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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:32 PM
Original message
Was it torture? You be the judge.
Edited on Thu May-06-04 07:53 PM by dsc
Imagine being with a group of your friends and neighbors in a room with other people. Imagine you are stripped naked, tied up or held, and paraded in front of those friends or neighbors. Imagine you are made to kneel down and simulate sex with one of those friends. Imagine as you are on display people point at your genitals and laugh at you. Imagine you have words involving gay sex written on you as they keep laughing. Imagine you are left naked overnight. Imagine having to face the people who did that to you the next day and the day after that and the day after that.

On edit To clarify imagine that to get you to simulate the sex they threaten to beat the crap out of your friend.



Is it torture? What do I know?
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
1. Imagine broomsticks being shoved up your ass in between beatings
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. I purposely left that out
due to the lack of pictures of that activity. I wanted to stick with only what has been documented beyond a doubt.
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. Actually though that is a disservice BECAUSE
most people have only seen the pictures but not read the actual reports which is why they question whether a snapshot in time is tantamount to torture. The pictures demonstrate a moment not hours and that is what takes it out of perspective for people who would question whether it rises to the level of torture legally or otherwise.

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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. If you read later posts you will see the other reason I did it this way
I know better than I would like about what I wrote. I don't know about the other stuff.
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Fair enough and it wasn't a challenge to you
The point I was simply making is it is easy if ALL one has seen is the pictures to mimimize rather than think about things like duration of time, that which was not on film etc.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. The one thing I am holding out in thinking/hoping isn't true
is the rape of the child. I really hope that isn't true.
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tiedye Donating Member (130 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. They all look like children to me
Im 35. Or, I can imagine them being my husband and friends. 60% it is estimated are innocent people, just rounded up.
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Rush and the other perverts think that would be like having a......
Edited on Thu May-06-04 07:38 PM by Hubert Flottz
PARTY! They'd like it is the impression I get! Rush might get to see how good it feels if he goes to prison over his Dope Dealing! Big Bubba will pop that Zit for Fat Bastard!(Rat Bastard)

(.)Rush on Drugs
(0)Rush in Jail
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #5
45. Yeah somehow I would think Rush would change his tune
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Mattforclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
2. It's not thoughtful
or considerate...
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Zeke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
20. No Other Way To Say It...
The pics of naked Iraqi prisoners abused by USsoldiers look just like Holocaust photos of Nazis abusing Jews!

Proof that Bush Inc is/are Nazis!
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Piperay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
3. It would be for me
and I can't think of anyone who wouldn't be devastated by something like that, some people would probably commit suicide after something like that. :cry:
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Actually the Red Cross..
Has been documenting much worse things than we have seen.. Also The Army Generals report on the abuses included the sodomizing of an Iraqi with a broomstick so I think it's safe to say it happened.
Here's the Red Cross story:
http://www.smirkingchimp.com/article.php?sid=16068&mode...
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Let's just say that I have a better idea than I would like to have
(minus the overnight and the girls) and it royally sucked.
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RapidCreek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
6. Hey let's not overlook jambing a broom handle up your ass.
A college hazing tradition which has historically warmed the cockles of every red blooded americans heart.

RC
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #6
27. Or, "better yet", ramming phosphoric acid up your butt
Imaginative, these sado-masochistic freaks are.
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
9. Imagine somebody rapes your child and forces you to watch.
Frat prank or torture?

Your analogy is critically flawed. There's nobody putting a gun to their head and making them do it.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Well you try having a gang of kids who are all bigger than you
and threatening to beat the crap out of said friend. Then tell me that only a gun is needed.
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. That will work too.
So include that in your analogy. The way you wrote it sounds like the only force behind it was peer pressure.
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Mz Pip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
11. It's a Brittany video
I know this because that's what Rush said. It must me true if Rush said it.

MzPip
:dem:
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. actually Brittany videos are torture but for a whole nother reason
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. And on THAT DSC,
we agree unequivocally :D
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #14
22. I have to admit that I fail to see what people hear in her
though I guess I can see what some males would see in her.
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Mz Pip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. LOL
True enough.

Maybe we should be forcing prisoners to watch Brittany videos. <sarcasm> :-)

MzPip
:dem:
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Cursive_Knives512 Donating Member (423 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
23. Main Entry: 1torture
1 a : anguish of body or mind : AGONY b : something that causes agony or pain
2 : the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, or wounding) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure

http://m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=to...
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caledesi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
24. Well those sick freepers are saying that it's no big thing - kind
of like "hazing"....I don't think so. These people are sick!
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betty_booop Donating Member (27 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
25. yeah...its torture
no doubt about it. its sick and depraved. what more can i say, but its not just an american problem as this site shows:
http://www.thenausea.com
i want to warn you however, this site has some extremely graphic stuff from iraq to chechnya to the isreali-palestinian conflict. if you have the stomach for it, i'd check it out, its surreal.
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babzilla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #25
41. the topic at hand is torture conducted by americans
let us stick to the subject, shall we?

Thanks for the update that torture is a universal sickness.

That fact does not lessen the horror or in any way excuse what our soldiers have done to the POWs in their charge.
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betty_booop Donating Member (27 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #41
44. hmm...
i thought it was pertinent toward a discussion on torture, americans or no americans, but sometimes i can be confused. :shrug: and yes....nothing lessens the sickness of what those guards did. you really can't call yourself a human if you find no fault in their actions
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
26. kick
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
28. kick
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MidwestMomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
29. I'd rather be on the jury...
Torture? We find the defendants guilty as charged.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. I would be a text book example of someone you wanted to challenge
I couldn't possibly be fair to the defendents here.
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MidwestMomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. Yeah, I'd be thrown out of the jury the first day too...
I'd also throw the rat bastards in jail who are trying to rationalize these actions as 'not that bad'.

As I'm sure you've noticed, the media, etc, has gone from calling it 'torture', to 'torment', to 'abuse' and now 'just humiliation'. Fuck that shit.

I'm just waiting for the 'jokes' to start on the late night shows to complete the cycle of it being 'no big deal'.

But wait...Tough Crowd on Comedy Central has already started. They've referred to certain photos as 'a gay pyramid' and 'naked twister'. Why is this show allowed to remain on the air? (I only hear these things because it follows the Daily Show and I can't find my remote.)

So anyway, as you can tell, I'm completely disgusted, frustrated and saddened by what is happening. But that is par for the course since Bush was selected.






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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. The thing is sometimes the mental stuff is worse
I honestly can't imagine how utterly humiliated those poor men are. There isn't a place on earth that they can go and not wonder who knows who they are thanks to the publication of those photos. Hell I thought the halls of school were tough and all I had to deal with was the mental image not the physical one. Frankly, for many, a viscious beating would have been less awful than this was.
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Redleg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:34 PM
Response to Original message
30. Real torture is having to listen to another one of Bush's "apologies."
Jeebus if that idiots speeches and press conferences are the worst.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. They are pretty bad.
I don't claim to be the next Abe Lincoln or something but good grief if I couldn't do better than that I would hang it up.
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thethinker Donating Member (403 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:39 PM
Response to Original message
33. Torture?
How about the fellow packed in ice? Torture or just "hazing"?

What we have heard so far is only the tip of the iceberg.

There is no such thing as limited torturing.

It is a disgrace that this country has to wonder if torture is OK. Any sane person knows that it is not OK.

The sick little argument that we were saving American soldiers lives doesn't hold water. These were ordinary citizens we were torturing. What kind of real information could they haven't given us?
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Redleg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. Actually, we did the packed in ice thing for a frat party.
Just kidding. I fear the worst has yet to be revealed.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. sad thing is now
I almost believed you.
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Matilda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
38. Emotional and mental torture is still torture.
Sometimes it may be the worst kind.
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foreigncorrespondent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 12:19 AM
Response to Original message
39. Excellent post as always, my friend.
Imagine you have words involving gay sex written on you as they keep laughing.

How come when ever the military does something totally stupid it always involves something about the LGBT community? Remember the bomb dropped on Afghanistan that had derogatory remarks towards the gay community written on it?

Don't these meatheads realize they could very well be insulting someone close to them? Someone they know, a freind, a relative, a fellow country man/woman?
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 05:12 AM
Response to Reply #39
42. thanks
love the sig picture.
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oblivious Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 12:25 AM
Response to Original message
40. I'd rather be zapped or beaten than be humiliated like that.
The pain is temporary (I hope), but the other is lasting.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 06:24 AM
Response to Reply #40
43. Very astute point
These people could live to be a hundred and not forget that night.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. kick
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