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mopaul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:58 PM
Original message
I never dreamed America would sink to this level
i swear. i'm 53 almost, and never in my wildest most deluded apocolyptic nightmares could i have ever imagined an america like this. it's truly like a bad dream.

torture now acceptable and being argued in favor of. pre-emtpive invasions. un approved wars. 20,000 dead innocents in afghanistan and iraq. the patriot act. PNAC.

i'm going through severe shock, in slow doses. wish i could go back in time, but i can't. i have to steel myself for what's coming.
something really awful is coming to america. and it can't be stopped. it'll be up to us to pick up the shattered pieces and repair the deep damagae bushco's nazis have wreaked.
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xray s Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
1. Read "It Can't Happen Here" by Sinclair Lewis
he predicted this.
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JanMichael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. Great book. Same with "Ironheel" by London.
Good stuff for setting the imagination loose.
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
2. I know. I'm 51 and can remember another America that seems so far
away. I have been depressed since December, 2000. No
one pays for their crimes anymore.
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Unperson 309 Donating Member (836 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #2
23. Not Quite True...
*sigh* they've rigged it so WE pay for their crimes!

Folks, what if we just hauled off and TOOK IT BACK?

Not an armed revolution, but rather a popular uprising? We could start it at home, on our own blocks, person to person. We could buy those little American lapel flags and wear then pinned to our clothing with a rainbow ribbon behind them to signify we are the NEW AMERICA. And we can start by being kind.

Remember the unity we had for a brief time after 9/11? When drivers paused to let the guy next lane over come in line ahead of them? When we held doors for people at the bank? When se smiled at each other in mutual sympathy?

When did we stop? Why don't we start again? Why don't we form a march on Washington carrying signs that say "BUSH DOES NOT SPEAK FOR ME!" and "IRAQ, The People of NEW America APOLOGIZE!"?

What have I done? I have emailed my representatives, I have emailed the Kingdom of Jordan to speak words of reconciliation, I have begun to act the way I think I OUGHT to act, but don't unless I think about it...

We don't need guns and bombs for this revolution! We need to start saying things like "I'm sorry," "Here, you may have this," "Thank you so much," and "Take care of yourself."

We need to start being the people our parents WANTED us to be in the FIRST place! If enough of us start, others will notice!

309
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KAZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #23
31. Nice post 309.
I'll be sporting my first bumper sticker(Kerry) as soon as I get it. I already do most of the rest of your post. Not, necessarily, to be nice, but to keep my sanity.
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #23
36. This is how I live my Life , I am my own popular uprising
Edited on Thu May-06-04 10:47 PM by proud patriot
with my yard signs and my car's messages .
I even made a proud patriot jacket
It says "bush is a liar" on it .

Welcome underground Unperson 309 I wish
more people would start speaking out .
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
27. Same here, rogue. I'll be 51 next week.
NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER have I seen it this bad. And I have been politically aware for about 30 of those years. Just barely woke up during Vietnam. Definitely by Watergate (whose intrepid reporters inspired me to go into journalism - they don't make 'em like THAT anymore).

NEVER. And yes, I, too, have been depressed since December 2000. But I didn't have a clue how bad it would become. It's beyond my worst nightmares.
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IconoclastIlene Donating Member (554 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
3. It sank...yes it did.
and the shit stinks so bad they should clean out the diaper pail.
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corporatewhore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
4. dupe
Edited on Thu May-06-04 09:01 PM by corporatewhore
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corporatewhore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
5. what do you mean sink?
read howard zinns a peoples history of te united states
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
6. It is up to us to stand up now
this is the last chance we will have in a generation...

Get over the shock and grief, it is going to get far worst before it gets any better
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MuseRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
7. Yup
I am 50 and we have sure seen a lot in our time on this planet but this is unimaginable to me as well. Maximum disgust and sadness. We do have a lot of work to do after we take these bastards down.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
8. this is what hate does
have been watching it for three years intensely but really started noticing late 90's. this is exactly what you get when everyone is pitted against the other, when we can find wrong and judge all for whatever we dont like. what happens with no acceptance and allowing

so all you seeing evil in the smoking me and feel my children should be taken away

knock it off you are feeding this hate in your own way

i use smoking cause it is just a smaller version so clearly of the larger. interesting the way this works in life
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MisterP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. the first paragraph makes good sense,
but the rest seems to me like another post got mixed in there
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. wink
i know but that is ok
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
9. Almost 53, too
My veteran dad must rolling over... the shame.

mopaul, you are right, it is up to us if America is ever to be the best. We can do this. We must.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. My dad died last year, just after the invasion occurred.
He was a WW2 vet who found it too painful to talk about.

I'm actually glad he can't see what is happening.
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #13
29. My dad died right at the beginning of 2000. He never saw any of this.
I am glad. He used to say, with some pride, that although he was a WW2 veteran, he was never in a position to use a gun against his fellow man. I was always impressed that he felt that way - VERY enlightened. Funny enough, my father-in-law, who died a couple of years ago and saw 9/11 but not what came after it, was in a similar position as a WW2 veteran. My dad flew photo recon. My father-in-law was an Army doctor. Neither one of them dealt violence to anyone else. Kinda noble the way that worked out. I know both of them would be cringing now. Probably are. I'm glad they're removed from this. They'd be aghast and ashamed. Brings a whole new meaning to "shock and awe."
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
10. 44 here, and I know what you mean.
Even with Reagan, I still thought the US was the greatest nation in the world.

I can't believe I'm in this nightmare. Excusing violations of the Geneva Convention, hell, LETTING IT HAPPEN--where has MY country gone?

As luck has it, I finished reading "Worse Than Watergate" just today.

I hate to say this, but the US will never recover from this, because there are too many disillusioned US citizens now.
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madmax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
12. 55 here and very disillusioned.
I'm sorry for the younger generation and my grandkids. And so much more but, it hurts to even try to articulate how I feel. :cry:

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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. I see both things with the kids
the I don't care no more, why try?

From time to time the kid who is commited and wants to change things

Then I saw the one who wanted to, and after Sept 11 she has eaten every piece of shit coming down her way... SICK, a very idealistic kid became a freeper overnight
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
14. Oh, you've forgotten 9/11?
Nothing we can do can make up for what they did to us on that day.

(playing the devil's advocate)

But, we haven't forgotten 9/11. That is why the nation was united after 9/11 in going after the terrorists that attacked our nation. Somehow, we simply could not digest such an un-American thought as "pre-emptive war". We have never been able to accept that idea. Then when we have abuse and torture of the invaded country, it is simply more than our consciences can bear...
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Piperay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
16. I agree
I'm of your age and I think this is the lowest America has ever sank. :cry:
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Waverley_Hills_Hiker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
18. your 53?
Why did I think you where much younger, perhaps in yr 30s?

neat graphic in yr sigline, BTW.
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mopaul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #18
26. barbara the dog says thanks
you thought i was younger cause of my naturally wavy hair.
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tiedye Donating Member (130 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
19. 35 and not shocked
I've been reading Amnesty International's journal for some time now and these are the nice pictures. The ones with some almost "comic" relief. The 75 year old woman being harnessed and riden like a donkey is another stellar moment for our proud troops.
Look, the word is Apartheid. The project for a new american century is the most viscious self inflating supremist doctrines on the face of the Earth.
I'm sorry to offend, and it's not true of a lot of GI's, but there are plenty of racist, uneducated thugs in america and for hire that get off on lude sex and violence.
No wonder Gandhi was celebate. It makes me want to vomit.

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atreides1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
20. 45
I was wondering today at work why I spent 13 years in the US Army so that people like Rush and Hannity, along with the others whose family trees go straight up, could revel in hatred and justify dehumanizing other people.

And what makes it worse is that politicians like Inhoffe from Oklahoma go on national television and attempt to justify the torture and abuse of others, by saying we have to win.

Not like this we don't.

Perhaps the time is coming when we will once again have to fight for our freedom, but this time we need to insure that no political party
or agenda has the ability to gain control over all branches of the
government. No more life time federal judgeships, no more special retirement plans for any member of Congress, no more lobbyists making laws, public disclosure of all deals between the government and businesses, with the only exception being those that deal with national security. I have other suggestions but it would take too long to list them.
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rebellious woman Donating Member (165 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. 70 and over........ I'm in a nightmare and it never ends.
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mopaul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. i was born under truman, who were you born under?
the nightmare has to end soon
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rebellious woman Donating Member (165 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. Herbert Hoover 1930-1933
a rebellious, liberated woman way ahead of my time
by the way. And very much a "PROUD LIBERAL" and
I let everyone know it!!!!!!
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stanwyck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
21. Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin,
all the visionaries who built this country. All the people from all over the world who have come here and suffered to make this a better country. The people who faught for civil rights for all people. The people who bravely integrated the schools. The people who faught against child labor, poverty, illiteracy, and disease. How sad for these Americans that our country has become a symbol of oppression, lies, and greed. And yet we have half our country so blinded with nationalism, not patriotism, that they won't help us stop the destruction of our beautiful America. I am sad for us all.
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corporatewhore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #21
32. fuck jefferson he was an ethnic cleasner -manifest destiny
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mopaul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. & he really screwed over sally hemmings & her ancestors
but he's on the nickel, and the fiver.
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 06:15 AM
Response to Reply #33
42. Better take another look at your fivers, mopaul
Jefferson's on the two-spot. Abe's on the fiver :hi:
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mopaul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 07:05 AM
Response to Reply #42
45. thanks ark......what've i been smoking?
shows you how broke ass i am.
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 07:27 AM
Response to Reply #45
46. By the way, in response to your original question
I started to get a somewhat queasy feeling back in high school in the 70s. I couldn't quite put a finger on it at the time, it had something to do with Nixon but there was more to it. After high school, I traveled around, by bus, car, even bicycle, and found out that there were quite a few people in the country even then who gave me the willies (in all fairness, however, I did meet a lot of good people, especially in Iowa and Minnesota). The two landslide elections of Reagan against better men convinced me that things would be going downhill in a hurry. Hearing demagogues like Pigboy go unchallenged on the radio-- especially on military radio-- was just another ominous sign that things were going to pot.
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Doc_Technical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
28. The older I get, the more ironic life gets.

For example; I despised Richard Nixon but every Republican President
who followed "tricky dick", was dumber and more dishonest that
his party predecessor.
In fact, I sometimes think that we wouldn't be in as bad shape if
Nixon were President now.
If you told me, 30 years ago, that I would make this statement, I
would have called you insane.


In my 52 years, I've seen what I would have described as bad manners,
become hatred and contempt by people in this country toward their
fellow citizens.
Not only is there less acceptence of people of different races and
religions, but there is increasing hatred toward anyone who has
an opinion that differs even slightly from their own.

It is very difficult to persuade others about the dangerous path
that this country is taking, to people who choose to remain ignorant
of the past and choose a lifestyle of selfishness, hatred, greed,
xenophobia, and blind nationalism.

The next few years will be very difficult. No matter what the outcome,
I feel that I have to give this struggle all I have because I couldn't
live with myself if I did nothing.


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Veggie Meathead Donating Member (999 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #28
34. I think the old magic of America is wearing off for
three reasons:

1. The corrosive effects of racism.
2. The relentless demonization of Arabs/Muslims/Palestinians by the Israelis for the past fifty years.
3. The rise of Christian Fundamentalism which has undermined the
principle of separation of church and state.

These forces are the ones that spread hatred.Unless we appeal to the decent half of our fellow citizens to wage campaigns against those who would spread hatred and fear, I do not believe that America will be the same place we used to experience.We at DU must find ways to reach out to people different in religion, nationality and color to
overcome the poisons that have infected our society.It is only by spreading the message of goodwill toward our fellow men and women that we can recapture the America that we all love.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #28
35. Read "Worse Than Watergate" by John Dean.
I just finished it and am recommending it to EVERYONE.

Nixon was a bleeding pussycat compared to these two--and Dean is NOT SOFT on Nixon, either.
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
37. Yes...... low for both Repugs and Dems!!!!...........= 100% Pathetic!!!
All of Congress with the exception of a tolken few
need to resign ........Dems and Repugs!!!

They all are guilty with hands soaked in blood, perversion and lawlessness!!!!

And WE SHOULD NOT ALLOW THEM TO REPRESENT US, as US CITIZENS!!!!!


All of them ARE anti AMERICAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 05:55 AM
Response to Reply #37
41. 95-3?
John Negroponte? :sigh:
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Christ was Socialist Donating Member (649 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 06:19 AM
Response to Reply #37
43. Thank you i agree. I say it all the time <nt>
Edited on Fri May-07-04 06:19 AM by Christ was Socialist
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
38. I wish I had a dollar for every time I heard, read and thought that.
It's a sad sad broken record.
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Redleg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
39. America didn't sink to this level- Bush, Inc. did.
I believe the majority of Americans are as disturbed as we are by the bullshit going on in Iraq and Afghanistan. It's the very vocal majority right-wing fuckwads who don't have a problem with it.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
40. I just can't believe how bad it has gotten
I honestly wonder just what country I live in. Am I really an American or just some person who happened to be born here? Hard to know at this point.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 06:22 AM
Response to Original message
44. I feel the same way mopaul
it's been a long, slow slide.
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 07:45 AM
Response to Original message
47. More radical
I seem to get more radical and to the left the older I get. I thought most people get more conservative. I am now in the Green Party and not to keen on J. Kerry but I don't intend to vote for Nadar because America cannot survive more years of these NeoFascists. I could write a real long article about what I feel is going on now but will spare you all from that. hahaha I am real upset but the Net and a few places like this actually calms me down.
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mikeytherat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 07:49 AM
Response to Original message
48. (one from Walter Becker -- he of Steely Dan fame)
"So I'm pulling in a picture now, off of my back pages,
and all at once I am privy to the entire, grim design
of a great civilization in the terminal stages
of a slow but steady mental, moral, spiritual decline."
-- Walter Becker, "Girlfriend"

mikey_the_rat
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peacefreak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 07:50 AM
Response to Original message
49. America's karma is kicking in.
I also feel a great deal of despair. That despair is only topped by my great disgust. The world has taken stock of who we are as a nation & has found us lacking in all the moral fiber that the bush right would like to claim we have. The problem is we as a country are blind & deaf to the reality that we do not exist in a vacuum. What kindness or cruelty one does impacts on us all. It is our national arrogance that will do us in. Right now we are being held hostage as much as those people in the Iraqi prison.
The only thing I can think of doing is to be as honorable as I can be on a personal basis. It might not change the world, but maybe my small corner will be more livable.
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