Stupid question: Why do terrorists hate "freedom" ?

[kentuck]

I just heard Bush say it again for about the 1000th time. So I'm scratching my head trying to figure out why they would hate freedom? I would think that freedom would be beneficial to even terrorists. The freedom to move about. The freedom to speak and to publish newspapers of their own thinking. The freedom to buy materials to make bombs to kill their enemies. Why would they hate "freedom"? Could someone help explain what Mr Bush is talking about?

[radwriter0555]

1. what terrorists?

???

[kentuck]

4. Smarty Jones !

:)

[radwriter0555]

28. no seriously? the only terrorists in iraq that I see are the US troops...

....

[NeonLX]

2. They just hate the kind of freedom we impose on them.

"They hate our freedom" is just a convenient horsesh!t line for the monkeyman to throw at the sheeple.

[democratreformed]

3. Sorry, I can't help you with that one

It's a crock of shit, IMO. He wants us to believe that we, as Americans, are FREE (ha ha). He wants us to believe that terrorists attacked us on 9-11 b/c we are FREE (ha ha).

[Elbowroom]

5. it's orwellian sppeakge

"Tarrist hate freedumb" = "I hate dark skinned muslims!"

[Az]

6. Its a twist

What they hate is having our culture and society forced down their throats. But as Bush sells it to his followers America is freedom baby. Thus anyone that rejects America is rejecting freedom.

Imagine how the vatican would react if we tried to force the election of the pope open to all catholics instead of just the clergy. Would they hate us for our freedom or would they be pissed that we were trying to force our culture on top of theirs.

[prodigal_green]

9. Hang on a second...

(btw--I'm agreeing with you)

Isn't this the complaint that conservatives have with liberals? Guess the reason fundies hate America is because they hate our freedom.

[Az]

16. Bingo

Its not the liberals trying to descimate the constitution. Its the religious right. They are trying to dismantle nearly every aspect of the government. That which they cannot control they will destroy. Can't control education? Destroy it.

Think about why they pushed term limits so hard. There were elected officials that had strong ideas and were succesful at defending them. People valued these LEADERS and would consistantly vote them in. They could put forward the validity of difficult ideas. They could defend rights that were not always easy to understand.

The religious right could not control these powerful leaders. Therefor they had to reduce the hold that such strong individuals had on the system. Term limits lowered the standard of ideas in DC by forcing politicians into permenant campaign mode. Never again can someone focus on an ideal and champion it and let that speak for their record.

[mopaul]

7. NOBODY hates freedom, the idiot

and exactly who is the enemy that hates us? it sure the fuck wasn't the iraqis, it was the saudis!

[wryter2000]

It's a LIIIIIIIE

But it resonates with Murikans who think they're superior to everyone else.

[rock]

8. As usual with bushsucks*, it's just words

Some of his favorite I might add.

[ieoeja]

10. "Terrorists" in general don't hate freedom.

However, some terrorists and terrorist organizations, including Al Qeada, do. Al Qeada and the Islamic Revolutionary Movement's goal is to establish governments based on a fundamentalist interpretation of Islam. While there are certainly nationalistic reasons for their opposition to the United States, they also rail against things like MTV, etc. Freedom of religion, freedom of speech, etc are items they would like to see wiped off the face of the Earth.

Palestinian terrorist groups in contrast are primarily nationalistic in nature and made up people who tend to enjoy American freedoms and culture.

[bearfartinthewoods]

11. if you seriously want an answer

take a look at fundie moslem societies and tell me what freedoms we enjoy that they can't. little stuff like women's rights to drive oe even leave the house by themselves. freedom of religion. freedom to be openly gay. freedom to drink or gamble. just a few, off the top of my head.

[lectrobyte]

15. You're thinking of our good buddy Saudi Arabia

Women could drive in Iraq, although I'm sure it sucked in many many ways, it was the "secular" aspects of Sadam's Iraq that Osama hated. Remember him?

[denverbill]

21. It's still a lie. They hate us for our liberal lifestyle would be truer.

Unfortunately, if Bush says that he pisses off religious conservatives who want to be more like the Taliban.

[corporatewhore]

31. i think it hassomthing to dowith the years of imposed western colonialism

bombings killings wars stealling their land proppig up dictators etc etc

[dsewell]

12. It's theological, really

I think there's a pretty simple explanation. For GWB, the word "freedom" is meaningless without premising that God is the origin of freedom; an individual is only truly "free" if his or her will is in line with the will of God. If you rebel against God, you may think you are "free", but you are in fact bound by sin. Americans love true "freedom" in this sense because (for GWB) America is a nation whose values are based on faith in God. It's all pretty straightforward traditional, orthodox Christian theology. (Not saying that all contemporary American Christians agree, just that it's very much in the mainstream of Christian thought.)

Terrorists hate freedom because they hate God, or at least because they do not know or understand God.

GWB could never put it in those precise terms for public consumption, but I'm quite certain that this is what he really means by the shorthand "they hate our freedom".

[lectrobyte]

13. Stupid straw-man sloganeering

All those freedom-haters... All those who say brown-skinned people can't govern themselves... peeance and freeance...

I don't mind the hip-deep bullsh!t most days, I just wish he were a little more eloquent.

[corporatewhore]

14. are you talking about repugs who hate freedom of speech and

our reproductive freedoms

[amber dog democrat]

17. Hypothetically, you could argue

"Freedom" gives them, ( whom ever they are " no context in which to oppose tyrany or apostasy or contamination of our precious bodily fluids.. ( Dr. Strangelove for that last one!). Bushes's terrorists need oppression in order to resist it. Or so my arguement goes.

In M. Bulgakov's The Master and Margurita, Satan argues for the existance of Evil in that virtue can exist, in contrast to its opposite,in the way an object is defined by its shadow and shadings. That is the only supporting arguement I can think of.


Its kind of like why cops need criminals.

But honeslty I have NO clue what Bush means when he says that. Its just a mindless soundbite that does not bear up under scrutiny. I think Bush hates Freedom. ( the freedom to form unions, express opposing views, and not practice religeon, ( if one so chooses ). the freedom to determine one's reproductive choices or what genders can marry, or the freedom to be incarcerated under habius corpus proceedings.
The freedom to have a good education, decent health care and privacy.
The list goes on.

What freedoms we still have here need to be protected.

[sweetheart]

18. that euphemism of freedom

It means the rich are free to exploit the weak. It means the white
race is free to kill dark skinned people. You are free to vote for
the single party state... sort of like soviet freedom.

I don't care for that much either, truth be told. Liberty is the
word i am more inclined towards... and equality under the law.. the
things that have been trashed horribly under the bushaviks.

[chookie]

19. He speaks in code

For all his seeming blundering, His Chimperial Majesty speaks in a very controlled code.

He chooses words that have different meanings to different parts of his audience.

His base knows he has to say things to appease others, in order to ram their agenda through.

To reasonable people, who are not paying attention to what is actually going on, he wants us to think we are fighting for "freedom"

1. The condition of being free of restraints.
2. Liberty of the person from slavery, detention, or oppression.
3. a. Political independence.
b. Exemption from the arbitrary exercise of authority in the performance of a specific action
etc

When he speaks of "freedom" and "democracy" -- however, chances are he is actually referring specifically to Israel, which is the only democracy in the Middle East.

You might note that when he uses a monkey word, like "freedom", he will stop and smirk. He can't stop that fratboy reflex, that he is supposedly "getting over" some BS on people.

In other contexts, "freedom" is used to mean "unbridled capitalist greed".

Oh well, that Bush and his supporters have the same goal -- an authoritarian theocracy -- that some of the designated terrorists have, well, that's just a technicality.

[kentuck]

20. They must hate our freedom to move into Mecca and put McDonalds...

all over the Middle East. Why should they hate us for that??? But it is true, they never seemed to hate us until we used our freedom to impose our values upon their countries and holy cities... So I guess they do hate that type of "freedom"..?

[outinforce]

22. They Want To Shove Their Morality

Simple.

They want us -- and everyone else -- to live under their morality.

They view the USA -- and the West in general -- as a place of debauchery

And they view their mission from their god to purify the world and to make all humankind live under the law of their god.

[Kahuna]

25. Funny. This is exactly what the "terrorists" believe about us...

I suppose that's one reason Jesus said, 'judge not lest ye be judged.' Jesus also said, pride goeth before the fall. Other "proud" civilizations have fallen before us. We should not be so smug. Jesus said, the "meek" shall inherit the earth. Not the rich, greedy, powerful, pious hypocrites.

[SemperEadem]

35. Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before the fall

Proverbs 16:18
It is in the Old Testement. Jesus wasn't around yet.

[corporatewhore]

30. gee it ouldnt be because we have tortured killed bombed radiated androbbed

them could it

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DrWeird]

33. LOL

comeuppance is hilarious.

[SemperEadem]

34. I certainly don't see any of them over here changing laws

trying to force our country into adopting their customs. I don't see them coming over to this country as an occupying force, rounding up grandmothers and young children, firing mortar shells into malls or churches, so in what way can they possibly be trying to 'shove' their beliefs on us?

You are confusing them with Christian Dominionist/NeoPuritans.

Christians are the ones who feel they're under a 'divine mandate' to convert the world, by any means necessary, to their belief system. They're the ones going into war zones to convert muslims. They're the ones going into areas of the globe which are already Islamic (Africa, for instance) and using missionary-subversive tactics like food in exchange for accepting Jesus.

Their beliefs are theirs to believe freely--as freely as any Christians who trains their child up in their own beliefs in this country. Are you saying that they have no right to believe as they do?

[outinforce]

38. Not at All

"Are you saying that they have no right to believe as they do?"

I'm not saying that at all.

The question I was responding to was the question that initiated this thread -- basically, "Why Do Terrorists Hate 'Freedom'"?

My answer to that question is that they see the USA -- and the West more generally -- as being unpure infidels whose entire culture is steeped in what they would call debauchery.

They see, I think, what we call "freedom" as a license for depraved and debauched behavior.

Certainly, if your mindset is that your particular deity says that women should cover themselves from head to foot in sonmething like a burqua, then I think you might also think that your own deity would view the way most American or Western women dress as being totally unpure.

And if your worldview is that your diety wants to bring everyone under what you consider to be his law -- and that anyone or any culture that is outside that law is impure -- thne you might also think that it is your job to fulfill the wishes of your deity and "briong down the mighty" or "humble the powerful", and in so doing, "cleanse" the impure of all impurities and bring them under the law of your own diety.

Of course they are free to believe what ever they want to and to engage in whatever cultural or religious practices they choose to.

The question was, though, "why do Terrorists Hate Freedom". They hate western-style freedom because it appears to contradict their view of what their deity requires.

[SemperEadem]

40. non sequitur

But what you describe is the Christian fundamentalist Dominionist/NeoPuritan party line itself. They hate "freedom", also, by your definition. They are trying to force dress codes through the Louisiana house to make women cover their midriffs. How is THAT any different that Islamic women wearing burkas? For that matter, how many Islamic men do you see walking around with their shirts off? Or in shorts?

And still, I don't see them over here overthrowing our government to install their beliefs on us. In fact, they don't have to because the Christian fundamentalist Dominionist/NeoPuritans have got PNAC to do it for them, with most of Bush's cabinet members signed on before he stepped foot in the White House.

[outinforce]

41. Fundamentalism

by any other name, is still fundamentalism.

Remember -- the question is not "What are terrorists doing to restrict our freedoms -- the question is Why Do Terrorists Hate Freedom?

The fundamentalists of Asia are not too terrbily different from the fundamentalists of America.

Both groups, I would argue, hate freedom, or at least freedom as we understand it here in America.

The fundamentalists of Asia view any effort -- including acts of terrorism -- as being justified. They consider the killing of thousans of people -- thousands of immoral people living in a debauched society and culture -- as being completely moral and peraps even necessary. They consider acts of terror as being the only means at their disposal to destroy the evil, corrupt, and totally depraved culture (in their view) of the USA.

[Zinfandel]

23. The dumbest thing I've ever heard...such simple stupid people

who believe the village idiot Bush...that the reason bin Laden hijacked planes to hit the WTC was because they hate our freedom...like that is going to stop our freedom...fucking think people...

1) It's because we are oppressive and imperialistic to oil rich countries. (Arab countries and others).

2) Whether you agree or disagree...Because the US supports Israel with billions of dollars a year in aid and weapons.

NOT because of some cute stupid one liner to sum it all up by Bush..."Because they hate our freedom" what a pile of dog shit and people want to grasp on to that shit and believe it to be true.

[Az]

24. Repost: What is freedom

It seems to be a word that gets passed around a lot as something to fight and even die for. But what is it?

Total freedom would seem to be anarchy. People doing whatever they want to whomever they want. Is this what we are fighting for?

Freedom as we know it came from a very specific historical path. Our society has experienced a journey that has taught us that people must be free to make up their own minds about beliefs. We have learned that we cannot rely on dogmatic authorities to tell us what is right or wrong. We have learned that we must define our own paths.

We have learned these things through harsh trials. Social discord and turmoil were the costs of learning these lessons. They were not handed to us. We had to learn them for ourselves.

Yet now we expect nations which have not gone through the same lessons we have to accept our freedom despite their lack of appreciation for it. We march in demanding that they be free of their beliefs that holy men speak the absolute truth. We demand that they free themself from the idea that morality is defined by their god. We insist that they abandon their cherished certainty that their path is laid out before them and accept our uncertain struggle of freedom.

Even our society has very vocal members that cry out against the very freedom they champion. They call for authority over morality. They seek to restrict the rights of others in the name of god. They demand that even those the do not believe be made to swear to their gods.

Freedom is a word. We wave it about as a grand thing. But we lose sight of all it means and where it came from. We fail to see that it was the journey itself that gave us the appreciation for it. Civilization spent most of its existance without it. It fought harshly against it. Even those that cherish it know to limit it. When we offer it to others we must see where their journey has taken them and where they have to go yet.

[the Kelly Gang]

26. they hate YOUR freedom. ie: the freedom to work at WalMart

for a peasant wage.

[riverwalker]

27. why they keep using it

after 9/11 we were at a crossroads to understand why it happened. At first some people were scrambling to learn about our foriegn policies, and what could have caused this hatred. For a week or two it was a poignant self evaluation, and looked like maybe a new enlightened foriegn policy would evolve from the tragedy. But then Bush & Co. started their spinning of 9/11, to prepare us for their ultimate objective, Iraq. "They hate our freedom" is the crack cocaine peddled by the neocons to understand the war on terra. Easy, cheap, lazy and stupid.

[Cocoa]

29. it's designed to damage people's minds

all of their rhetoric is an assault on people's thinking. You really have to work
very hard to resist it. I think the press should be helping us much more than they
do. They should be pointing out that this makes no sense, like you just did.

[Canuckistanian]

36. Some say "Terraists", some say "Freedom Fighters"

Thin line, right? It all depends on your point of view.
Anytime one culture tries to impose it's values on another, there will be this dichotomy.
I think there's sufficient evidence that Iraqis reject this particular flavor of "freedom". They want freedom on their own terms.
But it ain't gonna happen that way.

[RedEarth]

37. Retired General Barry McCaffery wondered what bush meant

by that phrase. Frankly, I'm not sure if anyone knows what it means......it just sounds good to the radical right.

[DoNotRefill]

39. The Wahabists....

want everybody to be forced into accepting their particular brand of Islam, at the point of a sword, if necessary.

Fundamentalist religions, regardless of what religion they are based upon, are not big into freedom. Just look at the crap the Christian Coalition has been pushing...legislating morality to suit their vision of what the world should be.

[seabeyond]

42. well, the fanatics absolutely dont want freedom

that is for sure. the reality is............lol

they do want a very controlled tightly controlled environment. over their women, children and men too. they want all the restrictions of their religion to be adhered to and there is a lot of control and restriction in the religion. so........

the governments over there dont want freedom cause they are dictators and they are raping the lands and hording the money and their people are poor and without control

but then, they are not us. they have to progress over time little by little, their way and their time. we cannot do it for them. adn their freedom is different than our.

but then in reality our people here in the u.s. seems to be having a little issue with wanting freedom too. they want to control their neighbors out of fear and control and dictate exactly how we all are suppose to live, be it the fundies, the pc'ers, the anti gun, anti abortion, the school zero tolerance, the drug laws, seatbelt laws, smoking laws, media control, voting control, lack of free speech ............i had some kids lighting firecrackers in my driveway, watching them they were totally ok, a cop pulls up and threatens to throw them in jail, some neighbor called on them. i talked ot cops what, they havent done anything wrong. well ya, they made come noise at 3 in the afternoon.

[taquinas101]

43. You Are Misquoting Bush!!! ; - )

The terrorists don't hate freedom, they hate democracy. They are merely "enemies of freedom."

;-)

[Wind Dancer]

44. Bush constantly screams

"they" hate our freedom. No misquotes!