U.S. proposes to draft women; extend draft age from 26 to 34

[ringmastery]

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename...

U.S. eyes proposal to draft women

WASHINGTON—The chief of the U.S. Selective Service System has proposed registering women for the military draft and requiring that young Americans regularly inform the government about whether they have training in niche specialties needed in the armed services.

The proposal, which the agency's acting director Lewis Brodsky presented to senior Pentagon officials just before the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq, also seeks to extend the age of draft registration to 34, up from 25.

The issue of a renewed draft has gained attention because of concern that U.S. military forces are stretched thin because of worldwide commitments.

[HuskerDem]

1. Ass#ole can't have my little girl

Not going to happen.

[Brotherjohn]

10. They can't have my WIFE, either, dammit!!

If this idea becomes widely known, Bush is toast.

[Cheswick2.0]

57. yes, and my son is just as precious as your daughter

If there is a draft we should expect women to be drafted too.

[Pithlet]

79. I don't think anyone

regardless of the sex of their child, wants them to be drafted.

Nothing wrong with that reaction.

[CO Liberal]

2. Great - My Kids Are Both Subject To This

Yet another reason to vote for Kerry!!!!

[greatauntoftriplets]

5. The triplets' mother is 33 -- 34 next March.

But my 30-year-old niece is a psych nurse. I imagine the military has a lot of need for that profession these days. My 23-year-old nephew served four years active duty (infantry -- never saw action ), but he is now in the National Guard.

[SammyWinstonJack]

76. So are both of mine

Two sons 26 and 31. Thought they would both be safe. My oldest son already served 8 yrs in the Army and with the California NG. Plus he has a degree in Computer Science. Neither of them were planning on voting, even though I have tried my best to make them understand how important this election is. I will show this article to them both, it might convince them to register to vote.

[havocmom]

3. Then the US military better get serious about sexual attacks on and by

US military personnel! If they don't but draft women and teach them to use guns, I see a serious staffing problem ahead.

[DarkPhenyx]

17. BS.

They already know how to shoot. Every soldier, with very few exceptions like Chaplains, learn how to shoot. It dosen't make a difference.

[NC_Nurse]

4. My kids

are 16 to 22 years old. I guess it's time to start planning that move to Canada.

[Kahuna]

6. Great find. I need to show this to apathetic young nonvoters

in my family. They think that because they are over 26, they don't have to worry about being drafted.

[7th_Sephiroth]

7. as a 19 year old MCSE studying to be master electrician

can someone give me a link to the names of the people on my local draft board

[boxster]

13. How about a one-way plane ticket to Canada?

Or, perhaps we could take up a collection for some bribes of your draft board members.

[7th_Sephiroth]

16. i have a different form of persuasion in mind

it involves giving them a list of the names and addereese of the draft board members and thier families

[atreides1]

19. And Who Would you Give This Info To.

I'm just curious, why would you need this information, and who would you give it to?

[7th_Sephiroth]

37. them

lets say you hold someones fate in your hands and then some one reads off a list of your loved ones, think about it

[atreides1]

38. So You're a Bush Supporter?

You would do the same kind of thing to a person that the White House did to Joe Wilson and his wife, right?

By the way for your information I'm a draft board member, my reasons for volunteering are my own.

One thing, anyone comes after me or my family, they'll be leaving on a gurney and it won't be going to the hospital.

What you plan to do is called intimidation and it's against the law, especially when you threaten to do it to someone who is doing what
their office allows them to do.

[7th_Sephiroth]

45. i call it self defense

and tho i am verry liberal peacefull and open about things, i will NOT be a slave and will kill to keep from being one

[bhunt70]

68. you'd be a slave if you went to prison.

[DarkPhenyx]

75. This belief of yours makes you a potential terrorist you know.

It also makes you no better than those you profess to stand against. Sad that you have decided to slide into the pit with them. It does make you one of the enemy and not one of the allies. Truly sad. We could sure use more allies. So be it though.

[neverborn]

63. 7th - You're more despicable than most people on FR

Rot in hell.

[BootinUp]

8. Holy Smokes

They think the general population would stand for these changes? Not.

[atreides1]

20. You Foget

At least half of that population are sheep, who would follow the Judas Goat right to the slaughter house, without giving it a second thought.

[Pithlet]

80. I doubt it.

I think that something like this would shake a lot of people out of their apathy. I don't think it will happen, though. If Bush were smart, he and his people would be saying "ixnay on the aftdray" right about now.

[madaboutharry]

9. This will never fly

I think that this is getting floated so that when the draft comes in its traditional manifestation people will accept it. "Oh, well at least they're not drafting girls..." You know how it works.

[DarkPhenyx]

62. Yeah, hypocrasy in action.

Equality, equality, equality...wait, there's a draft? You can't draft me I'm a girl.

[Pithlet]

81. What, exactly

is hypocritical about wanting equality, and being against the draft?

[DarkPhenyx]

102. Nothing.

But supporting inequailty in the draft is hypocritical. You can support that inequality and still be agaisnt the draft.

[Hubert Flottz]

11. Tell the crooks that until you get equal pay you do not have

equal rights! If you get drafted you can always go AWOL and maybe become the first lady pResident! Cook you books like Kenny Boy and act like you have billions of dollars that you don't really have, because as you know rich people NEVER get drafted! Just Say No!

[teryang]

12. This is outrageous

They'll never get my daughter, not involuntarily.

[DarkPhenyx]

15. Would you feel the same...

...about your son? How about someone elses son? Are you suddenly against the draft simply because it affects your daughter? Interesting.

[teryang]

23. I've been against the draft my whole life

...I've demonstrated against it and resisted it. I've mentioned before that my son is not medically qualified for service but I don't expect anyone to know this. Thank god.

I've got lots of active duty time myself AS A VOLUNTEER. Bush I and Cheney decided to gut the volunteer forces and depend on reserves as a source of cheap labor (greater productivity) so that a greater share of defense dollars can go to such absurd programs as NMD and contracts for Halliburton. This has been a problem for over a decade. They riffed a large number of professional cadre at the mid level and didn't think to replace them for ideological reasons.

Now they're stuck. I won't tell you how much money the government has offered my daughter to become an officer, it's obscene. Many of the most talented young people in our country are offended by these efforts because of the obvious criminal indifference to human life demonstrated by this regime. If she doesn't want to accept it, they should not be able to compel her on less favorable terms. I'm sure that if the country were actually attacked instead of being the victim of dishonest unelected leaders, cynical politicians and war profiteers she might be patrioticly motivated to volunteer.

The Cheney manpower/reserve plan was criticized by Senator Nunn at the time but it became the new system. Now that they are involved in elective imprudent commitments with inadequate resources politicians are talking up involuntary servitude as a response.

Here's my proposal, get out of Iraq and charter the American Middle Eastern Company, which will commission and pay for its own armed forces to enslave foreign colonies.

[DarkPhenyx]

26. Just checking.

Me and my obligatory hypocrasy check.

I am actually aware of how much they are offering officers these days. I am currently on IRR as an officer. They keep reminding me how wonderful it is on the active side of the fence, and that they haven't forgotten about me yet.

[DarkPhenyx]

14. Excellent!

Wonderful! I applaud their realization that equality must extend into all facets of life and be equally applied to everyone or it isn't equality at all. I am looking forward to the legislation being passed as quickly as possible, then followed by legislation permitting women assignments in combat MOS' in order to bring true equality to military service.

I am actually very pleased with this news.

[teryang]

49. Go active and go yourself n/t

[DarkPhenyx]

59. OK, clue time for you.

If the draft gets activated I will be going active. So this is far from an academic discussion for me. You will also be interested in knowing that the draft pln includes activating the senior class of all acadamies, and every ROTC unit.

So yeah...I think adding women to the draft pool is a very, very, good thing.

you have a problem with equality or something?

[teryang]

69. Why wait?

You're so eager to send others.

On edit:

You made a voluntary choice and now you want others to be forced in against their will? Now I understand.

[DarkPhenyx]

70. See, that would be where you are horribly wrong.

I am not eager to send anyone. Soldiers are the ones least willing to go to war because we are the ones who will do the dying, not you who gets to sit home comfortable and protected.

However, if we are going to have a draft and the draftees are going to get sent to the war zone, then I want everyone eligible. Everyone. We are interested in equality after all aren't we? That requires equality in everything. The good things and the bad. Gains and sacrifices.

Or are you one of those people who only believe in equality when it benefits you?

[teryang]

71. I did my time

You bought the recruitment pitch. You are the one who is wrong, literally. I feel compassion for you. 6 years tough break. I wish you well.

[DarkPhenyx]

72. Oooooooooooooo, patronizing attitude to a serviceman. nice!

Nice to know you don't believe in true equality. I'll have to make sure and put that note next to your name in my book. Yes, I really do keep a book.

*further note: refuses to address points made in preceeding post, no discussion possible*

[teryang]

73. The lives of others should be experimented with

...for your immature inability to face the consequences of your own choice. Becuase you made a choice, the choice of others should be forcibly taken away. I see where you are coming from.

[DarkPhenyx]

74. All I said was...

...that if they re-start the draft women should be drafted as well, and included into the combat arms. A belief in true equality demands that of us. It has nothing to do with whether we believe the draft is right or not. It has nothing to do if we believe this war is right or not. It really has nothing to do if you are a pacifist or a mar monger, or even something in between. If you honestly believe in true equality then you must believe that equality is for everyone, and should be applied in all things. Anything less than that is leaving room for a greater or lesser level of hypocrisy in your world view.

Everything else you profess of me is your own biases and beliefs being placed on me by you. Interesting. Also interesting that you believe everyone currently serving in uniform is immature. Curious. I guess we can assume you also believe they are naive. Fascinating. Please, tell us more.

[Pithlet]

83. Do you believe equality has been achieved currently? n/t

[DarkPhenyx]

86. Of course not, silly.

Women are not registered for the draft. Since men are required, but women aren't, we don't have equality. Imagine that.

[Pithlet]

88. Thank you

I think I know where you stand on the issue of women and equality now. That answer told me a lot.

[DarkPhenyx]

90. So where do I stand?

I doubt very seriously you learned anything from that one post, let alone anything remotely correct. I could be wrong though. It would be interesting to see if I am.

[Pithlet]

92. Well, for starters

you didn't answer my question, and you know it.

Where do you think it stands now, with women and equality. Have we achieved it?

[DarkPhenyx]

94. I answered it quite clearly.

Since women are not required to register for the draft then no, we haven't acheived equality. What part of that confuses you?

[Pithlet]

97. That was not my question.

If I had asked "with respect to the draft..." then yes, that would have answered my question.

My question was, have women achieved equality. You aren't answering the question, you are giving a cute answer. I already know how you stand with regards to the draft.

[DarkPhenyx]

99. However the draft issue...

...is part of the equation. Equality isn't jsut the issue you pick and choose simply because your pet group is the underdog in them. It is all issues and all thing. The lack of equality ion the draft means that yes in fact women have not acheived equality. In this case they are benefiting from that lack of equality to the detriment of their male counterparts. it is also a horrible lack of equality that women can't serve in combat positions. Again, a way in which they benefit from that lack of equality.

[Pithlet]

101. "Pet group" huh?

Look, I think the issue of the draft is one of the last places I'd be looking to push the issue of equality.

I apologize if I've been abrupt, but your posts kind of had the ring of "Oh, boy, those women wanting equality are going to get theirs now!"

The issue of women and equality goes far beyond being anyone's "Pet group". I'm no one's pet group. I hardly think it is unreasonable for women to say, when faced with draft, "Um, how about treating us a little more equally, huh?" Certainly sounds reasonable to me. Not hypocritical in the least.

[DarkPhenyx]

106. Why?

Becasue you are against it? You opinon then is that equality only matters in the places where it benefits you and your pet group. You want all the good toys and none of the bad ones. Sorry. Dosen't work that way. Not if you really want equality.

"Oh, boy, those women wanting equality are going to get theirs now!"

Yup! That is kinda what I'm saying. It more of a "fine, you want equality? You want to fight for it and demand it? Here's where you put your money and your mouth together. If you are not willing to accept equal risk and equal sacrafice then you should not get equal benefits." Equality, true equality, isn't just for the good things, but also for the bad.

[Pithlet]

107. No

THat is NOT my opinion. I never said anything of the sort. I'm addressing the things that YOU are saying. You can disagree with wheter or not the fight for equality for women is justified, but I am saying that you cannot call it HYPOCRITICAL to demand equality.

[DarkPhenyx]

108. I've never said it was.

I said to demand equality and then not be willing to accept equality in everything when it is not necessarily in your best interest to, such as women being eligible for the draft, is hypocritical by the very definition of the word.

[Pithlet]

109. Where did I say

that I wasn't willing to accept equality in everything? As a matter of fact, I don't think I saw anyone in this thread say that.

Edited to add: And that includes the draft.

[DarkPhenyx]

110. So why are you attacking me for supporting that very idea?

That makes no sense what so ever.

What a waste of bandwidth.

[Pithlet]

111. Why did you bring up

those hypocritical women who don't want the draft for themselves, when there are none that I can see around here? THAT, to me, seemed a waste of bandwidth.

Also, both men and women are against the draft, and don't want to be drafted themselves. They don't always have nefarious or hypocritical reasons for doing so. In fact, that is a rather personal nature. Questioning those motives, and jumping to conclusions of hypocrisy kind of just rubbed me the wrong way.

[DarkPhenyx]

112. Oh well.

You'll get over it prehaps.

[Pithlet]

114. I'm over it.

I was over it when you didn't answer my question.

[DarkPhenyx]

115. I did answer it.

You simply didn't like that answer. That would be your problem however. Not mine.

[Pithlet]

116. You didn't.

But, in not answering it, you did.

Have a great evening.

[DarkPhenyx]

117. Funny...you asked if we had equality...

...and I told you we didn't. Sounds like an answer, and a direct one, to me.

Nighters.

I WIN!

[kcr]

131. You Win??

I am sorry mate, but that has to be the most pathetic attempt to win points I have ever seen.

You come fluoncing into a thread about the draft, start spweing nonsense about "Oh, women are hypocritical becasue they don't want to be drafted but want equality!" and give an answer that a five year could tell was implying that you thought women were ALREADY equal. And all this based on a strawman of your own devising -- that women in this thread were opposed to the draft not becasue of opposition to the draft but becasue they oppoased only women being drafted.

What college gave you your degree mate -- so the rest of us know to avoid it. The really, really, really poor quality of your arguments in this thread do not serve as an effective recruiting tool for your alma mater.

[U4ikLefty]

135. I agree

that sophistry was a waste of time. I was waiting for a point...but NOOOO!!!

[Pithlet]

104. And, I do think it is telling.

That you won't answer my original question.

[DarkPhenyx]

118. I did answer it.

You asked if we had equality and I said we didn't becasue women are not required to register for the draft. Why is this such a difficult concept for you to grasp? I can make it simplier for you if you would like.

[Cheswick2.0]

58. if there is a draft, of course women should be drafted

but then I also think that women should refuse to vote for any presidential ticket that doesn't have a woman on it. I plan to start an organization that will organize women to refuse to vote for two men for pres and VP in 2008.

[DarkPhenyx]

60. It's a decent concept...

...but it will hamstring our candidates, and quite honestly it smacks of "one issue voting". I would assume that you wouldn't want to vote for Bush/Condi '04. Or worse.

[noiretextatique]

125. why not a woman on the democratic ticket?

or perhaps even <gasp> a black man? black men were drafted to fight for this country when they didn't even have full citizenship IN this country (or in the armed forces, for that matter).
hamstring our candidates indeed...too bad so many democrats are similar to the people who would vote for bush/condi.

[DarkPhenyx]

127. I'm all for it.

So long as they are actually electable. Unless we change the current political process they are going to have to be "electable".

I do not support voting for someone just because they are a woman, or black or whatever. I'd love to see a Lakota Sioux run for President, but if that's all I have in common with them, if it's the only merit I see in them, I am not voting for their sorry ass.

[noiretextatique]

129. but...we are all forced to vote for white men, aren't we?

because "electable" in a presidential race still = white male.
i really hate voting for them "just because" too.

[DarkPhenyx]

137. Not at all.

Or at least not in my opinion. Collin Powell was very electable at one point. Hillary might be electable.

[noiretextatique]

140. who is running this year? who ran in 2004?

at least lieberman is jewish. i don't think a black man will be president in my lifetime, but i think a white woman might have a chance.
later...

[DarkPhenyx]

141. One year I voted for two women.

It was an interesting year.

Remember this though. If we don't put someone up there who is more electable than Al Sharpton if we want to be serious about it. Al did a surprisingly good job this last time around, but he isn't ever going to be electable.

[noiretextatique]

142. you voted for two women for president?

really? do you think the democratic party was ever serious about al sharpton? i don't. the only black person i've heard mentioned here is colin powell...and i doubt he would inspire many black voters, to be honest (and not many white democrats now).
but you are right...unlike, bush and other mediocre white men, a black male candidate will have to have a lot more than a charisma (which bush doesn't have either)

[Pithlet]

82. So,let me get this straight.

You'll be happy because people you perceive to be hypocritical will be going off to war to die.

That's great.

[DarkPhenyx]

87. Nope!

You got it wrong in one.

Wanna try again?

[Pithlet]

89. Maybe you should clarify your position.

It seems to me that you're barking down everyone's back who isn't wetting their pants with glee over the draft extention.

[DarkPhenyx]

91. Of course I am.

Being willing to support the continued inequality of the draft as it is currently designed is to be supporting a hypocritical position for anyone who believes in equality.

[Pithlet]

93. According to you

I disagree with you. But, I would not be happy to see the draft extend to you (if it hasn't already) just because you don't agree with me.

[DarkPhenyx]

96. Why do you disagree?

Support your position with something besides "'cuz I said so." That would be ever so helpful, thanks.

I'm already serving. So the draft dosen't directly affect me.

[Pithlet]

98. I'm against the draft, period.

How many posts have there been from women, or anyone else, who are for the draft, but against drafting women. I haven't seen too many, have you? Certainly not enough to justify running around and asking people confrontationally why they're against the draft for themselves, and throwing charges of hypocricy everywhere.

Maybe I've missed these posts, though.

[DarkPhenyx]

100. Not the point.

So because you are against the draft, and despite that it exists anyway, men begin required to register, and women aren't, isn't discrimination and a good example of inequality in the system? All because you are against it? My! What a horribly waek and terminally flawed arguemnt. Fascinating. *scribbling notes*

[Pithlet]

103. See my response

in our other subthread.

[kcr]

132. "scribbling notes"

In crayon, one assumes from the quaity of that argument.

So, according to you, being opposed to a thing means that people actually support that thing in its current ineqiuatable form.

See, that doesn't make, well, any sense.

So, to cut to the point, please show me examples of women in this thread saying that they the draft is fine as long as its only men being drafted. If you cannot, you have been attacking people for no reason with no evidence. Not, I would suggest, the best of tactics.

[symbolman]

18. Hey this is GREAT

NEWS for the FREEPERS!

Now they can be FORCED to server their country whether they just want to sit on their asses and trash people or not..

the best part is since they all know how to operate a computer that means they have that "special skill" the govt is looking for..

see you all in hell, I mean IRAQ freepers..

no, wait a minute, I already SERVED MY COUNTRY and I'm 51 years old.. oh well.. guess I'll stay here and indocrinate the kids with liberal values..

[West Coast Democrat]

21. Are they purposely trying to create a spike in unwanted pregnancies?

I thought so.

[smirkymonkey]

47. And this will certainly pose a dilemma for

the X-tian, Pro-life fundies, sending fetuses off to war. They are going to have a real problem trying to reconcile that quandary!

What is the policy with pregnant soldiers now? Does anybody know?

[atreides1]

22. Here's Some Information On the Selective Service Site

College Deferments:

Under current draft law, a college student can have his induction postponed only until the end of the current semester. A senior can be postponed until the end of the academic year.

Appeals:

The registrant is guaranteed a personal appearance before the board if he wanted to appeal his classification. This was not part of the appeals process prior to now.

Paternity/Marital Deferments:

Both of these were revoked by Executive Order 11527, signed on 4-23-70
by President Richard M. Nixon

In other words folks there isn't a lot of wiggle room for anybody. Unless Congress changes the rules. And we all know that won't happen.

Wink, wink, nudge,nudge, know what I mean.

[against all enemies]

27. Does anyone know what deferments

would be allowed. Too tall, too short, fat, skinny, braces?

[atreides1]

29. Those Are Physical Standards

Those you list are physical requirements/standards that the military has. I know people on active duty now that wear braces, the height standard was done away with, and the weight standard is still in effect for all military branches. And I know they use to have a weight standard for people who were underweight, but I'm not sure if that one is still in effect.

So the only one that might work is being overweight, and remember I said it "might" work.

Go to the Selective Service site online, there is more information there.

[MilDem]

24. I Agree

If there were to be a draft (which I hope not) I would like to see the draft age raised and women also drafted. There are enough jobs that women can do to make it worthwhile. Why should men be the only ones forced to go to war? Women can be great soldiers also.

[spotbird]

25. Who knew my children's strange medical quirks would turn out to

be a blessing? They can't draft someone who needs daily medication can they?

[TahitiNut]

28. Why not? We were all required to take daily medication in Viet Nam.

Malaria prophylaxis.

[spotbird]

39. Bummer. n/t

[TahitiNut]

43. Yup. Literally.

The daily white one's weren't so bad, but the weekly orange ones made latrines a popular place for a day.

[AspenRose]

30. Paging the Bush twins....Paging the Bush twins....

...I just missed the cutoff, turned 36 Friday.

[robertpaulsen]

31. What if I tell the draft board that I'm bisexual?

Or what if I screamed at them like Dennis Hopper in Blue Velvet, "I'll fuck anything that moves!" Would that get me a 4-F classification?

[DarkPhenyx]

61. I suggest you find a copy of "Alice's Resraunt".

The long version mind you with four part masacre (sp?) and all.

[nonconformist]

32. Cripes.

The optimist in me thinks this will NEVER fly... but the increasing cynic in me wonders if I should be worried.

[tom_paine]

33. One wonders how Ringmaster chooses his topics

Is he trying to elicit over-the-top responses?

Demoralize us?

Or just choke us with his nonsense and insincere phony pretending to be a DUer?

I don't know and I don't care.

[doni_georgia]

55. Yes, yes, and yes n/t

[prodigal_green]

34. I feel an anal cyst coming on...

[FlemingsGhost]

35. Please, please, please be foolish enough to renew the draft.

Let's get this party started...

[markomalley]

36. I think it's a great idea!!!

(got you to open this up, didn't I)

Once Kerry is sworn in. If there is going to be a draft, then I think that EVERYBODY should be eligible for the fun. My primary problem with it is the fact that * would be the one implementing it. But, if Kerry says it's necessary and good, then I'll trust him with my childrens' lives. He is, after all, a good man.

Until a proper, progressive leader like Kerry occupies the Oval Office, then forget it!

[Dems Will Win]

40. Kerry has a NO DRAFT PLAN

This summer Bush is reducing DRAFT ACTIVATION time by having the SSS conduct NATIONWIDE EXERCISES to test the whole system, even to the point of filling all DRAFT BOARD vacancies and gearing up the Alternative Service for COs for the first time in three decades. The SSS this summer is finalizing the 2 documents needed for the AS to start up, the SOP identifying ASW employers and the MOUs those employers will have to sign to get those cheap, unassigned workers. THis is the last essential piece that had to be activated before the March 31 report.
http://www.sss.gov/perfplan_fy2004.html

Kerry's NO-DRAFT plan to raise 40,000 additional troops and avoid reinstatement of the draft is added up this way (my synthesis of what Kerry talks about when asked):

1. Move some paper-pushers to combat (lots of potential there)
2. Increase enlistment with real scholarships and pay, benefit raises
3. Let troops know Special Ops will hunt al-Queda, no more invasions needed, so re-up rate goes up. "Primarily a law enforcement effort, not a full military effort", say JK on MTP 4/18/04.
4. Start a "Civilian Stability Corps" that would help in reconstructing Afghanistan and Iraq and relieve military pressure.
5. GET FOREIGN TROOPS TO COME INTO INSTEAD OF LEAVE IRAQ!!

The 40,000 new troops DO NOT go to Iraq but relieve the divisions in Korea and elsewhere and THEY GO.

http://www.candidatemap.com

"...I propose that we enlist thousands of them in a Civilian Stability Corps, a reserve organization of volunteers ready to help win the peace in troubled places. Like military reservists, they will have peacetime jobs; but in times of national need, they will be called into service to restore roads, renovate schools, open hospitals, repair power systems, draft a constitution, or build a police force. A Civilian Stability Corps can bring the best of America to the worst of the world—and reduce pressure on the military."
< Source: Kerry, John. "Protecting Our Military Families in Times of War: A Military Family Bill of Rights." March 17, 2004. http://johnkerry.com/pressroom/speeches/spc_2004_0317.h... >

With this NO-DRAFT PLAN, Kerry will not have to resort to conscription, even after Bush screwed the whole thing up.

And he will go renewable energy and for energy independence and has said over and over no more soldiers will die for oil!

BUSH '04 = DRAFT '05
KERRY '04 = PNAC OUT THE DOOR!

[nonconformist]

41. Huh?

Draft = BAD, no matter WHO implements it. The only time a draft is acceptable is if it is necessary for the survival of our country. Period.

[markomalley]

42. Exactly my point...

...Kerry would never do such a fascist move as this unless the survival of the country mandated it. We here all trust him enough to know that if he ever did call for such a thing then we can trust that it would be absolutely necessary. Therefore:

Bush + Draft = BAD
Kerry + Draft = NECESSARY

[nonconformist]

44. You so crazy! *slaps knee* nt

[markomalley]

46. If you can't trust him to that degree, then why are you supporting him?

I mean, he will have his finger on the "button." If you can deal with him literally having the power to destroy all forms of life on the planet, then I don't see why there would be any kind of an issue with a small matter like the draft.

[nonconformist]

48. I'm not going to take the bait to bash Kerry

Kerry has a no-draft plan. Yes, I do trust him - but at the same time, I will never put 100% trust in any government and feel that I shouldn't question them.

[markomalley]

51. Good...because no bait was cast...

...and I realize that...at this time...Kerry has a "no draft" plan. But suppose something new comes up a couple of years into his administration and the situation changes...then what??? Hopefully, as a combat-decorated Vietnam veteran, you would trust his judgement.

[Sterling]

123. Kerry will start the draft

And no it wont be because the homeland is being invaded.

[markomalley]

128. Just as long as its for a good, justifiable reason...

...then I will defer to his judgement. Since he cannot be criticized as a "chickenhawk" by anybody, I think his judgement would be far more valid than what is currently out there.

[killbotfactory]

50. It's their job creation plan...

They'll count the number of people drafted as new jobs created.

[slinkerwink]

52. They can't draft me because I'm profoundly deaf

[Occulus]

77. OOooo, but if you're fluent in ASL- and I suspect you are-

doesn't that count as a "special skill?"

[slinkerwink]

78. I don't know ASL because I speak orally

[WLKjr]

95. that was harsh, lol

[TahitiNut]

85. Perfect for duty in a naval gun turret.

... or Army artillery.

[slinkerwink]

136. nope, the Army does not accept deaf people and neither does the Navy

[MrSlayer]

53. Draft Me! - First Round Draft Choice by D.R.I. 1983

Draft me... I want to have fun
Draft me... give me a gun
Draft me... I'd understand
Draft me... I want to be a man

I want to help America keep the peace
I want to be a trooper in the world police, Draft me!

F.R.D.C.

I'm a first round draft choice... 19
A man without a choice... unseen
Feedback from society
Please... A reason

For Kampuchea
The problems in Korea
The wars in Iran
Afghanistan
Argentina's Falkland Islands!!


Stupid, Stupid War

You think you look good in your new uniform
Starched and pressed into the perfect norm
Until uncle Sam puts a gun in your hand
Points you in the wrong direction and says,
"Kill that man!"

Well, I don't fit into your plan
You can't make me kill, man
You can't make me kill a man
You can't make me kill and
I won't fight your stupid war
Believe me, I'm not your slave
I won't fight in your war games
The C.I.A. Can't make me play
The world's running into problems now
That doesn't mean we have to fight it out

Well, I don't fit into your plan
You can't make me kill, man
You can't make me kill a man
You can't make me kill and
I won't fight your stupid war
I won't fight your stupid war
I won't fight when there's nothing to fight for
Nothing to fight for
Nothing to fight Fuckin' FOR!!!!!!!!!

Counter Attack


Counter attack! Counter attack!
We've hid underground long enough
They've got power, but not enough
Time to start, time to act
They've got our lives
They've got us trapped
Stab the system in the back!

Face your fears, face the facts
Time to start, time to act
Time to show them that we care
Time to show that we're not scared
Time to show them how to share their money!!
Counter Attack! Counter Attack!

[Cascadian]

54. No draft.

For anybody. Forget it. I will never support any draft.


John

[durutti]

56. Mixed feelings.

On one hand, I feel that women are of course just as capable of serving as men.

On the other, I feel that since women are not guaranteed equal rights (not in practice, at the very least) then they shouldn't have equal responsibilities.

[neverborn]

64. Thought we learned something about ringmaster earlier...

[Freddie Stubbs]

67. What exactly did we learn?

[Eurobabe]

65. market this right up your ass!!

"The agency acknowledged that they would have "to market the concept" of a female draft to Congress, which would have to authorize such a step."

Time to buy that house in Italy.

[noonwitch]

66. Give us ERA, or leave us out of the draft

Voluntary enlistment is one thing-there are women who do want to seek a career in the military.

If we don't get equal status by law, we shouldn't be drafted.

[Pithlet]

84. Exaclty

Some of the "You're a hypocrit if you're against drafting women" is really raising my ire.

[DarkPhenyx]

121. you are a hypocrite if you are against it.

It isn't a difficult concept. It might help if you looked up hypocrite and hypocrisy in the dictionary.

[Mushroom]

133. unclench

You're a man, so that means you've benefited somewhere along the line from women's misfortunes. So in order to get you to stop benefiting, women should be drafted into a man's military to be confronted with more misfortune. oy

[DarkPhenyx]

120. You can't have equal status by law...

...unless you can be drafted.

[Pithlet]

130. Bull

We're supposed to be okay with the draft first, and trust that things will be corrected after?

Look, you can either agree or disagree that the ERA should come first, but you can't call it hypocritical for those of us who think that that little ol' issue of equality should be adressed.

[many a good man]

105. Uncle Sam Wants You

and your children and your grandchildren to serve in liberating Iraq and bringing peace to the region...

[Wind Dancer]

126. I wouldn't hesitate

to move my family to Canada or elsewhere having 3 sons and a daughter. My oldest is gay, I'd be out in a NY minute.

[methinks2]

113. F*****g Bas*****

[DarkPhenyx]

119. Why do you say that?

Because they are attempting to render equality to the draft?

[dawn]

122. I'd never go. I don't support a draft, it's involuntary servitude.

I'd register as a CO.

[Zinfandel]

124. I don't want the Draft...but if there is one, women should be included.

I don't believe in sexism or reverse sexism in any shape or form.

If women are also being considered for the draft that should be correct.

However, once women are in the dialog about a possible draft, it will be against so many religious right and conservatives ideals, that their poor little girl will be drafted and they will be against the draft, along with most liberals and progressives and the draft would never pass, which I'm hoping for...NO DRAFT.

If they flip-flop and just want to draft men...I'm going to be screaming sexism at the top of my lungs!!!!!

[RummyTheDummy]

134. Im within the 25-34 age group and male

Under no circumstances will I ever report to any mass registration of potential draftees either in person or by mail. Under no circumstances will I go in for a physical or participate in any way in the draft process should one be created.

They can go fuck themselves, and after that they can come get me and take me to jail, if they can find me. I care less and less about this country with each passing day anyway.

[Hubert Flottz]

138. Either way dAnn is going!

She's/He's a natural born ciller!

[apnu]

139. Thanks to this story * just lost 2 votes!

Whee!!!! My father-in-law and his wife are die-hard republicans. They also sired 4 girls all of whom are under 30. Now he and his wife are confronted with the possibility that all 4 daughters are up for grabs, plus my self and my sister-in-law's husband. They are livid that their 6 "kids" (They consider us husbands as their children now) may go fight somewhere in the world that looks more and more like Viet Nam every day.

They are particularly worried because they feel that my skills as a computer administrator (Linux and Windows) will some how bump me higher in the draft lottery.

They are actually talking like the draft is here already! My in-laws have now said that they won't be voting for * come November.

I bet if this continues, * and his fellow crooks will yank these draft changes off the table, the reaction to it has not been good.

[gpandas]

143. i don't want a draft ever, but i can think of no logical ...

reason women should be broadly exempt from the draft. especially in these days of equality of the sexes. equal work for equal pay. also i think a lot of freeper types would not be so ready to go to war.

[KoKo]

144. Okay Pacifist Ladies of DU....time to get your passports updated.

I miss the cutoff, but I would be "outta here." Would be happy to volunteer in some way if we had another threat like WWII...but no way in hell I would got to another Vietnam/Iraq fiasco dreamed up by P-Residents who are looking for glory!