Wow! A tough article and a tough headline about General Miller. NYTimes!!!

[frank frankly]

Read this and tell me if you agree that this is a big article...

I think the NYTimes just connected some big dots! This is good reporting!

The tide is turning. Once the media decides to tell the truth, BushCo is DONE. Maybe this is why Rummy is still hinting at leaving?

-------------------------------

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/13/politics/13MILL.html?hp=&pagewanted=print&position=

General Took Guantánamo Rules to Iraq for Handling of Prisoners
By TIM GOLDEN and ERIC SCHMITT

<snip>

According to information from a classified interview with the senior military intelligence officer at Abu Ghraib prison, General Miller's recommendations prompted a shift in the interrogation and detention procedures there. Military intelligence officers were given greater authority in the prison, and military police guards were asked to help gather information about the detainees.

Whether those changes contributed to the abuse of prisoners that grew horrifically more serious last fall is now at the center of the widening prison scandal.

General Miller's recommendations were based in large part on his command of the detention camp in Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, where he won praise from the Pentagon for improving the flow of intelligence from terrorist suspects and prisoners of the Afghanistan war.

In Iraq, General Miller's team gave officers at the prisons copies of the procedures that had been developed at Guantánamo to interrogate and punish the prisoners, according to the officer who traveled with him. Computer specialists and intelligence analysts explained the systems they had used in Cuba to process information and report it back to the United States.

[Walt Starr]

1. Regardless of claims to the contrary, the Gitmo prisoners ARE

covered under the Geneva Conventions. Ignoring those treaties that the United States is a signatory too amounts to high crimes committed by members of this administration, not to mention being crimes against humanity.

Men were hung by the neck until dead for this same shit in the late forties.

[frank frankly]

2. but do you agree that this article significantly pushes the blame upwards

if the NYTimes or WaPost mentions Rummy's "Operation Manhunter" by name, then BushCo is done.

[Jacobin]

3. Yep. You got that right.

It'll be a cold day in hell though before I start singing the praises of the NYT. They helped get us into this quagmire. Tom Friedman should be flipping burgers, not writing his claptrap warmongering rubbish. and David Brook? In what puports to be a quality paper?

[frank frankly]

5. dude, i got nothing but digust and fury towards the NYTimes

but we gotta work with the media we have.

i've been watching them closely for two years now, and been reading here and dailyhowler.com and mediawhoresonline.com.

i know the nytimes is Pravda on the Hudson.

but we will need them to change to truly get out of this.

i think this was a good article. will it lead to move? i hope so.

[Jacobin]

13. Didn't mean to jump ya.

I know what you are saying and you are right. Just hacks me off to watch them do their warmongering and now tiptoe back pretending to be respectable journalists "covering a story".

[frank frankly]

20. no problem, Jacobin

no offense taken at all!

:hi:

[PfcHammer]

6. Bastard Brooks needs a glow stick.

[napi21]

4. Hmmm. Story seems to be going up the chain!

I have always questioned how BushCo could just say that people in some chosen catagories were not subject to the Geneva Accords. I thought that meant we were ignoring the treaty.

I wonder just how loyal Gem. Miller is the the admin?

[frank frankly]

7. if he is anything like that reptile neocon from the Senate Tagulba hearing

then he won't peep.

but if the press simply does its job, then it will go right to rummy.

[scottxyz]

8. This story involves violence, murder - and "sex" (rape)

This is the type of story that the American public loves to read for months on end.

So maybe the media will decide to turn on Bush now that they feel they can make some money pushing a sex-and-violence story.

Whatever pays the bills.

[frank frankly]

9. i think you are right. sweet jeebus...

but you are also right when you say"whatever pays the bills".

our media is stoopid and soulless. how stupid!!!

[scottxyz]

10. What I keep coming back to is this whole phoney notion of "interrogating"

We already know that there were no WMDs. Everyone knows we're either there to "create democracy" (the official line) or steal the oil (the unofficial line).

So what's the need for detaining and torturing "insurgents" anyways?

I've heard about 70 to 90 percent of them hadn't even done anything to get arrested. Some got turned in by neighbors who had grudges against them.

Iraq didn't do 9/11, and they didn't have WMDs, and they didn't have uranium from Niger. We got Saddam. So why are we rounding up Iraqis and interrogating and torturing them now?

They put a harness on some old Iraqi lady and rode her around like a donkey. What the hell was that supposed to accomplish? Was she supposed to yell out "The 50,000 tons of nerve-gas is stored in such-and-such"?

Torturing old ladies. Bush and Rumsfeld are SICKOS.

[SpiralHawk]

18. It's an Inquisition - not an interrogation

With kOmmAndeR AWOL Smirky as the Grand High Inquisitor, bound on a Crusade of power and greed.

[bpilgrim]

11. i think the pros gave these PUKES enough rope to HANG themselves

the 'CONTRACTORS' is the giveaway... this goes RIGHT to the TOP.

peace

[frank frankly]

12. is this the CIA's way of pulling the plug on BushCo?

could be!

[bpilgrim]

16. yep

and that the media is ON this thread spells BIG TROUBLE for this admin.

my boss is a staunch republican (rino) but almost every day brings up another gripe about this admin.

when this story first broke a republican aquaintence of mine of was pro bush, pro war, basically a real ditto head - like frankens - and also a former MP - GW1, recently out of the reserves - but when we met that weekend by chance i was very curious to hear his reaction to this when as soon as i got within earshot he asked me if i had heard about it...

when i said yeah, he said he was really shocked and appalded by the story. knowing his background, i thought i'd lay off any typical snide remarks about the chimp since i figured he'd just see it as a cheap-shot he being a dittohead and all... but while i was searching for the right words to give him my take on the situation he kept filling them in for me LIIIIEEEEEEEESSSSSS.

this admin is in deep dodo. i live in the HEART of a very conservative state and it no one i know can defend them anymore.

i think the patriots and defenders of OUR constitution and OUR way of life will prevail in the end... it's a simple NUMBERS game there are just waaaaay more of us then them ;->

:hi:

peace

[frank frankly]

17. I see it, too. And I hear it. Even the most hatrioc folks are scared now.

Check out CatWoman's thread on this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1589575

Her title: "I can't believe this. The RW's message isn't taking root"

[DUreader]

14. A sad world where a factual headline can be called tough

I agree it is hard hitting for the nyt not to whore a headline, but

they have betrayed so frequently that I immediateley suspect that

they are still whoring for bushinc* and that miller has been assigned the part of 'fall guy'

[frank frankly]

15. that could be. but they have survived by getting away with EVERYTHING

even if this is as high as it goes, it is 90% better than anything the NYTimes has given us during this crisis, Krugman notwithstanding.

Factual headlines are hard hitting...yeah, i know it's fucked up, but it is a clear improvement.

[sundancekid]

19. I agree totally with you, FRANKLY ... the worm is turning for *b/co

... and wait, until the NYT connects the dots that the "evangelical" Major Boykin was the one advising Miller on military INTERQUISITION (as I call it) at Gitmo!

Even the non-scientific internet media whore polls show that the public is NOT about to forget about the abuse scandal -- the Berg horror not withstanding -- and the media smells blood in the water on that one too.

By all means, let's PUT TRUTH FIRST, for a CHANGE.