Does anyone still believe LIHOP?

[Must_B_Free]

(MIHOP)"It would take the participation of too many people to keep it quiet".

Like that guy who smashed the cassette and cut up the tape of the airline controllers conversations little pieces and and put it in separate trash cans around the building?

I'm fully convinced that there is a base of 20% of the people in this country that would gladly participate in MIHOP in order to engineer their 'Compassionate' Cultural Cleansing Revolution.

These people will loyally eat any thought the administration feeds them.

[GoBucksBeatBush]

1. ???

define? LIHOP? MIHOP?

[Must_B_Free]

3. here

(referring to 911)
LIHOP = Let It Happen On Purpose
MIHOP = Made It Happen On Purpose

[no_hypocrisy]

4. LIHOP = Let it happen on purpose. MIHOP = Make it happen on purpose

[Must_B_Free]

7. I know, but give him a break

everyone has to start somewhere.

Lets embrace people who are courteous enought to consider our dialogue.

[bahrbearian]

6. 911, ( LIHOP) Let it happen on Purpose, (MIHOP) Made it ....

[yowzayowzayowza]

9. DU Terms ...

and what not: http://dug.seattleactivist.org/

[newyawker99]

15. Hi GoBucksBeatBush!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[doni_georgia]

2. I did believe in LIHOP, but when I heard about the air traffic controller

incident I started REALLY leaning toward MIHOP. Amazing how this administration has a way of making the improbable probable. After what has come out this week in the news, I will doubt nothing horrific I hear about this administration.

Send Rush packing:
http://www.geocities.com/sendhimpacking/

[Warpy]

16. I disagree, they aint that smart

That tape probably did contain musings about why jets weren't scrambled witin 10 minutes of the notice that the planes had been hijacked, as was standard operating procedure. That would have been reason enough to destroy the tape.

They let it happen. They knew it was going to.

The one "conspiracy" that does fit the Bush gang incompetent profile is the small flurry of anthrax mailings to the photographer who published pics of the Bush twins falling down drunk, Dem senators and TV media people. Those targets were just too opportune for it to be anything else, and the way the spores escaped through the paper in the envelopes to affect postal workers was just hamfisted enough to be a Bushco venture.

Remember, the trail led to the weapons lab at Ft. Detrick and stopped cold.

After all, there has to be a reason Tenet still has a job. Perhaps he knows where this particular body is buried.

[KayLaw]

5. I still think LIHOP

Had they known right away they wouldn't have needed such a long and politically risky evacuation.

[Must_B_Free]

8. what do you mean?

evacuation of what? the towers?

[KayLaw]

11. No

I meant Cheney and Bush going on those long vacations that I think of as evacuations.

[starroute]

10. It could be both

It's becoming clear that Bush's main objective from the very start was to invade Iraq (both to help his oil buddies and to show up his daddy), and that he had no interest at all in taking on al Qaeda or the Taliban.

In that context, 911 and the invasion of Afghanistan start to look like an annoying distraction for him. No doubt he's found them useful, but I can't quite believe he intended them to happen.

So I've started to toy with the idea that 911 was the doing of a cabal within the government (mainly military/intelligence, though possibly also the Neocons/PNAC) and that the administration proper knew only hints of it and had no idea how extreme it would be.

I don't exactly believe this -- it's a bit too tinfoil even for me -- but I can certainly imagine it.

[jokerman93]

14. Sounds like the plot

Sounds like the plot of 24, second season.

Who knows?

[krkaufman]

17. LSHOP = Let SOMETHING Happen On Purpose

The * Administration had more than sufficient warning of an imminent terrorist attack to warrant *some* response, especially in light of their loose interpretation of "imminent" relative to Saddam Hussein.

For sanity's sake, I force myself to believe that even these monsters would not have allowed an attack of 9/11's magnitude, had they known the details in advance.

However, their near-total inaction against Al Qaeda from the time they entered office until September 11, indicates they may have desired *some* terrorist attack within the country -- in order to justify their invasion and privatization of Iraq.

The only other reasonable theory explaining their inaction is that of * Administration collusion with the Taliban as part of negotiations for running an oil pipeline through Afghanistan. (I just picked up a book to look into this theory further, "Forbidden Truth: U.S.-Taliban Secret Oil Diplomacy, Saudi Arabia and the Failed Search for bin Laden") This theory may also help explain the $45 million given to the Taliban to, ostensibly, eliminate poppy production.

Short of someone inside the Administration coming forward with incontrovertible evidence, I don't see anything coming from the *IHOP theories. There's sufficient evidence of the negligence and incompetence, separate from *IHOP, to convince any rational person to throw these criminals out of office. The dilemma is how to find them and how to convince them to take the red pill. And don't waste your time trying to convert Agent Smith.

[kaitykaity]

20. This is where I am as well.

I always thought of their actions on 9/11 as benign negligence.
They knew something was coming, they wanted a Pearl Harbor style
attack so they could implement their PNAC-Iraq war policy.

I don't think they thought the towers would actually come down.

Bush going into that classroom after the first plane hit, and
sitting there for 20 minutes after the second plane hit, tells
me everything I need to know.

[bobbieinok]

24. I can;t see anyone coming forward except on deathbed ->treason trial

[Pax Argent]

28. I think this is referred to as the soft LIHOP theory

PNAC wanted a "Pearl Harbor" event to start their war against the A-rabs. Rumors of aircraft hijackings? Maybe another federal building? No problem. Then "prove" that the A-rabs did it and voila, imperial expansion a la the Reichstag Fire in Nazi Germany.

When they come out and say "We never dreamed that they would drive airplanes into buildings", I think they may be telling the literal truth. Their reactions to 9-11 were pathetic enough to be real. If it were scripted Shrub would have been at Ground Zero waving the flag the next day. Whatever else, I'm fairly sure the Administration itself wasn't planning on something this big.

[krkaufman]

30. Whatever it's called, agreed...

When they come out and say "We never dreamed that they would drive airplanes into buildings", I think they may be telling the literal truth.

Exactly. Why do they insist on being so determined with qualifying their statements in this way. "... never dreamed that a McDonnel-Douglas MD-11 out of Boston Logan airport would be hijacked and then flown into the 72nd floor on the North face of WTC Tower One."

Personally, I infer it to mean that they know SOMETHING that they're not sharing.

NOTE: The above "facts" were pulled from my ___.

[scarletwoman]

12. I have firmly believed MIHOP since the day it happened.

Obviously, that was nothing more than a gut feeling at first, but beginning on the afternoon of 9/11 (as soon as I got home from work), I dove straight into research and didn't surface for months. And everything I found did nothing but confirm my initial intuition.

sw

[Heyo]

13. I can't say I agree with that 20 percent comment....

Some people may be that sick... but it isn't 20 percent...

Heyo

[lapfog_1]

18. The problem with a cover up

is that its still equally good for both.

For MIHOP, you have to prove that a group of conspirators planned the
9/11 attacks.

If that group includes OBL then you have to prove that the conspirators
met with him (yeah, there was a meeting between the CIA and OBL in that
hospital in Bahrain), that OBL agreed to the plot (Why would he be a
tool for the Bush/Saudi group planning it), and then the conspiracy
reached out to include a number of CIA operatives (to run the 9/11
distraction ops - such as the NORAD/FAA hijack training op on the
morning of 9/11, and so on... and the members of the conspiracy would
have to keep silent. If OBL is not used, then you have a much larger
conspiracy, where explosives or remote controlled planes are used
to attack the Pentagon and the WTC... possible, but not as likely.

For LIHOP, all you have to have is a very small group of conspirators,
who discovered that the attack was going to happen, and then used the
various levers to make sure that no response or interruption occurred.
This could be as small as 3 or 4 people in the right place (Cheney,
Tennett, Rice, with the help of maybe one or two trusted operatives)
This is actually called "Operation: Ignore" in Al Frankins book,
only I suspect he thinks it was simple incompetence instead of evil
purpose (new Pearl Harbor).

A suppression of government response (or lack) is good in both cases,
and only a few people need to be involved in that, like this idiot
at the FAA who destroyed the tapes. Some people not involved, but
starting to become suspicious, might well resign and write books
critical of the administration (oh, like the head of counter
terrorism, for example).

To believe that this was simple incompetence, you have to believe
that a great number of strange things happened just by coincidence.

My choice is still LIHOP. It's the easiest way to explain all of
the events, requires the fewest people to be "in the loop", and
can be hidden from the public because is mostly requires inaction
instead of action... and the American people forgive fumbling
and stupidity, especially if you then "turn around" and are seen
taking action.

[SnohoDem]

19. Is there a link about the tape?

I've never heard of that.

[Salviati]

23. Here ya go...

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/06/national/06CND-TAPE.html?hp

[SnohoDem]

27. Thanks n/t

[neverborn]

21. LIHOP

I can't believe it's MIHOP. I don't see it.

[AliceWonderland]

25. Regardless of what happened

LIHOP, MIHOP, incompetence, something else, a mix of columns A through J, the fact that one can't see it or one can't believe it is not an argument. It's just a wish.

[Dragon Turtle]

22. Not sure

of which, but I think they are feigning incompetence in attempts to cover up the LIHOP or MIHOP.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

26. I believe in a combination of LIHOP and general incompetence at the

highest levels. It was a combo of those two factors.

People who are fuck-ups can't handle fucked-up events very well.

[timtom]

29. DEFINITELY BELIEVE IN MIHOP

Several weeks ago I spoke out very passionately about this on another thread. My post was filled with emotion and I guess it got a bit rambling. I related how 9/11 reminded me of how I felt and what I suspected after the JFK assassination. My tone was ironic and I guess somebody didn't understand what I was reading. In any event, I was tombstoned.

So, let me make this perfectly clear:

I firmly believe that this administration is up to its eye teeth in complicity in this event.

These are evil bastards who know no allegiance to this nation, to us Americans, indeed, they owe no allegiance to any concept of decency or humanity.