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JohnLocke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 09:07 PM
Original message
Poll question: Who physically killed Nick Berg?
Edited on Tue May-11-04 09:11 PM by JohnLocke

Sorry, polls are turned off at Level 3.

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Wonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
1. Don't know. nt
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JohnLocke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. A fine looking dog.
Is that the beagle? He's quite the looker! :D
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Wonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. Yes, my current avatar is Buddy, the beagle I just inherited yesterday.
Thanks for adding a "Don't know" option to the poll.
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Eye and Monkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Hi, Buddy.
Hi. Glad you're here today. Cheers.
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freetobegay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
2. Other
The U.S. Government.
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Mel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
4. Don't know
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arcos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
5. directly, insurgents in Iraq...
indirectly, the US government.

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ewagner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
6. Too soon to say
Edited on Tue May-11-04 09:12 PM by ewagner
I saw the video on TV a little while ago.

To be honest, I thought some of my DU friends had gone off the deep end earlier today but after seeing those pics, I can see what they were talking about. I'm not ready for the tin foil club on this one yet, but I swear, that the terrorist on the screen left was standing in a "parade rest" posture. That just bothers the crap out of me.

Keep skeptical. Wait for more information.
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Jim Warren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #6
18. Good advice
voted don't know yet and we might bever know but I remain skeptical of this administration and the lengths it will go to 'wag the dog'
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 04:58 AM
Response to Reply #6
30. Other countries have drilled armies too
It's not much of a stretch to imagine that a bunch of terrorists includes, say, an ex-member of Saddam's conscript (or professional) army. I can't say whether they use the same stances, of course.
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goddess40 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #6
44. I wouldn't put it past our military - but we'll never know
Because our military only does damage control and I've been told the UN is no longer valid.
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seventhson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
7. Mabus
i.e. Bush and his ghouls
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
8. Other
Given the current evidence, it could be Islamicists, Americans, Pakistani Government operatives, Space Aliens, or any other conspiracy theory about the murder you care to name.

Yes, both the theory these murderers were Al-Queda and the theory they were CIA are CONSPIRACY THEORIES, and both theories are as plausible as the other two "conspiracy theories" I've presented here.
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IronLionZion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
9. both
Directly: the Iraqi insurgents/Al Qaeda
Indirectly: The cocksucking motherfuckers in the White House!
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Zero Gravitas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
10. Terrorists killed Berg
He's dead and his body was found on Saturday.

Whether the video is genuine is another issue (I haven't seen it and don't want to, but from the descriptions I've heard I wouldn't rule out it being faked.)
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Az Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 09:16 PM
Response to Original message
11. Need more evidence
Men in masks seem to have claimed they killed him. All we know is his body showed up on a bridge missing a head. We don't the origin of the video or even the veracity of it. It is horrible. But we do not know.
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
13. for the first time in memory
I voted "don't know" in a poll.

I haven't seen the video. I'm still deciding if I want to see the video. Some of the "tin foil hat" critiques of the video are thought provoking. I've seen the still photo and wonder if the video would be even more revealing.

For example, the "white skinned" executioners. True there are some white-skinned Arabs. But two out of five seems a highly abberant percentage, based on other photos of groups of Arabs I have seen. Berg's garb is also highly unusual for the circumstances. The body types of the killers do not look like the usual group of "terrorists," who are almost always much thinner. the guy on the far right of the photo particularly looks out of place to me.

Should I watch the video and risk psychic damage? (I'm not doing too well mentally or physically right now as it is.)
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carolinayellowdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. At least five people who've seen it say they regret it
which is sufficient evidence to tell me not to-- and which you should perhaps consider
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-04 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #13
58. There's a lengthy "tirade" from the "leader" -- you can stop it
after that, or when the guy pulls out his knife.

no way in hell I'd watch the beheading. I got the creeps big time just from the knife being pulled out. I don't even watch most current thrillers and spy movies.
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bushwakker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
15. George W. Bush
Mr Berg would be alive today if AWOL had not decided to use the world as his private playroom to act out whatever issues he has with his old man. We opened up this fucked up can of worms and now we deal all the shit that comes out.
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seventhson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. That is what I said: Mabus
Nostradamus's 3rd antichrist after Napoleon and Hitler

(for what its worth)

It looks like that scrawny motherf*cker is the one Nostradamus predicted (even the Pope thinks he may be according to Madsen at Counterpunch).
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bushwakker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. I'm really angry tonight
The right wingers are insane and dragging us all down with them. I really believe that the media is killing us. 24 hours a day of right wing stupidity and madness. No end in sight.
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
16. Parents blame Bush for son's execution
http://news.ft.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=FT.co...

<snip>

"Parents of a UScontractor executed by Islamic militants in Iraq are blaming the Bush administration for his death, saying that US authorities had contributed to the tragedy by unlawfully detaining their son for nearly two weeks before his disappearance.


Michael Berg claimed yesterday that his son, Nick, was held by US authorities without access to a telephone or lawyer because of suspicions that he was an insurgent or terrorist. By the time he was finally released in early April, according to Mr Berg, the security situation had so deteriorated that it was difficult for him to make his way home.

"That's really what cost my son his life, the fact that the United States government saw fit to keep him in custody for 13 days without any of his due process or civil rights," Mr Berg said."

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Webster Green Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
17. Probably another of smirky's re-selection stunts.....
This one will probably backfire as well.


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JohnLocke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
22. Kick (nt).
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JohnLocke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #22
45. Kick (nt).
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BattyDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
23. I hate to say it ...
Edited on Tue May-11-04 10:10 PM by BattyDem
but I honestly think the military/CIA/government did it. :tinfoilhat:

I really try to avoid putting the tinfoil hat on, but sometimes it can't be avoided. Too many things about this just don't add up. I watched my local news tonight (Fox ... which I normally don't watch, but it came on right after 24) and they said he was an engineer who went to Iraq to look for work and because he wanted to help rebuild the country.

Tell me something ...
Why did the US let him into Iraq in the first place? Is it possible that a person can just go to Iraq on their own and expect to find work and/or help with the rebuilding? That doesn't make any sense. Wouldn't you have to be a part of one of the private contracting firms or some sort of humanitarian organization? European countries can't get rebuilding contracts, why would this guy think he could?

According to the news, he was captured by the Iraqis, but they turned him over to the US. Then the US interrogated him for a few days before letting him go. (I know other reports said he was held by the US for a few weeks, but this report said a few days.) Then ... somehow ... he ended up in the hands of Al Qaida/Islamic extremists. WTF?

Again I ask, why did the US let a lone civilian into Iraq in the first place?

A few more questions ...

- Why did the Iraqi police arrest him?

- Why did they turn him over to the US for interrogation?

- Why did the US interrogate him and not allow him to speak to a lawyer, his family, etc.? Was he suspected of a crime?

- Why did the US simply release him into a war zone without providing him safe transport out of Iraq?

- Why was he in an orange jumpsuit? The news said the "extremists" put him in the jumpsuit because the prisoners at Abu Ghraib were forced to wear those jumpsuits. In all the Abu Ghraib photos I saw, there weren't any orange jumpsuits. Gitmo had them, not Abu Ghraib. Am I wrong? Even if there were jumpsuits, why would the "extremists" bother to put one on him? They never did anything like that before.

- Why has this video surfaced one day after the "Iraqi being threatened with dogs" photo was on the cover of all the US newspapers? His body was found on Saturday, wasn't it? According to the reports from the Red Cross or Amnesty International, the Abu Ghraib abuse has been going on for quite a while and the Iraqis knew ... even if the US public didn't. Why would they wait until now to retalliate by killing Berg?

If any of my information or assumptions are wrong, please enlighten me.

You what bothers me the most? The fact that I have no trouble believing that our government did this ... and that makes me sad, scared and angry! What have we become?

Whatever the truth is, I am so sorry for this man and his family. Nobody deserves to die that way. :(


edited for spelling (note to self: use the damn spellchecker!!!)

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Enraged_Ape Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 07:14 AM
Response to Reply #23
34. Never before did wear the tinfoil hat, but I'm 100% in agreement with you
Why does Al Qaeda always strike at THE MOST opportune time for Bush? And then when they do, why do they always do something so repellent that it outrages and galvanizes Americans (indeed, civilized people around the world) against them?

They just can't be that dumb, not when their top ringleaders (including Osama) continually evade U.S. custody!

And why are they just retaliating now? These pictures and video are months old! Is it because the press is just releasing them? And am I supposed to really believe this international terrorist network had no inkling the mistreatment was going before CBS aired the story in the U.S. last week?

The scenario the U.S. media is spinning is the strangest, fishiest story I've ever heard in my whole life. None of it makes a lick of sense, unless of course you consider who benefits from all of this. Then everything makes perfect sense.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #23
36. The timing, rhetoric, and rationale for this beheading video ...
Edited on Wed May-12-04 08:29 AM by TahitiNut
... coincides with the media revelations of Abu Ghraib in the US, NOT the awareness by Iraqis of such conditions.

I watched the video before I read much of anything on DU. (Daniel Pearl redux.) Along with the abysmal abhorrence I felt that any human being could do this to another, the behavior and appearance of the five (almost cartoonish) 'terrorists' was so strikingly bizarre that I have serious difficulty viewing it simply as what it purports to be.

To me, it looks like (with equal plausibiltiy) 3 Pakistani (ISI?) agents and 2 covert US agents. I get the distinct impression that two of these people didn't even fully understand the Arabic rhetoric being spewed - they were as inattentive as the teenager behind DimSon in the Letterman video. I also get the distinct impression that Berg was drugged.

While I couldn't 'prove' any interpretation, I have deep-seated skepticism regarding the 'official' (face value) interpretation.
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #36
48. Probably the best interpretation yet...
I had watched, then read threads, then watched again..many inconsistencies in the tapes
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phoebe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-04 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #36
57. you are on the right track
this whole incident is to distract us from just who exactly was in there doing the interrogations. The focus should be on the "private contractors" (read security contractors) who are not bound by any rules. "The most prized were plucked from the world's elite special forces units." according to a New York Times article.

snip

Security Companies: Shadow Soldiers in Iraq

by David Barstow, New York Times
April 19th, 2004

They have come from all corners of the world. Former Navy Seal commandos from North Carolina. Gurkas from Nepal. Soldiers from South Africa's old apartheid government. They have come by the thousands, drawn to the dozens of private security companies that have set up shop in Baghdad. The most prized were plucked from the world's elite special forces units. Others may have been recruited from the local SWAT team.

But they are there, racing about Iraq in armored cars, many outfitted with the latest in high-end combat weapons. Some security companies have formed their own "Quick Reaction Forces," and their own intelligence units that produce daily intelligence briefs with grid maps of "hot zones." One company has its own helicopters, and several have even forged diplomatic alliances with local clans.

snip

"I refer to them as our silent partner in this struggle," Senator John W. Warner, the Virginia Republican and Armed Services Committee chairman, said in an interview.

snip

"Security in a hostile fire area is a classic military mission," Senator Jack Reed of Rhode Island, a member of the Armed Service committee, wrote last week in a letter to Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld signed by 12 other Democratic senators. "Delegating this mission to private contractors raises serious questions."
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-04 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #36
62. My observation is about the same concerning the two terrorist
and their fidgeting during the Arabic speech. I have a harder time thinking that the beheading was indeed real.

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LibDemAlways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 08:50 AM
Original message
Thanks, Batty Dem.
* and his minions are such lowlife scum that there's probably nothing they wouldn't do to gain political advantage. The timing of this one, along with the questions involving Berg's presence in Iraq, the orange jumpsuit, the dress and stature of the executioners, along with their rapid id -- something stinks here. We can only hope that Berg's family asks a lot of questions.


No matter who did this, it's a heinous, horrible crime - and I, for one, am outraged.
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libhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #23
42. no one deserved to die this way
Edited on Wed May-12-04 03:47 PM by tx.lib
particularly at the hands of his own countrymen. Al Queda my ass.
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bushgottago Donating Member (98 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #23
50. Why are the executioners WHITE and FAT?
Why if the victim wearing a US prison orange jumpsuit? Why are the terrorists wearing bullet proof vests? Why does the terrorist on the right have white shoes on?
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Waverley_Hills_Hiker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
24. Only about a 3rd said American intel...
....theres hope yet for the DU online community.
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BattyDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. True ... but
Edited on Tue May-11-04 10:12 PM by BattyDem
About another third said "Don't Know/Undecided" which means they believe it's possible ... and two people said both. :tinfoilhat:

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troublemaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. And we are better than Saddam Hussein, too.
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seventhson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
27. Time for the October Surprise
in May?

Hold onto your hats, fans, it is about to get REALLY ugly in America.

Bush will stop at nothing to win...
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Pithlet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
28. I voted don't know.
I can't bring myself to watch the video. I've only seen one still picture from it, where he's kneeling in front of the captors.
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knight_of_the_star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 11:32 PM
Response to Original message
29. Unsure
Insufficient evidence for me to be certain either way.
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KG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 05:14 AM
Response to Original message
31. nick berg.
if you're a foreigner in iraq, and you don't want to be shot at, or beheaded, then get out the fuck out of that country.

nick berg was in a very violent, dangerous place, a place where he did not belong, where he was not wanted.

ultimately, nick bergs security was up to nick berg. he chose poorly.
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OpSomBlood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 07:24 AM
Response to Reply #31
35. I can't disagree with that.
I was offered a very lucrative contract job in Iraq, but turned it down because it wasn't worth the risk. And this was long before the bridge hangings in Fallujah.

I mourn for the guy, but he had to have known what he was getting into.
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bklyncowgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 06:07 AM
Response to Original message
32. Physically killed the guy--Islamic Terrorists--moral responsibility--Bush
The simplest explanation is usually the true one--Sherlock Holmes

I believe that Berg was killed by Al Queda.

I also believe that the U.S. Government shares some blame for his death. They released the guy from jail and told him to go home at a time when tensions in Iraq were close to the boiling point.

How many Americans do they have in cells in Iraq? If they wanted this guy out of the country they could have put him on a plane or in the first convoy to Jordan.

Instead they turned him out on the street and into the hands of people who hate Americans and hate Jews in particular.

Did they ever stop to think of what could happen to this man and if they did, and did it anyway then they are, in my opinion, complicit in his murder.
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Cheesy Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-15-04 02:09 AM
Response to Reply #32
59. I just viewed the video
and I think that I have to agree with your assessment, the simplest explanation is probably the correct one... It was most likely Islamic extremists. But the timing of this incident is very suspicious.
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-04 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #59
61. Hi Cheesy!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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leftyandproud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 07:01 AM
Response to Original message
33. these results surprise me
lots of smart people here...the general populace would be 99.8% to .2%
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
38. I would go with "A bunch of sick assholes who hid their faces"
Who were they? I have no idea. I don't think we will ever know.
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Wonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
39. Kick (there's a dupe)
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Cuban_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
40. Kick n/t
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Wonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
41. kick
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JohnLocke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
43. Three-way tie...
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bigwillq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
46. Unsure at this time
Can't say until I see some more facts. It wouldn't be right to guess.
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evil_orange_cat Donating Member (910 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
47. it probably was Al-Zarqawi
I like these results better than the other thread. ;)
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bushgottago Donating Member (98 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #47
51. But voice doesn't match him
According to CNN.
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JohnLocke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 08:01 AM
Response to Original message
49. Kick (nt).
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EV1Ltimm Donating Member (831 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
52. i want to hear from people who believe the gov't did it...
just a couple of questions...

1. Why would the government kill some nobody civilian contractor?
2. What would the government gain from his death?
3. If the government wanted to gain something from someone's death, wouldn't they chose someone a little more high profile?

inquiring minds want to know.

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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-04 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #52
56. I don't necesarilly believe it but it sure took the heat off the abuse
scandal. I've heard several people say "compared to what they do to us" referencing the beheading. It diverted MUCH attention from our scandal. Just a thought.
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Aussie_Hillbilly Donating Member (244 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 08:29 AM
Response to Original message
53. Who would know?
I voted "Don't know".

The video is so bizarre and heavily dubbed it could be anyone. People here seem to think only Al-Qaeda and the Bush regime stand to benefit. Not true, other states/para-states also have motive (inflaming war further) and opportunity (skilled covert ops personnel).

The actual killers were probably hired Iraqi goons (who may now also be dead).

My suspect list -

1. Al Qaeda or local copy-cats
2. C.I.A (like Operation Northwoods)
3. Cuba
4. Iran
5. Syria
6. China
7. Israel
8. Haliburton or Blackwater (Just kidding!)

I'm sure we're being lied to, but I doubt we'll ever get any closer to the truth :tinfoilhat:
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Cuban_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
54. It was the people in the black helicopters.
Bush had them flown into Iraq for this one specific mission. :eyes:

/sarcasm off
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JohnLocke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-04 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #54
60. LOL (nt).
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-04 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
55. I'm agnostic.
I don't know enough and may never know enough to "know" who killed him.
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