men who could approve torture, could have approved 9-11

[mopaul]

if a group of american 'leaders' can sit in a meeting room and outline a plan to take over the world by force, instructing their troops to throw away 60 years of lessons learned from defeating the nazis, they could also be sub-human enough to set up the catalyst of 9-11.

whether they did or not, is still being debated, and may never be settled, but the event itself, has set off a chain or horrors equal to the falling towers and 3,000 lost souls. 20,000 innocents have died in afghanistan and iraq, two countries that had nothing to do with 9-11.

the event, 9-11, changed the world. changed our brains. triggered the worst in us, fear, paranoia, hatred, vengence, jingoism, division, polarization and acrimony.

the torturing soldiers were lied to by their commander in chief. he told them the iraqis did 9-11, so torturing them comes natural. we were all lied to. not about a silly affair, but the most god-awful treasonous, murderous, fascist things imaginable.

all those men who died fighting nazis and fascists during world war two would curse bush for allowing members of the army to torture prisoners of war. they fought to rid the world of torturing, pre-emptive striking, nation invading, master race ranting, imperialist nazi swine. they died by the millions to eliminate storm troopers from kicking in the doors of sleeping innocents and torture and kill them with smiles on their faces.

if men like wolfowitz, kristol, rumsfeld, rice and daddybush can all sit around planning these horrors against humanity without feeling one ounce of human compassion or regard for the human suffering they inflict, they could just as easily have deliberately orchestrated 9-11, possibly even with osama's assistance. there are men who are that evil. unbelievable as it is, there are men like that in our white house.

[DenverDem]

1. You are on to something.

It all starts at the top.

[Atman]

2. BINGO!

Great post.

[1amc]

3. "men who could approve torture, could have approved 9-11"

Please review this site
http://www.letsroll911.org/

[Warpy]

10. Oh, bollocks

That was the door on the main landing gear, not a missile. There would have been no reason for a missile, and it would have made the plane fly funny. The doof at the controls just punched the wrong damn button before impact. Had there been a missile, it would have made no sense to wait that long for launch. Analysis of the fireball showed it was jet fuel, not explosives.

This conspiracy stuff detracts from the real horror of 9/11, the horror that can be seen by watching the film of Bush at the Booker school, being told of the second crash, and doing nothing.

He knew. They all knew. They just let it happen. THAT is the real horror, not this conspiracy BS.

[mopaul]

11. so letting it happen was not a conspiracy?

either scenario would be a conspiracy, which requires two or more persons in on it.

[King_Crimson]

19. Mopaul...you are (and always have been)...

one of my favorites on this board! May I introduce you to a little something as a show of appreciation for all you do (naturally...others welcome also) www.serendipity.li/wtc.htm

[King_Crimson]

20. Little something here...

for ya my friend..www.bombsinsidewtc.dk Just READ IT...SKIP NOTHING!

[hang a left]

13. You know it really bothers me when people call people out

for theories on 9-11. Lets face it. There is alot we don't know about those damn planes. You can accept one theory, LIHOP, according to your post, but not another. Then instead of just keeping it to yourself, you have to be rude and shoot someone down.

That really pisses me off. And it happens far too much here.

Here is something else I read along time ago, but, was just reminded of today.

DulceDecorum (1000+ posts) Thu May-06-04 01:36 PM
Response to Original message

37. Meanwhile, ALL FOUR planes


survived the events of September 11, 2001.

The two separate foreign owners of the two American Airlines planes took them off the FAA register by claiming that both their respective jets were destroyed on January 14, 2002.

The two United Airlines planes remain on the FAA registry to this very day.
Furthermore, N591UA, better known as Flight 93,
has been seen flying around Chicago and has landed at the United Airlines hub at O'Hare.
United is passing this plane off (Serial number 28142)
to Air Traffic Control and the FAA,
as N594UA. (Serial Number 28145)

You can verify the FAA registrations for yourself at
http://162.58.35.241/ACDATABASE/DEFimg.ASP
and the relevant N-Numbers and serial numbers
are easily obtained from any search engine.

For more information on the pilots and the planes,
come on down to the 9:11 forum and look at some of the threads



There are so many twists and turns in the events that led up to, took place during, and happened after 9-11. Why does your "conspiracy theory" carry more weight than another? The truth is, we will never know the truth. 9-11 investigation is a crime in progress, conspiracy after the fact. All we can ever do is try to individually piece it together for ourselves, each one of us as an individual. I am not sure of each and every little complicit move that was made. For me, I started out not knowing. Then advanced to LIHOP. Unfortunately I have arrived at MIHOP. It is a personal experience, IMO.

[RC]

16. The missile makes lots of sense.

They needed to be sure the plane went all the way in. Why would anyone be punching buttons while in the process of deliberately flying into a building anyway?
If one could see the door on the main landing gear, you should be able to see the wheel trucks. Where were the wheels?

The missile exploding inside would make sure the jet fuel would ignite. It doesn't take a big missle for that. Fires from crashing jets are not a sure thing.

[Minstrel Boy]

15. Some time ago I reviewed the site you keep pushing

in practically every one of your posts, 1amc, and I came to the conclusion that it's disinformation.

Now, I'm not suggesting that you, in your incessant efforts to get 9/11 skeptics onto the missile-strike-on-the-WTC tangent, are purposefully sewing disinformation and trying to get us to expend our energies running down a discrediting dead end. That would be wrong.

[Old and In the Way]

17. Missles would be a dumb give-away. IMHO.

assuming that this was a "black-ops" staged hit, the whole intent would be to convince us that they were the airliners. So why would they take a chance firing missles that could be easily recorded by the public? Especially when you have 300K lb fuel bombs, flying 500+ mph, into glass and aluminum walls? Did they think a 757 would crumple upon impact?

I've seen the slo-mo pics and I'm not convinced. That orange spot is most definitely the energy release of the plane contacting the walls at point of impact.

Now that "pod" thing on the undercarriage.....I'm pretty sure that's not an artifact, so that makes me suspicious. I would dearly like to see some other film from another viewpoint to confirm it's existance.

[azmesa207]

4. To Mo paul

I think your closer to the truth than America wants to know

[KidneyStoner]

5. men who approve torture, DO approve of 9-11

No Florida 2K? No bush. No bush? No 9-11. No 9-11? No war.

History tailgates.

[Pobeka]

6. "A fish stinks from the head first"

I believe that's an old Japanese saying. Amazing how often it's true.

[xultar]

7. There's no need to approve torture. Least of all there is no need for

wolfowitz, rummy and the other dummies to approve torture.

That shit would have been done just cuz. It doesn't take much for any idiot to say do what you have to do to get information from the prisoners. What they didn't add is just don't get caught.

The ability to do such despicable things to another human being is already present in some people. Think of all the torture and shit people do to their own children.

Hell, just the other day a couple was arrested for a 45 pound 19 year old son. Parent's raping their own children, starving their kids, beating them, selling them into prostitution.

[hang a left]

8. Once you have, in your gut, accepted MIHOP

You can no longer trust anyone or anything in government. At least that is how I feel. I, in the deepest part of me, know they did it on purpose. I don't have to prove it to anyone. I know. And since this realization, I have never been the same.

[Steven_S]

9. They approve torture...

They approve 9/11.

They approve war.

They approve full spectrum domination.

It's a mindset we're up against. A culture of hate.

The end justifies the means.

They also approve, many of them, armageddon.

We're going to have a hard way to go to change this.

But you knew that.

[bolokshi]

12. Scary..........But true

I have always said that these evil bastard are responsible for what is going on right now around the world, I don't think 9/11 was a muslim plan, we have the men at the white house that would have come up with such great ideas, If the terrorist had had the chance they (9/11)would have done something like this long time ago, this was never in their thought, because they know that there where muslims working in those buildings as well as people from different cultures, only someone who is as heartless as these lot would have come up with this type of massacre. People take your time to analyze most of the events that have happen in America, from Oklahoma to 9/11.....it makes you wonder sometime how can this happen, if someone robs you its either they know you or they know someone who knows you.

In life we have to sometimes look closer to find the answer, its not always you have to look further, it can be so close that you can't even see it.

Just imagine these people show no remorse whatsoever to those boys loosing their lives everyday, none whatsoever to those that are in hospitals, when have you seen George dubya oh sorry Bush paid any vist to these guys none that I know of, unless they are keeping that under raps too... but onething is for sure if he was visiting any of them we would have heard about it long time ago. America went to war for no apparent reason, everday you read about soldiers fighting the course, but asked them if they really know what they went their for and you can hear the way they are crying out for help within, but they sure can't speak out, because of treason.

Its time to let these fascist go once and for all, my question is how in the world Americans did not see through this guy, everyone in Europe know about him except some Americans, why did the good nature Americans allow such a thing to take place.........but have faith, hopefully this will open the eyes of the behold and let them know the demon they have let into their mist. "May God Help Us All"

[Webster Green]

14. I'm dedicating my 1000th post to this thread, mopaul!

You definitely cut to the chase!!

[calimary]

18. I hate to think of things like this because

it just does not seem all that far-fetched to me. Especially now. It IS thinkable. It is NOT beyond the realm of possibility. I mean, we do have a track record of lies and deceits and manipulations large and small, that's gone on for years. For as far and as long as you want to trace it back, if all you do is just confine your efforts to bush and cheney only.

These are truly horrible people. Wrapping themselves in the flag and Christ's own burial cloth. Perpetrating the lowest, sleaziest, greediest, pettiest, most arrogant, most power-mad sins imaginable against their fellow man and our planet. Because they want the oil, the real estate, the bragging rights and control over other people's lives and belief systems in every other country on earth.

It may be conspiracy-nut stuff to many. Yeah, even still a little bit to me, too. But not all that much, anymore. Besides, would any of us have honestly, deep-down, believed that all the stuff we DO now know as factual - would happen?

Oh yeah, one other thing. You're damned spot-on about the reference to OUR White House. Because THAT is what it is. And what it was designed and built to be, and what it's supposed to be as long as even a shred of the America we love still exists. It's OUR WHITE HOUSE. And nobody, ANYWHERE in this country, should EVER forget that.

[neebob]

21. D'ya think?

I'm not trying to be snotty; I just think it's pretty obvious. These are people who capitalized on this horrible event - and I happen to believe they allowed it and am leaning toward believing they created it, but that's beside the point - grabbed the excuse to invade two other countries, lied about the reasons, and don't give a damn who gets killed or how much it costs everyone else. One of them thinks nothing of grabbing other people's clothing and using it to clean his glasses. Why anyone thinks these people have anything resembling a conscience continues to be a mystery to me.

[King_Crimson]

22. To quote Mike Malloy (since we have been discussing him quite a bit here..

tonight. From a show this past winter...and he was directing these remarks at any lurking 'pukes who might have been listening that night... "Can you imagine what you will THINK when evidence is presented that YOUR GOVERNMENT orchestrated this horrible attack...or what our grandchildren will think if it comes to light after you and I are dead...and you want to re-install this murderous bunch of THUGS back in the White House???" It was one of those nights when I thought Malloy would implode.

[maggrwaggr]

23. the torture's nothing. You obviously haven't seen all the dead baby pics

people who can do THAT are capable of anything and have no respect for human life and could quite perfectly rationalize causing 9/11 to advance their desires.

[mopaul]

25. actually i have seen the dead babies

and i've posted several threads over the last week making the point about the slaughter, versus the torture. 20,000 dead in the two countries we've invaded. there are sites on the web that show all the dead people, but DU doesn't want the horror on their site, which i understand. bush don't want us to see dead babies.

o.k., we'll stop torturing, but the slaughter goes on

[gandalf]

24. This is a very good point

Some people say "I cannot believe that our government would commit such a horrible crime and kill 3000 innocent Americans". But this argument is defeated by your point, by the class of arguments your argument belongs to.

Why should a group of people who obviously don't care for (Iraqi/Afghan/Japanese/foreign) human life care for American life? If they were really Christians, the nationality could not matter. But more important, US governments have shown in history that they don't care for American life either. They sent hundreds of thousand of young Americans to an unnecessary war in Vietnam. They exposed soldiers to radioactivity for experimental purposes in the 1960s. That are only some examples.

People who show so little respect for human life are certainly capable of horrible actions.