Was it torture? You be the judge.

[dsc]

Imagine being with a group of your friends and neighbors in a room with other people. Imagine you are stripped naked, tied up or held, and paraded in front of those friends or neighbors. Imagine you are made to kneel down and simulate sex with one of those friends. Imagine as you are on display people point at your genitals and laugh at you. Imagine you have words involving gay sex written on you as they keep laughing. Imagine you are left naked overnight. Imagine having to face the people who did that to you the next day and the day after that and the day after that.

On edit To clarify imagine that to get you to simulate the sex they threaten to beat the crap out of your friend.



Is it torture? What do I know?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

1. Imagine broomsticks being shoved up your ass in between beatings

[dsc]

4. I purposely left that out

due to the lack of pictures of that activity. I wanted to stick with only what has been documented beyond a doubt.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

13. Actually though that is a disservice BECAUSE

most people have only seen the pictures but not read the actual reports which is why they question whether a snapshot in time is tantamount to torture. The pictures demonstrate a moment not hours and that is what takes it out of perspective for people who would question whether it rises to the level of torture legally or otherwise.

[dsc]

15. If you read later posts you will see the other reason I did it this way

I know better than I would like about what I wrote. I don't know about the other stuff.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

16. Fair enough and it wasn't a challenge to you

The point I was simply making is it is easy if ALL one has seen is the pictures to mimimize rather than think about things like duration of time, that which was not on film etc.

[dsc]

18. The one thing I am holding out in thinking/hoping isn't true

is the rape of the child. I really hope that isn't true.

[tiedye]

21. They all look like children to me

Im 35. Or, I can imagine them being my husband and friends. 60% it is estimated are innocent people, just rounded up.

[Hubert Flottz]

5. Rush and the other perverts think that would be like having a......

PARTY! They'd like it is the impression I get! Rush might get to see how good it feels if he goes to prison over his Dope Dealing! Big Bubba will pop that Zit for Fat Bastard!(Rat Bastard)

(.)Rush on Drugs
(0)Rush in Jail

[dsc]

45. Yeah somehow I would think Rush would change his tune

[Mattforclark]

2. It's not thoughtful

or considerate...

[Zeke]

20. No Other Way To Say It...

The pics of naked Iraqi prisoners abused by USsoldiers look just like Holocaust photos of Nazis abusing Jews!

Proof that Bush Inc is/are Nazis!

[Piperay]

3. It would be for me

and I can't think of anyone who wouldn't be devastated by something like that, some people would probably commit suicide after something like that. :cry:

[walldude]

7. Actually the Red Cross..

Has been documenting much worse things than we have seen.. Also The Army Generals report on the abuses included the sodomizing of an Iraqi with a broomstick so I think it's safe to say it happened.
Here's the Red Cross story:
http://www.smirkingchimp.com/article.php?sid=16068&mode=nested&order=0

[dsc]

8. Let's just say that I have a better idea than I would like to have

(minus the overnight and the girls) and it royally sucked.

[RapidCreek]

6. Hey let's not overlook jambing a broom handle up your ass.

A college hazing tradition which has historically warmed the cockles of every red blooded americans heart.

RC

[Jacobin]

27. Or, "better yet", ramming phosphoric acid up your butt

Imaginative, these sado-masochistic freaks are.

[DrWeird]

9. Imagine somebody rapes your child and forces you to watch.

Frat prank or torture?

Your analogy is critically flawed. There's nobody putting a gun to their head and making them do it.

[dsc]

10. Well you try having a gang of kids who are all bigger than you

and threatening to beat the crap out of said friend. Then tell me that only a gun is needed.

[DrWeird]

19. That will work too.

So include that in your analogy. The way you wrote it sounds like the only force behind it was peer pressure.

[Mz Pip]

11. It's a Brittany video

I know this because that's what Rush said. It must me true if Rush said it.

MzPip
:dem:

[dsc]

12. actually Brittany videos are torture but for a whole nother reason

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

14. And on THAT DSC,

we agree unequivocally :D

[dsc]

22. I have to admit that I fail to see what people hear in her

though I guess I can see what some males would see in her.

[Mz Pip]

17. LOL

True enough.

Maybe we should be forcing prisoners to watch Brittany videos. <sarcasm> :-)

MzPip
:dem:

[Cursive_Knives512]

23. Main Entry: 1tor·ture

1 a : anguish of body or mind : AGONY b : something that causes agony or pain
2 : the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, or wounding) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure

http://m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=torture

[caledesi]

24. Well those sick freepers are saying that it's no big thing - kind

of like "hazing"....I don't think so. These people are sick!

[betty_booop]

25. yeah...its torture

no doubt about it. its sick and depraved. what more can i say, but its not just an american problem as this site shows:
http://www.thenausea.com
i want to warn you however, this site has some extremely graphic stuff from iraq to chechnya to the isreali-palestinian conflict. if you have the stomach for it, i'd check it out, its surreal.

[babzilla]

41. the topic at hand is torture conducted by americans

let us stick to the subject, shall we?

Thanks for the update that torture is a universal sickness.

That fact does not lessen the horror or in any way excuse what our soldiers have done to the POWs in their charge.

[betty_booop]

44. hmm...

i thought it was pertinent toward a discussion on torture, americans or no americans, but sometimes i can be confused.:shrug: and yes....nothing lessens the sickness of what those guards did. you really can't call yourself a human if you find no fault in their actions

[dsc]

26. kick

[dsc]

28. kick

[MidwestMomma]

29. I'd rather be on the jury...

Torture? We find the defendants guilty as charged.

[dsc]

31. I would be a text book example of someone you wanted to challenge

I couldn't possibly be fair to the defendents here.

[MidwestMomma]

35. Yeah, I'd be thrown out of the jury the first day too...

I'd also throw the rat bastards in jail who are trying to rationalize these actions as 'not that bad'.

As I'm sure you've noticed, the media, etc, has gone from calling it 'torture', to 'torment', to 'abuse' and now 'just humiliation'. Fuck that shit.

I'm just waiting for the 'jokes' to start on the late night shows to complete the cycle of it being 'no big deal'.

But wait...Tough Crowd on Comedy Central has already started. They've referred to certain photos as 'a gay pyramid' and 'naked twister'. Why is this show allowed to remain on the air? (I only hear these things because it follows the Daily Show and I can't find my remote.)

So anyway, as you can tell, I'm completely disgusted, frustrated and saddened by what is happening. But that is par for the course since Bush was selected.

[dsc]

36. The thing is sometimes the mental stuff is worse

I honestly can't imagine how utterly humiliated those poor men are. There isn't a place on earth that they can go and not wonder who knows who they are thanks to the publication of those photos. Hell I thought the halls of school were tough and all I had to deal with was the mental image not the physical one. Frankly, for many, a viscious beating would have been less awful than this was.

[Redleg]

30. Real torture is having to listen to another one of Bush's "apologies."

Jeebus if that idiots speeches and press conferences are the worst.

[dsc]

32. They are pretty bad.

I don't claim to be the next Abe Lincoln or something but good grief if I couldn't do better than that I would hang it up.

[thethinker]

33. Torture?

How about the fellow packed in ice? Torture or just "hazing"?

What we have heard so far is only the tip of the iceberg.

There is no such thing as limited torturing.

It is a disgrace that this country has to wonder if torture is OK. Any sane person knows that it is not OK.

The sick little argument that we were saving American soldiers lives doesn't hold water. These were ordinary citizens we were torturing. What kind of real information could they haven't given us?

[Redleg]

34. Actually, we did the packed in ice thing for a frat party.

Just kidding. I fear the worst has yet to be revealed.

[dsc]

37. sad thing is now

I almost believed you.

[Matilda]

38. Emotional and mental torture is still torture.

Sometimes it may be the worst kind.

[foreigncorrespondent]

39. Excellent post as always, my friend.

Imagine you have words involving gay sex written on you as they keep laughing.

How come when ever the military does something totally stupid it always involves something about the LGBT community? Remember the bomb dropped on Afghanistan that had derogatory remarks towards the gay community written on it?

Don't these meatheads realize they could very well be insulting someone close to them? Someone they know, a freind, a relative, a fellow country man/woman?

[dsc]

42. thanks

love the sig picture.

[oblivious]

40. I'd rather be zapped or beaten than be humiliated like that.

The pain is temporary (I hope), but the other is lasting.

[dsc]

43. Very astute point

These people could live to be a hundred and not forget that night.

[dsc]

46. kick