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corporatewhore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:01 PM
Original message
Lynndie England seen as hero back in racist hometown
Edited on Thu May-06-04 03:04 PM by corporatewhore
Lynndie England, 21, a rail workers daughter, comes from a trailer park in Fort Ashby, West Virginia, which locals proudly call a backwoods world.

She faces a court martial, but at home she is toasted as a hero.

At the dingy Corner Club Saloon they think she has done nothing wrong.

A lot of people here think they ought to just blow up the whole of Iraq, Colleen Kesner said.

To the country boys here, if youre a different nationality, a different race, youre sub-human. Thats the way girls like Lynndie are raised.

Tormenting Iraqis, in her mind, would be no different from shooting a turkey. Every season here youre hunting something. Over there, theyre hunting Iraqis.

http://www.whiteprivilege.com/archives/2004/05 /
source link
http://dailytelegraph.news.com.au/story.jsp?sectionid=1...
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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yeeeeeee Hawwwwwwwww
Stupid is as Stupid does...
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
2. Did I call it or what?
This is the pattern also followed by the SS... when the atrocities
started

Small town,

No world knowledge

Good Ger... err American

Yes turns my stomach, but they knew exactly what they were doing when they got this guard unit in there.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #2
27. Oh and the blame
belongs with Wolfie, Rumsfled and Bush...
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
86. You are absolutely right!
Put the poor and ignorant in charge, tell them to commit atrocities, knowing that they are unlikely to question authority, and then hang them out to dry if the truth comes out.
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #2
138. The "Deliverance" theme song is running through my head
at the moment.

It's the Stupidity, Stupid.
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keithyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 02:50 AM
Response to Reply #2
149. Well, that explains her behavior...she didn't have to be ordered to do tha
She reveled in it.
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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
3. Was that her panties strapped on that prisoner's head?
How will her son or daughter explain this when it's time to go to school and classmates start asking some uncomfortable questions about what Mommy did in Iraq?
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corporatewhore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. mommy bravely saved us from them evil brown persons
they deserved it they are evil
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. They'll home school them geeks!
Praise the Lawd and pass me a copperhead!
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atreides1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
4. It Figures
What do you expect from a group of people who's family tree hasn't branched out in the last century.
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
5. Sounds about right!
Probably named after Col. Turner Ashby Virginia Confederate Cav! These mugs remain unreconstructed about like Trent Lott and his heroes in outback WV! GAWD help us!
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comsymp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #5
23. But WV was a Union State...
Even seceded from VA specifically to become one... thus, never Reconstructed to begin with~
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #23
30. Hell it's almost totally NON-UNION now!
Scabs from outta' state everywhere! Been here 53 years and it gets woprse every day since Bush was Selected! Last one out turn out the lights!
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Southpaw Bookworm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #5
51. Sigh. One bright note.
The place wasn't named after a Confederate hero. From the Mineral County Web site:

Despite the efforts of Colonel George Washington to provide protection to the area, French and Indian invasions forced many settlers to flee or seek protection within or near the forts the Virginia Regiment had built and garrisoned.

Two important forts for the early settlers of this area were the one built in Frankfort Village and the Blockhouse built in the New Creek Valley. The former of the two was eventually named Ashby's Fort after Colonel John Ashby who was attacked by Indians in 1756, but made "a most remarkable escape to the fort." Colonel Ashby was later put in command of the fort and apparently remained there through the Revolutionary War. The town eventually took its name from the man and the fort he commanded.


www.mineralcountywv.com
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #51
105. Cool thanks for the link!
I was just pulling their little chains to hear them squeal! And welcome to DU!
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BlueStateGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #5
142. Actually, It's named for Col. John Ashby who served the during the
French and Indian War. It was known as Frankfort, built on orders of George Washington. Col. Asbhy served at the Fort until the Revolutionary was started. It became Ft AShby in 1787 or 1788.
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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
6. Oh, NOW I know why I'd never go to West Virginia...
So.. Virginia is for Lovers, as the travel ads say.. what is West Virginia for?
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wuushew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. 5 electoral votes...that is what it is good for
n/t
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #10
37. It's good for Robert Byrd
:bounce:
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outinforce Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #10
60. Let's See -- Those 5 Electoral Votes in 2000
went to *.

They had always in the past gone to Democrats.

Do you reckon that some WV folks who read this little hatefest against the "geeks" and the "hicks" of WV might be less inclined to vote for our party in 2004, now that some Democrats show their true feelings about the "fucking hicks" who live in WV?
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #60
78. yeah I'll bet lots of them are reading here
And even more would have voted for Kerry if only they hadn't been so gravely insulted at DU.

I really don't think what is written here is going to be a crucial factor in West Virginia.

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outinforce Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #78
92. And Your Reason for Thinking That ....
IS your reason for thinking that there are not a lot of West Virginians who will read this thread in any way associated with any of the following (erroneous) beliefs:

1. West Virginia is so backwards that the people there don't have electricity?

2. West Virginia is so backwards that people there don't have computers?

3. West Virginia is so backwards that people there don't have internet access?

4. West Virginia is so backwards that people there can't read?

5. West Virginia is so backwards that people there don't know when they are being insulted?
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #92
97. I would say the same about any state
Anyone who votes according to what they read about their state on a message board is a moran.
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maxrandb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #60
79. If there are not enough decent people in WV
to come out and smack this hate speech down, or if they continue to support *, then I say GOOD RIDDANCE to their piddly a$$ 5 electoral votes.

If they are going to be so offended by us CORRECTLY calling this kind of attitude disgusting and perverse, then they were going to vote for * anyway.

I will not stay silent simply to "suck-up" to redneck white supremacist geeks. Some state just aren't worth bothering with. If they find it offensive that people are appalled by their tripe, then BLANK 'em
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. That is ridiculous.
You people amaze me. Just because they interview some hicks from one town, you crucify the whole state. I've ridden WVA's beautiful winding roads on a motorcyle more than once and stayed in a wonderful B&B in the middle of nowhere. Yet, I was treated courteously and had good food. I wasn't attacked and I never saw any Deliverance people.

There are stupid shits like these people in EVERY STATE IN AMERICA.
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Bjornsdotter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:59 PM
Original message
Yep....Everywhere!
Hi,

I live in a small, inbred (and they are proud of it)town in northern Illinois. It's full of stupid shits and yes, they are all related.

I once went to a "party mom" meeting for my kindergardener...the hostess bragged about "how nice it was that her and her husband were cousins because family get-togethers were so much easier". The next school year I sent my children to a private school 30 miles away.

Education is the key!

Cheers,
Kim
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Sequoia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:17 PM
Original message
West Virgina: Isn't that where "Deliverance" took place?
That was one scary movie, and the people of that state were very upset because there went their tourist dollars. Even today, many won't go there because of that movie. Count me out too. Apologies to John Denver.
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
31. Are you people as IGNORANT AS THEM?
The movie Deliverance was supposed to be Georgia. Burt Reynolds and gang worked in Atlanta. But a lot of it was filmed in Alabama.

You know what...I can guarantee you there is more crime in any liberal city than WVA, yet you people have this HUGE IGNORANCE and sound no different than the hillbillies.

Gee should I be skeeered to death to visit California? After all more murders occur there. More serial murders are from there. I saw Ted Bundy....kind of good looking. I'm skeered to go through that state!
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #31
41. You tell them flatlander BASTARDS Ripley!
At least we didn't spawn Kathreen Harris, Tom DeLay or any fucking Bush Brothers!
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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #31
45. LOL Ripley!
You nailed it.

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yankeedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #31
75. Thank you
from a New Yorker who doesn't like New Yorkers skewered as rude and violent based on a few thugs.

You're not going to find a state more beautiful than West Virginia. And as far as these people- I have heard the same ignorant sentiments here in the "cosmopolitan" city. For all we know, the reported might have made it up.
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outinforce Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #75
102. I Did A Google Search on
"Fort Ashby Colleen Kesner", expecting to find a link to some story that mentions one of the people quoted in the Telegraph's story.

Nothing but a bunch of geneological websites.

Even when I did a search on "Fort Ashby Lynndie", the story from the Telegraph did not show.

I wonder.........
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carolinayellowdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
33. Georgia, and it's a movie for God's sake
But if you want to boycott a state because of a scary movie set 500 miles away from there, go ahead. By that standard I'd boycott every state in the Union.
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outinforce Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #33
65. Geogia -- West Virginia
Georgia -- West Virginia

Zell Miller --- Robert Byrd.

Hmmmmmm..................
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Southpaw Bookworm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
34. Actually it was Georgia
The area in the mountains north of Atlanta.

SB, who did her high school American literature project on Deliverance.
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GreenArrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
47. no, "Deliverance" was in Georgia
.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
57. Clayton, Georgia
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Postman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
125. ahh..that was in Georgia, not West by God Virginia...
yew shrr gotta perty mowth....
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gpandas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #6
24. unfortunately i grew up in pa, right next to morgantown and..
have seen this mentality a lot in the past. i don't stop in wv any more.
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PfcHammer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #6
36. West Virginia is for Wrongdoers. what a refreshing view. they set humanity
back 10000 years.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #6
43. that is a terrible thing to say
I've known some fine people from West Virginia.
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Malva Zebrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #6
73. I travelled the black roads of West virginia and met many many
down to earth people. Simple, but honorable people.

It is also a beautiful state.

I was comfortable travelling around there.

It is too bad that this has happened. A woman, a young woman, is representing this state as a total non thinking, stupid sheeple.

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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #6
89. No fair dumping on West Virginia!
Every state in the country has its share of morans and ignorant racists.

West Virginia is a beautiful state and home to many wonderful people.

We can find morans in any state - even those most known for being liberal and tolerant. There are towns like this in California, New York, and Oregon.

It's not the state that is the problem.
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outinforce Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #6
95. Actually, Virginia is NOT for Lovers
at least, not homosexual lovers.

West Virginia sends two Democrats to the US Senate.

Virginia sends two Republicans to the US Senate.

The Virginia Legislature (both houses controlled by Republicans) recently voted not to recognize any form of marriage other than that between one man and one woman.

ANyone know if West Virignia has passed similar legislation recently??
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SemperEadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #6
112. consanguineous lovers, perhaps?
Edited on Thu May-06-04 04:30 PM by SemperEadem
I think the argument for 'cousin-lovers' can be made in every state in the Union--eff'd up people live all over the place.

My problem with the whole "Lynddie and her gang" issue is the pride with which these people excuse abhorrant behavior--and the fact that they don't seem to get it that the stupidity of taking a picture of you smiling while engaging in criminal activities against another human being has the potential to put this entire country at a greater risk of violence. It's like throwing gasoline on a wildfire. The overreaching pride of those who defend what she did speaks to the fact that they view anyone who doesn't look like them as subhuman.

I'd love to hear them explain themselves on judgement day.
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FlemingsGhost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
9. All WV trailer trash should be hunted down like turkeys
I don't really think that, but imagine the reaction from dem dere "country boys" if I were to announce that at the local country store.

I doubt they would see the irony there in the "backwoods world."
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RebelOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 05:43 AM
Response to Reply #9
153. I resent the term "trailer trash."
Not everyone who lives in a mobile home is a beer-swilling, foul-mouthed redneck. I
I live in a mobile home, so I do not like to be called trailer trash.
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markus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #153
160. How many appliances do you have littering your lawn?
There's people who live in trailers, and there's trailer trash.
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demnan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
11. My friend has a story to tell from that part of the country
She lives in Cumberland, Maryland, in the mountains not far from West Virginia. Once I was visiting her and I noticed a beautiful statue of Jesus that she had. It was carved of wood and the face was so beautifully devotional I asked her where she got it.

She had a friend from town whose family was from the coal mines bordering on the West Virginia line. This friend came back after serving from Vietnam, just a 20 year old kid, and brought this statue to his mother. It was carved by some unknown artist in Vietnam. His mother rejected it, saying, "Jesus isn't brown!". He was broken hearted that his ignorant racist mother rejected his gift.

He gave the statue to my friend Pat, who is a very spiritual person. He knew she would appreciate it. And it sits in her living room today. But that's how some people think from that part of the world.
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outinforce Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #11
26. Gee
A person from a State that elects two Democrats to the US Senate -- Robert Byrd and Jay Rockefeller.

Or, if the person was from Maryland, a State that elects two Democrats to the US Senate -- Barbara Mikulski and Paul Sarbanes.

Nothing but a bunch of ignorant racist hicks in those states, right?
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comsymp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #26
61. Yup, racist hicks
Edited on Thu May-06-04 03:40 PM by comsymp
Also helps explain why they've gone Dem in every Presidential election since time immemorial (with the exception of 1984)...

The ignorance expressed on this board sometimes amazes me... or the ignorance sometimes expressed... either way.

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sangh0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #61
94. Speaking of ignorance
You might want to review the history of Jim Crow, etc, and the part the Democratic Party played in it. Out in the rural areas, old habits die hard.
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comsymp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #94
140. Speaking of ignorance,
Here on this board, old habits die hard as well.

Thank you for sharing your opinion with me- being one whole generation off the farm myself on my father's side and two on my mother's(eastern NC and Low Country SC), I reeeeally appreciate your enlightening me in the ways of rural folk.

And thanks also for the suggestion that I brush up on my racial history, although I'm quite familiar with the history of racism, Democratic-, Republican-, Northern- AND Southern-style.

As worthy of true debate as I believe this whole issue is, there's no way I'm going to do my Sisyphus impression here again. The self-satisfied snob contingent here have clearly made their minds up on the subject and, as with Dittoheads, Fundies and Greenbashers, no facts are gonna sway 'em.

I will, however, reserve the right to call "bullshit" whenever the Spirit moves me.
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lebkuchen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
13. That's the Bible Belt for ya
They love their guns and coon meat!
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outinforce Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. And They Also Send
guys like Robert Byrd to the US Senate.

Yeah, that's the Bible Belt for ya.

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lebkuchen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #19
29. and guys like Chuck Yeager
Hamlin.

Ever been there? Not pretty.

And he's a red-neck, too.
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #29
52. Not as bad as Hitler or Bush though!
Or Dr Mengela!
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Loonman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
14. Fucking hicks
Edited on Thu May-06-04 03:11 PM by Loonman
Apologies to any hicks who are liberals.
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dbt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. Thank you, Loonman!
We do exist.

:freak:
dbt
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kimchi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #20
157. We hicks are everywhere!
West-by-God-Virginia is IMHO, the most beautiful state in the east. 'Course, being neighbors with her might make me a tad biased. I also went to a liberal college there, and I met zero rednecks who attended. I had never experienced such unity in my life--hicks and educated people got along splendidly, partying together and willing to help make local and college events successes.

Ignorant people live everywhere. I haven't met any inbreds, but according to locals they do exist, way, way up in the hills. I guaran-damn-tee ya that most folks know that torture is wrong. Therefore, this woman's participation cannot be explained away by her upbringing, and it is wrong to denigrate the entire state for her awful actions. She could just as well have come from Texas, Montana, or Ohio.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
15. NOW the lines are clearly drawn
doesn't matter as much whether you're for or against this war. If you are for this kind torture, you are no friend of mine.
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ET Awful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
17. Why am I getting images of Cletus the Slack-Jawed Yokel?
Brandine: CLETUS! Why'd you have to park next to my parents?
Cletus: Now Brandine, they's my parents too.

"some folk'll never lose a toe
and then again some folk'll
like Cletus the slack-jawed yokel"

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tinanator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:34 PM
Original message
thanks for reminding me of that great tune and episode
oh god that was a great one.
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outinforce Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
18. Instead of Engaging In This Hatefest Against
a 21-year-old woman who, unlike any of us here, is in a combat zone, I would refer you to this website:

http://www.federalnewsradio.com/index.php?nid=80&sid=10...

If you follow the link, note especially the comment at then end of the article --

A comment made by two friends of Ms. England's:

"Goin and Klinestiver said the family is furious with the comments of President Bush, who said he was "disgusted" by the photographs.

"He doesn't know what these guys are going through," Klinestiver said. Referring to Bush's limited National Guard service during the Vietnam War, he added, "How can you make decisions for our military unless you've served yourself?"

That is who our real anger should be foscused upon.

Not some young woman who happened to come from a rural area of West Virginia.
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corporatewhore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. this was motivated by her hatred of arabs i mean come on
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outinforce Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #22
38. I'm Sorry
You have to be correct, here, corporatewhore.

I mean, come on.

What else could possibly motivate a yound white woman who grew up in a backwoods "hick" town, where there is a "dingy" bar and a WalMart, to do such a thing?

I have never served under combat conditions in a foreign country, so I'm sure that any 21-year-old would be able to withstand any sort of pressure and any military culture that looked upon the "locals" -- especially locals that were prisoners -- as some sort of sub-human species.

But, I mean, come on

And let's all just hate her and absolve the higher-ups in this situation, shall we. And let's all suggest that she and all the folks in the town she came from are some sort of sub-human species, too.

I mean, come on.

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scrotim Donating Member (171 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #22
156. doesn't making this torture story so specific to the individual soldiers
who were directly involved, give bush the option of blaming it on them and their personal flaws and deflecting blame from the military as a whole, and from the u.s. invasion as the fundamental cause?

what do you think?
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Shakespeare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #18
46. No, our anger should be focused on BOTH of them.
On Bush for dragging us into this mess, and on the soldiers who committed these crimes. One doesn't have to know every dot and tittle of the Geneva convention to know that you don't treat another human being that way.

I'm pissed at Bush and I'm pissed and this soldier. Bush got us into this mess, but these soldiers are responsible for their own actions.

Or, to quote from Henry V:

So, if a son that is by his father sent about
merchandise do sinfully miscarry upon the sea, the
imputation of his wickedness by your rule, should be
imposed upon his father that sent him: or if a
servant, under his master's command transporting a
sum of money, be assailed by robbers and die in
many irreconciled iniquities, you may call the
business of the master the author of the servant's
damnation: but this is not so: the king is not
bound to answer the particular endings of his
soldiers, the father of his son, nor the master of
his servant; for they purpose not their death, when
they purpose their services. Besides, there is no
king, be his cause never so spotless, if it come to
the arbitrement of swords, can try it out with all
unspotted soldiers: some peradventure have on them
the guilt of premeditated and contrived murder;
some, of beguiling virgins with the broken seals of
perjury; some, making the wars their bulwark, that
have before gored the gentle bosom of peace with
pillage and robbery. Now, if these men have
defeated the law and outrun native punishment,
though they can outstrip men, they have no wings to
fly from God: war is his beadle, war is vengeance;
so that here men are punished for before-breach of
the king's laws in now the king's quarrel: where
they feared the death, they have borne life away;
and where they would be safe, they perish: then if
they die unprovided, no more is the king guilty of
their damnation than he was before guilty of those
impieties for the which they are now visited. Every
subject's duty is the king's; but every subject's
soul is his own. Therefore should every soldier in
the wars do as every sick man in his bed, wash every
mote out of his conscience.
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hippiegranny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #18
49. puh-leeeeze
while the family has every right to be furious at bush (the rot of this admin starts at the very top) they need to just shut their ignernt pie holes about their their poor dear child who obviously has no fucking soul to speak of. this is about simple human decency, not about being able to hide behind the fact that someone grew up in a rural area of the country. you can focus your anger wherever you choose, and i will continue to focus my anger toward the individuals who were caught mugging for the camera as if they were at a hatfield-mccoy picnic, as well as their c.i.c.
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
21. You guys ain't very fucking nice!
Mountaineers might not ALWAYS be free but we're reasonably priced! One more shitty word and I'll vote for fuckin' Ralph Fuckin' Nader!
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demnan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. Nader?
(Must be in-bred)
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Southpaw Bookworm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #21
39. No Hubert!
Step away from edge, man. We need WV votes for Kerry.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #21
98. LOL! Good one, Hubert!
Folks who call themselves tolerant liberals and then bash an entire state based on one news article based on one interview with the weekday afternoon drunks gathered at the town bar should rethink their positions, imo.

Maybe the more tolerant and enlightened members of that town weren't available to be interviewed because they were at work instead of in the tavern when this hard-hitting journalistic expose took place.

Or maybe the whole story is totally made-up.

In any case, Bush* isn't from West Virginia.
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
28. local news in Chicago interviewed a few pro-torture people
a few Iraqi expatriates, and some white Americans that didn't think it was a big deal.

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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
32. and Robert Byrd wins with 78% of the vote
:eyes:
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theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
35. You know what . . .fuck you people
More stereotyping goes on at this site than at a Klan rally sometimes.

Why do I want to belong to a Party with members that trash so much of my background? I've been insulted for being a Christian for months...and now comes the West Virginia bashing.

I agree with them on nothing, but Republicans wouldn't mock my background.
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. You've got that right.
Geographical stereotyping is exactly the elitist bullshit that the repukes refer to and for once I AGREE WITH THEM.
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theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #40
50. Who even looks at whiteprivilege.com?
What is that site? I'm afraid to go there at work so I don't know.

But apparently it's a strong enough source to trash an entire state...one that typically supports this Party. And that didn't in 2000, partly because of this elitist shit.

Of course, if it had, Al Gore would be President right now. But that's fine. Wouldn't want rednecks voting for us. Purity of message is far better.
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #50
58. No clue.
Don't plan on looking at something that coming from this thread would surely blame me for everything wrong with America today.

If I would only denounce my ancestors and apologize for the uneducated rural people of the south (don't worry about those types in Alaska or Montana or Ohio...cause they's NORTHERNERS AND BETTER!)...
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corporatewhore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #58
72. it is an anti racist resource site it did not blame you it blamed
the racism for the torture .i mean come on i am a texan and posting an article about racists in texas is not anti texan
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #72
77. Whatever.
I said I didn't go to the site because the tone of this thread is very anti-south.

I'm not defending the cretins in the article or that woman! I'm defending the entire state of WVA because most of the posts here are attacking the state as if a handful of people there represent the ENTIRE STATE.

Bigotry is wrong, even when liberals do it.
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corporatewhore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #77
93. the site posted an article from the daily telegraph showing racism
is still alive .If it posted an article about the texas drive by shooting of the mosque would it make it anti texan? (i am a texan and dont feel that way)
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bigbillhaywood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #93
144. Yes it would...
and if you criticize Israel you are anti-Semitic. Sorry, couldn't resist.
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onecitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 01:43 AM
Response to Reply #77
146. I'm disappointed here.........
and a little surprised at some of these responses.

Being from WV I've always kept an open mind about the insults hurled at us everyday. I even laugh at alot of the jokes made about us. I try to tell others to lighten up and get a sense of humor about ourselves. I don't mind being called a hillbilly. I'm proud of my heritage. Some of the best people I have ever known are homegrown. I'm gonna have to stop here. I need to think about this. I will say I know that all people here at DU are not as rude as some posting in this thread.

Also, I am as appalled as anyone who saw those pictures. And I am heartsick this woman hails from my state. But please everyone, we are not ALL anything like this woman. She should be severely punished as should her Supervisors at the top.
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corporatewhore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #50
59. wtf it the story came from the Telegraph
Edited on Thu May-06-04 03:38 PM by corporatewhore
the other site is an anti racism resource site
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tinanator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #50
63. get over it and pay a visit
looks like a great site. they werent trashing the entire state just doing a bit of background on the hillbilly with a BIG future in dominatrixin, yuppers. what is the phobia name for fear of links?
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Southpaw Bookworm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #40
54. What Ripley said! n/t
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maxrandb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #40
96. Oh you mean like
Repukes using "taxechussetts liberal french cheese eating surrender monkeys"?, or maybe "welfare queens in their Cadilacs"?, or maybe, "liberal brandy snifter elitist", or "NEA is the largest terrorist organization in the country", or on and on and on....

No, the point of all these posts is that "this" particular attitude, this "if you are from another country, or different skin color then you are subhuman", this "most time were hunting turkeys, now their just hunting Iraqi's", this "that's the way girls like her are raised". We are not painting an entire state with a broad brush, but until the "Nice" people of WV come out full force against this type of attitude, until a majority of WV's come out and smack down these neanderthals for the obvious idiots that they are, then we can talk about giving a rats-a$$ about their 5 electoral votes.

Matter of fact, if they want to regain respect for their state, they will overwhelmingly dump * in November.
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sangh0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #40
99. Yeah, right!! Like the Repukes never talk about Northeast Liberals
.
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outinforce Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #35
44. Here's One Democrat
that will NEVER bash you for being from West Virginia.

And it is my guess that most Democrats feel much the same way.

West Virginia is a beautiful state -- a state that sends Robert Byrd to the Senate -- with lots and lots of beautiful folks (both on the outside and on the inside, too) living there.
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Pithlet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #35
48. Oh no
They just make policy that erodes everyone's freedoms, dissolves the middle class, and fucks the poor more and more every day. But, at least they don't mock them. </sarcasm>
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theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #48
55. So I should accept the condescending attitude?
This is why we are becoming a minority party all over the country. And it's going to cost us black voters someday too.
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FlemingsGhost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #55
64. Link?
"This is why we are becoming a minority party all over the country."

I believe there are more registered Democrats than Republicans. I could be wrong, but the burden of proof is on you.

Thanks.
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theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #64
69. Have you not paid attention since 1994?
We used to:

1. Control the White House.
2. Control the Senate.
3. Control the House.
4. Control a majority of governorships.
5. Control a majority of state legislators.

None of that is true anymore.
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FlemingsGhost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #69
85. How many registered Democrats are there? Republicans?
"Minority party" are the words you typed.

How the GOP got "control" of the federal and state governments is an entirely different thread...
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Pithlet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #55
68. No,
but neither do you have to blanket the whole movement on the left. We're not all elitist yankees, you know.

I don't know about you, but every time I see someone making bigoted remarks, I don't just throw up my hand in the air and say "Guess I should join the other party that wants to fuck us over!", even in jest. It just seems like an overreaction to me.
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maxrandb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #55
106. What condescending attitude?
To come out and say that "this type of racism has no place in our society" is somehow looking down my nose at someone, I just don't see it.

Like my previous post. I would much prefer the good people of WV to come out in force to show the rest of the world how they do not support this type of attitude. I think the best way for them to do that is at the voting booth in November.

I'm from Ohio, and let me assure you that if folks from my state were quoted in the paper calling folks of a different color "sub-human" and I did not dis-own them, well....then it would be like the terrorist had won.
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corporatewhore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #35
56. so pointing out racism is still alive and there are racists in the army
is stereotyping check out thelink from the telegraph. Why do people refuse to acknowledge there is dangerous amounts of Arab/muslim hate. hell i come from texas. there was a drive by shooting of a mosque in TX.would posting the article be anti texas stereotyping and i believe you crossed a line when you compare this site to the klan.That takes way from the seriousness of racism and hate crimes
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theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #56
67. Have you read this thread?
It's not about "racism." It's about bashing West Virginians as brain-dead hicks.
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Pithlet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #67
83. What it's really about
are the hicks that think what that woman did was heroic.

Granted, there were some blanket statements made in this thread, and that was wrong.
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maxrandb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #67
123. I think you are mistaken
There may be a couple a folks here that are having fun at WV expense. But the overwhelming majority of the post are specifically slamming this backwoods, white supremacist attitude. Every state has it's idiots. Unfortunately, the folks that were quoted happen to be from WV.

And you are delusional if you think things are not different in some places in the south. I was stationed with the Navy in Pascagoula, MS in 1998 and at that time, there were dozens of places, bars, areas of towns up and down the coast where we were told "if you are black, asian, etc...DO NOT GO THERE. That was in 1998 for christs sake. We even had a barber shop in town that was "off-limits" because the refused to cut black folks hair.

Now I ask you. Even if it is a few "bad apples", doesn't the fact that this kind of stuff is allowed to happen, reflect even a little bit on the community at large?
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Shakespeare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #35
62. Bullshit...if you're from Marin, CA they sure will...
Remember how they mocked John Walker's background?

I don't agree with the stereotyping (I'm southern), either, but BOTH sides definitely do it.

This woman should be condemned for what she did, and her hometown--whether it's podunk WV or the freakin' east village--should be ashamed for the ignorant comments coming out in support of her actions.
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #35
70. Hey Boss I knew it was coming!
I've heard all their STUPID jokes for 53 years! Too bad the chick's boyfriend was a PA. Woman beater a lot better class of people up north! Yeah RIGHT!
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maxrandb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #70
132. Jokes like
"the abortionist, the homosexuals, the sodomites..I point my finger at them and say, YOU caused this to happen!" - Jerry Falwell in response to 9/11

Nice to see how he was all warm and fuzzy and didn't use stereotypes, etc.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #35
103. Yes they would!
Republicans say terrible things about California and NYC, to name a few. There are whole websites dedicated to San Francisco being the modern-day Soddom (or is that Gommorah?)

Point is, it's easy to slip into stereotyping and intolerance. We're all human. Point out the errors when they pop up like I have all over this thread, but don't blame all Democrats. You're just making the same mistake.

In other words, all members of DU are not intolerant just because a few posters made thoughtless remarks.
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submerged99 Donating Member (299 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #35
133. They might not mock you, but the definitely mock me
I'm neither white nor a christian so republicans make light of people like me. People like this lady, and her apologists, are the type of people who made it possible to kill my ancestors on this land. I dont have any sympathy for the hate she has earned. Whenever I mention atrocities like the Sand Creek Massacre, someone always tries to minimize it by saying people are somehow not responsible for what took place. If this lady is meant to feel only a small part of the humiliation that she has inflicted on others..then it would be fitting.
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Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
42. And these people are probably 100% Bush supporters...
and oddly enough Dean thought he could "get through to them".
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MisterP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #42
80. Mineral Co. has been red for quite a long time;
as has most of W.Va.'s "handle."
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Killarney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
53. Wow. Just wow.
:(
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Mattforclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
66. DON'T KNOCK WEST VIRGINIA
That state should by all rights be blue. People from other Blue states Insulting people from West Virginia is why is a large part of why it is red.
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outinforce Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #66
76. Didn't West Virginia in 1960
Wasn't it the West Virginia primary in 1960 that ensured John Kennedy's nomination as the Democratic Presidential nominee?

Couldn't have been?

"Hicks" from a backwater state with dingy bars would never have supported JFK.
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AspenRose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
71. I survived one year of living in West Virginia
Edited on Thu May-06-04 03:47 PM by DesertedRose
in a town where the KKK was recruiting on campus (West Virginia Wesleyan College). When the college put a stop to it, some guys in a beat-up pick up (and yes the stars and bars was proudly hoisted on the back) would drive around the parameters, harrassing students of color as they walked off campus.

It was commonplace to see the stars and bars hanging in store shop windows.

The minute we crossed the state heading home line I broke into song. One of the worst years of my life.

Having said that, it is a pretty state and not EVERYONE I met was ignorant. But as a woman of color married to an anglo, I can assure you that I kept a VERY low profile while I was there. I was honestly scared to death living there.
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theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #71
74. Buchanan, WV is rough
There is a large Klan presence there. But the same is true of parts of Ohio, Indiana and Michigan. If you lived in the Eastern Panhandle, the Northern Panhandle, Morgantown, Charleston or Huntington, there would be no such presence.
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Southpaw Bookworm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #74
87. Buchanan or Buckhannon?
Please get it straight, at least.
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #71
100. Don't let the door hit you in the Brain!
If you would have met me you would have liked it here! I'm a beautiful Man! I'm reconstructed! Seriously you picked a snake handler type school what did you expect! I'm this close----to pulling the Nader lever! (Washing Mouth With Soap)

I'd have took you fishin' and been nice to ya! The thing that does make WV nice, is the fact that, even after you bad mouthed me I'd still be nice to ya! There are, contrary to popular Bullshit, some GREAT people here! Further, I'm just as pissed at that S??T as anyone else! It's idiots like her that give this pretty place a bad name!

Now, boys and girls let's all take a deep breath and a chill pill! OK Better now??? Let's direct ALL that whoopass where it really belongs, because if that idiot in the WH hadn't lied and cheated we would not be having this little flame war! I still love you DUers!
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AspenRose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #100
114. Gee, I could have sworn I said in my post that
Edited on Thu May-06-04 04:27 PM by DesertedRose
not EVERYONE I met was ignorant. I'm sure you're quite nice...you're here, aren't you?

I'm only relaying MY experience. MINE. Unique to me. No need to take pot shots at me for something I experienced (Door in brain comment). What happened happened, and that element DOES exist in West Virginia. Period. Not everyone subscribes to it and no one said you were personally responsible for it.

Perhaps you should take your own advice, take a deep breath and chill! No one's singling you out.

And it's B-U-C-K-H-A-N-N-O-N (Upshur County) to the rest of you...
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Neecy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
81. ignorance is ignorance
It doesn't matter where this person is from, what matters is that ignorance breeds exactly the kind of hatred that would lead someone to compare hunting wild turkeys to "hunting" human beings.

I would guess that you could make inquiries in any state and find someone this poorly educated and hateful. If anything, the quote in the article tells us more about the poor state of education in this country than it tells us anything about WV as a whole.
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JohnOneillsMemory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #81
91. Yup. Here's the rant against general ignorance I posted about our troops.
I've lost respect for the PUBLIC that let them get sent into fucking war.


As in, we get the leaders we deserve. Most of me wants to say 'Forgive them, they know not what they do.'

I'll be the first one to describe in detail how we are all lied to from birth about what 'our' gov't REALLY does.

People join the military willingly because they don't know what a fucking fascist slaughter machine it is, not Superman Jesus as advertised.

But I'm fucking disgusted with the public that doesn't push a button at home and read what is really going on the way we here at this website already have. JUST PUSH THE FUCKING BUTTON ON YOUR COMPUTER AND LOOK AT THE SCORE, ALRIGHT? QUIT PLAYING SOLITAIRE AND VIDEO GAMES!

We at democraticunderground.com have taken the initiative to be SELF-EDUCATED so we don't buy into the murderous bullshit being sold to the know-nothings who are CONTENT TO WATCH FUCKING SPORTS AND SITCOMS WHILE PEOPLE DIE.

Our troops are like abandoned children who've ended up in prison because their parents didn't have the interest in protecting them. Americans have become negligent Nazis and fascist enablers, just like FUCKING COLIN POWELL.

As Utah Phillips once said, I don't have rant control anymore...


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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
82. I knew there were people who thought that...
.... but "hearing" them say it makes me nauseous. May god have mercy on this country.
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Amaya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
84. Holy Fucking Shit!
Nice trailer trash town :puke:
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Oddman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
88. Shows you what the bush supporters really stand for.
Shameful . .


Im sorry . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .that we got caught!


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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #88
119. LMFAO!
Oh My Gawd! I can't stop laughing! I love this Friggin' place!
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MoonRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
90. Guess they'll be a little upset when * offers her up
as the Torturegate sacrificial lamb. Let's face it, she's scum, but those giving her the orders are even worse, all the way up the chain of command to, yes, our sorry arse CIC. The crucifixion of Lynndie England won't help * win points among his freeper fascist base, but it will give Rummy and *'s rich militia contractors cover.
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Classical_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
101. There are people like that all over
Edited on Thu May-06-04 04:07 PM by Classical_Liberal
I think we are more likely to get the votes of "trailer trash" than say Newt Gingrich and Tom Delay. In fact I am white trailer trash, and I don't approve of this behavior in anyway. This stuff divides the left.
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
104. This is a mentality that I fail to understand
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
107. Bullshit !
Who was behind the camera taking pictures? Who were the other GIs involved in the torture and abuse of prisoners throughout Iraq? Perhaps some even worse than Ms England? Maybe some of htem might even be from some of you yokels hometowns? What in the hell would that make you ? Since you might be from the same homestate or hometown as others whose names may yet come forward? Unadulterated bullshit!
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Pithlet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #107
111. Those quotes
in the original post are racist. They are disgusting. If that is how the majority of people in that town feel, then yes, it is a racist town. I don't care where on the map that town is located. I'm well aware there are towns like that up north.

I'm sorry, but I just don't understand the knee jerk reactions in this thread. We're talking about people holding up a torturer as a hero. A lot of us are absolutely disgusted by that. Yes, there are some blanket, bigoted statements in this thread, and they need to be called on it. But people have a right to be outraged by this.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #111
126. "If that is how the majority of people in that town feel.."
But we don't know htat the "majority" feel that way, do we? And that is why the blanket statements that lump them all into one is simply not right.
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Pithlet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #126
135. That's why I said "if"
Edited on Thu May-06-04 06:25 PM by Pithlet
What that woman did is wrong, and the people that support her are wrong. And those racist towns do exist. I'm sure not everyone in them is racist, and I feel sorry for the ones who live in them that aren't. But decrying that attitude, and the townspeople that support it is in no way labeling everyone in the south. Like I said, those that have done so are being ignorant and bigoted.
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Classical_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:17 PM
Response to Original message
108. You realize the daily telegraph was Britain's prowar neocon rag
Edited on Thu May-06-04 04:17 PM by Classical_Liberal
owned in part by Richard Perle. They are just trying to scapegoat poor rural whites for this racist war.
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outinforce Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #108
116. This Is Odd
The story from the Telegraph mentions the "Corner Club Saloon" in Fort Ashby, WV.

I just did a search on www.switchboard.com for a business called "Corner Club Saloon" in FOrt Ashby, WV.

Here's the result I got back:

"Sorry, we were unable to find a match for your search."

Isn't that strange??
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Classical_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #116
117. Given all the lies the Telegraph and its sister publications have told
to get us into the war I am not surprised at all.
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outinforce Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #117
121. Is It Possible The Telegraph Made This Whole Story Up???!!!!
Something struck me as being just a bit too odd about the story in the Telegraph.

Is it possible, given the results of two different searches I di, that the Telegraph just made this whole story up??
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Classical_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #121
124. Called the operator and found a "Fort Ashby Corner Club"
Called the number and it is a bar. So the reporter jazzed up the name to the "Corner Club Saloon"
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outinforce Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #124
128. I Guess I was Just Too Damned
Cheap to pay what Verizon charges me for an information call.

Thanks for checking, though.
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Classical_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #128
130. I still find the story suspect for a number or reasons
These really do look like Delverance characters. Presuming they were real they were a bunch of bar-room blowhards who didn't even know the women. The story is anecdotal. By the way Fort Ashby isn't backwoods West Virginia. It is a suburb of Washington DC in the Potomac Hilands. It is a military base basically.
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Southpaw Bookworm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 07:50 AM
Response to Reply #116
155. Probably so small it doesn't merit a phone
n/t
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:17 PM
Response to Original message
109. Open letter to junior
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #109
110. cont.
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IronLionZion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
113. Yes lets all flame West Virginia because of a few racists
How many of you know that Brooklyn, NY has a sizable Nazi population? not many I assume. Racism has nothing to do with being in a rural area like West Virginia.

Isn't ignorance great!

Let's all act like ignorant bigoted freepers! YAY!!!


/sarcasm

Hey I'm from PA, flame me while you're at it.

(this is not aimed at corporatewhore, but to the flaming assholes)
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bleedingedge Donating Member (143 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
115. This doesn't surprise me even a little...
About 15 years ago, I was traveling back home (Columbus, OH) after spring break with some friends. It was late, so we stopped at a McDonald's in WV for something to eat. Absolute middle of fricking nowhere.

Anyway, I was in line in front of my friend Dom, waiting to order, when Dom whispers to me "Dude, we gotta get the fuck out of here, right fucking now".

I protested momentarily, eventually turning around to see, standing behind Dom,...I shit you not...

A large, dirty man wearing a T-Shirt that said "The original boyz 'n the hood". The "cartoon" below the caption showed a crowd of people in KKK garb, staring at a flaming cross and, in the background, was a body hanging from a tree.

Here's the scary part: at his waist, clipped onto his belt, was a police badge. I'm white and that scared the Mejebus out of me.

Hightailed my ass out of there instantaneously and have never stopped anywhere in WV for anything since. I hold my pee until I get 20 miles into OH or VA, though I doubt 20 miles makes much difference.

PS Oddly enough, I think of West Virginians now as sub-human. I wish we'd just wipe all of them out.
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IronLionZion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #115
120. many more hate groups in Ohio than in WV
I've seen Klansmen in Cincinnati, Columbus, and Cleveland.

I'm not from WV, but if you want to "wipe all of them out" then wipe yourself out first.
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bleedingedge Donating Member (143 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 07:29 AM
Response to Reply #120
154. Learn to spot sarcasm, dude
My PS was meant as an irrational reflection of the irrational sentiment expressed re: arabs/muslims/Iraqis in the original article.

Aside from that, I don't understand your suggestion that I "wipe out first." How can I wipe out the West Virginians if I myself am already wiped out? I'm confused. Generally speaking, a pro-active campaign of "wiping out" necessitates some sort of personal existential "beingness", so if I'm wiped out, how would that work? Please elucidate.


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IronLionZion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #154
159. sarcasm is followed by /sarcasm
or a smiley or something. :P

As for wiping out the West Virginians, worry about that AFTER you wipe yourself out.

/sarcasm

Welcome to DU bleedingedge :hi:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #115
122. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
IronLionZion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
118. map of hate groups in America
http://www.tolerance.org/maps/hate /

There are more hate groups on just Long Island, NY than in all of West Virginia.
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Adenoid_Hynkel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
127. you're a bunch of elitist fuckers
you've never been here. you know nothing about WV, other than stereotypes you see on tv. I haven't heard anyone praising the torture here. Some out-of-state reporter comes in and cherry-picks the most backwoods people they can find and you buy into the stereotype that everyone thinks that way here.

At the very least, take the time to educate yourself at a remedial levelabout the state before you bash it with ridiculaous generalizations.

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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #127
129. Read above
those in charge took kids from a very small town and placed them in position of power

It could be any town in the US... nothing in particular to WV...

They knew what they were doing... and those responsible, both the troops and those above them, should face the music... ALL of them...and the buck stops at the White House.
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Classical_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #129
131. I don't have a problem with that, but it really galls me coming
from the neocon propaganda paper "The Daily Telegraph" They did more to kill innocent Iraqies then this West Virginia women will ever dream of doing.
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Kukesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #127
139. Bravo!
My husband was born in Elkins,WV. He was named after Jennings Randolph because his dad when to school with Jennings. His family came here from England in 1725.

He is the most decent man I know and is repulsed by the torture that occured.

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libhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #127
172. Be a little more thick skinned
I`m from Texas, we take a lot more bashing than any other southern state, mainly because the B.F.E.E. supposedly has their home here - but it doesn`t bother me, I realize that you have liberals and morons in any state. Try to educate them rather than lashing out. As has been said, you can`t judge a book from it`s cover, nor should you judge an entire state based on stupid stereotypes. (Save the lashing out for anus cavity Repukes).
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Waverley_Hills_Hiker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
134. woah, straight talk from :"the folks"....
...sounds about right, actually....
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AussieInCA Donating Member (510 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
136. why is anyone suprised when the RW talking points are trivializing this
and coming out with rediculous statements like "we have to win" to justify child rape. (Repuke Senator on Hardball tonight)
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CrownPrinceBandar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
137. You fuckers really take the cake...........
At a time when a predominantly Dem state really needs your support to avoid a repeat of 2000, a bunch of you folks decide to turn your back and fall upon old stereotypes and classist humor. You call yourselves liberals. All I see are a bunch of assholes.
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BlueStateGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
141. Unlike most of you, I can speak with some authority on Mineral County
and I am sorry, but this is bullshit.

My grandfather lives in Mineral county. Ridgely to be exact. Most of my family lives right across the Potomac River, in Cumberland.

And they are neither stupid hill billies or ignorant ass freepers.

What they are is hardworking, proud people. Some of my family are a little conservative for my taste, but they are not hateful.

You people are so full of shit. Judgmental and self righteous comes to mind as well.

If you replaced Mineral County with inner city you all would come across like a bunch of close minded bigoted freepers.



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markus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #141
161. Are you suggesting these views are not unique?
Fine.

Are you suggesting that people of "another nationality" should be hunted down like turkeys?

Not fine.

Hell, I'm from Louisiana and we've pretty much been in a century long battle with West Virgina and Mississippi for bottom of the barrel to most people's minds. So I understand your reflexive defense of your home.

But if you're suggesting these comments are acceptable, you're as far outside the pale as they are.

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Pithlet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #161
165. Most of my family is from the south.
West Va, Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi.

I don't understand this reaction, frankly. I'm outraged at what those people said in that article. Some of the comments in this thread have been bigoted, but overall, I am FAR more outraged by those who would defend what happened to those prisoners.
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BlueStateGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #165
169. What reaction? Mine or the reaction of those quoted in the article?
Because my reaction to the torture of the Iraqis is one of great sadness, anger , and revulsion. My reaction to the article quoted here, was simply to say that I know a different Mineral County than the one portrayed.

I don't know how that equals a defense of Lynndie England, these ignorant comments or the behavior of those responsible for this.
I hope you weren't implying that it does.
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Pithlet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #169
170. I didn't reply to your post.
Edited on Fri May-07-04 01:31 PM by Pithlet
I was talking about this thread in general.

Edit: I'm sorry for the confusion. I realize I was posting to a response to your post.
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BlueStateGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #170
171. No worries. I am having, as teh above poster mentioned..
a reflexive defense of my hometown. I haven't lived there in years, but I go back once a month or so to visit my grandfather.

I am just so disgusted by all of this. I am shamed for my hometown, and my country. I feel sick about what has happened to these prisoners. Actually sick.

Sorry for any misunderstanding.
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BlueStateGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #141
168. Are you for real? Seriously? How did you manage to extrapolate
that I agree with, endorse or have the mind to defend any of those comments?


How does my statement of having family from the area and knowing that they, and most of the people I know ,are pretty decent folks equal support for the comments quoted in the article?

Honestly, where do you get off even suggesting that?

For the record, no I don't agree with what was said. I don't support it and I don't condone it. I am angry, I am shamed and I am saddened by those comments. Sorry I didn't make that clear enough for you in my original post.
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bigbillhaywood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 12:35 AM
Response to Original message
143. Difference between rednecks and hillbillies
Rednecks suck. Hillbillies are cool. I'm not saying there aren't racist hillbillies, but appalachian white folks don't have the brutal history of racism that the flatland rednecks have. They also have led some of the most important union struggles this country has ever known. A lot of them were more "left" or "revolutionary" or "socialist" than most of the self-proclaimed lefties on this board. I'm sure there are a lot of racists in her town, but find me a place where they're not! If this girl had been from East Boston or South Philly, you could find a lot of her neighbors defending her and complaining about those "damn Arabs". It wouldn't make a damn bit of difference.
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LibertyorDeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 12:49 AM
Response to Original message
145. Are they Retarded ? I mean to say can they think beyond

their idiocy. Do they have any realization of how retarded they sound or are they so imbecilic that this would be to introspective a task.

No offense intended to any of the fine people of West Virginia I'm sure you are numerous, but these folks sound completely Loco.
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 02:13 AM
Response to Original message
147. Very poorly written piece
I'm skeptical of declaring a whole town to be racist unless there is good data to back it up. This article doesn't provide that. Instead, it is a thinly disguised piece meant to bash people who don't live in the "sophisticated" urban centers of the Northeast and the West Coast.
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libhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 04:15 AM
Response to Reply #147
151. West Coast?
Edited on Fri May-07-04 04:16 AM by tx.lib
Oh, yeah - those wonderfull folks who gave us Ahnald and Ronnie Ray Gun - I`m impressed!
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 02:13 AM
Response to Original message
148. Very poorly written piece
I'm skeptical of declaring a whole town to be racist unless there is good data to back it up. This article doesn't provide that. Instead, it is a thinly disguised piece meant to bash people who don't live in the "sophisticated" urban centers of the Northeast and the West Coast.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 03:01 AM
Response to Original message
150. You can make any place look 'ignorant'
--depending on the people you choose to profile.
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Piperay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 04:18 AM
Response to Original message
152. Kesner has
shit fer brains, wonder how she would feel if morons were the ones being hunted...she'd be at the top of the most wanted list. :mad:
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SheepyMcSheepster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 08:59 AM
Response to Original message
158. chill out folks, WV is just designated by lines on a map.
Edited on Fri May-07-04 09:01 AM by SheepyMcSheepster
the bottom line is all over the world there are lots of people with these kinds of attitudes towards people unlike them. that is all there is to it. saying they live here or there is beside the point. they are everywhere. you have a problem with ignorant racist, not WV.

I live in the south and i grew up with plenty of stereo types about the north.

eveyone needs to chill with the generalisations and name calling. it doesn't result in anything good.

for the most part when i see people bashing the south i assume that they realise that most people who live here/there are not like the ones they have a problem with. I understand why people would have these misconceptions, they grow up with them. they are told this is how it is. much the same way i was led to believe that most yankees are rude, fast talking, carpet bagger opportunist.

i have heard yankees spout nonsense like "if it wasn't for us the south would be nothing".

my favorite is when someone from up north complains that we don't have product so and so or they expect a service to be rendered in the same amount of time as they are used to up north. "we could get that wine in New York" well, move back.

my favorite yankee stereo type is the black socked sandle wearing dad's hanging out on north carolina beaches.

lighten up folks we are ALL hypocrites and we get no where hurling insults at each other.

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theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #158
164. Actually, we aren't "lines on a map"
Have you ever looked at the state on a map? We're a geographic anomaly. The fact that anyone prior to the invention of automobile could get to this place is a minor miracle.

We're geographically isolated, which makes us a little wary of outsiders. And we're the only state to tell another state to fuck off. And the Confederacy quickly learned to not even bother trying to take us back; we weren't interested.

What I'm saying is that West Virginians see themselves as "West Virginians," a unique subset of Americans. We are different.

We don't like being judged, which is what initially pissed me off about this thread. If this chick was from California and some reporter found three assholes from that state to support her, the name of the state would have never been mentioned. And not one person here would have said, "That's why I never go to California . . . " But because she's from WV and they are from WV, the culture of the state itself is called into question. And that's horseshit.
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SheepyMcSheepster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #164
167. well, i can agree
Edited on Fri May-07-04 12:54 PM by SheepyMcSheepster
but my point is that any attempt identify people's attitudes or beliefes based on their geographic location is contrived as there is no magic boudary that makes WV different from anywhere else. i am just saying it is silly to argue that people have certain beliefs in certain areas becaues the areas defined have no real meaning other than someone decided that they should be a certain shape that contains their "territory". These are completely abstract and meaningless boundaries. imo of course! :)
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noonwitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 09:33 AM
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162. This attitude is not just confined to W.VA or the south
My grandpa feels similarly. A good number of (white) people in Michigan do, too-I work in social services, where most people are liberals, but there are plenty of people who are in the mid-west and other places that think it's okay for the soldiers to treat POWs this way. You know, the same people who use 9-11 to justify all kinds of things.
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theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
163. Having calmed down, I'm now simply questioning this article
I'm an Ivy League grad and don't live in West Virginia anymore. But I'm going to be home this weekend. And I'm going to be drunk on cheap beer at my buddy's bar.

And if some nosy British reporter came to town to "collect a soundbite" from the locals about this broad, I'd probably blow smoke up his ass. Mainly because I know what happens every time a "big-time" journalist comes to West Virginia. It becomes a Ripley's Believe It or Not exhibit. So play up the stereotype. It's what he wants, it's not going to do any damage to our reputation since it is what is expected, and we can laugh about the idiot reporter who believed us for years.

They did the same thing to Jessica Lynch (from lovely Wirt County). She grew up overlooking a tobacco field (except she didn't), she didn't see a mall until she was 18 (which I doubt), her family is poor country folk (I saw their house; these are dirt farmers), blah, blah, blah.

I grew up in a relatively urban part of the state, and it still gets tiresome.
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bigbillhaywood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 11:01 AM
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166. This Yankee says: WEST VIRGINIA IS COOL!!!!
No slavery

Union state during the Civil War

Some of the greatest union struggles America has ever seen were in WV and elsewhere in coal-mine country

It's got its problems and its share of racists, sure, but who doesn't?

West Virginia's okay in my book. Also very pretty.
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