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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 01:39 PM
Original message
Call to ACTION - NICK BERG / This news MUST get out.
Edited on Tue May-11-04 02:00 PM by Tinoire

Sat, May. 08, 2004
West Chester contractor missing in Iraq

Associated Press

<snip>

He stayed until Feb. 1, making contact with a company that indicated there would likely be work for him later. But he returned on March 14 and there was no work, so he began traveling. He usually called home once a day and e-mailed several times; Michael Berg is his business manager, and they needed to stay in touch.

<snip>

When FBI agents arrived at the Berg's West Chester home on March 31, they were relieved to know their son was alive, but in jail. The agents questioned them about various details that only they and their son would know about.

Jerri Williams, spokeswoman for the Philadelphia FBI office, said the agency was "asked to interview the parents regarding Mr. Berg's purpose in Iraq."

On April 5, the Bergs filed suit in federal court in Philadelphia, contending that their son was being held illegally by the U.S. military in Iraq.

<snip>

Nick Berg said he would come home through Jordan, Turkey or Kuwait.

<snip>

The Bergs have hounded the State Department, the FBI and the International Committee of the Red Cross, seeking information. Michael Berg said the State Department sent an official to Nick Berg's hotel, where an employee told the official they had not heard of him.

<snip>

http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/news/politic...

Nick Berg was "travelling" on his own, not working.

The FBI demanding to know his "purpose" in Iraq

They filed a suit in federal court that the US military was illegaly holding him

Nick Berg, in order to get back home to the states, had to get to Jordan, Turkey or Kuwait to catch a flight? No airport in Iraq?

The "agents questioned them about various details that only they and their son would know about". Why? So these beheaded men that we can't identify could lure him? Film it? Provoke more outrage so the RW can excuse & snuff out the torture taking place at Abu-Ghaibr?


Sorry. Bull-shit alert. My theory right now. with the little information we have? Nick Berg knew something (Photos? What?), was in hiding, and was lured out to be executed by people on our side who are going to cynically exploit this beheading.

==============================

Nick Berg was INTERROGATED by the FBI for 2 WEEKS

and was under NO LEGAL obligation to keep his mouth shut about anything because he hadn't signed a privacy waiver.

----

26-year-old Nick Berg didn't sign a privacy waiver when he went over there.

And even though the State Department is using its one person in Iraq to help track him down, they can't tell anyone, including Berg's parents what's going on.

And that frustrates his mother Susanne.

"I'm just really scared, because we haven't heard from him for a month, and truthfully, nobody can even tell us whether he's dead or alive."

The local congressional delegation hasn't gotten any answers, either.

Nick last checked in April 9th, saying he was trying to find a safe way home following two weeks of FBI interrogation, after an arrest in Mosul.

<snip>

http://kyw.com/Local%20News/local_story_128173423.html
========================================

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1092851/posts

HERE IS THE ENEMY -- they have posted their names
A.N.S.W.E.R. | 3-7-04 | dfu

Posted on 03/07/2004 7:02:01 PM PST by doug from upland

Here you are, FReepers. Here is the enemy. Working in conjunction with A.N.S.W.E.R., they have given us their names.

How about this one --- Jameel Rashid, U.S. Coast Guard, Portsmouth, VA

Well, sailor. I guess it is time for me to call your commanding officer and see what he thinks about this.
====

MARCH 20, 2004


GLOBAL DAY OF ACTION
on the FIRST ANNIVERSARY of the U.S. BOMBING and INVASION of IRAQ


Bring the troops home now!


End colonial occupation from Iraq to Palestine and everywhere!


Money for jobs, education, healthcare and housing - Not war!
Stop the attacks on civil rights and civil liberties!
Madison Square Park (Madison Ave. & 23rd St.) in New York City, Dolores Park in San Francisco, Hollywood and Vine in Los Angeles, Michigan & Pearson in Chicago, and in cities across the U.S.


<snip of all the names they posted>

Michael S. Berg, Teacher, Prometheus Methods Tower Service, Inc.,
West Chester, PA


<snip>

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1092851/posts



CONGRATULATIONS FREEPERS!

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MSgt213 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
1. Nick Berg is the guy who was beheaded in Iraq and there is a video of it
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PaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
41. I just called Phil Berg
Edited on Tue May-11-04 02:24 PM by PaDUer
from Phila, who is Ellen Mariani's atty and he is NOT related.
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
2. There seem to be several threads here on DU...
...all with these same links. Can these be consolidated please.
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TeeYiYi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. This IS the consolidation of all of those links . . .
. . . compiled into one place for easy access and distribution.

Thank you Tinoire. :hi:

TYY
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
3. Sent to email list full of activists
All I can say is.... Negroponte's tactics are back in vogue....
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PaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #3
64. Everyone call your senators and congressmen
I just called Sherwood's office and gave them a hard time about the iraq abuse pix and videos not being released, told them we're demanding the release, that he's known about that since LAST YR, and we want them out NOW..due to the video of the Phila man being beheaded...She was speechless...then asked my name, address, and phone # so they can respond to me! Told her we want them out, and that we don't want the reserves/MP's taking the rap when this goes right to the top in the administration!
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gulfcoastliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
4. Wait a Sec...
He signed "Call to Action"? Thn went to Iraq o look for jobs? This is really weird. Perhaps another CIA setup just like Fallujah? I know there was some kind of nefarious story behind the contractors' deaths.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Right track, wrong conclusions
All I can say is Negroponte was confirmed for a reason and now it is plain for all to see
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. I am getting so confused.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Re-read the original post
then think back to Central America and the Death Squads, the right wing death squads... rememmber the Nuns?

Tinoire connected the dots... my blood is runing cold rght now for a reason... have seen this before
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underseasurveyor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #10
37. The Nuns and untold thousands more......
Raped, tortured and slaughtered and now negroponte can add more blood to his resume. You're right....we have seen this before and it hasn't been all that long ago.
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jadedcherub Donating Member (367 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #10
199. nothing. delete.
Edited on Wed May-12-04 09:58 PM by jadedcherub
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Ardee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #7
89. confused is good
it is a first step towards the full realisation of just how evil and amoral the rulers of our nation actually are!
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PaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #6
17. BINGO n/t
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #6
19. BINGO! n/t
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
25. He didn't sign it...his father did. (nt)
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #4
26. There was a protest over the closing of a newspaper, women and children
were shot in the face by mercenaries like Blackwater-but now we all must realize that Iraqis were increasingly aware of rapes, torture and murder.

I knew that the extreme hatred shown in the incident (that resulted in the USMC being shamefully ordered to take reprisals for mercenaries in Falluja) had to have had a real bad origin, now the whole world is aware of it and anti-Americanism is increasing as a direct result of traitors imo.

I am outraged as an American by the treasonous abuse of our government caused by criminals within the administration of George W. Bush aka The War President.

NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.
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judge_smales Donating Member (752 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
5. What am I missing?


Why are you congratulating Freepers?
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. For helping get yet another american killed n/t
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Justice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
8. Can someone explain this
I am missing the connection --
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Nick Berg is the person who was just beheaded in Iraq by "Al-Queda"
Edited on Tue May-11-04 01:57 PM by Tinoire
DUBAI (Reuters) - Al Qaeda's leader in Iraq beheaded an American civilian and vowed more killings in revenge for the abuse of Iraqi prisoners, an Islamist Web site said Tuesday.

A poor quality videotape on the site showed a man dressed in orange overalls sitting bound on a white plastic chair in a bare room, then on the floor with five masked men behind him.

"My name is Nick Berg, my father's name is Michael... I have a brother and sister, David and Sarah," said the bound man, adding he was from Philadelphia.

After one of the masked men read out a statement, they pushed Berg to the floor and shouted "God is greatest" above his screams as one of them sawed his head off with a large knife then held it aloft for the camera.

<snip>

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&s...

=====================

Pennsylvania family of man who was beheaded cries when learning details
By Jason Straziuso, Associated Press, 5/11/2004 14:24

WEST CHESTER, Pa. (AP) The family of a businessman who was beheaded after he was captured in Iraq cried Tuesday when they learned details of his videotaped death.

A video posted Tuesday on an Islamic militant Web site showed the beheading of Nick Berg, 26, of West Chester, whose family last heard from him April 9. It said the execution was carried out by an al-Qaida affiliated group to avenge the abuse of Iraqi prisoners by American soldiers.

Berg's family said earlier Tuesday that they were told by the U.S. State Department that Berg was found dead near a highway overpass in Baghdad on Saturday.

When told of the video by an Associated Press reporter, Berg's father, Michael, and his two siblings hugged and cried. They knew he had been decapitated, but didn't know the details of the killing.

''I knew he was decapitated before. That manner is preferable to a long and torturous death. But I didn't want it to become public,'' Michael Berg said.

<snip>

Berg's mother, Suzanne Berg, said her son was in Iraq as an independent businessman to help rebuild communication antennas. Berg owned a communications equipment company, Prometheus Methods Tower Service Inc., she said.

http://www.boston.com/dailynews/132/nation/Pennsylvania...

It is all a LIE. A CHARADE! An EVIL stinking lie!

No one other than US (or someone on our behalf) killed him to snuff the outrage over the torture photos and to get the blood-thirst for revenge back up.

They killed the son of an antiwar family.
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Bombtrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
13. Sooo, what the hell is your theory, the FBI cut off his head?
That doesn't make too much sense. This PR is not good for any American, any person of power in America, republican or democrat. It is just bad for the USA and our main federal law enforcement and investigation agency is not going to cut an Americans head off because it serves us no purpouse.
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TNOE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. That was the old America
that was the way things use to be.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. again wrong conclusion
THINK Central America, and the Iran Contra scandal, and the little you were allowed to see when they did peel some of the onion.
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Bombtrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. I KNOW all about the COLD WAR Latin America policies
and those were afwul means for an ends of the interests of the West. Keeping countries from going communist was the policy and keeping them from doing so by any means necessary was the means used by our more ruthless administration and adminstration officials through the years(VP Nixon and the Helms brothers in the 50's, Nixon and Kissenger in the 70's, Reagan/Bush1/North in the 80's and early 90's)

CUTTING OF SOME DUDE'S HEAD SERVES NO DISCERNABLE PURPOUSE OTHER THAN TO MAKE MORE AMERICAN'S UPSET WITH THE DISCISION TO GO TO IRAQ.

Which is certainly something the ruthless right-wing types with the defense/intelligence world(who are the minority) aren't for doing.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #22
33. Kid did NOT read
or sign a no talk agreement, a secrecy agreement

He is in the Freeps list

How more plain do I need to make this to you?

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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #22
48. Oh and one more tihng
You truly do not know all about the policy in Central America

You were shown very little of it...

Trust me, they did not tell you all that there was, in CA. Much of what happeend is still classified so deeply in our archives, and the International Red Cross archives, that it is not even funny.

There is much you do not know... and most do not know


And yes, these are the things they keep from you and me so we can sleep in peace. What you think Straussians just woke up this year to this?
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TNOE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #48
69. I would really like to know/hear more about this
just a young school girl in those days. I'm so freaking busy today, but I am going to bookmark this thread anyway - so if you'd like to espouse a little - that would be great.
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No2W2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. There is a purpose,

("Typical American") "OMG, they cut that poor man's head off! Those terrorist bastards! Who cares about those "frat prank" pictures? The terrorist are savages! We must have revenge! Kill! Kill! Kill! This just shows what they are capable of...first 9-11 now this!"
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Bombtrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #21
28. All you have to look at is that the bloodier Iraq get's and the faster
the bloodshed comes, the more this administrations numbers slide and America loses confidence in Bush. There is absolutely no reason to beleive that this would be a reverse exception and that based on that the FBI murders an America. The vast majority of US intelligence agents are good people much less murderers.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. Well, let's just blame this one on a few rotten apples also
Edited on Tue May-11-04 02:10 PM by Tinoire
Bush & Sharon want an eternal war with the Arab world. You really think the life of a few Americans here and there mean anything to them?

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MidwestMomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #31
113. Exactly..that's what an Iraqi blogger posted
How come when the 4 American contractors were killed and mutilated, the Americans blamed and punished an entire town. How come Iraqi's and Muslims are not allowed to have a few 'bad apples'?

I've come to the conclusion that the war on 'terror' is actually a genocidal campaign against all Muslims. The rhetoric is always that we won't be safe until 'they' are destroyed. When 'they' equals Muslims, does that not equal genocide?

Wanted to post a link to CNN article about Nick Berg that I didn't see in your post. Interesting that he traveled to several third world countries to 'help spread technology'.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/11/berg.victim.a...

One of many questions I have is this: what kind of war are we involved in where civilians can go in and out of country and wander around the country at will. Seems there would be a bit more control of who goes in and out and where in a war zone. One more proof that this war is about the profit, not anybody's freedom.

Rumor of FBI investigating the case. I think we were better off when terrorists acts were investigated by law and order agencies and suspects were apprehended and punished. Our new method of punishing the suspected terrorists through military might seems not to be working so well.

My daughter and I were talking about the terrorist acts of the 80's and it seems that mostly those people were caught. Or is that just my fuzzy memory again? It's hell getting old....

God, I feel so sorry for this man's family. One more life sucked into the black hole that is Iraq.

sigh
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #113
115. Thanks!
<snip>

Berg's father said his son was Jewish and had a fringed religious cloth with him, but he did not think Berg wore the clothing in public. Still, "there's a better chance than not that they knew he was Jewish," Michael Berg said. "If there was any doubt that they were going to kill him that probably clinched it, I'm guessing."

<snip>

His father said Berg returned from his trip to Ghana emaciated because he gave away most of his food, and the only possessions he had were the clothes on his back.

"That's the kind of passion we're dealing with here," Michael Berg said.

<snip>

He saw his trip to Iraq, his father said, as an adventure, but one that fit into his ideology. He was a war supporter and backed the Bush administration.He helped set up electronics equipment at the Republican National Convention in Philadelphia in 2000.

After working for a Texas company, Nick Berg went into business for himself in West Chester, near Philadelphia. Berg flew to Iraq on Royal Jordanian airlines, his father said. His father thought that would be the route he would take out of Iraq and even showed up at Kennedy Airport in New York in hopes of picking him up March 30.

<snip>

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/11/berg.victim.a...
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #115
117. Have you seen the video of the beheading?
I think I'd like to view it, if you have a link I'd appreciate it if you'd let me know.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #117
120. No. Believe it not, I haven't. I have many times requested a link
Edited on Tue May-11-04 10:46 PM by Tinoire
but gotten nowhere yet.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #120
140. Here's a link to the video
Here is the original link, but the video has been removed.

http://www.homelandsecurityus.com/iraq2vediom.wmv


The site belongs to "Northeast Intelligence Network" and is run by Douglas Hagmann. Doug is one of those self-made al Qaeda, terrorist 'experts' that Tom Ridge likes to use as one of his private intel sources. Odd that this fellow who is such a tool for HS, should be the first one to put this video out there?

http://www.homelandsecurityus.com/faq.asp


This site also had a copy of the video, but now it's gone:

http://www.soulsurvivors.net/Public/iraq2vediom.wmv

However, I do believe you might be able to find a copy here:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~jvdkuyp/iraq2vedio2.rm.ram


One thing for folks who want to avoid the gruesome stuff. The first half of the video is rather benign. It's not until the end when they finish reading their statement that the bad stuff happens.





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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #140
141. Thanks & yes that is extemely odd that "Douglas Hagmann"
first had the tape. Strange that the "Northeast Intelligence Network" and these self-made "Al Qaeda" experts got this first.

This world has become such a mad place.

Thank you :hug:
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #113
181. Boy!! You are one clear headed thinking person
and you have made many good points to think about.

:yourock:
Wish more folks thought like MidwestMomma,'eh?
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No2W2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #28
35. It probably was not agents that killed him,
but it's not too hard to imagine that some rumors could have been floated out about him after he was released. If he was murdered in April, why are we just now finding out about it. I don't mean to :tinfoilhat: but it just seems to be convienent for the shrubbers that this is comming out right now.
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Timefortruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #35
149. Bingo.
That's conclusive that the American torture pictures and this horrific event are unrelated.

Is there a single place where I can get caught up on this issue? I'm missing why the FBI held him, why he was in prison orange at his murder and why he couldn't get out of Iraq through the Bagdad airport.
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mmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #28
67. Bush has everything to gain by this
In the eyes of the stupid American people, this video will
justify the prison torture; this will inflame the
spirit of nationalism and allow Bush to ramp up and widen
his rape of innocent people.
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #13
27. Ask yourself: Who killed Daniel Pearl, and what is al Qaeda?
Pearl was killed because he was rooting out al Qaeda's client relationship to Pakistani intelligence, which in turn acts as a client of the CIA in Central Asia.

Was Pearl killed by Americans? No. But he was delivered into the hands of assets of US intelligence, whether or not they knew it.

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Bombtrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. You state these things like you know them to be true. You don't
And neither do I. But the pre assigned guilt you chose to target people with is towards your countries law enforcement and intelligence on a widescale basis always before the religious kooks, that's pretty sick and disturbing in my opinion.
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #32
43. But there are things I know to be true, and so should you.
The ISI sponsors al Qaeda. Mahmood Ahmed, ISI head, authorized al Qaeda asset Saeed Sheikh to wire $100,000 to Atta the summer of 2001, and happened to be in Washington the week of 9/11.

Lots more here, backed up by cites to the mainstream press, if you're interested

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/main/mahmoo...
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/main/saeeds...

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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #43
160. I have my true stories and a photographic memory for certain facts too.
:hi:
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #13
110. No, FBI doesn't do stuff like that -- at least not overseas
I have no idea what they do in the U.S.

However, the CIA does. (And probably the NSA????) And who knows about all the mercenaries, the "private armies" which can be pressed into service of our various OGA ("Other Governmental Agencies")?


I'm not convinced Tinoire's "theory" is the whole answer, but I've been around the block enough times to NEVER dismiss a so-called "conspiracy theory" -- no, I take that back. It goes further than that. I automatically distrust everything my government tells us. Everything. Automatically. If the facts later prove I was wrong in my original assumptions, terrific. Most of the time, however, that's not the way it works. In fact, I can't think of a single instance where that's been the case.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #110
111. Hi Eloriel
Edited on Tue May-11-04 08:39 PM by Tinoire
:sad smile: Good to have your input & good to see you. I'm not convinced it's the whole answer either. There are other aspects of this that bother me but I'm having trouble and look forward to help from people like you who originally drew me to this site with your great work on PNAC, 9-11 etc...

What a horrid day, horrid week, horrid year, horrid last 3.5 years.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #13
126. Yes it does. It allows the *us* vs *them* mentallity and serves to
distract from the prisoner abuse going on under American command.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #126
163. Throw the blood in the water
and the sharks will come, eh? :SIGH: :hi:

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HuskerDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #13
198. I agree with you Bombtrack
Edited on Wed May-12-04 10:02 PM by HuskerDem
Adding that public knowledge of his detainment by the "coalition" is just providing further proof of their utter and total incompetence.

I don't see conspiracy here. Sorry. I see a kid who made a really unwise decision, a family whose darkest fears are now being carved into a slate of granite somewhere and a this war which came riding in on that fabled pale horse has now shown the face of it's master.

War kills your humanity before it takes your life. It doesn't care which side you are on because there is plenty of inhumanity to go around for all.

Buschco can't seem to piss into a rowboat without spilling. You (tinfoil brigaders) give them too much power. I'm sure it would tickle them to no end to see you ascribing such a fearsome and blood chilling plan to them. Might even give Chaney a woody.

Inhumanity, retaliation and revenge are expected and ordinary reactions to the actions of US troops in Iraqi prisons. While it may be somehow easier for some of us to blame this on Bushco than it is for us to accept the logical, that our illegal occupation and war and brutal abuse has cost the life of an innocent at the hands of extremists, I believe the logical answer in this instance is also the truth.

Don't worry; ultimately, Bergs blood is still on Bushes hands.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #13
205. You know Bombtrack
Since we've never agreed on a single issue here, especially not Justice in the Middle East, this comes as no surprise.

If you think it serves no purpose then gee, what can I say :shrug:
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LeahMira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #13
224. The purpose is intimidation.
our main federal law enforcement and investigation
agency is not going to cut an Americans head off because it serves us no purpouse.


I'm not sure I'm "getting it" either, but I remember that AIM activist John Trudell's family died in a house fire just hours after he burned the American flag in DC. That was back in the early 1970s (1973?) in the days of COINTELPRO... and it's just one example of the cost of speaking out for the things you believe in.

It would certainly send a signal to any person who dared to oppose this administration, and it would give anyone else who is considering taking a public stand a very serious cause to pause.

For ourselves, I don't think most of us are worried and we are willing to take the personal consequences for whatever we do, but I do think we would have a hard time knowing that those we love might suffer for what we did. That would be one hell of a burden to live with.
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TNOE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
14. I will say it again
You are AMAZING. thanks for this.
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ant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
18. implied but not explicitly stated in your post
Is the fact that Berg was released by the U.S. before he tried "finding his way home." He hasn't been in US custody since the beginning of April.

I don't see what's so difficult to believe about him being kidnapped and then executed. It's not like the US has a patent on orange jumpsuits, after all, they are sort of a universal symbol for "prisoner." If the execution was in revenge for abuse of Iraqi prisoners then it makes perfect sense. Besides, if he *was* sort of just traveling around Iraq on his own, looking for work, he's precisely the sort of guy that's likely to get picked up by both sides.

I just don't see the need for conspiracy here, I guess. Can't bad things just happen anymore?
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. All that can be said is 'wait and see'.
We will know what happened by how it is used.
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ant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #24
40. we know how it'll be used
The right will blame the media/leftists for showing the pictures in the first place.

The left will blame the abuse and the kidnappers (this is where I would be).

The media will blame everyone but themselves - except for a few articles "exploring the media's role" in all of it. At the same time, they will manage to give the right's theory more coverage than the left's.

The leftover people will blame the CIA.


Everyone's already got their mind made up. Note that those pushing for conspiracy seem to be ignoring the very simple fact that this guy was no longer in US custody. They're trying to make it sound like this guy was kidnapped from a US prison or something.
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Bluzmann57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #18
29. Thank you for that
It seems that every time something bad happens there are all kinds of people in here who start screaming "conspiracy". Not everything is a conspiracy, people. It is getting to the point that if and when there really is a conspiracy about something or other, nobody will believe it. The boy who cried wolf syndrome. Prayers out to Mr. Berg's family. May he Rest in Peace and may his executioners rot in hell. And just for the record, I do believe that this administration is at least indirectly responsible for this young man's death, due to the prisoner abuse.
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Bo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-04 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #29
236. Tin Foil Hat Time
Thats it its coming on
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #18
133. Ok think about this for a minute.
FBI visits his parent March 31. THey file suit against the US on April 5 for illegally holding their son in a Iraqi prison. They release him on April 6, probably so he could go to a hotel and contact his parents and tell them that he had been released. I think it is a perfect cover story don't you?
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ant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #133
169. it's also perfectly reasonable
Anything could be a good cover story; that doesn't mean it actually is.
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Timefortruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #18
150. But why did the FBI hold him?
And why couldn't he leave through Bagdad?
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ant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #150
168. to question him?
He was apparently wandering around Iraq on his own, so they picked him up to question him about what he was doing there. That doesn't seem outlandish to me at all. Seems perfectly reasonable, in fact.

As for why he couldn't leave through Baghdad, I don't know the he couldn't. But even if he couldn't, this also doesn't strike me as a big deal. They set him free, told him to leave Iraq, so he went about trying to do that. I don't know what the conditions on the ground are regarding that sort of thing, but weren't some other people captured/killed on their way out through neighboring countries, thinking it was safer? Maybe that's just the way people are doing it and so that's the advice he was given.
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
20. I Googled his company's name and came up with this...
The original story is gone, but Google still has this in it's cache...

Posted by: Editor on Saturday, May 08, 2004 - 09:14 PM

The Associated Press

WEST CHESTER, Pa. (AP) Nick Berg was on his way out of Iraq. He had been released from the prison where he had been held for 13 days by Iraqi police for reasons he said he did not know. He had made his way from Mosul to his Baghdad hotel. He was finished with being an independent civilian contractor and was coming home to West Chester.

That was April 9. A month later, Berg's parents, Michael and Suzanne, still haven't heard from him. They've gone from concerned to frantic.

"Our hopes are that he's still in hiding or en route and traveling in a very slow manner," Michael Berg said.

A spokesman for the Coalition Provisional Authority in Iraq who tracks the number of civilians missing in that country was unavailable for comment. But in mid-April, coalition spokesman Dan Senor said during a news briefing in Baghdad that about 40 people from 12 countries were missing and presumed hostages.

Nick Berg, 26, owns a business called Prometheus Methods Tower Service Inc. He climbs communications towers to inspect the antennas, the electrical connections and the structure. He first went to Iraq on Dec. 21.

He stayed until Feb. 1, making contact with a company that indicated there would likely be work for him later. But he returned on March 14 and there was no work, so he began traveling. He usually called home once a day and e-mailed several times; Michael Berg is his business manager, and they needed to stay in touch.

They spoke on March 24, and Nick Berg told his parents he was coming home on March 30. Then the communications stopped, and he wasn't on the plane on March 30.

When FBI agents arrived at the Berg's West Chester home on March 31, they were relieved to know their son was alive, but in jail. The agents questioned them about various details that only they and their son would know about.

Jerri Williams, spokeswoman for the Philadelphia FBI office, said the agency was "asked to interview the parents regarding Mr. Berg's purpose in Iraq."

On April 5, the Bergs filed suit in federal court in Philadelphia, contending that their son was being held illegally by the U.S. military in Iraq.

The next day, April 6, Nick Berg was released. He told his parents he had been riding in a taxi on March 24 when he was arrested by Iraqi officials at a checkpoint in Mosul. He told his parents he had not been mistreated.

Nick Berg said he would come home through Jordan, Turkey or Kuwait. But by then, hostilities in Iraq had escalated, and Michael Berg said they have not heard from their son since.

The Bergs have hounded the State Department, the FBI and the International Committee of the Red Cross, seeking information. Michael Berg said the State Department sent an official to Nick Berg's hotel, where an employee told the official they had not heard of him.

The Bergs hired a private investigator, who talked to an American hotel guest who said he remembered Nick Berg.

Sometimes, they tell themselves their son "is a resourceful fellow who can take care of himself," Michael Berg said.

"Other times we think perhaps he was dead on April 10," he said. "My worst fear is that I'll never hear anything."

http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:G-JgMJAVkkgJ:www.i...


You might want to save it before it's gone too...
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Another link here: / and story YANKED from Iraqi.net
Edited on Tue May-11-04 02:08 PM by Tinoire
West Chester contractor missing in Iraq
http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/news/politic...

That's the story (same one) that first tipped me off.

=========

The story was also posted here: www.iraq.net/displayarticle3531.html

It's been YANKED from there but still available in cache: http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cache:G-JgMJAVkkgJ:www.i...


I tried repeatedly to get it from there; 3 of the times I got a VERY strange message I had never seen before.

What is www.iraq.net ? Who runs it? The wnetire site is down now.
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gulfcoastliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #23
30. Wow. Superb job, Tinoire.
This shit is incredible. Throat tightening, vile, evil actions you uncovered. How long until this sort of thing starts happening stateside?
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TX-RAT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #23
34. Was Berg one of the five hung from the overpass?
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #34
39. I believe he is the one who was decapitated today on film
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #39
45. Yes. That was confirmed... He said his name
Edited on Tue May-11-04 02:46 PM by Tinoire
said his sisters name.. said the name of his father, his mother... It's in one of the stories.

On edit: here it is:


The video showed five men wearing headscarves and black ski masks, standing over a bound man in an orange jumpsuit -- similar to a prisoner's uniform -- who identified himself as Nick Berg, a U.S. contractor whose body was found on a highway overpass in Baghdad on Saturday.

"My name is Nick Berg, my father's name is Michael, my mother's name is Susan," the man said on the video. "I have a brother and sister, David and Sarah. I live in ... Philadelphia."

After reading a statement, the men were seen pulling the man to his side and putting a large knife to his neck. A scream sounded as the men cut his head off, shouting "Allahu Akbar!" -- "God is great." They then held the head out before the camera.

Berg was a small-business owner from the Philadelphia suburbs, his family said Tuesday.

"For the mothers and wives of American soldiers, we tell you that we offered the U.S. administration to exchange this hostage with some of the detainees in Abu Ghraib and they refused," one of the men read from a statement.

<snip>

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/world/...
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #45
47. I watched it...
...and collapsed in tears for several minutes. This guy....., was two years younger than me. He could have been my friend, my roommate, my drinking buddy.

I hope he found his way to the Good Place. May God have mercy.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #47
55. I found it but haven't yet. Don't know if I have the strength
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fortyfeetunder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #55
208. Something does not look right.
Edited on Thu May-13-04 12:02 AM by fortyfeetunder
message self-deleted
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fortyfeetunder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #55
209. Something does not look right.
Those were some well fed "executioners"...I wanna know who in the eff has been feeding them...maybe I already know....oh my dear...!
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dpibel Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #34
80. Four. Bridge. n/t

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SahaleArm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #23
42. iraq.net
CyberTent Consulting (IRAQ2-DOM)
38139 Spring Lane
Farmington Hills, MI 48331 US
Domain Name: IRAQ.NET

Administrative Contact:
Kareem, Sam (CCKFCUJLUI) skareem@YAHOO.COM
Cybertent Consulting
38139 Spring Lane
Farmington Hills, MI 48331 US
248-474-7169

Record expires on 21-Dec-2005.
Record created on 22-Dec-1995.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #42
46. It's a US run site for the Opposition
Thank you!!



Title IraqNet Information Network

Publisher: CyberTent Consulting, Farmington Hills (MI), US

Distributor: Law Offices of Garmo & Garmo, Farmington Hills (MI), US

Language: English

Country: (Server) United States of America

Format of data: text/html

Keywords: Iraq; news; links; music; pictures

Description: Info page on Iraq, containing articles and reports, all kinds of news, links to Iraqi web sites and much more.

URL: http://www.iraq.net /

-----

Despite the high level of international interest in and attention regarding Iraq and the presence oflarge migr communities in Europe and North America, there are relatively few Worldwide Websites dedicated to Iraq or sponsored by Iraqi opposition groups. The busiest site is that of Iraq Net(www.iraq.net ), which is maintained by CyberTent Consulting in Michigan and has had several hundred thousand visitors since its inception. The two principal opposition groups, the Iraqi National Congress (INC) and the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq (SCIRI), arebased in London, UK, and maintain Web pages on servers in that city (www.inc.org.uk andourworld.compuserve.com/ homepages/sciri/, respectively). Both pages provide news reports,mainly from their own sources, and links to other sitesregarding the situation in Iraq. The INC site has been on-linefor almost eight months, and averages more than 3,000 visitsper month. The INC site also has a link to the UK Web site ofthe Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK) (www.puk.org ), oneof the two Kurdish groups fighting for control of northern Iraq(Figure 39). The other group, the Kurdistan Workers Party(PKK), does not appear to have its own presence on the Web,although there appear to be hundreds of Web pages in theGerman and Turkish languages regarding the PKK in Austria,Germany, and Switzerland. A Dutch group claiming solidaritywith the PKK maintains a site in the Netherlands (www.xs4all.nl/~stk/ ) that posts official PKK documents.

mosaic.unomaha.edu/GDI1998/7DIRAQ.PDF

-------------------
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hedda_foil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #46
51. So Chalabi's group conveniently gets the video up on their site.
Interesting, Tinoire. Very interesting, indeed. As is the timing, with Inhofe literally setting it up for us. Yeah, it stinks to high heaven of black ops. Now what about that so-called AlQuaeda clearing house website with the conveniently timed announcement? Is that a CIA black op too?
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. Hi. I haven't watched it yet
Edited on Tue May-11-04 03:53 PM by Tinoire
:hi:

I don't know if they had the video too. I was trying to get to a story and found it rather curious that I couldn't and kept trying, got that strange message a few times, and then presto, down.

Just tried again and got that same weird message:

Problem in Database Connection


This Website is powered by PostNuke


Although this site is running the PostNuke software
it has no other connection to the PostNuke Developers.
Please refrain from sending messages about this site or its content
to the PostNuke team, the end will result in an ignored e-mail.
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kiahzero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #53
145. That means their server is getting too much traffic to handle
Either that, or their web engineers screwed up somewhere.
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PaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #23
95. What kind of strange message?
What did it say, or look like??
Has anyone been on Faux? When I clicked there, a weird red whatever popped up and then went to normal...Anyone know anything about this??
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nomaco-10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
36. Nothing about this story makes sense to me right now....
Why would you travel to Iraq for what appears to amount to a job interview? Wouldn't that be arranged thru the company right here in the US that was contracting labor? Was Berg CIA or some kind of operative cut loose by the CIA?

Why would he be detained and then be told by the American occupiers to "go home" and just be released into the dangerous streets of a country at war? Doesn't it make sense that the US would arrange for a safe exit for any American civilian that they felt was in danger and who clearly expressed a desire to leave.

No, I'm not exactly sure what's going on here, but we'll never get the truth from the corporate media.
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DU GrovelBot  Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
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TNOE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
44. FreeRepublic yanked that site now
Edited on Tue May-11-04 02:29 PM by TNOE
calling for the murder of the dissenters against their God Bush.
They were pretty quick on the draw there.

This One:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1092851/posts

CONGRATULATIONS FREEPERS!
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #44
50. I remember that site. Reading this FR site just made me ill. They were
turning people in! In that thread, they are turning all those people in because if you support justice for the Palestinians, you are a terrorist lover.

My God. The witch-hunt is officially on.

They turned people in to their employers, associations, commanders etc for signing ANSWER's statement.

Fucking Nazis.
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TNOE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #50
54. You have really nailed something here
this is huge. I hope someone refreshes the Freepers memory that they wanted "these" people dead............. I'd love to see what they're saying - but no time today!

Thank God not all of us are as stupid as the Bush* administration would like to believe.
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fortyfeetunder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #44
210. What? DU didn't make the list?
Couldn't round up the entire natiion, could they?
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goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
49. very curious
thanks Tinoire
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the_real_38 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
52. Interesting stuff here...
... good work
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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #52
57. PLEASE CAPTURE THOSE PAGES
If you ever see a page like that on freerepublic, capture it to your hard drive. American Politics Journal keeps an archive of their hate rants.

It could also be used as evidence.

Just hit the "save as" button on your toolbar and save it, and then send to American Politics Journal.

Damn. I'm sorry this one got away.
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TNOE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #57
62. Grab it quick
Edited on Tue May-11-04 03:39 PM by TNOE
Earlier I was getting error messages....

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1092851/posts


Listed:
Michael S. Berg, Teacher, Prometheus Methods Tower Service, Inc.,
West Chester, PA
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #57
66. I got the thread. All of it- to include the names in case the Berg
family ever needs it.

Wish I had thought of this when they had the hate site up but they already got in hot water for that one.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
56. The killers are WHITE
Edited on Tue May-11-04 03:25 PM by Tinoire
according to the people who watched the video.

White SNEAKERS

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

I haven't watched it yet but soon it will be available here: www.dilby.com

Check out the new details on the prison torture scandal while you're there.

---

The web site www.dilby.com has received information that the Pentagon possesses three disks of photos that contain pictures of soldiers having sex with each other in addition to other sexually explicit activity. There are also confirmed photos of soldiers playing with detainee's genetials with glow-sticks. Some prisoners were forced to perform sexual acts and masturbate for soldiers according to multiple sources.

Other allegations and information received include young detainees being raped and there might be possible pictures coming in within the coming weeks of this incident. The rape incidents, according to sources have nothing to do with the current prisoner situation, but for some reason it's tied to Abu Ghraib. Dilby was also told by Washington sources that the pictures will be released by an unknown Pentagon source. The pictures will be sent from the Pentagon using a wireless connection, thus using some other Internet connection via another unencrypted network so the IP (Internet Protocol) address isn't traced back to the Pentagon.

The pictures should be released after the handover of Iraqi because the Bush Administration does not want to fuel more anti-American sentiment. The video in question is so graphic that it might incite an all-out campaign against the occupation in Iraqi.

The three disks at the Pentagon have supposedly been copied on a laptop computer then transferred back onto three more disk. Whether the disk have been copied multiple times has yet to be determined.

<snip>
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mopaul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #56
58. in the old west, cowboys dressed up like indians and killed folks
so the indians would be blamed and a huge slaughter of indians could be justified
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bhunt70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #56
61. There are possibly lighter skinned Iraqis or lighting...
I don't think it is definitive that they are white.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #56
191. The killers are white. I watched it. The one on the far right
Is whiter than Berg. The Arab translators say there was no Jordian accents.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #191
206. The one on the right was the worst one! n/t
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fortyfeetunder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #56
211. Tinoire, excellent point
When I noticed the postures and the build of these men, as I said in a previous post, these men look well fed, and I don't think they were the ones talking..So I question if these were anyone but Murkans....
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MallRat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
59. Something is clearly wrong here.
But is it wrong ENOUGH to warrant the attention of an investigative journalist from one of the major networks?

-MR
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
60. This happened after Berg was released from US custody...
...so this begs the questions: Why was he being held in the first place? Why was he essentially cut loose and left on his own without US protection of any kind?

- These questions have been asked before...but I'd really like to know the answers. Certainly US authorities KNEW there was a good chance he would be captured if left to make his own way home?
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Desertrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
63. great work Tinoire...we need to keep this kicked
there is sooo much more to this.....so much more....
Ya gotta have a really really strong stomach to dig around in this sh*t these days....
I am so sad.....................
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goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #63
65. indeed
there is more to this
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chookie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
68. Question about dates
Anyone know why young Mr Berg was over there in the first place?

When was Nick being held and interrogated -- what two weeks was it?

Had he been released from prison between 3/31 and April 9?

Anyone have an idea when he disappeared, or fell into the hands of captors? How long between prison and disappearing?

Why was an American travelling in Iraq arrested, detained and interrogated? Why was it necessary to keep him so long? Was he suspected as somehow aiding Iraqi combatants?

It would appear that he has been missing for approx a month. In the past, Iraqis and Al Qaeda have made a very big deal when they have a captive, and are prone to parade him or her in front of cameras to show off their trophy and possibly make demands. When did we first find out he was in the hands of people who might kill him?

Gee -- the right wing is going to have real problems with this guy, because it appears he was against the war, so they can't do their prayer-and-yellow-ribbons-and-vengence schtick. Here they have an American they hoped they could use the brutality of Iraqis to justify their cherished war and use to downplay the Iraqi POW scandal -- but the murdered man turns out to be not one of "theirs" or someone they can readily use.

Also -- any other Americans who have been detained (by Coalition) in this fashion?

Finally -- can anyone please explain to me the significance of the privacy waiver -- I do not know what this is and its relevance to this case.
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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #68
70. He was released April 6
and disappeared shortly afterward. His Dad remarked "Other times we think perhaps he was dead on April 10", so it wasn't more than a few days.

Nick wasn't against the war, he was a supporter. It was his Dad who was anti-war.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #70
71. Kick!
:kick:
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goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #70
73. He called home April 9 n/t
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Timefortruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #70
152. Was he released in prison orange?
I bet he was, with a bullseye on his back.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #68
74. One quibble
Edited on Tue May-11-04 04:49 PM by Tinoire
He wasn't against this war. His family was but he wasn't:


"...Berg's mother, Suzanne Berg, said her son was in Iraq to help rebuild communication antennas.

"He had this idea that he could help rebuild the infrastructure," she said.

Michael Berg described himself as fervently anti-war, but said his son disagreed with him.

"He was a Bush supporter," Berg said. "He looked at it as bringing democracy to a country that didn't have it."

http://pennlive.com/newsflash/pa/index.ssf?/base/news-1...
-----------------------------

I'm interested in the answers to your questions too.

As far as this one goes

It would appear that he has been missing for approx a month. In the past, Iraqis and Al Qaeda have made a very big deal when they have a captive, and are prone to parade him or her in front of cameras to show off their trophy and possibly make demands. When did we first find out he was in the hands of people who might kill him?


I IMMEDIATELY searched the news before the web got flooded with this story and found nothing about him having been a captive. I found nothing dated before May 8. Nothing. Not even on Arabic sites translated into English.


On edit: Just saw it was you! Hi Chookie :sad smile:
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dpibel Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
72. Do I have this timeline right?
Edited on Tue May-11-04 05:25 PM by dpibel
Edited for typos. Type in haste, repent at leisure.

So, there are some 40 civilians missing in Iraq. This guy was missing for about a month.

On May 7 and 8 news stories come out about his being missing. An odd bit of timing, given that he hadn't just gone missing, and that his parents had been actively looking for information, apparently pretty much the whole time.

Why did it coincidentally become news just three days before the release of grisly footage of his murder? Surely not because the beheading would have much greater impact if he'd already been established as an innocent fella looking for work, with a concerned family.

Y'know, before the current administration, I looked at political machinations with a jaundiced eye. But I never took the approach that nothing is as it seems.

I think that's what happens when the people at the highest level of government demonstrate, time after time, that they'd as soon lie as look at you, and that no information that they put out is trustworthy.

It doesn't help to have major incidents surrounded by odd circumstances: A guy gets murdered after he's released from US custody, the coincidental attention to his case just before the murder. Things like that.

Fact is, most things in life aren't so neatly plotted. Too many things surrounding the ruling cabal are.

For all you hardheaded realists out there: People who ask questions, when there are obvious questions to be asked, are not always weak-minded people fending off mind rays with tinfoil hats. If there are questions, there are questions.

Note that I have not suggested who did what to whom or why. There are theories aplenty, and there's no way to know that part of the story. If the coincidences are just that, fine. I have no dog in the hunt. I do have questions, and anyone who wants to call them illegitimate, tell my why they are, rather than just screeching "tinfoil."

An aside to the poster in this thread who is baffled by what the administration could possibly gain from this incident: Support for George's big adventure is flagging. The press is not playing right and, as with all previous dangerous stories, dropping the torture story. This story helps both those problems: it reignites the bloodlust necessary for support of an illegal war; it provides a story irresistible to the press which contains worse images than the ones so far from Abu Ghraib and does it, conveniently, when the news is full of "worse to come." Don't you think the public will be less shocked by video (or accounts thereof) of Iraqi prisoners being raped and beaten to death when that same public has just seen (or heard about) video of an American being beheaded in a particularly gruesome way? This doesn't strike me as analytic rocket science.
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goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #72
75. sounds about right
well said
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Imalittleteapot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #72
76. kick
:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #72
77. Great post! So good to have you at DU n/t
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Solidarity Donating Member (518 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #77
78. There Should Be A Full Investigation Of This
Edited on Tue May-11-04 05:00 PM by Solidarity
There should be a full investigation of this. Why was Nick Berg held for 13 days as a prisoner by U.S. authorities in Iraq? Why was he not permitted access to a lawyer or telephone while held in confinement? Why was he wearing what appears to be a standard orange prison jumpsuit, the kind worn by U.S. prisoners in Cuba, when executed.

Berg's parents were against the war and occupation in Iraq. Could their son have been handed over to terrorists in Iraq or could the entire incident be a COINTELPRO type operations by the CIA?

I don't know, but we need to get to the bottom of this. It just sounds very, very fishy. I'm not a conspiracy buff but from what we have learned about government counter-intelligence and disruption operations anything seems possible today.

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Kukesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #72
105. Kick!
Edited on Tue May-11-04 07:38 PM by Kukesa
n/t
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crossroads Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #72
131. Good points! {{{shiver}}}
:scared:
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #72
166. I agree, the *coincidences* are too overwhelming to dismiss entirely.
Also interesting is the new dispute between the Gov and the mans family.

The US denies having him in custody, the family says they did. :(
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leftistagitator Donating Member (701 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
79. Let me see if I understand this
Nick Berg, son of antiwar activist Micheal Berg, goes to Iraq claiming to look for work. He is doesn't do any work, and begins travelling Iraq. The US military picks him up to figure out what he's doing in Iraq, and illegally interrogates him for weeks. After his parents threaten a lawsuit they release him and insist he return home, but don't let him use Baghdad airport. Right after he is released he is picked up by European looking arabs, and executed with him still wearing his prison jumpsuit. There is a foul wind blowing, something is definitely not right with this story.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #79
81. That sums what I found out rather well. The ariport
bit is exceedingly strange.
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Killarney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #79
82. Good summary
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jackstraw45 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #79
84. Kicking this summary
There needs to be some SERIOUS investigation of this. Whoever did this, whether Arab or not, needs to be brought to justice.

I wish there was an real press left in this country.
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Elbowroom Donating Member (257 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #79
87. antiwar activist?
where does that info come from?
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leftistagitator Donating Member (701 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #87
88. Free Republic

It is the last thing listed on the parent thread.

"MARCH 20, 2004


GLOBAL DAY OF ACTION
on the FIRST ANNIVERSARY of the U.S. BOMBING and INVASION of IRAQ


Bring the troops home now!


End colonial occupation from Iraq to Palestine and everywhere!


Money for jobs, education, healthcare and housing - Not war!
Stop the attacks on civil rights and civil liberties!
Madison Square Park (Madison Ave. & 23rd St.) in New York City, Dolores Park in San Francisco, Hollywood and Vine in Los Angeles, Michigan & Pearson in Chicago, and in cities across the U.S.


<snip of all the names they posted>

Michael S. Berg, Teacher, Prometheus Methods Tower Service, Inc.,
West Chester, PA

<snip>

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1092851/posts



CONGRATULATIONS FREEPERS! "
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Justice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #79
92. A Bit More on Berg To Add To the Mix
We read in several articles that Berg owned a business called Prometheus Methods Tower Service Inc. The business was to climb and inspect communications towers. Fairly interesting business for a 26 year old.

But, I couldn't find a company website and the company does not show up in PA as a corporation or other entity (although it is described as an "Inc."

If go to this PA SOS website - search "Prometheus" under corporations - nothing comes up under the exact name - or any name and town that matches our guy and his business.

http://www.dos.state.pa.us/DOS/site/default.asp

https://www.dos.beta.state.pa.us/corpsapp/corpsweb/wfde...
If go to this PA SOS website - search "Prometheus" under corporations - nothing comes up under the exact name - or any name and town that matches our guy and his business.

It also does not appear as a company in Delaware (which is the most likely alternate state of incorporation outside of his home state -
https://sos-res.state.de.us/tin/controller

I did find this article - http://www.kyw1060.com/news_story_detail.cfm?newsitemid...

"Dave Skalish, a former engineer at KYW Newsradio and the current engineer for our sister station WPHT in Philadelphia, knew Nick Berg well.

Skalish says he had known Berg for two years because of his business working on radio towers. Skalish says he was very professional, eager and energetic about his work and "loved being up in the air working on radio towers."

"Skalish says he's stunned by the apparent violent nature of Berg's death. He says he felt Berg had a good command of the region and had traveled to the Middle East several times and did his homework:" (Again not to be alarmist but interesting for a 26 year old to travel to the middle east several times I think).

Finally, I did find him mentioned here - Association web-site page indicating different companies that do tower work - lists Promethus Methods and says Nick Berg liked Broadcast work, overseas work and his company did not have a website.

http://www.tower-pro.net/member_links/members_without.h...

Bottom line - There is very little out there about Nick Berg and his company.


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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
83. Haven't been able to find this story in the Middle Eastern press
Not even al Jazeera (last time I looked). Seems to me that this story of revenge would go over well there. What gives?

http://www.thebigproject.co.uk/news/
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
85. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
leftistagitator Donating Member (701 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #85
91. The only thing this is good for is bloodrage
And the Right already has started using this politically. I put FOX on for just one minute and was told that the Lefts "silence on this issue" is deafening, and that the Left doesn't care about American lives. The chance for bipartisan outrage flew out the window, * is trying to use this boy as a shield for his own misdeeds. Your right, this was not just, it was revenge. When the torture story broke everyone, left and right, agreed that this would lead to retribution. The Right then took a curious turn and started saying that torture was justified if it saved lives. Now they've been exposed for the fools that they are, torture didn't save any lives, and now it's officially cost us one of our boys.

I don't know what the point is about playing this tape to the American public. Didn't 9/11 prove that they were willing to kill civilians? The torture photos show something we didn't know, that we have adopted Saddams tactics. We claim that we don't do things like that, Al Queada never claimed it wouldn't kill Americans working in Iraq.
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Timefortruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #91
155. If this starts to sink Faux will drop it faster then you can say
Scarborough's intern.
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alcuno Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #85
93. I probably agree. Let all the information come out.
I want to see every video, every picture, and every military order out there. Let's have an open media and an open government. You are absolutely right.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #85
99. Please. Go weigh in here on the torture scandal threads. n/t
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northofdenali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
86. Tinoire, I've spent the day being confused till I hit your post.
Your post, and that of a number of others in the thread, have cleared up some questions. But there are so many left unanswered, and we must insist that they be addressed.

I hope the Bergs can find some comfort, somehow.

Thanks again, Tinoire. Bookmarking and emailing!
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #86
96. Thanks for getting the word out Northofdenali

This outrage must not stand and this must be FULLY investigated and the real perpetrators brought to justice.
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northofdenali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #96
101. Well, my email "list" is only about 50 people long, BUT
their email lists are about 50 people long...........we'll get the "snowball down the hill from hell" going, I hope.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #101
104. Oh lol
I'll be checking my brake-lines very carefully before going to work and taking a different route everyday ;)

Thanks
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crossroads Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #96
135. I also sent an email to my contacts
asking they read this thread in its entirety with an open mind.
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goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
90. message from Berg parents . . .
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/Tower-pro/message...



Dear Friends and Customers of Nick Berg and Prometheus Towers,

I am enclosing the following news release which my wife and I are about to release to the media for you. If anyone out there in the broadcast industry can do anything to help us spread the word about our son's disappearance especially to the Mid East, we would be very appreciative:

On March 14 our son, Nick Berg, left for Iraq to inspect some radio towers that had been damaged during last year's war. His goal was to secure some contract work for his business, Prometheus Methods Tower Service. He planned to return on March 30 through Amman, Jordan.

On March 24, Nick was picked up by the Iraqi police in Mosul and held for questioning for no apparent reason. He was subsequently detained by the U.S. military and interrogated by the FBI until his release on April 6. No reason was ever given for holding him for these 13 days. Immediately upon his release he emailed the family and proceeded south to Baghdad where he was staying at the Al Fanar Hotel.

On April 9 he called us and said that he was seeking a safe route out of the country either through Jordan, or possibly Turkey. Most of the major routes were closed due to military action around Fallujah. Since that time we have had no contact with our son. No one we know in Iraq has seen or spoken to him, and we know that he has not accessed his email. We are extremely worried about his safety. We are asking anyone who has seen Nick or knows anything about his whereabouts to come forward and give us this information so that he can be safely brought home.

We extend our sympathies to all of the many families who are in the same situation.

Suzanne and Michael Berg
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #90
94. Sigh..............
picked up by the Iraqi police in Mosul and held for questioning for no apparent reason. He was subsequently detained by the U.S. military and interrogated by the FBI until his release on April 6. No reason was ever given for holding him for these 13 days



One of those "joint" patrols I'll bet is what picked him up.

This makes me SO angry. So pained for his family!
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #90
137. I thought an early article said he was there in late December?
"On March 14 our son, Nick Berg, left for Iraq to inspect some radio towers that had been damaged during last year's war."
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
97. Fishy, fishy, fishy, fish
I wonder where that fish has gone.

And it went wherever I did go.

Wouldn't you like to know? It was a lovely little fish.

And it went wherever I did go.

It is a most elusive fish!

And it went wherever I did go.

Ooooh, fishy, fishy, fishy fish!

A-fish, a-fish, a-fish, a-fishy, ooooh.

Ooooh, fishy, fishy, fishy fish!

That went wherever I did go.





Just an opinion. Conveniently fishy. :tinfoilhat:
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
98. Odd coincidence. Very odd - probably unrelated but WTC
Edited on Tue May-11-04 06:51 PM by Tinoire
I was waching it, and the same thing kept going through my mind: who are the idiots who risked their own lives to do this cowardly act? I called many of my friends to make sure their familiers were ok. The first one i called was Nick Berg, whose grandfather helped build the Towers. Thankfully, none of his family members were involved. The second one I called was Larry Bolchune. His dad was in the building 30 minutes before it went down.

<snip>

http://www.triggerfinger.blogspot.com/2001_09_09_trigge...


Just leaving no clue unturned...
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crossroads Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #98
136. That link evaporated...
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
100. Tin foil hat moment and kick
Edited on Tue May-11-04 07:04 PM by nadinbrzezinski
Folks after reading the whole thread it sruck me

26 six year old that travels to the area to get radio towers up

Businesss is not up and up....

Hmmm something smells not only to high heaven but roguish...

on edit, as I suspected he was also Jewish, and of note, just as in
Islam desecrating a body is agaist Jewish Law...

Oh that bit came from AAR news... they asked that question, what was a Jewish man doing in Iraq, alone?
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
102. Everyone here should take a refresher course on opertations
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Wapsie B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
103. Listened to Randi Rhodes today,
and she was saying that a beheading was something a Saudi would do.
Just throwing that out there for your perusal.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #103
107. Interesting! Now for the accent because the Arabs say it wasn't
Zarkawi's voice and not an Iraqi accent even.
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Wapsie B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #107
128. Like I said on another thread,
things aren't always what they may seem to be on the surface. I think there's way more to this story yet to come.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #107
167. OMG .
I have no words.
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Norquist Nemesis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #103
132. That was my first thought too
There was something recently on TV where they were interviewing two people Saudis forced into confessing things through torture. There was a secretly taped video of a public beheading in the square in Saudi Arabia. When I heard about this, I recalled that video immediately.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
106. Because the America we remember is worth fighting for
and the truth is out there :kick:

Fuck the Chicken Hawks
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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
108. al Qaeda did this....al Qaeda said that......
Do we have proof there even IS such a group? Our government has either killed them all off, or they mysteriously disappear. They never seem to get captured alive or talk directly to the press and for all their purported activities they sure seem elusive.

So, for me, the mystery of who killed Nick Berg opens a whole other can of worms...
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #108
116. Dover. I'm with you. I haven't believed in Al-Qaeda from day 1
Edited on Tue May-11-04 09:34 PM by Tinoire
Carlyle! Bin Laden and the Bush family! Bin Laden's brother mysteriously dying after doing a "business deal" with Bush.

Al-Qaeda is nothing but a bunch of loosely-woven lies.

Commies, commies = war on terror. Same thing with Al-Qaeda.

Meanwhile the Bushes, the Bin-Ladens, James Baker, Frank Carlucci, John Majors all sitting on the board of the biggest investment house dealing in Arms and protection from "terror". They're nothing more than the 21st century Mafia seriously enriching themselves & banrupting our country on this futile search for "bin Laden" the bogey-man.

Damn Bush to hell.
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oblivious Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #116
215. Nice to know I'm not alone in my skepticism.
I love reading the "experts" on Al-qaida/terrorism/blah blah.

They just make it up as they go along. They're absolutely full of it. But it gets printed.
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DemonFighterLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
109. The word Prometheus touched a nerve
A year ago, I did a thread about Bush in Space on another website. I ended up confused and lost.
One of my links which is no longer working, led me on this Prometheus search. > this one> http://home.attbi.com/~wizardofwhimsy /
It contained this quote:
Snip...
To develop and demonstrate new power and propulsion technologies to overcome these limitations, the Presidents Budget proposes $279 million; ($3 billion over five years) for Project Prometheus, which builds on the Nuclear Systems Initiative started last year. Project Prometheus includes the development of the first nuclear-electric space mission, called the Jupiter Icy Moons Orbiter. This mission will conduct extensive, in-depth studies of the moons of Jupiter that may harbor subsurface oceans and thus have important implications in the search for life beyond Earth. In addition, it will prove new technologies for future NASA missions

I had other links;
http://www.bushwatch.net/space.htm
http://www.space.noa.gr/hellinomnimon/prometheus.htm
http://www.nuclearspace.com/a_project_prometheus.htm <not working
And deeper yet!
http://www.aci.net/kalliste/columbia_spectral.htm
:freak:
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #109
112. !!! Interesting. Strange... Project Prometheus? n/t
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southlandshari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #109
118. Could this be relevant?
My first post, so be gentle (I've lurked for months, and wish I had for years!)

Interesting site that came up within on a google search for the single word "Prometheus"
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southlandshari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #118
119. link
OK, I'm not TOO embarrassed - forgetting the link in my very first DU post!

Here it is...

http://www.prometheusradio.org /

About Prometheus
Our Mission

To serve as a microradio resource center offering legal, technical, and organizational support for the non-commercial community broadcasters


To research and develop technical resources in anticipation of legalized micro-radio. Upon legalization, we will offer technical services to non-commercial micro-stations- equipment testing, frequency searching, submitting FCC applications, studio advice and so on


To sponsor and produce educational tours, conferences, events and literature on microradio and democratic media issues.


To serve as a public interest advocate on microradio issues, and to help facilitate public participation in the FCC rulemaking and legislative process.


To help start a regional micropower association, which could eventually serve as a self-regulating association for low power fm analagous to the ARRL for HAM radio. Until this is formed, we will perform some of its future functions, primarily performing a coordinating and secretarial role to facilitate communications among existing stations.

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jarab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #119
122. Welcome to DU, southlandshari!

jarab
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southlandshari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #119
124. Prometheus radio project. site appeals to activists and travelers...
Since I'm new I know folks may not trust the link (just search google for Prometheus Radio Project if you don't want to click on the url I posted). I do think it is worth a look. I know Berg's family said he was a supporter of the war; is it possible that was to try to protect him from harm from U.S. forces while in Iraq (none too happy with anti-war activists who traveled there)? This Prometheus Radio Project (at least at a glance) seems to be all about alternative media and disseminating info from countries with little access to grassroots radio/tv....

from the home page of Promotheusradio.org:

Prometheus Returns from Guatemala!
Many Thanks to H.I.J.O.S and Alianza for Their Hard Work!
Prometheus' Technical Director Pete Tridish just returned from building a radio station with the compas of H.I.J.O.S., an organization which represents children of disappeared folks in Guatemala, and Alianza Por La Vida y La Paz, great community organizers outside of Guatemala City. Click here to read more about his incredible experience, and to see some awesome pictures!

Do you want to travel to far-away countries to build radio stations? Learn how you can build, even on a super-tight budget, by clicking here!

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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #119
125. Thank you! And yes it could. ANY fact is revelant in this case
Welcome to DU!

:toast:
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southlandshari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #125
129. Thanks for the welcome...
...jabar and Tinoire! I'm glad I finally made the leap from lurker!

For what it is worth, I worked for two years in the Middle East for the YWCA and came home with a pretty good command of spoken Arabic (plus a husband I sure wasn't looking for but who has turned out to be a keeper!) Anyway, the point is I've maintained my Arabic language from visiting his family and teaching our four-year-old daughter. There are a lot of things that bother me about the Berg video (and I've only made it through the first half before turning it off - three times), and one of them is the very deliberate accent of the reader. As a non-native speaker of Arabic, I know well the difference in one who has learned Arabic in a classroom and one who has picked it up from interaction in a community of native speakers. The difference is quite easy to spot in inflection and tone.

Does anyone know if there is an English translation of the statement read by the "leader" out anywhere (from a trustworthy source)? A co-worker I love to hate emailed me a supposed translation of the video (that I'm afraid he probably got off of FR), and I know it isn't accurate because there is no reference to Jenin, which is one of the only things I could make out clearly in the video clip I saw...

I don't know if I can convince my husband to watch the whole thing and try to translate, but I will try.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #129
142. That's extremely interesting. Please give us an update re the accent
If I find the text from what seems to be a reliable source, I'll PM you & post it here.

Peace
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TexasBushwhacker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 01:40 AM
Response to Reply #125
218. and then there's this ...
.... from the Prometheus Radio Project site, about their staff:

"Pete Tri Dish
Pete triDish was a member of the founding collective of Radio Mutiny, 91.3 FM in Philadelphia in 1996 ...."

http://www.prometheusradio.org/staff.shtml

Although Berg did radio tower work here in the US, it's interesting that no one has been able to find a website, a registration as a business with the state of Pennsylvania, etc. for "Prometheus Methods Tower Service, Inc" etc.

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DemonFighterLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #118
130. Don't know if my links help either.
I just remembered being confounded about Prometheus in the past.

Welcome to DU southlandshari

I watched the video linked from Dilby and they didn't have much reading, just went about the yelling and cutting. It was tough to see or hear anything.
I came away wondering if it could somehow be a trick?
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
114. A couple of questions for those who've watched the tape:
Edited on Tue May-11-04 09:21 PM by Minstrel Boy
I haven't watched, and won't watch, the video, but I read on another board a few observations I haven't seen made here:

The man supposedly reading the pages of Arabic text carries on reading even after he apparently has lost his place. As he flips the pages over and over he appears to keep reading, uninterrupted, without aid of the text. The tone of voice does not change at all. Is he the one really speaking, or is it a recording?

Also, Berg's demeanor is said to be very relaxed, until the moment of his execution. He doesn't appear beaten, or terrified of his captors. Could it be that he was in the hands of people he trusted?
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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #114
121. I dunno about the reader losing his place
though he did do a fair amount of page shuffling once or twice.

The sound in the video was a bit off most of the time, didn't seem to be in sync. Not sure if any of it was dubbed.

Berg's effect was flat in the video. Dunno if I'd characterize it as "relaxed", he may well have been in shock and resigned to his fate.
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Castilleja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #114
123. I was wondering about the flipping back and forth of the papers,
myself. He seems to have only 2 pages, but flips them over and then back and forth in an irregular manner. Irregular at least to my eyes. I thought I should ask if anyone knows how Arabic is read? Or did he indeed lose his place? The voice continues without pause during this.
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #114
147. I don't think it's real
The supposed victim light shades don't match the surrounding and looks super-imposed onto the film. Then also thess folks body language, body shape and style do not look M.E. I only saw the first 20 seconds or so but it seemed fake from then.

My freind a work saw a couple of these fake snuff films at tat palor and said the looked real at first also. We live in digital age where they do this stuff all the time in movies, what would you expect?



http://www.informationclearinghouse.info /
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 10:44 PM
Response to Original message
127. I was about to start my own thread on this subject. I am thinking
that this was a timely *distraction* from the torture of POW's being held under American command?

:tinfoilhat:

Can we please not let all these people die in vain and get rid of George Bush in 2004!
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gate of the sun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #127
134. timely indeed.
we all need to be aware of how this all of it is spinning us and to what end? That is the question we need to be asking ourselves. Come on a few months ago the news wouldn't show shit that would implicate the anointed one.Now we've had torture pictures that have moved us from the 9-11 commission to the torture pictures and now to the beheading of an American. We must ask ourselves what next?To what end? The media is a tool of the corporations. To what end is the spins this week?

We are being so played......the torture pictures aren't new and who gave those pictures to the media? and let's not forget that it was supposed Al-Queida who committed this atrocity in "Iraq". hhmmmmmmmmm?

SEE... Iraq was complicit with Al-Queida all along and those Arabs are animals.

I'm not sure of what is going on and what it's purpose is but we are being played.
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 06:20 AM
Response to Original message
138. back to page one n/t
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CWebster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 07:21 AM
Response to Reply #138
139. So, this is the target of the outrage
while they bury the evidence of US commonplace atrocities?


I just can't get by wandering about that orange jumpsuit Berg was wearing. Looks like US prison issue to me---at least when clothes are provided.

How convenient it all is.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
143. "inconsistencies and "weirdness" in the murder video"
Reference post:

HamdenRice (51 posts) Wed May-12-04 06:08 AM
Original message
A rational discussion thread re Berg murder video


Like everyone else on these boards, I was horrified by the Nick Berg murder. Like some, I am deeply disturbed by obvious inconsistencies and "weirdness" in the murder video, which I viewed several times.

To those who are upset because some of us question the authenticity of the video, please understand that it is not because I think that American is always wrong or that the horrific murder is somehow excusable; it is that the video is so utterly bizarre and inconsistent that it raises serious questions about how Berg was killed and by whom.

If you love your country and you want justice for Nick Berg, please try to overcome your disgust at our questioning the video and try to understand our concerns.

Also, as horrific as it is, I urge everyone to view the video. If the video is not authentic, then its producers want you to only know of it second hand.

I hope to start in this thread a rational analysis of the Nick Berg murder video. Please do not post here about how horrible it is that anyone question the murder video; please do not post flames about how anyone who cannot see the inconsistencies is stupid or naive.

I tried to summarize all that is wrong with the video and ended up writing about 5 pages, so I hope in this thread we can rationally raise all the inconsistencies a few points at a time.

Before I saw the video I thought that anyone who questioned what happened was a crazy conspiracy theorist. Once you view the video, you have to conclude that the images makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Here are some big questions:

1. As stickdog and others have pointed out, the single most damning piece of evidence is the date stamp on the video. At the moment Berg is seized to be murdered, the date stamp switches from 2:44 to 13:45; there is also a gap of about a minute; and a jump back to 2:44. This is incontrovertible evidence that either 2 cameras were used, or that the actual beheading took place eleven hours after the killer took out his knife to begin the beheading.

2. The audio is about 5 seconds ahead of the visuals. Berg never opens his mouth although in the audio he can be heard screaming. This suggests that the entire video is dubbed. Or this may be an artifact of the poor quality of the internet feed.

3. I am probably the only person on these boards who has beheaded a living animal -- several sheep. When I lived in Africa, it was a sign of great friendship, hospitality and respect for a family or friends to give me a sheep to slaughter for a big barbeque, the idea being that I was spilling the blood for my ancestors. The video raises two issues for me. One is that all over the world there are basically only a few ways that a third world person would behead an animal, and presumably such a person would transfer this skill to the beheading of a person, and this is not the way Berg was killed.

Second, a beheaded sheep does not react the way Berg's body did.

First, the two main ways to kill an animal are to slit its throat with the sharp edge of the knife and then plunge the tip into the spinal cord. Only later do you then actually behead the animal. A second way is to plunge the tip of the knife into the carotoid artery and let it bleed, and again behead it later.

Beheading executions in the middle east (ie Saudi Arabia) are done using very large swords that decapitates the victim all at once, but the killers obviously did not have access to such a sword.

The sawing motion seen on the video is very odd in a culture in which people regularly kill animals for food, even in the urban areas.

Also, blood spurts out of an animal rythmically with each beat of the heart. There is suspiciously little blood spilled in this video although the quality is very poor.

More to come.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #143
148. Berg had been advised to leave the country but declined
Edited on Wed May-12-04 08:55 AM by Tinoire
~snip~
Today, a US official told the Associated Press that Berg had been in Iraq "of his own accord", and had been advised to leave the country but declined to do so. The official refused to elaborate, but said more information would be released later today.

<snip>

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1215103,00....

This stinks too. If they wanted him to leave why didn't they help him?
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nomaco-10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #148
153. Exactly what I said yesterday.....
especially if he was detained and interrogated for thirteen days without council, you'd think he couldn't get out of that hell hole fast enough, and you'd think his country would make sure he received safe passage home.

Think about it, picked up by Iraqi police officers working for the coalition at a check point (why?) then held by the Americans (why?), then falling into the hands of Al Qaeda. It's too ridiculous to believe.

There's alot more to this story, but I think I've got the picture now. The video was the clincher.
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kiahzero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
144. You need to read the stories you cite
Edited on Wed May-12-04 08:44 AM by kiahzero
Nick Berg was "travelling" on his own, not working.

Wrong.
http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/news/politic...
Nick Berg was on his way out of Iraq. He had been released from the prison where he had been held for 13 days by Iraqi police for reasons he said he did not know. He had made his way from Mosul to his Baghdad hotel. He was finished with being an independent civilian contractor and was coming home to West Chester.
...
Nick Berg, 26, owns a business called Prometheus Methods Tower Service Inc. He climbs communications towers to inspect the antennas, the electrical connections and the structure. He first went to Iraq on Dec. 21.

---

The "agents questioned them about various details that only they and their son would know about". Why? So these beheaded men that we can't identify could lure him? Film it? Provoke more outrage so the RW can excuse & snuff out the torture taking place at Abu-Ghaibr?

Or, given the context, so they could confirm Berg's story?

---

Nick Berg, in order to get back home to the states, had to get to Jordan, Turkey or Kuwait to catch a flight? No airport in Iraq?

Well, Baghdad International has become a military base. I honestly don't know whether there's another airport in Iraq that's operating right now, but it seems unlikely that commercial airlines would be flying into/out of the country.


---
On edit:

http://kyw.com/Local%20News/local_story_128173423.html
26-year-old Nick Berg didn't sign a privacy waiver when he went over there.

And even though the State Department is using its one person in Iraq to help track him down, they can't tell anyone, including Berg's parents what's going on.


In this context, it seems the privacy waiver in question is why the State Department can't tell anyone what's going on.
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CWebster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #144
146. But don't you think the US military would want to assist
a US citizen leave a region in a war zone with escalating violence and increased hostility towards Americans?

Something about this stinks to high heaven.
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kiahzero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #146
151. Offhand, yes, I would think so.
However, my intuition about what the military does and does not to has been demonstrated as wrong in the past. Hence, I don't assume things like that.
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CWebster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #151
154. So, you don't think the US was willing to assist
this young American leave? But instead they detained him on prison until his parents set up a ruckus, suing Rumsfeld?

Something is weird about this.
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kiahzero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #154
156. In responding to your question, I remembered this:
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2004_05_...
(As bad as all this was, the one thing you really wanted to avoid was falling into the hands of the Iraqi police where the sort of treatment described above was seemingly more intense and boundless and mixed with corruption. So, for instance, you might undergo mock execution and threats to have your wife and daughters raped. And then if you didn't pay the bribe, they'd turn you over to the Americans with claims that you were some sort of hardened terrorist who surely had prized information, etc., perhaps bin Laden's valet or videographer or something.)

Which does raise some questions. We know that he was detained initially by Iraqi police before being turned over to the military.

So we've got:

Mar 24: He's apprehended by Iraqi police, whom we know to be abusive.
Mar 31: FBI agents show up at his parent's house, asking questions - at this point, he's obviously in US custody.
Apr 5: Parents sue the government.
Apr 6: Almost certainly at least in part responding to the suit, Berg is released.

Now, what I'm unclear on is exactly when this beheading supposedly took place? Was it almost immediately after Apr 6, or did it just happen recently?


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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #146
173. Anyone who cannot smell it
Edited on Wed May-12-04 04:58 PM by Karenina
has a faulty olfactory nerve. Eeeewwwww! Peeeeyuuuuuu!!
Oh SHIT! NOW HERE COME THE LOCUSTS!!!!
Pass the popcorn. That better be Bio-butter darauf!
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #144
157. Khiazhero. Of course I read them. Them and more
Edited on Wed May-12-04 09:39 AM by Tinoire
Unfortunately we are limited to snippets here. Go read the interviews with his parents, the snipped parts & the earlier artciles about him. He was no longer working. He had been let go and advised to leave Iraq. He was trying to get out of there with no help from the same people who first "advised" him to leave and interrogated both him and his family demanding to know what he was doing in Iraq.

You also misunderstand about a privacy waiver. A privacy waiver is not to protect the individual, it's to protect the government/employer. One good example is Wen Ho Lee who was tripped up by the one he signed because it allowed them to legally search his computer and hard drive to suit their ends. I've signed many a privacy waiver in my time- they're not for the individual- they're exactly what they say they are- a legal document where you "waive" your rights and they impose their own conditions.


Gotta go but let me quickly add that they didn't need "various details that only they and their son would know about" to confirm his story. That doesn't stand up. I don't need to know that when you were 6 years old, you broke your knee falling out of an apple tree to confirm what you're doing in a war zone 30 years later. They knew that had Nick Berg so that that doesn't explain it... People don't ask others for intimate details about you unless they need them to manipulate you; like I said- my guess here is to "lure" you out of hiding because it seems to me he would have been trying to avoid his "interrogators".

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kiahzero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #157
158. You aren't putting the pieces together
If you're trying to confirm that someone is who he says he is, what's a good way to do that? Ask him questions that only he and immediate family would know, that an imposter wouldn't think to ask about. Like, say, that you were 6 when you fell our of an apple tree and broke your knee. I can't find the link now, but one of the stories mentioned that the authorities thought that someone had stolen Berg's identity.

As for the privacy waiver in question - would it not be possible that the State Department's inability to comment on the case stems from his not signing it?

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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #158
161. There are many things still not adding up
Like this recent story that he was advised to leave...

I based my work only on what was available before all I figured the government spin would start. I don't believe a word coming from this administration right now- not one. They could tell me the sky is blue and I'd have to look at it for hours to determine if I believed them.

Many things are not adding up. Project Prometheus? A nice Jewish boy from a family that supports justice for the Palestinians making all these trips to Iraq taking a prayer shawl with him? Being detained by the US which is now claiming they never detained him? A video using the latest Microsoft technology? And a strange video at that.

So many things.


As for the privacy waiver... No, you not signing one would not be a reason for them to not discuss things. They're never under an obligation not to discuss things.

Will be looking forward to more details but at this point there's so much spin coming forth from the Gov't that it's going to be hard to know what to believe...

Looking forward to seeing what else you notice/find.
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goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
159. kick
once again

Sat, May. 08, 2004
West Chester contractor missing in Iraq

Associated Press

<snip>

When FBI agents arrived at the Berg's West Chester home on March 31, they were relieved to know their son was alive, but in jail. The agents questioned them about various details that only they and their son would know about.

Jerri Williams, spokeswoman for the Philadelphia FBI office, said the agency was "asked to interview the parents regarding Mr. Berg's purpose in Iraq."

http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/news/politic...
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
162. U.S. Claims It Never Detained Beheading Victim
U.S. Claims It Never Detained Beheading Victim
Family Angry With U.S. Government Over Man's Decapitation

POSTED: 7:39 a.m. EDT May 12, 2004
UPDATED: 11:41 a.m. EDT May 12, 2004

WEST CHESTER, Pa. -- The U.S.-led coalition is denying some claims by the family of Nick Berg, the American civilian from Philadelphia who was shown on videotape being beheaded by militants in Iraq.

Coalition spokesman Dan Senor said Berg was never in U.S. custody. But he said Berg had been detained for a time by Iraqi police in the northern city of Mosul. Senor said the FBI met with Berg several times to find out what he was doing in Iraq.

Senor said as far as he knows, Berg was never "under the jurisdiction or detention of coalition forces." Asked for details about Berg's last weeks in Iraq, Senor said officials are trying to "piece all this together."

<snip>

Michael Berg has said that at some point during his son's 13-day detention, U.S. officials had taken custody of him. He said his son wasn't allowed to make phone calls or contact a lawyer.


Michael Berg his son might still be alive if he hadn't been detained by U.S. officials in Iraq without being charged and without access to a lawyer.

<snip>

The video also contained threats against President George W. Bush and Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf.

<snip>

http://www.nbc4columbus.com/news/3295422/detail.html
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kiahzero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #162
164. The original story did say that he was detained by Iraqi police
Did any of them actually say that he was handed over to the US, or was that an assumption we all made based on the involvement of the FBI?
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #164
171. First Post of this thread (no misinterpretation)
Edited on Wed May-12-04 03:41 PM by Tinoire
It's there in black and white to read and from an article written before the US flooded the net with their propaganda. The original story was clear- illegally held in a US jail.


When FBI agents arrived at the Berg's West Chester home on March 31, they were relieved to know their son was alive, but in jail. The agents questioned them about various details that only they and their son would know about.

Jerri Williams, spokeswoman for the Philadelphia FBI office, said the agency was "asked to interview the parents regarding Mr. Berg's purpose in Iraq."

On April 5, the Bergs filed suit in federal court in Philadelphia, contending that their son was being held illegally by the U.S. military in Iraq.

---------

He was being held so illegally that they filed a suit, not against the Iraqis or Al-Qaeda but against Donald Rumsfeld.

===================

Here is what is left of the Writ of Habeas Corpus that has since been scrubbed: (thanks Jacobin)


United States District Court
Eastern District of Pennsylvania (Philadelphia)
CIVIL DOCKET FOR CASE #: 2:04-cv-01497-MAM

BERG et al v. RUMSFELD
Assigned to: HONORABLE MARY A. MCLAUGHLIN
Referred to:
Demand: $
Lead Docket: None
Related Cases: None
Case in other court: None
Cause: 28:2241 Petition for Writ of Habeas Corpus (federal)
Date Filed: 04/05/04
Jury Demand: None
Nature of Suit: 530 Habeas Corpus (General)
Jurisdiction: Federal Question

Petitioner
-----------------------
NICHOLAS EVAN BERG, BY AND THROUGH represented by ALFRED A. GOLLATZ
GOLLATZ, GRIFFIN & EWING
213 WEST MINER STREET
P.O. BOX 796
WEST CHESTER, PA 19381-0796
610-692-9116
Fax : 610-692-9177
Email: agollatz@ggelaw.com
LEAD ATTORNEY
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

MICHAEL S. BERG represented by ALFRED A. GOLLATZ
(See above for address)
LEAD ATTORNEY
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

SUZANNE CAROL BERG, AS NEXT FRIENDS OF NICHOLAS EVAN BERG represented by ALFRED A. GOLLATZ
(See above for address)
LEAD ATTORNEY
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

V.


Respondent
-----------------------
DONALD H. RUMSFELD, HONORABLE, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE


Filing Date # Docket Text
04/05/2004 1 PETITION for Writ of Habeas Corpus ( Filing fee $ 5 receipt number 903782.), filed by MICHAEL S. BERG, NICHOLAS EVAN BERG, SUZANNE CAROL BERG.(ss, ) (Entered: 04/05/2004)
04/09/2004 2 NOTICE TO MARK MATTER DISCONTINUED AS MOOT by MICHAEL S. BERG, NICHOLAS EVAN BERG, SUZANNE CAROL BERG As To HONORABLE DONALD RUMSFELD, CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE. (jl, ) (Entered: 04/09/2004)


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

======


http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/Tower-pro/message...



Dear Friends and Customers of Nick Berg and Prometheus Towers,

I am enclosing the following news release which my wife and I are about to release to the media for you. If anyone out there in the broadcast industry can do anything to help us spread the word about our son's disappearance especially to the Mid East, we would be very appreciative:

On March 14 our son, Nick Berg, left for Iraq to inspect some radio towers that had been damaged during last year's war. His goal was to secure some contract work for his business, Prometheus Methods Tower Service. He planned to return on March 30 through Amman, Jordan.

On March 24, Nick was picked up by the Iraqi police in Mosul and held for questioning for no apparent reason. He was subsequently detained by the U.S. military and interrogated by the FBI until his release on April 6. No reason was ever given for holding him for these 13 days. Immediately upon his release he emailed the family and proceeded south to Baghdad where he was staying at the Al Fanar Hotel.

On April 9 he called us and said that he was seeking a safe route out of the country either through Jordan, or possibly Turkey. Most of the major routes were closed due to military action around Fallujah. Since that time we have had no contact with our son. No one we know in Iraq has seen or spoken to him, and we know that he has not accessed his email. We are extremely worried about his safety. We are asking anyone who has seen Nick or knows anything about his whereabouts to come forward and give us this information so that he can be safely brought home.

We extend our sympathies to all of the many families who are in the same situation.

Suzanne and Michael Berg
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goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #171
172. and he was released the day after the suit was filed n/t
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scottxyz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #164
193. What is the "Iraqi police"?
I thought the US was running the country till June 30.

I bet if the "Iraqi police" had a contractor from Blackstone rather than from Prometheus, he'd be rescued pretty quickly.

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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #162
165. Hmmmm
So now we never detained him, but there was a suit for them to release him....

This does not make ANY sense... and this is loosing increasing credibilty.

Oh and as to the tape.. I saw it, and I did notice two things that were striking to me.

1.- The voice of the speaker was monotone, very monotone... no inflection. I do not speak arabic so I would not know.

2.- The time stamp also was striking

No I do not intend to watch it again... once was enough and yes the sound was ahead of the images


Oh and one more thing, the two to the right of the victim, them blue tenis shoes were very clean and very new.
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
170. Just last month, al Zarqawi grew another leg.
Edited on Wed May-12-04 02:30 PM by Minstrel Boy
Until last month, Washington's story on the tape's supposed killer, Abu Musad al Zarqawi, was that he had one leg, and had been treated for the amputation in Saddam's Baghdad. Then, just weeks ago, the story changed. He now had two legs.

From Molly Ivins, April 13:

Note the interesting little factoids that are being dribbled out as everyone's attention is riveted on the larger slippage in Iraq. Apparently in the spirit of the British civil servant who put out a memo on Sept. 11 advising all departments that today would be a good day to unload any bad news lying around, we now learn that Abu Musad al Zarqawi has two legs.

This will not strike you as a stop-the-presses moment unless you remember that al Zarqawi was one of Osama bin Laden's Number Two men (we seem to have captured several "Number Two" men already, with more still out there.) Pre-war, the administration claimed the reason it was so certain Saddam Hussein had ties to Al Qaeda was that Zarqawi had gone to Baghdad to get his leg amputated. But now, oops, he has two.
http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?itemid=1675...

The timing was perhaps even more suspicious than Ivins imagined.
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camero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
174. I have some questions. Saw the picture in the paper
Edited on Wed May-12-04 05:04 PM by camero
1. Why would the killers wear masks? It's not my understanding that Iraqi males are known to wear masks.

2. After 10 years of sanctions and rationed food, I don't think there would be very many Iraqis over 250lbs. How?

3. Why would they pose for pictures and send them to the media right as the news of the Torture at Abu Ghairb is being played out before congress? Just as officials are downplaying the actions of the MPs.

There's just too many unanswered questions for me. Call me a conspiracy theorist. Fine. Most conspiracies start out with the planning of the people at the top and the rest out of the loop but "doing their job". Just as the engineer of the Nazi trains had no idea what was going to happen to the Jews that were boarded on the trains, but helped the conspiracy along unknowingly.

Something's not right. We're being set up for something.

Hi Tinoire. Great work. :hi:
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goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
175. Berg worked at Abu Ghraib, had Iraqi relatives . . .
http://www.boston.com/dailynews/133/world/Questions_sur...

* * *

Berg was inspecting communications facilities, some of which were destroyed in the war or by looters.

During his time in Iraq, he struggled with the Arabic language and worked at night on a tower in Abu Ghraib, a site of repeated attacks on U.S. convoys and the location of the notorious prison where U.S. soldiers abused Iraqi inmates.

His father, Michael Berg, told the AP that Michael's sister, now dead, married an Iraqi man named Mudafer, who became close to Nicholas. In one of the e-mails, Nicholas Berg describes going to the northern city of Mosul, where he introduced himself to Mudafer's brother, identified as Moffak Mustaffa.

''We got along splendidly,'' Berg wrote. ''We spent a few hours and I helped him establish an e-mail account.''

* * *
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
176. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #176
178. Got a link? I do.....


See ya.
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GWBrips Donating Member (7 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #178
179. Didn't Know that having a different opinion was considered disruptive
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #179
180. I didn't say that it did.
Just curious, why is your screen name GWBrips?

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crossroads Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #179
187. BYE
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nonconformist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
177. Kick
:kick:
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
182. Berg worked at night on a ABU GHRAIB tower
Berg was inspecting communications facilities, some of which were destroyed in the war or by looters.

During his time in Iraq, he struggled with the Arabic language and worked at night on a tower in Abu Ghraib, a site of repeated attacks on U.S. convoys and the location of the notorious prison where U.S. soldiers abused Iraqi inmates.

His father, Michael Berg, told the AP that Michael's sister, now dead, married an Iraqi man named Mudafer, who became close to Nicholas. In one of the e-mails, Nicholas Berg describes going to the northern city of Mosul, where he introduced himself to Mudafer's brother, identified as Moffak Mustaffa.

''We got along splendidly,'' Berg wrote. ''We spent a few hours and I helped him establish an e-mail account.''

<snip>

<snip>
http://www.boston.com/dailynews/133/world/Questions_sur...
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #182
183. ABU GHRAIB - He took PHOTOS
Edited on Wed May-12-04 06:36 PM by Tinoire
I did not want to post this just yet, have been hanging on to it all afternoon, but now that the part about Abu-Ghaibr is out, here goes:

From: "oldtowerguy" <oldtowerguy@y...>
Date: Wed May 12, 2004 12:49 pm
Subject: About Nick Berg


John and group. I copied this message from another board. John, I
believe you know which one. I thought this was a great insight to the
young man and his dedication. It was written by Mark Humphry.

Gary

BEGIN:
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 12:35:16 -0400
From: "Mark Humphrey" <mark@y...>
Subject: Remembering Nick (was Why was Nick in Iraq?)

The tragic news about Nick Berg's murder hit very close to home, as I
had known him for about two years and we hired him for several
recent projects -- in fact, he installed an auxiliary antenna for WPLY in
February, just before heading back to Iraq. Perhaps I can shed some
light on this situation.

<snip>

Why did he go to Iraq?

He was aware that some towers were damaged last year during bombing
missions, and many more had been looted... copper lines removed,
diagonal members taken out, etc. Few obstruction lighting systems
were functional -- he mentioned an 800 foot tower two miles from an
airport (used by our military) that was totally dark. So he first went over
in December to see if he could help to assist in the reconstruction,
restore Iraq's broadcast services, and repair the serious structural
damage that endangered the lives of their citizens.

I received the following email message from Nick in early January:

    >About Iraq-

    >I am taking photos - where allowed. It's actually pretty sad - I just
    >got off one of two 320 meter monster towers in Abu Gharib (also home
    >to the main political prison) which use to support most of Baghdad
    >area's VHF and UHF.
    >Both have been badly looted, including 4000 feet or more of flexible
    >6-1/8" heliax, two full 12X4 panel TV antennas, and even some
    >structural members. I was also in the North as I mentioned, but here there
    >wasn't as much damage. I'll definitely share some of these pix with
    >you and others next time I'm in the area - I'd love to put together a
    >little presentation for SBE or PAB in about six monthes after I've
    >been on every site and fixed some of them.


He returned to Philadelphia in late January to catch up on some
domestic business -- then in early February, tackled an antenna
replacement job at our aux site, which he had quoted last summer.

<snip>

If you've been following all sides of this story, you may have read
that his parents did not receive much cooperation from OUR Federal
Government when trying to learn his whereabouts, which is very
disturbing.
He had reportedly booked a March 30 flight back to New
York, but missed it because he had been detained by our military.
Today's "spin" on the story is that they told him to get out, but I'm
not buying that.


Let's keep his family in our thoughts and prayers. Our industry (and
humanity) has lost a very fine person.

Mark

http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/Tower-pro/message...
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goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #183
184. Berg took photos in Abu Gharib where allowed
One wonders about the subject of his photos -- antennas or other stuff?
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #184
186. Prison courtyards and the such maybe? What do U now think the FBI wanted
Edited on Wed May-12-04 07:15 PM by Tinoire
Would the FBI care? Some guy taking photos from the towers of the prison during the biggest international scandal to rock this administration...

Try taking photos near any military installation and see what happens to your ass.

Try being known to have taken some back in January when the worst torture was happening at a notorious prison where people were being tormented outdoors in the courtyard.

You would not have to wonder long why they would want to interrogate you for 2 weeks.

And Nicky-boy hadn't even signed a privacy waiver so he had no legal obligation to not share anything he had with the entire world if he wanted to.

I'm not saying he even had photos documenting those things but the FBI HAD to find out to save Bush's glorious ass.

What makes it worse is that the Freepers had posted his family's name to be turned in to the FBI as Palestinian-terrorist-lovers simply because his father had signed one of ANSWER's petitions demanding justice for the Palestinians.


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scottxyz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #186
192. So I guess there's two kinds of private contractors in Iraq
The kind like Nick Berg, who want to make some money putting up telecommunications systems (and hey, it might help the news coverage of what's going on over there).

And the kind that work for Blackstone and Vance International (also called "mercenaries").

The mercenary-type "private contractors" get to rape and torture and murder and they're supposedly not even under any court's jurisdiction (neither US civil court nor court martial).

The telecommunications guys like Berg get handed over to the locals so they can get their heads cut off.

Interesting little system Rumsfeld and Carbone and Miller have going over there.

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goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #186
196. you really sum it up well here
eom
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crossroads Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #183
185. Took photo? OMG!
This story gets stranger by the day! It is like a puzzle where you are putting pieces together and drawing your own conclusions, and I don't really like the conclusions I am drawing!
Sad! Good research Tinoire. Thanks, this seems major! :wow:
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #183
188. This is stinking so much worse than yesterday,
and yesterday it stank bad enough.

Thanks again, Tinoire, for all you've done on this story. And thank God, at times like this, for DU.
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goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
189. kick n/t
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DemonFighterLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
190. After tracking this topic last night and this morning
It was quite alarming that now the administration is denying that he was in US custody. :wtf:
These criminal bastards can not put out a truthful story. There has got to be some big reasons for distancing themselves from this young American. I almost don't want to know, but now more than ever, it is time for rummy, dubby and diky to go.
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Kool Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #190
195. I have been reading all this with much alarm,
this story is too strange. Here's another bit that I haven't seen posted here yet, but there was a blurb on MSNBC (news at the top of the hour thingie) that said that the State Department offered to put Nick on a plane home, but he refused, saying he would find his own way home. And I don't understand why he was wearing an orange prison jump suit.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #195
200. If you can find that link, please post it (and the excerpt) here!
I saw that and didn't save it but it struck me later... He was distrustful enough of them that he turned them down and preferred to make it out of there on his own, through other countries.

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RBHam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
194. kick
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Terran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
197. Hey Tinoire...
Re: our conversation earlier today, and my skepticism. After reading on another thread about the numerous anomolies in the video, especially the lack of blodd spurting everywhere, I am convinced that this things is a fake in some way; what way remains to be seen. But these people are not who they say they are. And Berg was probably killed 11 hours before his head was cut off. If it even is him in the video.

Dirk
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #197
203. Hi Dirk!
I tend to agree with you about the video. There are too many problems with it. Have you watched it? I finally watched it and one thing that really shocked me is that that so-called terrorists were slouching, one was downright FAT, some were very tall by Islamic standard (according to an AF analyst who looked at them). You know, it wasn't so much the slouching that bothered me (and we slouch more than most people) but the fidgetting during the entire thing. It was so... bored American. There was no PASSION in the hooded terrorists at all. Then the lack of blood. I've seen hogs get slaughtered and the blood spurted out as much as Nicole Simpson's did... In this video it didn't, as if the heart had long ago stopped beating.

The way, as you say, remains to be seen.

I just offered one theory based on the information I was able to find before the propaganda flooded the net, before they could get their story totally straight.

I'm uncertain too.
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Fleshdancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
201. can we begin a thread #2 on this topic? we're past the 200 post mark n/t
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #201
204. Sure, but will you give me a little time to work-up a good start-up/
Edited on Wed May-12-04 11:41 PM by Tinoire
summary post to incorporate the newer stuff.

Good idea. :)
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preciousdove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
202. Another curious observation -- Russian?
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-12-04 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #202
207. I heard that tonight. Interesting. I'm going to ask a Russian friend to
Edited on Wed May-12-04 11:52 PM by Tinoire
re-listen but this time with no video and the volume turned up.

Thanks!

From that thread: starroute (1000+ posts) Wed May-12-04 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #21

22. Here's a quote posted on another thread


The terrorists in Berg's beheading video are communicating to each other in Russian ! One of them tells to the executioner who was cutting Berg's head: "Davay pozhivee !" meaning "Do it quicker !", or "Hurry up !" in pure unaccented Russian. Initially, I thought I was the only one who noticed it, but other Russian speakers confirmed it as well independently from me. So, who actually killed Berg ? BTW, "Allah o Akbar" they pronounce not with Arabic, but with a Russian-like accent. Also, their demeanor was not Arabic at all, but resembles that of people from the North Caucasus. Those were not Arabs ! "

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 12:28 AM
Response to Original message
212. Another fact: FBI saw Nick Berg three times while he was detained
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - The FBI saw Nick Berg, the American civilian beheaded in Iraq, three times while he was being detained by Iraqi police, the U.S.-led occupation authority said Wednesday.

<snip>

"My understanding is that they suspected that he was engaged in suspicious activity," Senor told a news conference.

<snip>

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&s...
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kittykitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 12:37 AM
Response to Original message
213. Orange prison suits have short sleeves - Baghdad airport has no flights
I think (not positive) that there are no commercial flights from Baghdad International Airport. I have heard journalists and congressmen speak of being flown to Kuwait


Posted 4/13/2004 12:42 PM Updated 4/14/2004 10:58 AM
Baghdad, Basra airports to reopen in July, Iraqi official says
KUWAIT (AFP) Iraq is planning to open the Baghdad and Basra airports to regular commercial flights at the beginning of July, Iraq's civil aviation director, Fakher Faraj, was quoted as saying here Tuesday. . . .

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/2004-04-13-iraq-air...

ALSO--The orange suit being worn by Berg. Orange prison jumpsuits have short sleeves. The one he is wearing has long sleeves and seems to be of a silkier material from the way it drapes over his limbs. Its more like a jogging suit.

Have you ever seen a prisoner in a long sleeved orange suit?
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Must_B_Free Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #213
216. They look like Arab formal wear to me
Edited on Thu May-13-04 01:03 AM by Must_B_Free
by the collar and sheen of the fabric. It looked like silk.

when we wear suit and tie, they wear what look like long tailed pajamas by our standards.

I couldn't see if there were tails however(or rather a long front and long back).
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kittykitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #216
217. Not sure about that, Must-beFree
Iraq was a secular country and most men wore western clothes. but here is a link to Arab clothing. Go to bed, it's late!

http://www.traderscity.com/abcg/culture9.htm
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stickdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 12:40 AM
Response to Original message
214. There Are Four Obvious Edits in the "Beheading Video"
The first is when the camera time goes from 2:44:12 to 13:45:47 (as the gross part begins).

At this point, the leader, wearing a very dark head covering, is the one doing the carving. The only guy wearing a white head covering is on the far left of the screen, holding the victim down.

Then there is a edit at 13:46:33 that returns at 13:47:46 (a gap of about 1:13). At this point, a guy wearing a white head covering (who was last seen holding down the victim on the left of the screen for the leader/speaker who started out wearing a very dark head covering) suddenly "trades places" with the ostensible leader, and holds the victim's head up to the camera for all of us to enjoy. The camera timestamp then jumps from 13:47:52 back to 2:46:17 (and then back again quickly) while the guy wearing the white head covering continues to hold up the head like a trophy. Note that at no time after the head is held up do we see any terra'ists other than one wearing a white head covering.

So what happened? Why did our big, bad terra'ist leader require an obvious "stand in" to complete the filming?

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Greylady Donating Member (156 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #214
228. I can't see the timestamps on the one I watched
but it looks as though the person wearing the dark head covering gets up and leaves tossing the knife behind. Then the one wearing the white headcover takes over.
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stickdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 02:00 AM
Response to Original message
219. More loose info
Edited on Thu May-13-04 02:04 AM by stickdog
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notadmblnd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 07:03 AM
Response to Original message
220. This needs to be looked at too
they're talking about who owns the website that posted the video beheading and another guy that works for homelans security.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #220
222. Is it worth noting this is the first such video to receive a Net release?
Edited on Thu May-13-04 11:16 AM by Minstrel Boy
Other video communiques were hand-delivered, usually to Al Jazeera (an exception was the "fat Osama" tape, which US authorities debuted). In this instance, Al Jazeera was bypassed.
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goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #222
223. most certainly n/t
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
221. Kick n/t
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
225. Diplomat's E-Mails Show Berg in US Custody
Diplomat's E-Mails Show Berg in Custody

By JASON STRAZIUSO
Associated Press Writer


A U.S. diplomatic official in Iraq told the family of slain American Nicholas Berg that he was being detained by the U.S. military when they lost contact with him for several days in early April, according to e-mails provided by the family Thursday.

<snip>

To back its claims that Berg was in U.S. custody, the family showed The Associated Press an April 1 e-mail from Beth A. Payne, the U.S. consular officer in Iraq.

"I have confirmed that your son, Nick, is being detained by the U.S. military in Mosul. He is safe. He was picked up approximately one week ago. We will try to obtain additional information regarding his detention and a contact person you can communicate with directly," the e-mail said.

In two e-mails later that day, Payne wrote that she was still trying to find a local contact for the family.

<snip>

http://www.timesdaily.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20...
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #225
226. They usually tip their hat by tripping themselves up in their lies.
Edited on Thu May-13-04 02:11 PM by Minstrel Boy
Unfortunately, they still almost always get away with it. Because there are precious few in the bought-and-sold-and-gutless American media who have the courage and wisdom to address the implications of the deceptions.

The implications of the Berg story are becoming increasingly ugly, and it becomes harder to deride as "tinfoil."

But there's something apparently so sloppy about all this that makes me think that someone wants us to know they did it. They want to prove to us, without acknowledging their guilt, just how ruthless and don't fuck with us they are.

What am I talking about? The orange prison jumpsuit.

That says Yes, we killed him, and we sure as hell can kill you too. Now sit down, shut up and don't get in our way.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
227. About the release of that video
Edited on Thu May-13-04 03:21 PM by Tinoire
<snip>

However, the circumstances of the video release are also strange. A Reuters journalist in Dubai first named the Muntada al-Ansar al-Islami website as the source for the video at www.al-ansar.biz .

Although the site has now been shut down, Aljazeera.net had looked at the site within ninety minutes of the story breaking and could find no such video footage.

But Fox News, CNN and the BBC were all able to download the footage from the Arabic-only website and report the story within the hour.

<snip>

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/4FFA61A3-9C33-45...



And damn, now, because of a comment some people made, I'm going to watch that video again, as gruesome as it was, and ask myself if this was the face I saw. I seem to recall a much smaller-framed man. I an't believe this nightmare

Rachel Corrie... Nick Berg... How many more?
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goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
229. FBI told police to hold Berg
FBI told police to hold Berg

http://www.news24.com/News24/World/Iraq/0,,2-10-1460_15...

Mosul, Iraq - Nick Berg, the US hostage shown being beheaded by Islamic radicals, was held for two weeks in Iraq at the FBI's request for travelling without documents while his identity was checked, a US general said on Thursday.

"Berg was in Mosul. He was travelling alone. The Iraqi police found him without any documentation. Iraqi police was suspicious and took him into custody" Brigadier General Carter Ham, who heads the Olympia Task Force, said in this northern Iraqi city.

"FBI asked (police) to keep him until they knew who he was" Ham told journalists.

http://www.news24.com/News24/World/Iraq/0,,2-10-1460_15...
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #229
231. Lol, "Police Chief Denies Arresting Beheaded American (Mosul)"
Edited on Thu May-13-04 05:01 PM by Tinoire
Can't snip from the article because for the first time I've ever seen

Scotsman.com is currently offline

Scotsman.com is undergoing essential maintenance

To continue to meet our own exacting standards, Scotsman.com has temporarily been taken offline for essential maintenance.

We do apologise for any inconvenience caused and assure you that this downtime will be kept to the absolute minimum.


http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2920856

but is being discussed here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

These people have absolutely LOST it~

Bunch of rats running around scared & making no sense anymore.
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goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #231
232. yes they can't get their story straight
E-mails to Bergs are now in press.

See
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/apus_story.asp?c...

SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER

Thursday, May 13, 2004 Last updated 3:19 p.m. PT

E-mails from U.S. consulate to Bergs

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Text of e-mails from Beth A. Payne, a U.S. consular officer in Baghdad, to members of the family of Nicholas Berg. Copies of the e-mails were provided to The Associated Press by the Berg family.

March 31, 2004, 3:16 p.m.

I've been trying to return your wife's call, but the line is busy. I attempted to locate your son without success. If I can locate him, I will ask him to call so you know his situation.

April 1, 1:26 a.m. (To Michael Berg, Berg's father)

I have confirmed that your son, Nick, is being detained by the U.S. military in Mosul. He is safe. He was picked up approximately one week ago. We will try to obtain additional information regarding his detention and a contact person you can communicate with directly.

April 1, 5:23 a.m. (To Suzanne Berg, Berg's mother)

I have been able to confirm that your son is being detained by the U.S. military. I am attempting to identify a person with the U.S. military or FBI here in Iraq who you can contact directly with your questions.

April 2, 1:25 p.m.

I have been trying to identify a local contact here, but given the security situation in Iraq it is not easy. I will continue to try.
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goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-13-04 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
230. another coincidence: Moussaoui

Berg & Moussaoui used the same email account at Univ of Oklahoma

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,119854,00.html

* * *

Meanwhile, sources close to the situation told Fox News that there was a "coincidental" link between Berg and accused Sept. 11 conspirator Zacarias Moussaoui.

FBI agents interviewed Berg a few years ago when they were investigating the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks on New York and Washington, the sources said. He was interviewed because, unbeknownst to him, Moussaoui had used his e-mail account when he was in Oklahoma.

Berg attended the University of Oklahoma and Moussaoui first settled in Norman, Okla., when he came to the U.S. The accused co-conspirator used at least one of the university's computers to communicate online, according to the sources.

The sources said that the FBI concluded that Berg had innocently given his e-mail account to someone and it had landed in the hands of other people, including Moussaoui.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,119854,00.html


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goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-04 07:17 AM
Response to Original message
233. kick n/t
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-04 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
234. State has no records of Berg's firm

State has no records of Berg's firm
R. JONATHAN TULEYA , Staff Writer 05/14/2004

Prometheus Methods Tower Services Inc., the business that cost Nick Berg his life in Iraq, has no records with the Pennsylvania Department of State.

The company that specialized in building communications towers never registered with the Pennsylvania Corporation Bureau, said Brian McDonald, spokesman for the state department.

McDonald conducted a search of the bureaus online list of registered businesses, but found no matches.

The same search done by a Daily Local News reporter produced the same results -- several businesses contained the word "Prometheus" in their names. Only one is located in West Chester, and it is not related to Bergs business.

Companies are not legally required to register with the state, but McDonald explained it is usually the first step an owner takes.

"Youd be very foolish not to register your business with the department," he said. "It is nearly impossible to exist without doing it."

(more)
http://www.dailylocal.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=11650247...


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-14-04 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #234
235. "It is nearly impossible to exist without doing it."
Sure sounds spooky.
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