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I Dub Thee "TortureGate"..BUSH Knew in JANUARY and LIED.

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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:26 PM
Original message
I Dub Thee "TortureGate"..BUSH Knew in JANUARY and LIED.
REMEMBER, BUSH KNEW ABOUT TORTURE IN JANUARY! And lied on CNN this very morning with the King of Jordan.

COVERUP*COVERUP*COVERUP*COVERUP*COVERUP*COVERUP*COVERUP*COVERUP*

General Peter Pace, 2nd in Command in Iraq said Prez KNEW ABOUT ABUSE
Someone should get this video captured before it disappears...
"Congress Questions Pentagon" at
http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/home/main100.shtml

He only said one word... YES.... when asked if the president knew about this... !!!!!!!
Smirky said he found out about it on TV.
I think congress should impeach them all
http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_video/main500251.shtm...

Kudos to General Pace for letting us know that W. knew.

Btw. General Peter Pace isn't the 2nd in Command in Iraq, he is the Vice Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, i.e. the Nation's 2nd highest ranking military officer.

http://www.defenselink.mil/bios/pace_bio.html

http://www.dod.mil/transcripts/2004/tr20040505-1427.htm...


PACE: Well, two different parts need to be understood. One is the reporting up the chain of command, which was done immediately. On the 13th of January, the allegations by the soldier inside the unit were reported to his Army chain of command. On the 14th of January, the Criminal Investigative Division team was sent to do the investigation. The phone calls were made up the chain of command. I know I knew about it within hours of the 14th of January. And everyone was kept apprised orally of the ongoing investigation.
The major general completed the investigation. And what happens with the paperwork itself is that each commander in the chain looks at the work, reads it in detail, does his analysis of what he or she should be doing with it, makes their decisions, and then sends it up the chain.
So the fact that the paperwork did not get to Washington DC did not mean that the information did not. In fact, it did.
STORM: So youre saying that General Richard Myers was well aware of the situation and that the president was well aware of the situation as well?
PACE: Yes.


*************************************

From today's photo op with the King of Jordan...

Q Mr. President, if this problem at the prisons was first noticed late last year, why has it taken this long for actions to be taken? And what did you tell Secretary Rumsfeld yesterday?

PRESIDENT BUSH: I tell him I should have known about the pictures and the report. And as I understand it, the -- General Kimmitt declared to the press corps, in Iraq I believe it was, that there was an ongoing investigation. In other words, he made it clear. The Army said, we've discovered something, we've discovered an issue, and, therefore, we're now going to investigate it. It was a declaration to -- to the world that there was an issue, and then there is a process.

******************

Yes, Virginia, they knew about it and did nothing. Congress knew. Bush knew. The DoD knew. Everyone knew. But they LIED about it and said it wasn't true. They LIED.

Wolfowitz was there to make sure it wasn't being leaked. He finally failed. Rumsfeld was there to make sure it wasn't being leaked. He finally failed. They LIED and COVERED UP.

Iraqis detained by U.S. troops accused their captors of torture and degrading treatment, rights group Amnesty International reported on July 23, 2003, calling on the occupying forces to bring human rights violators to justice. Detainees also said troops had shot some captives, the London-based rights watchdog reported, in a study based on interviews with former prisoners of U.S. forces across Iraq. U.S. Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz (C) tours Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison on the outskirts of Baghdad July 20. The prison had held Saddam's political prisoners, and now is run by U.S. forces to hold detainees. Photo by Chris Helgren/Reuters

*******************************

Published on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 by Reuters
Amnesty: Iraqis Complain of Torture by U.S. Forces

BAGHDAD - Iraqis detained by U.S. troops have complained of torture and degrading treatment, Amnesty International said Wednesday.

There were also reports of troops shooting detainees, the London-based human rights watchdog said in a report based on interviews with former prisoners of the Americans across Iraq.

Amnesty staff heard complaints that included prolonged sleep deprivation and detainees being forced to stay in painful positions or wear hoods over their heads for long periods.

"Such treatment would amount to 'torture and inhumane treatment' prohibited by the Fourth Geneva Convention and by international human rights law," Amnesty said.

U.S. military officials were not immediately available to comment on the report.

******************

Couple this with new pics coming out of Child Sexual Abuse and you have TOAST for a Prezeldent..
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MSgt213 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
1. Good catch. General Pace will have misspoke though
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. He spoke clearly, was asked a clear followup question and said yes....
PACE: So the fact that the paperwork did not get to Washington DC did not mean that the information did not. In fact, it did.

STORM: So youre saying that General Richard Myers was well aware of the situation and that the president was well aware of the situation as well?

PACE: Yes.


They are fucked.
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ChompySnack Donating Member (612 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
2. How about: Rape-Gate!
I can hear the mantras now:

Bush-Cheney, Torture-Rape
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
3. Did he say "Mispoke" yet


or do we need to wait a few days?

By the time they put a leash around his neck he will have a memory malfunction.

Yes or No?
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Paradise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. :) lol there's something in the air, tonight lol :)
i'm sure of it!
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Paradise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
5. LOL I'm sure this is a great post, but
I can't get past "I Dub Thee "Torturegate" LOL :bounce: (and, I don't :bounce: very often)
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LittleApple81 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
6. Inhofe (repug congresscritter) said to Tweety that it is perfectly OK to
rape a 15-year-old girl because we are at war with bad people. So don't count your winnings yet.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
7. I Believe Hersch Mentioned Child Molestation
and that is beyond fucked up.
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Steven_S Donating Member (810 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
9. Yet again - Bush Knew And Did Nothing..
This should be how history will judge him. But he doesn't care. We'll all be dead anyway.

Good one, Symbolman. Torturegate.
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. I think TortureGate
calls it for what it is.. it ISN'T Prisoner "abuse".. kicking them is abuse..

what they did is TORTURE.

good quote.. amazing ain't he?
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:00 PM
Response to Original message
10. A huge kick for a huge story
:kick:
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #10
21. And another
:kick:
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FlemingsGhost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:06 PM
Response to Original message
11. Call it what it is: war crimes.
Cute names ending in "-gate" are so clich.
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legin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
12. i dunno
being hyper picky, maybe the 'gate' bit at the end detracts from it's power, maybe because it is predominatly a moral thing as opposed to a highly complicated political thing with some overtones of morality.

eg perhaps 'Holacaustgate'.
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:13 PM
Response to Original message
13. Armitage
is on Paula Zahn now and leaving a trail like a snail all over the furniture..

watch as he waffles on WHEN Bush knew about this.. THAT is the crux of all of this..

they protest too much about his NOT Knowing about it..


he did and it was made top secret and THAT is the excuse to be used for him being "out of the loop" (just like dear old dad in the contra days - his excuse then) --

PLUS, Bush signed an Executive Order that makes labelling something top secret that isn't a CRIME --

TORTURE REPORT MAY HAVE BROKEN CLASSIFICATION RULES

By classifying an explosive report on the torture of Iraqi
prisoners as "Secret," the Pentagon may have violated official
secrecy policies, which prohibit the use of classification to
conceal illegal activities.

The report, authored by Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba, found that
"between October and December 2003, at the Abu Ghraib Confinement
Facility, numerous incidents of sadistic, blatant, and wanton
criminal abuses were inflicted on several detainees."

"The allegations of abuse were substantiated by detailed witness
statements and the discovery of extremely graphic photographic
evidence," Gen. Taguba wrote.

These specific observations, and the report as a whole, were
classified "Secret / No Foreign Dissemination."

Why the secrecy?

"There's clearly nothing in there that's inherently secret, such
as intelligence sources and methods or troop movements," an astute
reporter noted at a Pentagon press briefing on May 4. "Was this
kept secret because it would be embarrassing to the world,
particularly the Arab world?"

"I do not know specifically why it was labeled Secret," replied
Gen. Peter Pace.

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said he did not know why it was
classified, either. "You'd have to ask the classifier," he said.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2004/05/dod050404.html

But the classification may have been more than simply unnecessary.
It might have been a violation of official policy, which forbids
the use of secrecy to cover up crimes:

"In no case shall information be classified in order to ...
conceal violations of law, inefficiency, or administrative error
prevent embarrassment to a person, organization, or
agency...," according to Section 1.7 of Executive Order 12958, as
amended by President Bush (EO 13292):

http://www.fas.org/sgp/bush/eoamend.html#1_7
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
14. Symbolman: I can't find the videos. I save the DoD html. n/t
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. I thought those were the CBS
links that got saved..

I'll poke around some more.. good work junkdrawer, it was YOU would discovered all this if I'm right..

sharp, good eyes here at the DU, eh?
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. LOL. Well, I caught a lot, but not this one....
but I know that DU lately has been a matter of diamonds in a pile of shit. But those diamonds are still worth the stink...
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. Better link to video...
http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_video/videos500251.sh...

Scroll to "Congress Questions Pentagon"
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rumguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
17. torturegate - ouch, that would have to hurt.....
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
18. Don't give it a nickname
It cheapens the whole issue and makes it look political gotcha.
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. It is political
these are human beings who have a right to DEMOCRACY.. at least that's what BUsh has said..

If it hurts the right wing then it's political, if it hurts the Progressives, then it's okay because they are a fringe element.

What ISN'T Political during an election?

for THEM (the right wingers) to call this Political is for them to INSULT these very people and minimize the problem that THEY caused in the first place.
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Yes it is
but political and political-gotcha are two different animals. Hearing another gate-suffix nickname in the media will kill the outrage faster than anything I can imagine. No nicknames. Call it what it is: war crimes.
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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. How about
War Crimes out of the Gate??? LOL
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Generic Other Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
25. I hope you use the photos in a flash, Symbol
Those idiots wanted to be stars, right? Wanted to see themselves plastered across the internet?

I curse them to star in one of your flash films. A good way to launch their new careers as public pariahs.
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DaveSZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Someone rip that video off the cbs site
before it's gone!
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Democat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
27. The U.S. media will never say that Bush lied, ever!
No matter what Bush does, the media will protect him. They don't want to lose those tax breaks and other perks.
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Oddman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
28. Are you sure we can prove that bush knew about this in January????
Oh God please, please, please let it be true. Then the horror of this will have a positive outcome. bush will go down as the worst, most disgraced president ever.

John Kerry will be elected and the WHOLE WORLD will start to heal . . .


Torture Accomplished


I is sorry . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .that we got caught!
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Generic Other Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. Probably the only thing they didn't know about was all the photos
that had been taken. Probably thought they could bury the story. Didn't expect someone to be proud enough of the pics to share them with the world.
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. Ron Brownstein just said it AGAIN on Lou Dobbs show.
Lou even questioned him...:You mean Rummy knew?" Brownstein...."NO the President, check with the group I work for."

I don't know who Brownstein works for, but it's sure been on CBS and Dobbs tonight. I believe them!
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cally Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
29. Don't forget that the story broke in January
on CNN. (Another DUer posted this today and I forget who.) So if the press knew, then why didn't * and Rumsfeld know

Here's a link to the story. Notice the date:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/01/20/sprj.nirq.abuse/index....
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Unknown Known Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
30. Hey, they haven't even released the worst of the photos
Hersch said there's the women and juveniles. WHO is holding onto these photos and WHY??????????????????????????????????????????
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:42 PM
Response to Original message
33. They be burning the Midnight Oil trying to spin this tar baby clean
but every time they go near it, the Pubs come away with tarpitch on the hands.

The Lies Catch up and the Lies will do you in.

We, the Public, cannot let the Bush decide Resignation for himself, we must do it for him by calling our Senators and Reps to put pressure.
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
34. They are trying to spin the fact that Bush knew
in January -- hell, they were talking about it last year in July!

THIS is what will get him, but as usual he's playing semantics, etc..

that's why the anger over RUmmy NOT telling him about it.. he knew..

they'd been admitting he knew about it in briefings on CNN for two days, then that went away and now it's the "anger" over not knowing thing..
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PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
35. I hate the "gates"; how about KLANNISH INQUISITION?
There's such a racist element to it, and that picture of the guy in the black Klan outfit with the electrodes is quite simply the most compelling picture from the whole shameful war.
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