MIlitary's Black Heart Exposed

[indigobusiness]

There are many good men in the military, but the military mind is infected with an darkness that breeds evils like sadism. How could it be otherwise when it is all about the perfecting of killing?

[the_real_38]

1. Agreed...

.... I don't 'support the troops'. The fact is , a lot of people who are attracted to the military and Law Enforcement are into dominating people through violence. And they tend to exert pressure on their peers.

[Redleg]

13. How big is your sample size?

How do you know "a lot" of military folks are into dominating people?

[Frederic Bastiat]

35. Let the lemmings pass...

No point arguing sometimes.

[Redleg]

36. ExCav, I was wondering when you would address this thread.

I gotta stand up for the military when I can.

[indigobusiness]

41. Lemmings are smarter

than military laprats.

http://sludgereport.blogspot.com/

[leftynyc]

39. And who is going to protect us from real criminals and

enemies? You?

[indigobusiness]

42. Who is protecting you

now?

[Ready4Change]

2. Query?

Do you feel it is impossible for someone to serve in the military for noble purpose and to maintain a non-corrupt heart?

[indigobusiness]

8. True warriors can be noble...read Sun Tzu

The true warrior abhors violence.

[burythehatchet]

27. The United States does not know what a true warrior is

[indigobusiness]

30. That quote isn't Joseph Campbell's

it is from Taoism.

[burythehatchet]

32. Thanks

I heard it from Mr. Campbell and he probably did attribute it properly. Although I've not yet read Taoist text, it certainly does fit it with that philosophy.

[indigobusiness]

33. You're quite welcome, but read the Tao Te Ching...

It is stunningly beautiful and can be read in one sitting.

edit--p.s. read the Sludge Report, too

http://sludgereport.blogspot.com/

not as beautiful, but relevant.

[burythehatchet]

43. I did, in fact, go to the sludge report upon reading your post

It's quite an accomplishment. If that's your work, my hat is off to you. Wonderfully done.

[indigobusiness]

46. thank you...

you are too kind.

[Warren Stuart]

3. Infected?

I wouldn't go that far, all organizations take their lead from the top person, and when the top person is someone who used to abuse small animals in a sadistic way when he was a child, then...

This is of course a flawed anology, however the Republicans have no problems justifying lawbreaking and cheating because "CLINTON DID IT".

The military mind is not some Borg construct, it is rather the lowest common demoninator of millions of servicepeople, past and present.

Survival is the main force driving the military mind, and if something threatens it, then the military mind will turn on it. We are seeing this in action. The photos would not have been released otherwise. IMO.

[peacetalksforall]

5. Yeah, according to one brother's favorite childhood story...

he would take a bb gun and make the brothers run down a hallway while he shot at them. You know who 'he' is. The one who became a cheerleader.

[NeonLX]

7. Don't forget the frogs...

shoving firecrackers up their asses, lighting the fuses and watching them explode into a shower of blood & guts. HAHAHA, that Bush boy...what a zany prankster!

[indigobusiness]

26. Used to mix gasoline and sand...sold it as "magic dirt"

...sprinkle a little on a horny toad, light and watch sizzle.

This was a common practice around Cowden Park. I did my share of regretful things, but this still makes me cringe.

[peacetalksforall]

4. We went from organized defense of a nation

to creating toys and new strategies that had to be tested in live situations - to partnering with corporations at the behest of bankers/lawyers/ceo's/stealth intelligence operatives who felt a need to strip earth resources for a few and dominate free speech, votes, dissent, separation of church and state.

The military has become a facilitator of all of this.

It must be a form of torture to be a pure soldier and watch what the politicians and thieves have done to us.

I lost faith with the Bay of Pigs. My study of the history of WWII is fuzzy. But today's problems accelerated quite obviously at the time of the Kennedy assassination and40 years is enough to observe.

[indigobusiness]

40. The rhetoric and rationale make my case for me.

Any unbiased analysis would easily see the point I tried to make.

Everyone defends their own, but I meant no offense. It is fact.

http://sludgereport.blogspot.com/

[Redleg]

6. Nonsense. What do you know of the "military mind?"

Is the average soldier any more brainwashed than the average Fox News viewer? I doubt it.

Does war put GIs into intense situations where the answers to problems are not all black-and-white? Yes. Did something go terribly wrong in Iraq? Yes- but that's not due to the "military mind" as much as is it is due to poor leadership at the top, including Rummy and Bush.

[indigobusiness]

10. Enough to know you have been indoctrinated...

Read Sun Tzu, THE ART OF WAR, if you don't believe me.

[Redleg]

12. Sure there is indoctrination but unless you have experienced

it you shouldn't assume you know about the "military mind"- if there is such a thing.

If military personnel are so prone to "sadism" then why do they not commit more sadistic crimes than the average population during peacetime?

Your original message was very broad and very simple. Don't you think human behavior and cognition are a bit more complex?

[indigobusiness]

15. You don't know what I've experienced...

I don't need to go to the sun to know it's hot.

And I never said anyone was "prone" to anything... I said it was endemic in the culture.

You should read to understand and not project your own bias.

[Redleg]

17. How are "proneness" and being "endemic in the culture" different?

I can grasp subtleties but I cannot see how those terms imply different things.

Are you not projecting your own perceptual biases in your comments? I daresay we all do to some extent.

I do apologize for questioning what you have or have not experienced. That was out of line because I made an assumption about you based on very little knowledge.

[indigobusiness]

18. Individualcan be "prone" to something... cultures can not

because cultures are not people.

Look up ""culture" to see the difference.

Expressing an opinion is not the same as projecting bias in a logical rebuttal. I welcome dissagreement but not dogma (look it up)....

[Redleg]

20. You just pointed out an inconsistency in your thinking...

If a culture is not people, then how can a culture have a mindset? In one instance you give the military culture a mindset, in the other instance you say it is not people.


You are correct in saying that people can be prone (I like to use the term disposition) and that cultures cannot. Strong cultures, however, can shape certain dispositions in the members.

[indigobusiness]

22. No inconsistency

A culture is not a "person"...it has no free will.

[indigobusiness]

19. Your apology is accepted and speaks well of you.

I don't claim to be right about anything. I'm just trying to further a sincere and meaningful dialog.

Cheers!

[Redleg]

21. Thank you.

I do think this mode of communication (the forum) presents a number of difficulties in getting our ideas across to others. I know that it is harder for me to convey my messages through this medium and I realize it is harder for me to accurately interpet other's messages.

I appreciate your intent to further the discourse.

Peace!

[mmonk]

9. My father trudged

in the mire of war time Europe fighting an army that believed like this one now, followed no rules, international law or any reasonable standard of humanity. If he were alive now, he would be WAY,WAY, disappointed.

[Malva Zebrina]

11. In a way I think that is correct

I believe we have sunk into the military industrial complex that Eisenhower spoke of. I believe we are at the starting line of fascism, and the military is the prime shaker and mover of fascism

In that respect, yes, there is a military mindset.

[PATRICK]

14. the military

as it exists is being gutted like a fish to be replaced with a corporate mercenary army replete with intimidating superweapons and remote killing capabilities. Civilian control indeed. Only the right kind of civilians and the right kind of dumbed down obeisant leadership such as ordinarily end up walking tall at Little Big Horn.

War is evil and it takes incredible discipline and decent civilian control to mange the beast when it is absolutely necessary.

When the cause is unjust the Saudukar degenerate like any other army would, being human and trained to abuse the purpose of the American military.

I guess this what the chickenhawks call"toughening up" without raising up any charismatic barrack room Emperors. Brutalized super soldiers who are barely civilians led by colorless culled morons worked like marionettes with the presumption that our power will compensate for lack of intelligence or morality.

That is still down the road that the WH is taking us with tactical nukes and deathstars in their hip pockets. It can and will get much much worse.

[indigobusiness]

16. We have reaped the whirlwind

that Eisenhower warned us about.

He will be seen as one of the great American prophets...next to Chief Seattle and Black Elk. Truly great warriors are men of peace.

[bobthedrummer]

23. Consider the following facts and see what you come up with, ok?

Abu Ghraib prison came to be dominated by MI, CIA and mercenaries that encouraged US military to commit crimes. Some of these MI, CIA and mercenaries participated in crimes, including murder. This was not an isolated incident.

Consider the fact that the history and culture of MI includes the influence of Col. Michael Aquino of the United States Army and the Defense Intelligence Agency.

Col. Michael Aquino was a Church of Satan priest that replaced the Church of Satan with his own cult/religion the Temple of Set in 1975 while on active duty.

Consider the nature of the crimes being reported and investigated throughout the command and control structure-murder, rape, torture, forced humilation, etc. Some elements of ritualistic crime are apparent.

Consider the fact that law enforcement has historically been prevented from prosecution of horrific crimes in America do to nameless individuals and agencies citing "national security" and shutting down investigations and cases.

Consider the fact that our national security community was created in 1947 and from it's very foundation included Nazis, organized crime and satanists. Corruption flourished as no one was held accountable in "the grand game"-until now.

NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.

Consider the facts, first.

[mermaidinaustin]

24. correction....cia's black heart

I do not believe that any officer would go along with these types of activities because a they would loose their jobs and b they would not allow it to be taped.

The so called "contractors" who were hired for interrogation gave the orders and the dumb ass kids who were guarding these prisoners carried them out.

Bush and Rumsfeld no doubt had full knowledge this was going on over a year ago and the only reason we are talking about it is because of the pics.

IMPEACH BUSH

[indigobusiness]

25. addendum

not correction.


http://www.cafeshops.com/indigobusiness

[jokerman93]

28. You're wrong about the "military mind"

I served two enlistments in the army. Four of those years I served on a forward deployed special ops CT unit (Special Forces -- Green Beret). I knew many soldiers -- officers and enlisted -- who were far better men than I, in principle and in practice.

Evil is a choice. Look to the leadership for the true failure of our honor, dignity and credibility.

[indigobusiness]

29. The proof

is in the pudding.

[Qanisqineq]

31. Breeds evil?

I don't think my husband's mind has been infected by anything and he's been in almost 9 years. Every soldier I know has no desire to go out killing. Sure, there are some individuals that join with the hopes of killing, but there are freaks in any group of people you name. Do some more research.

[indigobusiness]

34. Good people are corrupted everyday...

by power, by greed, and by the culture of killing.

Beware.

You might do some research as well.

http://sludgereport.blogspot.com/

[indigobusiness]

37. By the way...

I grieve for everyone suffering as a result of war. I just want the killing to stop, and armies to become obsolete.

[DU GrovelBot]

38. ## Support Democratic Underground! ##

==================
GROVELBOT.EXE v2.0
==================
 
The time now is 4:50:14PM EDT, Wednesday, May 12, 2004.
 
There are exactly...
4 days,
7 hours,
9 minutes, and
46 seconds left in our fund drive.
 
This website could not survive without your generosity. Member donations 
pay for more than 84% of the Democratic Underground budget. Don't let
GrovelBot become the next victim of the Bush economy. Bzzzt.
 
Please take a moment to donate to DU right now. Thank you for your support.
 
- An automated message from the DU GrovelBot

Click here to donate.

[Texican]

44. Why Upset With Torture?

The military in Iraq has been reported to have killed so many civilians for fun and to terrorize the populace that I don't see why we are talking about torure this week. The torured may be the lucky ones, they were not shot or thrown off bridges for fun.
Here is a very small sampling of what is common.

http://www.antiwar.com/orig/jamail.php?articleid=2563

[indigobusiness]

45. TORTURE

Is serious business.

Killing has become an everyday thing.