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This is it folks...Bush is toast. He will lose big in November.

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xray s Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 06:58 PM
Original message
This is it folks...Bush is toast. He will lose big in November.
That is, unless he is forced to resign before then.

The latest reports that Bush saw the prison rape and torture report way back in January will drive a stake through the BFEE heart.

He lied about when he knew it.

He was more concerned about its release to the public than the torture itself.

In my opinion, he probably let it happen by sending a signal to get info from detainees by any means necessary. He has giddily slid down the same slippery slope that other despots have in the past. First the ends justify the means, and soon the means justify the means.

How can his religious fundie-Right base live with and support an administration that brings on the most twisted sexual humiliation and torture and treats it in a nonchalant way? And then lies about knowledge of it?

Pictures, pictures, pictures every day for the next five months will finally shock the somnolent sheeple to attention. They "get" pictures. Especially pictures of sex.

Republicans with any brains know this is radioactive. They will run away from Bush in a stampede.

The BFEE is mortally wounded. It's only a matter of time now.






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Mattforclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
1. I agree
he's plummeting as we speak.
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skooooo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
2. sex seems to be the only thing..

..that gets people's attention!
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DAGDA56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. In all the ways I imagined this regime would end...
...I could never have imagined this. I just never figured on a sex angle with this bunch.
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skooooo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #9
34. lmao....


kind of ironical, huh? sadomasochism & George Bush
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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
3. I agree he's toast but where did you get the info he saw the report?
The latest reports that Bush saw the prison rape and torture report way back in January will drive a stake through the BFEE heart.

do you have a link to back this up?
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #3
16. I'll add my vote to a request for a link...
some of us have no access to media or the web during work. If this came out during the day I'd appreciate being pointed to a source.
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xray s Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #3
19. link
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cally Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #3
20. The second in command in Iraq
(Page) was on the morning shows yesterday and said that both Rumsfeld and * had the info in early January. If someone else doesn't provide a link, I look it up in a few hours.
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cally Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. Link to Pace story
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. Here you go...
REMEMBER, BUSH KNEW ABOUT TORTURE IN JANUARY!
General Peter Pace, 2nd in Command in Iraq said Prez KNEW ABOUT ABUSE
Someone should get this video captured before it disappears...
"Congress Questions Pentagon" at
http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/home/main100.shtml

He only said one word... YES.... when asked if the president knew about this... !!!!!!!
Smirky said he found out about it on TV.
I think congress should impeach them all
http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_video/main500251.shtm...

Kudos to General Pace for letting us know that W. knew.

Btw. General Peter Pace isn't the 2nd in Command in Iraq, he is the Vice Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, i.e. the Nation's 2nd highest ranking military officer.

http://www.defenselink.mil/bios/pace_bio.html

http://www.dod.mil/transcripts/2004/tr20040505-1427.htm...


PACE: Well, two different parts need to be understood. One is the reporting up the chain of command, which was done immediately. On the 13th of January, the allegations by the soldier inside the unit were reported to his Army chain of command. On the 14th of January, the Criminal Investigative Division team was sent to do the investigation. The phone calls were made up the chain of command. I know I knew about it within hours of the 14th of January. And everyone was kept apprised orally of the ongoing investigation.
The major general completed the investigation. And what happens with the paperwork itself is that each commander in the chain looks at the work, reads it in detail, does his analysis of what he or she should be doing with it, makes their decisions, and then sends it up the chain.
So the fact that the paperwork did not get to Washington DC did not mean that the information did not. In fact, it did.
STORM: So youre saying that General Richard Myers was well aware of the situation and that the president was well aware of the situation as well?
PACE: Yes.


999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
From today's photo op with the King of Jordan...

Q Mr. President, if this problem at the prisons was first noticed late last year, why has it taken this long for actions to be taken? And what did you tell Secretary Rumsfeld yesterday?

PRESIDENT BUSH: I tell him I should have known about the pictures and the report. And as I understand it, the -- General Kimmitt declared to the press corps, in Iraq I believe it was, that there was an ongoing investigation. In other words, he made it clear. The Army said, we've discovered something, we've discovered an issue, and, therefore, we're now going to investigate it. It was a declaration to -- to the world that there was an issue, and then there is a process.
******************
Yes, Virginia, they knew about it and did nothing. Congress knew. Bush knew. The DoD knew. Everyone knew. But they LIED about it and said it wasn't true. They LIED.

Wolfowitz was there to make sure it wasn't being leaked. He finally failed. Rumsfeld was there to make sure it wasn't being leaked. He finally failed. They LIED and COVERED UP.
Iraqis detained by U.S. troops accused their captors of torture and degrading treatment, rights group Amnesty International reported on July 23, 2003, calling on the occupying forces to bring human rights violators to justice. Detainees also said troops had shot some captives, the London-based rights watchdog reported, in a study based on interviews with former prisoners of U.S. forces across Iraq. U.S. Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz (C) tours Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison on the outskirts of Baghdad July 20. The prison had held Saddam's political prisoners, and now is run by U.S. forces to hold detainees. Photo by Chris Helgren/Reuters

Published on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 by Reuters
Amnesty: Iraqis Complain of Torture by U.S. Forces

BAGHDAD - Iraqis detained by U.S. troops have complained of torture and degrading treatment, Amnesty International said Wednesday.

There were also reports of troops shooting detainees, the London-based human rights watchdog said in a report based on interviews with former prisoners of the Americans across Iraq.

Amnesty staff heard complaints that included prolonged sleep deprivation and detainees being forced to stay in painful positions or wear hoods over their heads for long periods.

"Such treatment would amount to 'torture and inhumane treatment' prohibited by the Fourth Geneva Convention and by international human rights law," Amnesty said.

U.S. military officials were not immediately available to comment on the report.
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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. Thanks symbolman --BTW SMan
did you contact FreeSpeech or LinkTV yet?
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xray s Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. That is the most encouraging thing
The BFEE is being exposed by heroes within the military who have had it up to here with the lies and inside corporate deals and secret undermining of the military and intellegence services by a rouge bunch of bastard Bush insiders, thieves and, as it now turns out, outright sexual perverts.

The revolution has started, and the true American heroes in the military are leading the way.
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cally Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #25
40. Thanks for the links
and letting me know his true rank.
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
4. If the photos Hersh mentions comes out...
Edited on Thu May-06-04 07:02 PM by DrWeird
then yes, Bush is toast.

Nobody likes child molesters. Even many republicans.

Bush will still have his base, he could rape an infant on live TV and freepers will still vote for him, but this will mobilize everybody decent.
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lovedems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
5. Tweety has a dunce on who is saying (really, I kid you not)
they just found out a couple weeks ago. I don't know who she because I just caught it in passing. The couple of times I walked by the kitchen television, Tweety appears to be in cover *'s ass mode big time.

This is bullshit.
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FarLeftRage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
6. Yes
and one can only wonder how many repuKKKes he takes down with him...
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
7. I need to see a link to a report that says that Bush saw the prison rape
torture report.

And I've said it once today. I'll say it again. We can't think we've won it until it is won.
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SlavesandBulldozers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
8. nope
Have you learned nothing? You didn't really think these people were actually Christians did you? They will defend the Dauphin to the very death of their credibility. They could give a shit about what our troops do, they just care what YOU do. They will file this under their ridiculous liberal-media war and move on like nothing happened.
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LittleApple81 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. I am afraid YOU are correct. Nobody watched Tweety's show
today? or CNN? We have no responsible media and people who don't read or want to know the truth.
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ElementaryPenguin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
10. You're right, X!! Bushler is fried!
:toast:
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hadrons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
11. don't count your electoral electoral college votes yet ....
he'll be voting ....



and this moran has lots of friends
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Oddman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #11
26. Love that photo!!!
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scrotim Donating Member (171 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
12. It's the nudity, don't you think? Only in u.s. would naked humiliation pic
trump a bogus invasion as the reason for impeachment.

BUT...hey, whatever works.
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Oddman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
13. Link to this please!
I believe that he must have known about it unless he is even more clueless than we already know he is!!


Ann Coulter Mercenary!
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Not Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #13
28. OMG, I am rolling on the floor!!!
That is precious.

So how long b4 the administration starts the Page smear campaign?
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #13
46. That's not Ann!
That woman has hips! She can't be Ann. Who are you trying to fool :)
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MasonJar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
14. We always think he will be toast, and I hope he is, but remember
these radicals are one issue fanatics (evangelicals/abortion), (corps/ their almighty dollar, etc.
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sventvkg Donating Member (448 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
17. You are not getting the fact that most people support him no matter what
They don't believe he had anything to do with this stuff and take him on his word..I saw this girl the other night, ranting and raving about how she listens to rush and savage and how the war is just because they have WMD etc etc...I mean she believed all this stuff, and 100% of it was wrong...I talk to a lot of people and many many support Bush...Many don't give a shit about politics and a few smart ones hate him...My unofficial stats have Bush WA WAY WAY out front with the American Sheeple...This is very very difficult for me to accept but I have to admit it's the cold truth so far in my research...Sickens and saddens me to no end...We could be very close to the end of our country as far as the principals we were founded on. If Bush gets in again, we will remain the United States of America, in name only I'm afraid. Many intellectual liberals I know and seriously talking about leaving if that happens...
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West Coast Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #17
42. "...Bush WA WAY WAY out front with the American Sheeple..."
Are these people who live in Alaska? Because, where I live, I don't know anyone who plans to vote for Bush. Everyone hates him.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
18. But it wasn't "specific" enough...
Just like the report before 9/11, he was unable to comprehend the seriousness of the situation.
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xray s Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #18
33. Think he'll comprehend this?

George W, YOUR FIRED!



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Memekiller Donating Member (755 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
21. Kerry is toast...
...the second we become complacent.

I won't rest until election day.
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xray s Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Not planning on resting here
Too much work to do. But for the first time, I can see that bridge, and its a beatiful bridge indeed!
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UrbScotty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
22. I wouldn't be TOO optimistic (yet), but you have a point.
Edited on Thu May-06-04 07:14 PM by ih8thegop
Yes, I think he will go down by a bigger margin than many people think.

I just don't want to get cocky yet.
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bermudat Donating Member (985 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
27. Once again with the 'This is it - Bush is going down' thread.
You guys say it over and over again, this is the story that will be his undoing. Then the following week, all is forgotten and the American sheeple give him a 50% approval rating. Stop setting yourselves up.
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jeanmarc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
29. I think this is the one
I think this is the issue that turns the tide. They ate themselves. How ironic that it wasn't any initiative by us, but it was just their general incompetence and just being there that made this happen.

It is a horrific story, it will get more horrific, and these assclowns knew about it. Even if they didn't know, the Iraq thing is over. We are not even good enough to participate along with the UN at this point.
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #29
36. It's got sex in it. Game. Set. Match.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
32. For once I agree.
This time if there is an election, he is toast. BBV has gone mainstream, so there will be no cheating there. Only a few fundies will vote for him otherwise.

Let's hope our leadership puts the pressure on for impeachment and keeps it up until election day, otherwise they could pull the martial law rabbit out of the hat and cancel the elections.
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Bonhomme Richard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:51 PM
Response to Original message
35. I've said this before. I don't think he will be on the ballot
I think the powers that are in the background will replace him to increase thier chance of staying in power.
He's going to be repalced or have a Johnson moment.
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Iceburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:06 PM
Response to Original message
37. Bush's Rape Rooms: A Chronology -- Link to Msn.com
Edited on Thu May-06-04 08:07 PM by Iceburg
HE KNEW ...

What Bush said as the Iraq prison scandal unfolded.
http://slate.msn.com/id/2100014
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ant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
38. random thoughts
It's not the crime, but the coverup. That would be my main thought right now.

I finished my semester today and my last class was tonight - Security in Southeast Asia. My prof is this really cool baby boomer. I can totally see the young anti-war activist in here. Long blonde hair, all hippied out. She always jokes about how obsessed she is with Vietnam, and even commented on how this entire war and the election is a lot of people refighting the Vietnam war. Anyway, she reminded us tonight that Hersh was the guy who broke the Mylai story in Vietnam.

And speaking of Hersh, I read a transcript today of his appearance on O'Reilly yesterday. You can find it here: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,118955,00.html

This part jumped out at me:

HERSH: First of all, it's going to get much worse. This kind of stuff was much more widespread. I can tell you just from the phone calls I've had in the last 24 hours, even more, there are other photos out there. There are many more photos even inside that unit. There are videotapes of stuff that you wouldn't want to mention on national television that was done. There was a lot of problems.

There was a special women's section. There were young boys in there. There were things done to young boys that were videotaped. It's much worse. And the Maj. Gen. Taguba was very tough about it. He said this place was riddled with violent, awful actions against prisoners.


Illegal wars, bogus legislation and policies, lies, lies, lies...these things will not affect Americans. However, sex and torture? Everyone's listening. Throw in some children and you've got a fucking firestorm.

From Blumethal's article in the Guardian: http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1210588,00....

Bush has created what is in effect a gulag. It stretches from prisons in Afghanistan to Iraq, from Guantnamo to secret CIA prisons around the world. There are perhaps 10,000 people being held in Iraq, 1,000 in Afghanistan and almost 700 in Guantnamo, but no one knows the exact numbers. The law as it applies to them is whatever the executive deems necessary. There has been nothing like this system since the fall of the Soviet Union.

Again, because this involves sex and torture and, according to Hersh, children, the media is going to run with it like crazy. Conservative/liberal biases both lose out to the bias in favor of ratings.

If the true extent of all of this is exposed it is going to be very, very bad for the administration. I realize this has been said about many other scandals, but I will repeat: a scandal involving sexual abuse, torture, and possibly children does not escape the public's attention like lies about medicare do.
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bubba_fett Donating Member (257 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
39. There's simply no excuse.
It's amazing to me to hear the pundits trying to spin this one...my jaw was hanging listening to Rush defend this. What purpose do they have defending torture and abuse? Even the president chided it.

This wasn't just torture and humiliation physically, this was specifically geared for people of a Muslim culture. Do you know how humiliating it must be for a Muslim man to be lead around, naked on a leash by a woman? Or to be forced to simulate (or perform) homosexual acts under duress?

About two months ago this story came out about a former inmate of Guantanamo bay, I took it with a grain of salt, as the Mirror kind of seems like a tabloid to me, and it seemed too obscene and sensational for the US military. But now my doubts are gone.

This wasn't just an isolated incident by a 'few bad apples'. More accounts will come forward, and there won't be any way to spin it. The pundits are already backing themselves into a corner with this one.
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OpSomBlood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
41. Assuming a legitimate election...
I don't think there's any way Bush wins in November. In fact, I think it's an overwhelming landslide.

Again, assuming the elections aren't rigged.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
43. Oh boy, the Bush is toast call again.
The difference is, if he did lie, he didn't lie under oath before a grand jury.
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
44. Cautiously, It Might Be True, But We Can't Rest
It's been going around for weeks that incumbents either win BIG or lose BIG, and even before this it seemed unlikely that it would be a squeaker OR that he would win.

Plus, today my local radio wingnut said he saw somewhere that elections are decided six months before November, and that even without this huge story it didn't look that good for Shrub.

That said, Shrub raised 1/4th of a hundred million tonight. No campaign can have complacency in it, and especially this one.
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FlandersFeelds Donating Member (44 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
45. Just like all the other burnt toast posts in the past
This too will be tossed out for the birds to peck upon until it's gone.

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xray s Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #45
47. The birds will be pecking at those pecker pictures for quite a while.
I bet even Murdock is thinking of starting a new show focusing on the sex scandals of the Bush administration secret, corporate contracted intel ops.

Great ratings.
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