. Tell ya what, just check out LBN-thousands of US Nazi cases reopened.
Hello? This thread could be helpful to all that seek to end the corruption that led to the intelligence failure of 9-11.

NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.
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BBradley Donating Member (645 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
55. There is no such thing as Satanism in the traditional sense.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. But there was a Church of Satan followed by the Temple of Set
Edited on Thu May-13-04 03:33 PM by bobthedrummer
founded by Col. Michael Aquino of US Army MI/PSYOPS who also worked in the Defense Intelligence Agency.

NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
74. The people must see this on demand-it cannot be "classified" any longer
NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.
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Alerter_ Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #74
75. how can we get law enforcement to do something?
What about the victim's groups here at home?

WHICH DEMOCRATS WILL TRY TO STOP US?
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friendofbenn Donating Member (383 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-04 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
77. cheney
so who is cheney choosing as his new frontman? aquino or satan??
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jokerman93 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-04 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
78. Jeezuz F. Gump
Edited on Fri May-14-04 10:05 AM by jokerman2004
Don't we have enough grotesque reality to deal with now with this war and an increasingly totalitarian government without dredging up hysterical (Christian-based) Satanic conspiracies?

I seriously doubt any of you have studied occultism in any depth at all.

Satanism is a Boogey Man for people who are afraid of the shape of their own shadows. That's the joke behind LeVey's Church of Satan. You are being used by the perps of all this crap. Pedophilia rings, drugs, slavery, money laundering, blackmail, extortion, mind control -- these are all crimes committed by ordinary human beings -- crimes that have been committed since the beginning of civilization. The idea of Satanic ritual scares the crap out of you because of your refusal to deal with the immediate and monumental corruption of the system that you inhabit and feel enslaved by.

Satanism is being used against you and you don't even know it. It deflects from the real issues of corruption that must be dealt with rationally and forcefully, by political and social means.

Any rituals performed are psy-ops -- intended to spook the ignorant. Are you spooked yet?

Wake up people! Satan is a cultural creation of Western civilization with roots in the ancient Egyptian and Mesopotamian deities Set and Shaitan. Try looking for Satan in Asia. Satan is a psychological achetypal figure with myriad variations, as unreal as Zeus or Apollo or any other culture-bound mythological figure that has evolved over centuries. Do your homework. Satan isn't responsible for any of what's going. We are. Human beings.

Deal with the real issues. You want to go back to the Middle Ages? That's your problem.

How can I get any clearer?
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Alerter_ Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-04 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #78
82. "Satanism"
"Pedophilia rings, drugs, slavery, money laundering, blackmail, extortion, mind control -- these are all crimes committed by ordinary human beings -- crimes that have been committed since the beginning of civilization."

I think everyone agrees with that, and I think most people understand that the "Satanism" part is theater meant to frighten people.

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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-04 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #82
89. "most people understand that the "Satanism" part is theater"
I'm not sure that I agree that "most people" understand this at all.

I agree with jokerman2004, we need to be very clear that "satin worship" is not the point. The point is, crimes--rape, torture, murder and blackmail (among others)--are being committed by elements WITHIN the military/intelligence communities AND PROTECTED FROM PROSECUTION by the NSA. This is a major scandal that must be exposed.
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Alerter_ Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-04 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #89
102. the NSA specifically?
ya think?

"we need to be very clear that "satin worship" is not the point. The point is, crimes--rape, torture, murder and blackmail (among others)--are being committed by elements WITHIN the military/intelligence communities AND PROTECTED FROM PROSECUTION"

yep
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-04 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #102
110. That's the truth, I've stated that fact and am coming from that
perspective because no one is above the law, and we have been warned about an "intelligence failure" that contributed to the biggest CRIME in US history the 9-11 attacks.

Now CRIMES have been committed that have the end result of increasing anti-Americanism worldwide and it's time to clean-up the corruption wherever it is found.

I trust the system when it's accountable, not a "shadow government".

In order to get to that point all known facts are necessary to consider in these historic times we find ourselves in. The release of 8 million pages of docs about US Nazis and the reopening of thousands of cases is one hopeful sign.

The public release of the evidence held by the Rumsfeld/Myers DoD and viewed by our Senators would be another good step for America.
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jokerman93 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #110
125. Right on
This is well stated Bob, and now I understand what your real concerns are and agree completely.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-04 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
79. Some Serious NAZI Shit, there, Bob.
The NAZIs were into occult shit, just like the top reptiles of the BFEE.

The Nazis And The Occult

Lowell K. Dyson, Ph.D. Columbia, 1968

There is probably more mythology about the nazis and the Occult than about Hitler's sex life or his later (?) life in Argentina -- or at the South Pole. In certain circles it is a cottage industry and a particular kind of writer repeats "facts" from earlier books which were repeated from "facts" in other earlier books, which in turn may have come from such absolutely trustworthy sources as the National Inquirer. (I am very sorry to tell you that simply because something is in a book does not make it true). The following bibliography is my interpretation of some of the books which I have collected over the years.

Lets's start our with the one serious book which everyone with an open mind and a willingness to evaluate sources should start with:

Nicholas Goodrick-Clarke, The Occult Roots of Nazism: Secret Aryan Cults and Their Influence on Nazi Ideology, The Ariosophists of Austria and Germany, 1890-1935 (published 1985; republished as pb. by I.B. Tauris & Co., Ltd. London: 1992 -- I think there is also now an American publisher) This is a book by a scholar with a D.Phil. From Oxford and who is a serious student of the occult. It has well-researched material on the 19th and early 20th century volkish and occult groups and leaders: Ariosophy, Wotanism, the Armanenschaft, Order of New Templars (NOT the OTO), the Germanenorden, the Edda Society, the Thule, the probably imaginary Vril; von List, Lanz "von Liebenfels", "von Sebottendorff", Wiligut, et cetera, et al. You come away with a recognition that although a few occultists operated on the fringes of Nazism, they were pretty pitiful.

CONTINUED...

http://remus.rutgers.edu/~woj/arcana/nazi.html
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jokerman93 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-04 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #79
80. Yep
The Nazis loved playing dress-up too. So what's the point? Does this make their racist attrocities any more heinous?
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-04 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #80
81. The point is that the US Government is ACTING like NAZIs.
Haven't you noticed?

Another question: Did you ever hear of Operation PAPERCLIP?

It doesn't matter, behold:


CIA, Nazis & the Republican Party

A Fresh Look


by Carla Binion

Nazis and the Republican Party

Investigative reporter Christopher Simpson says in BLOWBACK that after World War II, Nazi migrs were given CIA subsidies to build a far-right-wing power base in the U.S. These Nazis assumed prominent positions in the Republican Party's "ethnic outreach committees." Simpson documents the fact that these Nazis did not come to America as individuals but as part of organized groups with fascist political agendas.

The Nazi agenda did not die along with Adolf Hitler. It moved toAmerica (or a part of it did) and joined the far right of the Republican Party. Simpson shows how the State Department and the CIA put high-ranking Nazis on the intelligence payroll "for their expertise in propaganda and psychological warfare," among other purposes...

Journalist Russ Bellant (OLD NAZIS, THE NEW RIGHT, AND THE REPUBLICAN PARTY) shows that Laszlo Pasztor, a convicted Nazi war collaborator, built the Republican migr network. Pasztor, who served as adviser to Republican Paul Weyrich, belonged to the Hungarian Arrow Cross, a group that helped liquidate Hungary's Jews. Pasztor was founding chairman of the Republican Heritage Groups Council. Two months before the November 1988 presidential election, a small newspaper, Washington Jewish Week, disclosed that a coalition for the Bush campaign included a number of outspoken Nazis and anti-Semites. The article prompted six leaders of Bush's coalition to resign.

According to Russ Bellant, Nazi collaborators involved in the Republican Party included: 1.Radi Slavoff, GOP Heritage Council's executive director, and head of "Bulgarians for Bush." Slavoff was a member of a Bulgarian fascist group, and he put together an event in Washington honoring Holocaust denier, Austin App....

CONTINUED...

http://www.alexconstantine.50megs.com/cia_nazis_and.htm...
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jokerman93 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-04 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #81
83. I agree
I agree wholeheartedly with you that we are dealing with a Nazi model here. And I also agree that the sytem is utterly and outrageously corrupt.

The mojo is irrelevent though. It's window dressing. That's my point.
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-04 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #79
84. Here's another one: "Unholy Alliance" by Peter Levenda
Updated edition, with a forward by Norman Mailer. Haven't bought it yet, but I've been ogling it. He doesn't stop with the fall of Berlin, but treats the importation of Nazi occultism to the US via, among other means, the ratlines of Project Paperclip. Michael Aquino's name pops up again, here.

...



In this readable but thoroughly researched survey of the mythic/religio/occult ideologies that formed the basis of the Nazi movement, in UNHOLY ALLIANCE, the author has succeeded in making a dense, fact-laden topic spanning hundreds of years accessible to the non-specialist reader without sacrificing accuracy. This is probably the most thorough treatment of Nazi occult ideology in English, and where it surpasses similar works is that it continues documenting neo-Nazi survivals right up to the present.
http://www.earth-religions.com/Unholy_Alliance_History_...
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jokerman93 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-04 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #84
87. This is a good one
n/t
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-04 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #84
91. I was born and raised in Milwaukee there is some Nazi support there
and a NSWPP candidate got over 6,000 votes in 1974 for mayor.

Aquino ran with the NSWPP and used them during Operation CHAOS in Milwaukee in 1969. The NSWPP wanted to recruit me because as a musician that wore mod clothes I knew how to fight. Aquino and his crew have always been around musicians because of the programming channels or maybe they have envy of artists.

All I can say for sure is that in my opinion and life experiences in the summer of 1969 simutaneously with the crimes committed by the Charles Manson "family" there were strikingly similar "families" in other parts of US, I saw this happen in Milwaukee, law enforcement is aware of this and has been prevented from prosecution of criminals and gangs do to the intervention of individuals and/or agencies abusing National Security classification or authority.

NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.
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drfemoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-04 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #91
114. Isn't that clever?
If you want to *break* the law, become the law.

If you want to act out in ways contrary to social and humanity-enhancing standards, become the guard of same.

Power .. Corruption .. Is that a universal law? Or did we get duped somewhere along the way?
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-04 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #114
115. Where have we seen this before? What were the results?
NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.
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drfemoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #115
118. Since the dawn of time
AFAIK .. The sh@t you see are the results.
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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-04 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
88. Occultism, sex, and mind control are all connected
The intelligence types who began trying to research mind control back in the MK-ULTRA days would naturally have been aware of occult sources that were after the same goal. And sex has always been one of the most powerful tools in the arsenel of occult power-tripping. The question would seem to be whether they've merely studied these things, or whether they've gotten personally involved.

Ioan Couliano's "Eros and Magic in the Renaissance" is a book that may be of relevance. Here's a quote from the blurb: "Renaissance magic, according to Ioan Couliano, was a scientifically plausible attempt to manipulate individuals and groups based on a knowledge of motivations, particularly erotic motivations. Its key principle was that everyone (and in a sense everything) could be influenced by appeal to sexual desire. In addition, the magician relied on a profound knowledge of the art of memory to manipulate the imaginations of his subjects."

Couliano was murdered several years ago in a bizarre and unsolved case, quite out of keeping with his image as a simple scholar of the Renaissance. If his work was not merely dry historical investigation but was a key to principles that are actively being applied today, his death might begin to make some sort of sense. Here's a link to the Amazon listing of the book: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/022612316...

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jokerman93 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-04 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #88
94. Ok -- One more time
You want to play this out? Fine. Do a little research on Neuro-Linguistic Programming -- NLP. It is a powerful technology that can be used both for positive psychological change, or hypnotic control of individuals and groups using suggestion and powerful imagery planted in the imagination of witnesses, subjects and practitioners. It has been refined over the years down to stark psychological priciples. NLP harnesses the profound power of the imagination to effect change in consciousness through the use of language and visual imagination. The CIA uses these priciples. The Neo-con propaganda machine uses these priciples every day. They can be employed to heal, or create monsters.

"Occultism" is nothing more than the use of these identical principles discovered, developed and refined by natural philosophers, alchemists, priests and religionists of eras previous to the Western enlightenment.

These are the same principles of "brain change" and manipulation employed by Madison Avenue, media propagandists, and all religions - legitimate (e.g. Christian) and "cult" alike.

Spooky, scarey, dark imagery and content are irellevant to the application of these techniques, and in the case of "ritual abuse" is merely a ploy. They are only the trappings of the actual system of illegal abuse that employs them.



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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-04 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #94
99. The whole secrecy fetish fits in here as well
Reading your post, I realized that the Neocon/Straussian fetish for secrecy isn't just a matter of covering their asses. In order to manipulate people in the ways you describe, it's extremely important for them to know things we don't and be able to control our flow of information. If at any point we can lift the veil and discover the little man behind the curtain, the illusion fades and we're no longer under the spell.

If we knew what was *really* going on with al Qaeda and Iraq and the Patriot Act, they wouldn't be able to jerk us around the way they do. Even here on DU, where we're far better informed than most, we can be sent stampeding by an unexpected shadow play like the Berg affair.

You've also got me thinking about the American Revolution in these terms. So much of the Constitution seems constructed to ensure that hidden things will be brought out in the open -- from balance of powers, to freedom of speech and the press, to copyright terms designed to maximize the release and spread of knowledge. And *all* of these are now under direct assault.

I don't really believe in vast, centuries-long conspiracies. I think people just know certain things instinctively and behave in predictable ways as a result of that knowledge. But the last 500 years can sure look like one continuing struggle between the forces of enlightenment (democracy, science, freedom of information) and the forces of elite oppression. And right now, enlightenment is more gravely threatened than at any time since the Revolution.
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Alerter_ Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-04 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #99
106. Defend our Constitution - show the Torture to the State Governors
I agree with you 100% about our Constitution. It's our duty as Americans to protect it from enemies both foreign and domestic.

The disgusting, repulsive torture that Bush and the neo-con faction are committing is a grave, historical violation of human rights and all religions. The people involved in this must be stopped and brought to justice.

Our Constitution will work, if we respect the openness, the accountability, and the separation of powers that it demands.

EVERYTHING - every picture, every video, every detail - MUST be witnessed by every part of our Constitutional government - the President, the Congress (Senate and House), the Supreme Court.

We also MUST respect Constitutional Federalism, and have our 50 State Governments - the Governor and the Legislature and their Supreme Court - have unfettered, 100% access to every single image and video.

I understand they may not release it all to the public right now, but it MUST be witnessed by the entire democratically elected government, AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.
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drfemoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #94
122. hey ~ thanks for the clarity
about this issue. I'll read just about anything. I don't hold out until I find something "true" to read/study (ref: sig).

So, some *theorists* put forth this "SRA" (learned a new acronym) evidence as an evil portent for things to come.
At the same time, they readily admit there is no such *devil*.

I've had a hard time reconciling the polar expressions of their *theories*.
You've done a superb job of explaining the dichotomy.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-04 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #88
112. The government did ownup to STARGATE, once again DIA and MI
were heavily involved in seeking out-how can I put this without being offensive to some, let's call it "spiritually gifted" people or humans with paranormal abilities that could be replicated, like remote viewing and telekinesis.

This criminal element was involved in that too, much of this has been privatized into mercenaries like SAIC-here's a link from SAIC's Cognitive Sciences Laboratory that illustrates what I'm talking about
http://www.lfr.org/csl/index.shtml

Most spiritually gifted or paranormal folks would never willingly choose the darkside-that's not the American way at all. But some were probably "influenced" by criminals studying and researching weird stuff.

NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.
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bobbieinok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-04 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
97. thanks, I guess, for bringing this up again - esp the NE stuff
This really freaked me out when the NE mess was discussed earlier on DU.

I lived in IA when Johnny Gosch was kidnapped; my son was about the same age. I trusted/trust his mother; the links I read in the DU discussion was the first I had heard of the later developments.

There is a lot of hatred and fear of the 'Moonies' and 'Satanism' in the religious right. If 'we' could ever get the ties to some of the televangelist (Moonies) and the republican party (Moonies and pedophilia/NE/'Satanism' to the congregations, there would be a major explosion. Most have never heard of all the ties to the 'Moonies', let alone anything else.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-04 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #97
98. I guess I 'll thank you for participating then.
:hi:

NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.
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slutticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-04 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
100. "satanic ritual abuse"
...not likely
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ArkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-04 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
103. Hard to believe anyone would abuse a satanic ritual.
.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-04 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
104. have you seen this story,bob I just came across it.
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Alerter_ Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-04 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #104
113. I think this article is DISINFORMATION
whatever "SRA" "satanic ritual abuse" is, how often it occurs, and what the Bush regime has done to Iraqis

"For that reasons, a child pornography ring would not necessarily qualify as SRA unless the perpertrators were religiously or spiritually motivated".

This article is disinformation - some truths disguisted with some clever lies - that should be dissected critically.

This torture scandals is about blackmail and money primarily. Whatever your religious beliefs, the important issue is justice and accountability to the law.
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suegeo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-04 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
105. What does MK ULTRA stand for?
I cannot find what the acronym stands for. I did discover that in the context of WWII, ULTRA stood for "deciphered, enemy documents," and that ULTRA was not an acronym, it was just a code word. Help?

Also, I read in this thread (or one of the linked ones here) that there was an Omaha,NE connection (failed S&L, Larry King.)

Here's some wild speculation on my part:

The whole Enron debacle had its start in Omaha. The boys from Texas descended on Omaha in the mid to late 80 in order to scoop up some pipeline company based in Omaha. Kenny boy promised the Omaha business community that, if the deal went through, Enron would not move the company headquarters out of Omaha. Well, Kenny boy is a liar, and the company HQ moved. What if this god awful child sex ring were based in Omaha at that time in order to black mail the business community there? Just a thought.

And on an endnote: After Enron crashed and burned, the Oracle of Omaha bought the pipeline assets back at firesale prices.

There's lots of other speculation I could make, but God, this is a horrific topic, and it hurts my soul to even add this much to the topic.
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-04 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #105
108. MK is a prefix to denote that the program was under the auspicies of
Edited on Fri May-14-04 09:55 PM by Minstrel Boy
the CIA's Office of Technical Services Staff (TSS).

This new phase of mind control research would be placed under TSS control because it was decided they would have no reservations about testing radical new ideas on unsuspecting subjects. The new CIA director Allen Dulles specifically requested that any doctors or scientists who were to be recruited for the operation must be "completely co-operative in any phase of our programme regardless of how revolutionary it may be."
http://www.mindcontrolforums.com/pro-freedom.co.uk/skel...
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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #108
116. Allen Dulles is linked to so much really evil crap
Edited on Sat May-15-04 12:05 AM by starroute
His name pops up in so many dubious contexts that I've started keeping a list, with the expectation that an interesting pattern will emerge. The main points of interest I've noted so far are:

c. 1919 - As a State Department delegate to the Paris Peace Conference, it is Dulles (then a young Wall Street lawyer) who lets the DuPonts know that their continuing to do business with Germany in violation of the Versailles Treaty will be "winked at." (The DuPonts were represented by another Wall Street lawyer, William Donovan, who during World War II would become head of the OSS, precursor of the CIA.)

1934 - A congressional investigation identifies the Hamburg-Amerika shipping line (owned by Prescott Bush's father-in-law) as a cover for I.G. Farben. Instead of divesting the assets, Bush hires Allen Dulles to hide them. Dulles and his brother then continue working as the lawyers for Prescott Bush and Averell Harriman in their dealings with Nazi firms.

1940's - Dulles is said to have used his position in the OSS to help Nazi businessmen smuggle their wealth to Argentina. After the war, he continues this by helping Nazis to escape to South America.

1951 - Dulles is made deputy director of the newly-established CIA and works with Averell Harriman (now Truman's national security advisor) to develop covert operations, psychological warfare, and propaganda.

1953 - Dulles is appointed director of the CIA by Eisenhower and is given far more of a free hand. He masterminds the overthrow of Mossagdeh in Iran in 1953 and that of Arbenz in Guatemala in 1954. He is later discredited by the U-2 incident (1960) and the Bay of Pigs invasion (1961) and is finally fired by Kennedy for his part in planning Operation Northwoods.

1963 - Dulles serves on the Warren Commission.


In short, Allen Dulles all by himself ties the Bushes, Nazis, the CIA, and mind control together into one large, stinky package. From the timeline above, it would seem that if Bush Sr. really did serve in the CIA before becoming its director, it would have to have been Dulles who recruited him.
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 01:39 AM
Response to Reply #116
126. Question
Why did my father claim to see satanic ritual type scenes being'prepared' for him,his operation room was draped in red, and his roommate the night before having very long fingernails claiming to be a vampire, before they pulled every tooth out of his head at the army hospital..because of gum infection? My father wasn't one to bullshit,in fact it was very difficult to talk about his military life,it ate a hole in his heart,and he took many secrets to his grave.
My neighbor was a pedo,he used Christian Apocalypse imagery.
A therapist Dr.Lowenstien tried to get me to LIE about my own past to say Satanists abused me when I knew damn well the abuser was Christian.
And isn't it the sad truth When Anton Lavey said in his Satanic Bible,that The(Christian) Church is the best Friend Satan ever had.
I take that seriously.

In my stint involved with the Church of Satan I found out the people involved to be insecure,defensive,manipulators,bullies,and politically very "libertarian" even while claiming to support right wing ideology or communism They talk alot of shit,just to get what they want,which is power-over..while excusing their leader's weaknesses. They are sadistic petty hypocrites, and their culture glorifies the same old sociopath tendencies we find everywhere as if it is fun and games.
Some of these people really believe rape is deserved...or is OK or what a rape victim desires.. They are as black and white simplistic thinkers while claiming to be so wise,they are obedient to leaders and as reactionary to "outsiders"as fundies are.
They shoot the messenger first,rather than think for themselves ,they don't dare take a person's experiences seriously if it means their leaders really ARE a group of self serving circle jerking fuck wads,and Satanists and certain types of racists,fundies and other miscellaneous groups share this trait of bullying and making excuses.Elitism is their favorite game and they all think they must be on top.These kinds of personalities use the same silly toxic group tactics on people to deflect people away from themselves and what they are doing until they blame the victim just as much as the Bush Fundie Cabal does when it gets outraged over the outrage over the brutal torture of the Iraqis..by our sick military run by sicker officers and sicker corporations and even sicker institutions of commerce, religion,politics and rabid insane politicians who look 'normal'.
In the AOG assemblies of God Church as well,they too were just as big of assholes as alot of the more advanced members of the Church of Satan were .The idiot I ministered under Denny Nissley boasted an NSA agent on board(he told me this one day).The Assemblies of God played the same old mind games ans Sata nists do,they were just as black and white thinking,manipulating,simplistic hypocritical and bullying as Satanists too.

So I do think there is a hell of alot of abuse behind closed doors.
It always happens behind closed doors or in a culture that shares it's abusive "values". I do think very sick people are in leadership positions,they have charisma and they are good at playing normal.The American public gives these monsters such trust,they stand by,they refuse to believe,because empowerment frightens them.How do you think things got this way in this slave state we live in where everyone believes they are so free?
If everyone believes it it might not be true,if very few believe it might not be true,if many believe it might be true if a few believe it might be true. You have to judge for yourself.The FMSF in my experience is Full of shit,it's a bully enabling org.Check out the vitriol and humiliation tactics they use,the arrogance and group pressure games.The verbal twisting and intellectual dubiousness..I ask you,do you remember every moment of your life? If not it means your memories went somewhere where your conscious mind can't find them right now. Trauma is more severe than just forgetting,Trauma burns and scars the brain.Those burnt synapses seal off the information.It takes time for the brain to heal itself to access the memories.There is physical evidence of trauma's effects.And I do think abused people in large numbers has detrimental effect on our culture too.

http://www.dartcenter.org/articles/special_features/bra...
http://www.leadershipcouncil.org/Research/BrDev/brdev.h...

There is simple psychology and trance states that disprove the FMSF game.The FMSF uses the very same emotional techniques psyops and marketing uses to affect memory, manipulate consent and information.Learn what these techniques are,then you will see them used too.
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Alerter_ Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #105
124. "child sex ring" "Omaha" "blackmail the business community"
Bush now has a new "red phone" communication link to the CEOs of major corporations, yet our own 50 State Governments cannot have their phone calls returned by anyone in the Federal Government.

Local law enforcement is aware of many horrific crimes against humanity against American citizens - as horrific as the Iraqi evidence coming to light - but this has been covered up due to "National Security" reasons. This has gone on since the World Wars, but grassroots organization and the ability to communicate is starting to break down the secrecy. Interesting times.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-04 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
128. The truth cannot be supressed by National Security-it is broke now.
NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-17-04 04:17 PM
Response to Original message
130. A kick for the uncorrupted law enforcement community that never gives up!
NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.
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