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Rowdyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 11:25 PM
Original message
If video exists of Iraqi boys being raped by guards/interpreters
it will not be interpeted as a sadistic act used to manipulate/humiliate our opponents. Rape is an act of domination and violence, not a sex act. However, it will be interpreted as repressed, gay soldiers acting out their unnatural urges on poor boys.

I'm very much afraid they're gonna blame this on homosexuals in the military, ignoring the truth of the situation entirely.

So why am I not surprised...Check this out from the Washington Blade...

http://www.washblade.com/2004/5-7/news/national/iraq.cf...



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Demonaut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
1. hopefully it wont here but in freeperville you can bet your ass it will
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Rowdyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Right, certainly not here but what about the mainstream media...
Screw the freeps, I'm just afraid the networks (esp Faux) will jump at the chance to further demonize gays.
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #3
14. From my little bit of experience with Freepers.
There is not one thing that the admin* could do that would turn them against that scumbush.

That is a small percentage of the public. I don't think "normal" everyday voting citizens are gonna buy that.

There was obviously systematic torture and rape (of women and children) and from what I hear murder as well at Abu Ghraib. This is supposedly documented on video. There is no way that it can be spun as just military gays getting there jollies. There are gonna have to come up with something better than that.

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central scrutinizer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #1
18. and it will be the way to blame Clinton
Their drivel almost writes itself, "It's all Clinton's fault. Not only did he institute the "don't ask don't tell" policy, but his depravity and moral relativism has destroyed our great God-anointed President and country."
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 11:31 PM
Response to Original message
2. I know
we will be so screwed if this comes out. I hate the fact that if I were widely known to be gay by my coworkers at least some would wonder if I would mess with male students.
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Rowdyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. My partner teaches 10-12th grade public school...
He NEVER allows himself to be alone in the room with a student of either sex-its just too dangerous.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. same here
I always keep the door open if I have fewer than three people with me in a room.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #4
25. As a single, straight male coaching high school kids
... I followed the same exact precautions. I made sure I was never laone with a student in the school, no matter what gender, never gave them a ride, and never had them to my home.

I coached teams of kids competing in Odyssey of the Mind, a national 'creativity' competition after school and on weekends. While married guys could do all those things without much concern, it sure wasn't something I was willing to risk in a conservative, fundamentalist community.
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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. I believe it was a video
of Arabs raping boys while U.S. soldiers looking on.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. We will still be blamed
you can count on it. We are always blamed.
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. I do not think that is what has been documented shraby.
It appears that these are offenses perpetrated by Americans against Iraqis.

If you got some proof, post it.
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Zero Gravitas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #15
26. The only report so far
Say it was Iraqis doing the raping of the boys

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4855930

The officials said there was also a videotape, apparently shot by U.S. personnel, showing Iraqi guards raping young boys.
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 02:18 AM
Response to Reply #26
36. I hadn't seen that.
Do you believe that? Or do you think that it might be spin?
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Frances Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 11:33 PM
Response to Original message
5. I think it was Iraqi guards who raped the boys while
U.S. soldiers looked on. If that is true, I don't think gays in the U.S. military will be the issue. Although who would have thought that Hannity would see this crisis as an opportunity to accuse Kerry of committing atrocities?
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #5
33. That's correct...Iraqi guards allegedly did the deed...
...but apparently, U. S. soldiers did nothing to stop it, and if the reports are true, they filmed it.
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SlavesandBulldozers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
8. i don't think it will be
i don't think you should worry about that stance being taken.

The scandal in the Catholic church hasn't been blamed on gays, it has been blamed on the Culture of the Church. And so it will be with this.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. yes it has
I have heard that theory expouses several times. It wasn't more than a month or two ago that the Pope's number two man said that the scandal was proof gays were unfit.
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SlavesandBulldozers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. oh, youre talking about Freeper types
they blame everything on gays. I thought you were talking about real people.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. The Pope's number two man is a pretty real person
He may have views that I don't like but he also has the power to make them stick.
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Rowdyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. Its easy for us, here, on this board to marginalize religious bigots
We have enough sense to know them for the fools they are. But, in the real world, people often take them very, very seriously. The Vatican has (and uses) the power to do great harm on a whim. All too often, they take advantage of it.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. Why do you think both me and your partner
can't be fully open on our jobs? Could it be some of that religous power?
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Rowdyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. In the deep south? You bet your ass...
While Catholicism isn't that strong down here, fundamentalist religions are very influential.

That said, its remarkable how little animosity our relationship has caused in our small town. Pretty much all of our current neighbors really like us (hasn't always been the case). It probably helps that neither of us are obviously gay. We don't seem to scare straights like more overt gays would. Also, most of the older people we know are educated and are extremely tolerant.

I once had a friends 80ish aunt chastise me while drinking a glass of wine. Her complaint? Because our house had no Christmas decorations! "I told everybody that my gay friends in Canton would have a fabulous house and what did I find? A dark house! I was VERY disappointed!"

God bless Ruth, may she rest in peace.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. that is a riot
For a lot of years, I was the Christmas decorator in my family. I did the tree, I did the wrapping, I did the other decorations. The only thing I wouldn't do was the outside lights. Now that I live alone I don't really do that anymore. I lived in MS, Indianola, for a few years myself. My landlord knew I was gay and was suprisingly good about it. But my prinicpal's brother had a Cartman style hissy fit when I wouldn't deny being gay to my class, then and now I refuse to answer or deflect. So it was a mixed bag.
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Rowdyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #24
29. I worked for the state for 23 years and never was asked, but, had I been
I had an answer ready. I worked as an employment interviewer/manager for the state Job Service. Had I been asked, my answer would have been "From 8am to 5pm, I'm a damned good interviewer. After that, its none of your business".

However, all my co-workers knew that:

a. I never talked about dating, women etc and
2. I lived in a big, old house with the same man for 15 years

Like Suzanne said to A date-hungry Mary Jo in a great episode of Designing Women (set in a grocery) "Two men, one buggy, fresh pasta-you figure it out!"

All my bosses were great, but my last one was the best of all. National Guard, redneck, tobacco chewing country boy who was smart as a whip and had a masters in psychology. He played me like a cheap violin! Never, ever, used his knowledge against me.

There are some extremely cool straight people out there.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #29
31. I was only there for two years and got the hell out
I also lived alone. But up here I often shop with my brother in law. My sister has no interest in, nor much talent at, kitchen type stuff. So he and I go shopping and often will cook. I know that my students must wonder when they me he and I together. He is one of those oblivious to appearences straights who doesn't get that it looks odd for us to have one cart, etc. But, I really don't get asked too much. And when I do it isn't rudeness as much as curiousity. My answer, if I get cornered, is usually the same lines as yours.
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Rowdyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #31
35. We live about 30 miles away from where my guy teaches so
its not a problem. However, we don't eat in restaurants in the part of town where his school is located. Too many of these kids hold grudges.
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northernsoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #23
40. funny, our gay neighbors are the undisputed Kings of Christmas
Seriously, their Christmas decorating is like a multi-month long industrial operation that culminates in the best damn Holiday open house in St. Paul, live musicians and everything.

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meg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
10. It's happened without those videos
My local hate radio show had two callers on during the 20 minutes I listened blaming the naked, hooded men photographs on 'those homos' or the 'don't ask don't tell crowd'. The host agreed. Savage also brought up this theme during the 6 minutes I listed to him.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. the irony is that often times gay boys
have this kind of crap (the humiliation part not the sodomy part) done to them in school due to being gay. Yet, we get blamed, go figure.
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CityZen-X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
11. Reflections of a Sick Government
The sick evil bastards that have perpetrated these acts against the Iraqi prisoners are truly a reflection of this vile, odious so called Bu$h*t government! And for them to make goats of the alleged homosexual faction in the military is surely an act of cowardliness to the extreme.
The Commander and Chimp has claimed that God has put him into the residency, and this same God has willed him to attack Iraq.
In my opinion this is he same God that told that Texas women to murder her three children! How apropos that they all come out of Texas.
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sophie996 Donating Member (224 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #11
19. when god speaks ...
"The Commander and Chimp has claimed that God has put him into the residency, and this same God has willed him to attack Iraq."

And some call Joan of Arc crazy. Imagine that.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 12:18 AM
Response to Original message
22. Anyone Remember Mademoiselle Fifi?
Edited on Sat May-08-04 12:19 AM by Crisco
One of my favorite DeMaupassant stories, about a sadist in wartime.

http://www.classicreader.com/read.php/sid.6/bookid.472

Anyone who begins to even try to blame this on homosexuals as an agenda issue should be slapped and called out for the exploiters they are.

This isn't about gays, this is about people who need to prove how big and strong and tough they are.
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #22
27. I hope they never show the videos. Use them for evidence but don't show
them. The culture those poor people come from kill their family members for 'honor'. I hope since they've already been victimized, we don't show the videos and perhaps insure their deaths if their families feel honor killings are the next step. We've hurt them enough.
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bolokshi Donating Member (103 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #27
32. Why Not....
people need to see what they voted for, its all about being fascist. Can some one remind me of WW11 wht went on.
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 12:40 AM
Response to Original message
28. I'm sorry, but if video or photos emerge of soldiers raping little boys...
Edited on Sat May-08-04 12:42 AM by VolcanoJen
... this war will be over. The American people will run away from it as if it were the SARS virus. It doesn't even matter if the soldiers/interrogators weren't doing the raping. The fact that they filmed it and watched will be just about all most good American people will be able to bear.

Yes, sick asshole pricks like Hannity and Rush will invoke the "gays in the military" thing, but it's damned hard to remain "outraged" about Michael Jackson yet avert your eyes to crimes committed by "the troops."

If these rumors end up being proven true, popular support for the war will END. And it didn't take photos of flag-draped coffins, what the Pentagon has been so afraid of, to reach this eventuality.
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. Who was it that said only a video of * raping...
...a boy would bring this administration down?

I'm beginning to think the media can spin anything.
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 03:54 AM
Response to Reply #30
37. Well... let's see.. we've tried everything else... here's my analogy.
It's hard to piece it together, but since late last summer, we've had Joe Wilson, Wilson/Plame Affair, YellowCakeGate (all related, but seperate in details), Paul O'Neill, David Kay, Medicare "True Cost" Scam, Richard Clarke, 9/11 Commission, "Al Qaeda Determined to Attack US", Bob Woodward... and nothing's stuck. Nothing has traction.

I hate to keep repeating it, because it makes me look as though I were bowing to a Freeper Mentality, but dammit, that's exactly what we're dealing with.

This story has legs because it's about SEX at its core. Complete with photographs and videos. The only reason this story has legs is because the media is addicted to the salacious details contained within this story, and said salacious details' potential for big, big ratings.

It's bad enough on its face. Most DUers hated this bullshit war from the get-go. But it took SEX to make America pay attention. Surprised? I'm not.

America will be surprised, however, as soon as female and boy victims are introduced into the equation.

It is not my intention to dumb this down. It is my intention to be honest. It's SEX. And America won't put up with much more of this what will we tell the children crap.
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. America does seem fixated on sex.
They didn't seem to care about the number of Iraqis who were actually killed during the invasion.
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bolokshi Donating Member (103 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #28
34. Video Should come out
120% support for video, its not only the Army but the downfall of these sycophants. The sooner the better...........TOODOLOO
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Moloch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 04:14 AM
Response to Original message
38. Aren't women and girls being raped too?
Completely disgusting. There goes bush's second rationale for invasion...
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