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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 06:44 AM
Original message
Our guy is losing to a war criminal
I woke up to more horrible pictures from the war we shouldn't be in.

I read Sy Hersch's story about the "tip of the iceberg" with the torture photos, and that we'll soon be treated to the videos of our troops doing young boys.

I see that Bush sheepishly asked for $25b because he's afraid to be honest about what he wants before the election.

I think about the fact they've known about this since NOVEMBER, and I think of all the times Rummy, Bush and the other dickheads have been at the podium telling us how wonderfull everything is.

I hear the this total bullshit that Bush calling Rummy on the cartpet and give it 0% credibility.

Then I see that Bush set records yesterday for fund raising in a single session...even while this scandal is opening like a swirling cesspool, US corporations are pumping money into this asshole's re-coronation.

And then we see in the WP that Bush would beat Kerry easily if the election were held today.

What the fuck is going on, America?! These men are destroying our nation, and America is upset that Kerry fell of a bike and has changed his mind LESS in 30 years than Bush has in 3 years. I am so livid. Bad start to the day. It is bad getting worse, and somehow the WP is telling us America wants Bush reselected.

Where is Kerry on this? Where is "our" candidate? Where is AMERICA on this? I am disgusted. Completely disgusted.

Oh, wait...Friends finale on tonight...at least the "liberal media" will have something else to cover....wouldn't want to hurt Bush's poll numbers, now, would we?

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MSgt213 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 06:45 AM
Response to Original message
1. People are like sheep. They follow the path of least resistance
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matcom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 06:51 AM
Response to Original message
2. our guy ain't losing
keep the faith
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FlashHarry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:14 AM
Response to Reply #2
10. Recent Gallup Poll: Kerry 49% Bush 48%
I agree, though; he needs to step up the campaign. Look for a Veep announcement before the end of May. He needs an attack-dog counterpart to Cheney.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:51 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. Agreed and please oh please let it be...
Wes... :)
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #10
18. If its Gephardt, we're cooked.
Boring and Boringer. Two consumate good old boy insiders stroking each other. It would be a HORRIBLE ticket.
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KissMyAsscroft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 06:54 AM
Response to Original message
3. Coporate Pravda and Tax Breaks for the coporations...
is what he is running against.

Everything else is just talk.
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dd123 Donating Member (226 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 06:54 AM
Response to Original message
4. There is a problem with our candidate.
Edited on Thu May-06-04 06:54 AM by dd123
People are laughing at the way he avoids answering questions in a simple and direct manner. Don't you realize that we are in BIG TROUBLE HERE?

I'm not a Hillary fan, but I think it may be a good idea to dump Kerry and bring her in. I do have another 1st choice to replace Kerry, but I'd be willing to settle for Hillary if that gave us a chance to win.
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 06:59 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. I didn't want to say it publicly
But you spilled it! If Kerry is not out there NOW, he gives Rove the advantage to spin this. In fact, Kerry NEVER seems to be out there. At least, not in the good way. He seems just "out there." But I am damn close to calling for ABB or K. I think of those debates and all the great candidates we had to choose from, and the corporate whores made sure we got the guy Bush wanted to run against (it wasn't ever really Dean). They played it brilliantly.
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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:06 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. Oh fucking please
What is that, a stealth freeper talking point? The freeps are running scard so they're suggesting that we Dems dump Kerry and nominate Hillary.... Kerry's going to trounce the Boy King...



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CWebster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:03 AM
Response to Original message
6. They defined us, and those who represented us, as "too angry"
for expressing outrage. Our representitives heralding change, with a challenging message, who opposed the present policies, who spoke to truth, were marginalized, ridiculed, politically assasinated. Voters were steered to unthreatening choices as more electible, who maintained the illusion to shield citizens from a reality they would rather not face up to.

We got what we got.

And now they tell us that our alternative to Bush has to rally the center that still clings to the illusion, and now is not the time to hold his feet to the fire for the truth to speak.
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:03 AM
Response to Original message
7. We're A Quiet Storm...
I haven't had this feeling in a long time. It's one of feeling good in one's beliefs and that others are starting to see things in the same light. It's almost like watching people wake up after passing out the night before and right now it's "where am I"...next will come "what happened"...that's when this regime is screwed.

There's a fundamental unrest in this country that is making all of us, or anyone with common sense and a conscious to take a good look at thing. The economy is in the shitter and getting worse for many, we're stuck in a war that could revisiting the worst of Vietnam at the best and a regime that refuses to take any responsibility. It's one thing to play he said/she said, which was what many people thought about our contempt and protests about this regime, but now with pictures and coffins and ruined lives, the talking heads and the beltwayers have no clue what's going on.

I'm just hoping we don't have to go further. Someone mentioned the other day that many Americans still don't realize the war and mess we're in in Iraq. They don't see uniformed soldiers on the streets or know someone whose either been killer or severely injured in this war and until they do, they won't feel it. I sure hope it doesn't come to that. Last time that occured, 58,000 lives were extinguished and hundreds of thousands...millions of lives were destroyed.
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:12 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. I hope you're not inferring I'm a freeper.
I am a very upset American. Go on and search my 1500 or so posts....not one freeper word in there. I think I have every right to be upset. Just as I am upset at Bush for showing no leadership, I feel that our party's candidate ain't showing too much himself. Bush has a thousand surrogates doing his bidding on the talking head shows; where is Kerry's team? Maybe it IS a cunning strategy to let Bush self-destruct. But I think that is insance, when you consider that NOTHING Bush had done has budged his fake corporate approval rating of 50%. I don't think Hillary is the answer at all. She wasn't in the race, and there were eight other very good choices that could be drafted at the convention.

I've haven given up on Kerry. I am just very pissed at whatever the hell he's doing.
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:50 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. You're Damned Right To Be Upset
I can't see where you get that I was inferring you being a Freeper. I don't play that game on here...and, if you'll look at my posts, I have plenty of "constructive criticisms" of my fellow Democrats. This isn't supposed to be a lock-step, robotic party. This is diversity and that we have more in common than not.

I'm not impressed with Kerry's campaign in it's current state, but we're still 5 months out from the election and Kerry's just come off a brutal year-long primary game and has had to weather $60mil in distorted * advertising. I think playing "rope-a-dope" right now is not a bad thing and that we just need to measure things, keep focused on the need to outst this regime and put up with all the crap (and there's gonna be a lot more) that's thrown our way between now and November. What doesn't kill us, makes us a lot stronger right now.

This regime has left a trail of debris that touches everyone's life or is about to. No matter how the media paints black as white, many Americans are not happy with how things are right now...remember how things were not too long ago and are going to be more than ready for a change in November. I just can feel it. Kerry just has to find a theme and stay on it...this regime is starting to really self-destruct. Just be ready to put a lot of pieces back together. Our work won't end on election day, it'll only be starting.

Cheers!
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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #9
20. I'm not inferring anything....
Edited on Thu May-06-04 08:07 AM by trumad
I'm just saying these threads are a bunch of uninformed Bullshit!

Did you see the Gallup poll today? (Kerry Leads) Or for that matter any other poll showing Kerry right there after Bush spent 70 mill in ad's....

Enough of this shit! You are coming across as completely misinformed.
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. We're not allowed to say certain things, right?
Then you'll have to guess what I'd say to you about now, trumad. Completely uninformed, my ass. I live, breath, eat this stuff, and I have an opinion about what I am seeing. You are coming across as a tool...read my posts on the subject...what, exactly, is UNINFORMED about it. Please be specific if you are planning on attacking people.
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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. Damn right I am a Tool..I'm a fucking Jackhammer for the Democratic party!
and when I see Chicken Littles spout shit like "Our guy is losing to a war criminal" I get mighty upset.... WHY! Because it's Bullshit! It's uninformed Bullshit. Again... George W. Bush is the incumbant er war time President who just spent 70 million in Ad's.... And today it comes out the JK leads in the Gallup polls... Go figure.

Now JK's about to drop 25 mill in ad's during sweep month... Wow... You think that might buckle Dubya's knees a bit.

Now...Is JK losing? So I ask...quit posting this type of Bullshit because that's exactly what it is!
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. First I was a freeper, now I'm a Chicken Little
You should join the Bush campaign. Sorry for raising legitimate concerns. Why don't I just stop paying attention to anything, and let you e-mail with instructions on how I should think.

Boy, you sure know how to win hearts and minds, eh? The only threads I've seen in the last week with this sort of flaming were also from you. I admire your conviction and fighting for the team, but you aren't doing anyone any favors with your brand of slash and burn, do it my way tactics. That is exactly what we are fighting right now. You obviously don't know the half of what I do, or have done, to fight the Bush machine. It has cost me dearly in many respects, but I have not and will not give up until he is out.

Nor will I give up my right to express my opinions because rude, arrogant prick on a message board has a bad attitude.
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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. I never called you a freeper but I admit too saying your chicken little
Edited on Thu May-06-04 10:06 AM by trumad
Slash and Burn... Whhhhattttt...you want me to be passive and kick back and join your woooohhh is me crap? Weeeerrrrreeeee LOOOOOSSSSINGGGGGG ...bwwwwwaaaaahhhhhhhaaaaaaa


We're not losing so quit fucking saying it.... Buck up, get some fucking conficence and FIGHT! And quit posting this fucking Chicken Little the sky is falling bullshit!
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. Nice talking to you. I won't do it again.
Piss off.
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ShaneGR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:15 AM
Response to Original message
11. Kerry is winning in Ohio, and nationally
Not sure what you're talking about.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/Presidential_Tracking_P...

Wednesday May 05, 2004--The latest Rasmussen Reports Presidential Tracking Poll shows Senator John F. Kerry with 47% of the vote and President George W. Bush with 43%.

Kerry has now held a three-point edge for three straight days. Neither candidate has held a three-point advantage for four consecutive days since Kerry emerged as the Democratic frontrunner.

When one candidate holds a "lead" in the tracking poll that vanishes after three days, it suggests that a single night of tracking was especially favorable to that candidate. If a candidate, in this case Kerry, is able to hold a lead for more than three days, it could signify a trend.

Arkansas:

Bush 45% Kerry 45%

Wisconsin:

Kerry 50% Bush 42%

Oregon:

Kerry 46% Bush 45%

California:

Kerry 51% Bush 40%

New Hampshire:

Kerry 47% Bush 45%

New Jersey:

Kerry 51% Bush 39%

West Virginia:

Bush 46% Kerry 41%

Colorado:

Bush 49% Kerry 44%

Florida:

Kerry 47% Bush 46%

Washington

Kerry 50% Bush 44%

Iowa

Kerry 51% Bush 41%

Minnesota

Kerry 47% Bush 44%

Missouri

Bush 49% Kerry 42%

Michigan

Kerry 48% Bush 44%

Ohio

Kerry 45% Bush 41%

Pennsylvania

Kerry 45% Bush 44%

North Carolina:

Bush 51% Kerry 43%

Illinois:

Kerry 52% Bush 39%

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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #11
17. The tie is a lie
Looke at those numbers...most are within the moe. That is nonsense. Kerry SHOULD BE and probably IS holding a wider margin. But once again, as long as we see tight races within one or two points, Bush WILL win, no matter if EVERY ONE of those 1-2 point polls are in Kerry's favor. Why? Because Bush needs the close race to rig the election. And I believe 100% that he/Rove have plans to do so. It only requires close polls, and look at what you've presented.

Now, calming down a bit...I do acknowledge that it is still early. But that doesn't cut it for me. Kerry should have a 30 point lead (and I think he actually does) against this most disastrous administration of all time. But he doesn't. Were expected to believe half the country is supporting Disaster. I admit, it doesn't help at all to have folks like Jon Stewart making fun of stupid Kerry mannerisms every night. Nothing of substance, just like the Bush attacks...just that he looks funny or talks funny or is boring. SO THE F*CK WHAT, Jon. Bush is a criminal! Then idiots like Penn Gillette on teevee last night, ranting on with the "the two are identical!" bullshit. How can anyone say Bush is just like ANYONE after the last three years.

I know, I'm rambling all over the place, but I really am pissed. I'm getting fed up with being lied to every day, day in and day out. I feel like a battered spouse...I can't leave. I have nowhere to go.

And my support group leader, John Kerry, is nowhere to be found.
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corporatewhore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:53 AM
Response to Original message
14. didnt we nominate kerry cause he was electable?
i felt back around iowa that we needed someone stronger whoactually stand up to bush
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59millionmorons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:55 AM
Response to Original message
15. Or is he losing--Gallup Kerry 49-48
hmmm
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Justice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:56 AM
Response to Original message
16. Please Stop Doing the RWs Work

Read about Joe Wilson on cspan - he says the media is intimidated by Bush.


You point to a series of facts about Bush which are very negative.

Then you do exactly what the RW wants you to do - say, gee Kerry is doing nothing, can't even beat a war criminal.

Joe Wilson's point is that the media isn't telling the true story cuz they are afraid of Bush. Yet, you know the true story about Bush. Why conclude that Kerry is at fault?

That is the problem people - we need to do what the media is not doing. Take the time to participate in the Kerry campaign so you have the answers - the campaign is alive and well and kicking butt.
The problem is - the media just doesn't want you to know about it!
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Orangepeel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:06 AM
Response to Original message
19. I thought that Kerry's primary campaign was dead in the water
dead. over. not a snowball's chance in hell. As an ardent Dean supporter, I was worried about Clark and Edwards, not Kerry. Kerry's campaign was a joke.

Obviously, I was completely wrong.

Turns out, Kerry is an excellent campaigner who knows what he is doing and comes on strong when it counts.

Now, I'm not saying that he can be complacent. He can't. But I am saying that based on the primary, it may LOOK like he is being complacent when he is really doing no such thing.
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CWebster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. We will see, because this time around
Kerry may not be the beneficiary of a media intent to take down Dean.

For those of you complaining about those of us complaining about Kerry---

Are you complaining about Bush? So are we, who has Kerry been supporting?
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mopaul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:14 AM
Response to Original message
22. is there any escape from this twilight zone nightmare?
what the hell country am i in anyway? cnn showed the 'polls' of approval between bush and kerry at about dead even. just great, now they'll call in the supreme court and rod serling starts to speak
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DaveSZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #22
27. I agree
Edited on Thu May-06-04 10:07 AM by DaveSZ
If it's Gep we'll lose bigtime.

The problem is also that Kerry simply agrees with Bush most of the time on foreign policy.

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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
29. Not one vote has been cast, Chicken Little, so Kerry isn't 'losing' at all
Edited on Thu May-06-04 10:24 AM by Padraig18
If people get their panties in a wad every time a single poll comes out showing Kerry behind, but within the MOE, they will be useless, quivering blobs of jelly by the time the GE rolls around in November.

National polls are fucking IRRELEVANT this far from November! Get a GRIP!

:wtf:
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Read my posts...I NEVER get my panties in a wad over polls
And THIS was not about "polls."

Kerry should be 50 points ahead. If not 70. It is about KERRY.

WP paraded a bunch of polls this morning showing 60% of America thinks we're heading in the wrong direction. That America now thinks the war was not worth it. A long littany of things America hates about Bush, how he loses to Kerry in every category.

THEN, the put up the full screen shot of the their new WP poll...nearly 60% said that if the election were held today, Bush would win. That is a HUGE gap, and completely at odds with all the other numbers they showed.

My concern is not this one goddamn poll. It is why, out of all the great candidates we had, we are now looking at a razor thin margin, according to every poll but this one, which has Bush trouncing Kerry. Kerry should be destroying the war criminal. But he can barely eek out a moe win. You've read all sorts of bs into my post that wasnt' there, and is not backed with a review of anything else I've posted.

Thanks for joining Trumad in the flaming. You've let me down...I thought this place was a free forum for intelligent debate and some real hard looks at the issues, not name calling because someone doesn't mimick your own personal views. Christ, I feel like I am on a Yahoo board or something!
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Claire Beth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
31. Kerry is NOT losing! n/t
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