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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 12:38 AM
Original message
The Beginning of the End in Iraq?
From a wise Freeper:

"Guys, face it. This is the begining of the end. I have seen my own family turn and do a complete 180 in the past week. It is utterly amazing the affect this has had."

Same here. My dad served in Vietnam. To my surprise, he was all for invading Iraq. Now he says lets get out of there asap. My girlfriend's father served in Vietnam. I don't think he was ever a war supporter. But now he seems firmly against.

I served in the Air Force and Army. I was never for this war. But I hate to see the Army with its head held low. But that's where we are now. And I don't think the American public will continue to support this occupation. Hell, I don't even think the public will continue to support the troops. That sucks.

This is a catastrophe. And for once, we can't blame this one all on Bush. This is just plain screwed up. It looks like we defeated Saddam, but lost the war. We should have never gone in there (virtually) alone.
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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 12:40 AM
Response to Original message
1. if we can't blame this on Bush
who the F#$k should we blame??!!??

:argh:
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ugarte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. The Freepers would say
Edited on Thu May-06-04 12:43 AM by ugarte
blame it on the public schools. :)
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. I saw some Freepers blaming it on
gays in the military. The excuses being made by these fascists are just stunning.
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RummyTheDummy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 01:46 AM
Response to Reply #2
24. But I thought it was Clinton's fault
NT
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. One step at a time with the sheeple
They have been blaming bush to a point lately.

That said, one step at a time, they have not connected any freeking
dots yet.
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RummyTheDummy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 01:50 AM
Response to Reply #6
26. Some of the Freeper scum will eventually connect the dots
But it has to come slowly. It's sort of like when people who are near death from starving can't just be handed a Big Mac and fries. The shock could kill them.

If the truth is unveiled all at once and the lies they base their entire beleif system were to be exposed so quickly their heads would explode.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #26
32. Actually that was the kidn of shock treatment we,
rightly so, practiced on the Germans in '45-8...
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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #1
10. Who should bear the blame - the short list (repost)
I said we can't blame this all on Bush. Oh he should get plenty of the blame. I also blame:

1. People who supported the war
2. People who voted for the war in Congress
3. People who didn't complain, even though they thought it was wrong
4. The perpetrators of the war crimes
5. People who encouraged the crimes, especially Bush and the Cheney administration
6. People who knew of what was going on and did nothing
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 12:44 AM
Response to Original message
3. WOW this was on freeperville
If this is the case, it's over and it is just a matter of time

And the sooner the better at this point
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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #3
11. That was only one voice
The rest are blaming Clinton and Kerry. How the FLUCK can they be to blame? Accoding to RW logic, the woman in the photos is a lesbian, paid by the left to hurt Bush's poll numbers.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 01:28 AM
Response to Reply #11
19. and her being pregnant
with a fellow soldiers baby doesnt factor into this logic huh

hm
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 12:45 AM
Response to Original message
4. Got a link?
WADR this sounds suspicious.
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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #4
12. Link here
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. I'll be damned
Edited on Thu May-06-04 01:18 AM by wtmusic
I like this one:

"I hate to be cynical, but could their be a money trail behind all this? It is an election year and I'd be curious if there are any embedded DEMS in the military."

It's true, there are DEMS hiding around every corner, using the USA PATRIOT act to force all you fucks to tell the truth! :D
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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. Entertaining, stuff isn't it?
Even better shock value than listening to Limbaugh or Hannity.
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 01:53 AM
Response to Reply #18
27. Cute the way we call Lynndie a monster...
... and they call her a bull-dyke-lez.

Same thing to them, I suppose. :puke:
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 12:45 AM
Response to Original message
5. I don't think the American people will ever not support the troops.
There are enough memories of Vietnam that will prevent that.

I do agree though that the public has already stopped supporting the war, and the number is growing daily.

This time think they are going to lay blame upon Bush, where it should be laid. More and more people are joining the group who said we should never have gone there in the first place.

I just hope things have not gotten so bad that President Kerry can't save the US from being totaly hated by everybody in the world.
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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #5
13. I hope you're right
But I think Rumsfled, Myers, Abizaid, Sanchez and that twit Dan Senor should be fired. And all the people who had anything to do with this should be put in jail.

Anything less than that, and its the same as saying this shit is okay - and it is NOT okay.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. Yuo are nice
Myers, Abizaid, Sanches and Karpinsky need to face a General Court Martial.

Rummy, Bush, Wolfie, Bremmer and Senor (tip of the iceberg), need to face a war crimes tribunal at the Hague... or OUR courts... but they need to be TRIED for this...

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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. I think Bush exempted them from War Crimes prosecution (?)
Wasn't it about 2 years that he refused to sign the international agreement on war crimes, citing "frivolous lawsuits" against Americans? Now we know the real reason, I guess.

Am I wrong on this?
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 02:04 AM
Response to Reply #20
31. You are right but he never got us out of the
Geneva Convention, and that can be used to DEMAND we try the bastards, or turn them over to the Hague.

My, my, to think that I said over a year ago... the ICRC is taking careful notes.
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KissMyAsscroft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 12:46 AM
Response to Original message
7. The Dems that supported this crap are just as much to blame..



I saw through it, why couldn't they?
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RummyTheDummy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 01:53 AM
Response to Reply #7
28. I voted for Edwards and Kerry....
That said, I tend to agree. I guess when it came to the primaries my heart was with Dean but my head was with those who I thought (and still think) could win.

Bottom line: Most of us here saw through the ruse a year ago. Like you said, it's too bad the "pros" couldn't as well.
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burrowowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 12:48 AM
Response to Original message
8. Go to this DU post
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

And read Pfaff's OpEd.
Of course, how do you tell all the sheeple, that we gotta go from Eye-rack after all that bloodshed and money and more money being asked for. Can Boo$h back down and not be tarred and feathered? And they say Ray-gun was coated with teflon.

We should not have gone into Iraq, period.
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 01:12 AM
Response to Original message
14. "looks like we defeated Saddam, but lost the war"
The true significance of this statement may take some time to sink into the US psyche. We are so used to thinking of ourselves as "winners" and "top of the heap" or what have you.

Empires don't loose--or, rather, if they do, they soon cease to be empires.

But there is, actually, a much bigger question. To whom and in what do our true elegancies lie? Perhaps we have been lead to believe that the barbarians were at the gate--when all along those leading us there were the most barbaric of us all.

If, in the long run, pure survival doesn't unite us as a species--well, then, as they used to say on the Weakest Link: Good BY!

Think about it.
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 01:22 AM
Response to Original message
17. I gently beg to differ. It ALL starts with bush. ALL OF IT.
We wouldn't BE in Iraq to begin with, were it not his jones for war, to settle old scores with Saddam, to grab the oil, to show up his old man, and to satisfy his messiah complex. Further, he surrounded himself with people who have repeatedly indicated they had old business to finish that went lacking for eight years - look how many leftovers and retreads from his dad's and Reagan's regimes infest this White House. That's the main reason why I agree with those who say if Al Gore was president, this would not have happened. He just DID NOT HAVE a bunch of rabid richard perles and other neocons and PNACers around him, whispering in his ear.

We wouldn't be in Iraq. Those soldiers wouldn't be dying - in Iraq. There wouldn't be worldwide condemnation of America (yep, that's US, too, not just him - we're gonna have to take the rap for him with some nutcase suicide bomber somewhere, at some time, because of HIM).

Those animals running Saddam's old prison who did those ghastly things to the Iraqi prisoners - WOULD NOT BE THERE, AND ABLE TO HAVE DONE THOSE HIDEOUS THINGS, if it weren't for him wanting so badly to beat up Iraq.

Just as all roads lead to Rome, all roads, here, lead straight to bush. HE started this. It IS his fault. It IS his for which to apologize to us, and to the rest of the world. It is HIS poor stewardship and lousy management and lazy-ass stupidity and lack of interest and lack of commitment and a higher priority placed on how many times he can kick back at the ranch while on the people's dime, and send everybody else's husband, son, dad, or daughter off to die in a war when he was above risking such things as a younger man. It all comes back to him. And if it's a rummy or a cheney or a condi or whoever else it is who's the fall-guy or the sucker here, not one of those individuals would be in the position they're in, if it weren't for HIM. Those who say - it's not bush, it's the people around him - are just kidding themselves. The people around him are there BECAUSE OF HIM. BECAUSE HE APPOINTED THEM, PAL'ed AROUND WITH THEM, TOOK MONEY FROM THEM, OR BORROWED THEM FROM HIS DAD'S RETINUE. They are ONLY there surrounding him - because HE CHOSE TO PUT THEM THERE.

It ALL comes back to bush. EVERY LAST SORRY SADISTIC BIT OF IT.

Harry Truman didn't say "the buck stops here" just to hear himself talk.
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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #17
22. It was so gentle, I don't think we even disagreed
Ultimately it all comes back to Bush, yes. But he had plenty of help. Same as the Nazis who were tried at Nuremburg.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 01:35 AM
Response to Original message
21. here is the blame hillary one
and i never go on the freeper board. was just a positive thought about post and hoping there was more. there wasnt, lol. but here is the blame clinton


I know! That tells me it is the Clintons! I swear they are working with the terrorists to undermine this Administration.
mmmm ...and who knows more about kinky sex than Bill and Hill?


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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. They really believe that stuff!
That's the scary part.
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RummyTheDummy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 01:55 AM
Response to Reply #23
29. What's even scarier....
Is they could see Bush machine gun a bus full of elementary school children on live TV and they WOULDN'T belive it.

They would mutter something about the liberal media or Bill Clinton's cock.
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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 02:01 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. Yep
Instead of asking how could this happen, they are asking how could these photos get leaked! Its the commie bastards. The liberal media. Whatever the hell that is.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 02:10 AM
Response to Reply #30
33. We are Smith
tehy are the monsters at room 101

And I know they read these threads

(hi guys)

they will not get this one either.

War is peace
Ignorance is knowledge
....

You know the rest
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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 02:22 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. That's a powerful point
I have a question. If he loses the election, do you think the media will come clean on all the coercion of the past few years?

I'd like to see some real reporting on the war, 9-11 and the 2000 election.
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JPJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 01:50 AM
Response to Original message
25. But we owe it to Chalabi to finish the job!
Otherwise, his lying and manipulating of the stupid was all for nothing.
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