I never dreamed America would sink to this level

[mopaul]

i swear. i'm 53 almost, and never in my wildest most deluded apocolyptic nightmares could i have ever imagined an america like this. it's truly like a bad dream.

torture now acceptable and being argued in favor of. pre-emtpive invasions. un approved wars. 20,000 dead innocents in afghanistan and iraq. the patriot act. PNAC.

i'm going through severe shock, in slow doses. wish i could go back in time, but i can't. i have to steel myself for what's coming.
something really awful is coming to america. and it can't be stopped. it'll be up to us to pick up the shattered pieces and repair the deep damagae bushco's nazis have wreaked.

[xray s]

1. Read "It Can't Happen Here" by Sinclair Lewis

he predicted this.

[JanMichael]

11. Great book. Same with "Ironheel" by London.

Good stuff for setting the imagination loose.

[roguevalley]

2. I know. I'm 51 and can remember another America that seems so far

away. I have been depressed since December, 2000. No
one pays for their crimes anymore.

[Unperson 309]

23. Not Quite True...

*sigh* they've rigged it so WE pay for their crimes!

Folks, what if we just hauled off and TOOK IT BACK?

Not an armed revolution, but rather a popular uprising? We could start it at home, on our own blocks, person to person. We could buy those little American lapel flags and wear then pinned to our clothing with a rainbow ribbon behind them to signify we are the NEW AMERICA. And we can start by being kind.

Remember the unity we had for a brief time after 9/11? When drivers paused to let the guy next lane over come in line ahead of them? When we held doors for people at the bank? When se smiled at each other in mutual sympathy?

When did we stop? Why don't we start again? Why don't we form a march on Washington carrying signs that say "BUSH DOES NOT SPEAK FOR ME!" and "IRAQ, The People of NEW America APOLOGIZE!"?

What have I done? I have emailed my representatives, I have emailed the Kingdom of Jordan to speak words of reconciliation, I have begun to act the way I think I OUGHT to act, but don't unless I think about it...

We don't need guns and bombs for this revolution! We need to start saying things like "I'm sorry," "Here, you may have this," "Thank you so much," and "Take care of yourself."

We need to start being the people our parents WANTED us to be in the FIRST place! If enough of us start, others will notice!

309

[KAZ]

31. Nice post 309.

I'll be sporting my first bumper sticker(Kerry) as soon as I get it. I already do most of the rest of your post. Not, necessarily, to be nice, but to keep my sanity.

[proud patriot]

36. This is how I live my Life , I am my own popular uprising

with my yard signs and my car's messages .
I even made a proud patriot jacket
It says "bush is a liar" on it .

Welcome underground Unperson 309 I wish
more people would start speaking out .

[calimary]

27. Same here, rogue. I'll be 51 next week.

NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER have I seen it this bad. And I have been politically aware for about 30 of those years. Just barely woke up during Vietnam. Definitely by Watergate (whose intrepid reporters inspired me to go into journalism - they don't make 'em like THAT anymore).

NEVER. And yes, I, too, have been depressed since December 2000. But I didn't have a clue how bad it would become. It's beyond my worst nightmares.

[IconoclastIlene]

3. It sank...yes it did.

and the shit stinks so bad they should clean out the diaper pail.

[corporatewhore]

4. dupe

[corporatewhore]

5. what do you mean sink?

read howard zinns a peoples history of te united states

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. It is up to us to stand up now

this is the last chance we will have in a generation...

Get over the shock and grief, it is going to get far worst before it gets any better

[MuseRider]

7. Yup

I am 50 and we have sure seen a lot in our time on this planet but this is unimaginable to me as well. Maximum disgust and sadness. We do have a lot of work to do after we take these bastards down.

[seabeyond]

8. this is what hate does

have been watching it for three years intensely but really started noticing late 90's. this is exactly what you get when everyone is pitted against the other, when we can find wrong and judge all for whatever we dont like. what happens with no acceptance and allowing

so all you seeing evil in the smoking me and feel my children should be taken away

knock it off you are feeding this hate in your own way

i use smoking cause it is just a smaller version so clearly of the larger. interesting the way this works in life

[MisterP]

17. the first paragraph makes good sense,

but the rest seems to me like another post got mixed in there

[seabeyond]

22. wink

i know but that is ok

[BeFree]

9. Almost 53, too

My veteran dad must rolling over... the shame.

mopaul, you are right, it is up to us if America is ever to be the best. We can do this. We must.

[blondeatlast]

13. My dad died last year, just after the invasion occurred.

He was a WW2 vet who found it too painful to talk about.

I'm actually glad he can't see what is happening.

[calimary]

29. My dad died right at the beginning of 2000. He never saw any of this.

I am glad. He used to say, with some pride, that although he was a WW2 veteran, he was never in a position to use a gun against his fellow man. I was always impressed that he felt that way - VERY enlightened. Funny enough, my father-in-law, who died a couple of years ago and saw 9/11 but not what came after it, was in a similar position as a WW2 veteran. My dad flew photo recon. My father-in-law was an Army doctor. Neither one of them dealt violence to anyone else. Kinda noble the way that worked out. I know both of them would be cringing now. Probably are. I'm glad they're removed from this. They'd be aghast and ashamed. Brings a whole new meaning to "shock and awe."

[blondeatlast]

10. 44 here, and I know what you mean.

Even with Reagan, I still thought the US was the greatest nation in the world.

I can't believe I'm in this nightmare. Excusing violations of the Geneva Convention, hell, LETTING IT HAPPEN--where has MY country gone?

As luck has it, I finished reading "Worse Than Watergate" just today.

I hate to say this, but the US will never recover from this, because there are too many disillusioned US citizens now.

[madmax]

12. 55 here and very disillusioned.

I'm sorry for the younger generation and my grandkids. And so much more but, it hurts to even try to articulate how I feel.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. I see both things with the kids

the I don't care no more, why try?

From time to time the kid who is commited and wants to change things

Then I saw the one who wanted to, and after Sept 11 she has eaten every piece of shit coming down her way... SICK, a very idealistic kid became a freeper overnight

[kentuck]

14. Oh, you've forgotten 9/11?

Nothing we can do can make up for what they did to us on that day.

(playing the devil's advocate)

But, we haven't forgotten 9/11. That is why the nation was united after 9/11 in going after the terrorists that attacked our nation. Somehow, we simply could not digest such an un-American thought as "pre-emptive war". We have never been able to accept that idea. Then when we have abuse and torture of the invaded country, it is simply more than our consciences can bear...

[Piperay]

16. I agree

I'm of your age and I think this is the lowest America has ever sank.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

18. your 53?

Why did I think you where much younger, perhaps in yr 30s?

neat graphic in yr sigline, BTW.

[mopaul]

26. barbara the dog says thanks

you thought i was younger cause of my naturally wavy hair.

[tiedye]

19. 35 and not shocked

I've been reading Amnesty International's journal for some time now and these are the nice pictures. The ones with some almost "comic" relief. The 75 year old woman being harnessed and riden like a donkey is another stellar moment for our proud troops.
Look, the word is Apartheid. The project for a new american century is the most viscious self inflating supremist doctrines on the face of the Earth.
I'm sorry to offend, and it's not true of a lot of GI's, but there are plenty of racist, uneducated thugs in america and for hire that get off on lude sex and violence.
No wonder Gandhi was celebate. It makes me want to vomit.

[atreides1]

20. 45

I was wondering today at work why I spent 13 years in the US Army so that people like Rush and Hannity, along with the others whose family trees go straight up, could revel in hatred and justify dehumanizing other people.

And what makes it worse is that politicians like Inhoffe from Oklahoma go on national television and attempt to justify the torture and abuse of others, by saying we have to win.

Not like this we don't.

Perhaps the time is coming when we will once again have to fight for our freedom, but this time we need to insure that no political party
or agenda has the ability to gain control over all branches of the
government. No more life time federal judgeships, no more special retirement plans for any member of Congress, no more lobbyists making laws, public disclosure of all deals between the government and businesses, with the only exception being those that deal with national security. I have other suggestions but it would take too long to list them.

[rebellious woman]

24. 70 and over........ I'm in a nightmare and it never ends.

[mopaul]

25. i was born under truman, who were you born under?

the nightmare has to end soon

[rebellious woman]

30. Herbert Hoover 1930-1933

a rebellious, liberated woman way ahead of my time
by the way. And very much a "PROUD LIBERAL" and
I let everyone know it!!!!!!

[stanwyck]

21. Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin,

all the visionaries who built this country. All the people from all over the world who have come here and suffered to make this a better country. The people who faught for civil rights for all people. The people who bravely integrated the schools. The people who faught against child labor, poverty, illiteracy, and disease. How sad for these Americans that our country has become a symbol of oppression, lies, and greed. And yet we have half our country so blinded with nationalism, not patriotism, that they won't help us stop the destruction of our beautiful America. I am sad for us all.

[corporatewhore]

32. fuck jefferson he was an ethnic cleasner -manifest destiny

[mopaul]

33. & he really screwed over sally hemmings & her ancestors

but he's on the nickel, and the fiver.

[Art_from_Ark]

42. Better take another look at your fivers, mopaul

Jefferson's on the two-spot. Abe's on the fiver

[mopaul]

45. thanks ark......what've i been smoking?

shows you how broke ass i am.

[Art_from_Ark]

46. By the way, in response to your original question

I started to get a somewhat queasy feeling back in high school in the 70s. I couldn't quite put a finger on it at the time, it had something to do with Nixon but there was more to it. After high school, I traveled around, by bus, car, even bicycle, and found out that there were quite a few people in the country even then who gave me the willies (in all fairness, however, I did meet a lot of good people, especially in Iowa and Minnesota). The two landslide elections of Reagan against better men convinced me that things would be going downhill in a hurry. Hearing demagogues like Pigboy go unchallenged on the radio-- especially on military radio-- was just another ominous sign that things were going to pot.

[Doc_Technical]

28. The older I get, the more ironic life gets.

For example; I despised Richard Nixon but every Republican President
who followed "tricky dick", was dumber and more dishonest that
his party predecessor.
In fact, I sometimes think that we wouldn't be in as bad shape if
Nixon were President now.
If you told me, 30 years ago, that I would make this statement, I
would have called you insane.


In my 52 years, I've seen what I would have described as bad manners,
become hatred and contempt by people in this country toward their
fellow citizens.
Not only is there less acceptence of people of different races and
religions, but there is increasing hatred toward anyone who has
an opinion that differs even slightly from their own.

It is very difficult to persuade others about the dangerous path
that this country is taking, to people who choose to remain ignorant
of the past and choose a lifestyle of selfishness, hatred, greed,
xenophobia, and blind nationalism.

The next few years will be very difficult. No matter what the outcome,
I feel that I have to give this struggle all I have because I couldn't
live with myself if I did nothing.

[Veggie Meathead]

34. I think the old magic of America is wearing off for

three reasons:

1. The corrosive effects of racism.
2. The relentless demonization of Arabs/Muslims/Palestinians by the Israelis for the past fifty years.
3. The rise of Christian Fundamentalism which has undermined the
principle of separation of church and state.

These forces are the ones that spread hatred.Unless we appeal to the decent half of our fellow citizens to wage campaigns against those who would spread hatred and fear, I do not believe that America will be the same place we used to experience.We at DU must find ways to reach out to people different in religion, nationality and color to
overcome the poisons that have infected our society.It is only by spreading the message of goodwill toward our fellow men and women that we can recapture the America that we all love.

[blondeatlast]

35. Read "Worse Than Watergate" by John Dean.

I just finished it and am recommending it to EVERYONE.

Nixon was a bleeding pussycat compared to these two--and Dean is NOT SOFT on Nixon, either.

[goforit]

37. Yes...... low for both Repugs and Dems!!!!...........= 100% Pathetic!!!

All of Congress with the exception of a tolken few
need to resign ........Dems and Repugs!!!

They all are guilty with hands soaked in blood, perversion and lawlessness!!!!

And WE SHOULD NOT ALLOW THEM TO REPRESENT US, as US CITIZENS!!!!!


All of them ARE anti AMERICAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Karenina]

41. 95-3?

John Negroponte? :sigh:

[Christ was Socialist]

43. Thank you i agree. I say it all the time <nt>

[TankLV]

38. I wish I had a dollar for every time I heard, read and thought that.

It's a sad sad broken record.

[Redleg]

39. America didn't sink to this level- Bush, Inc. did.

I believe the majority of Americans are as disturbed as we are by the bullshit going on in Iraq and Afghanistan. It's the very vocal majority right-wing fuckwads who don't have a problem with it.

[dsc]

40. I just can't believe how bad it has gotten

I honestly wonder just what country I live in. Am I really an American or just some person who happened to be born here? Hard to know at this point.

[Skittles]

44. I feel the same way mopaul

it's been a long, slow slide.

[Disturbed]

47. More radical

I seem to get more radical and to the left the older I get. I thought most people get more conservative. I am now in the Green Party and not to keen on J. Kerry but I don't intend to vote for Nadar because America cannot survive more years of these NeoFascists. I could write a real long article about what I feel is going on now but will spare you all from that. hahaha I am real upset but the Net and a few places like this actually calms me down.

[mikeytherat]

48. (one from Walter Becker -- he of Steely Dan fame)

"So I'm pulling in a picture now, off of my back pages,
and all at once I am privy to the entire, grim design
of a great civilization in the terminal stages
of a slow but steady mental, moral, spiritual decline."
-- Walter Becker, "Girlfriend"

mikey_the_rat

[peacefreak]

49. America's karma is kicking in.

I also feel a great deal of despair. That despair is only topped by my great disgust. The world has taken stock of who we are as a nation & has found us lacking in all the moral fiber that the bush right would like to claim we have. The problem is we as a country are blind & deaf to the reality that we do not exist in a vacuum. What kindness or cruelty one does impacts on us all. It is our national arrogance that will do us in. Right now we are being held hostage as much as those people in the Iraqi prison.
The only thing I can think of doing is to be as honorable as I can be on a personal basis. It might not change the world, but maybe my small corner will be more livable.