"if these men do not die well, it will be a black matter for the king"

[madfloridian]

A powerful column from the religion editor.

http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artikkel?SearchID=73170253278155&Avis=LL&Dato=20040424&Kategori=COLUMNISTS0402&Lopenr=404240310&Ref=AR

SNIP..."Last weekend I watched Laurence Olivier's great 1945 film of Shakespeare's "Henry the Fifth." On the eve of the decisive battle of Agincourt, King Henry walks among his troops in disguise and sits down with three soldiers, who like all soldiers from time immemorial, are musing on the prospect of war, death and its aftermath.

Henry, perhaps seeking to justify what he got these men into, remarks glibly, "Methinks I could not die any where so contented as in the king's company; his cause being just and his quarrel honourable."

One of the soldiers, Michael Williams, replies, "But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in a battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all `We died at such a place;' some swearing, some crying for a surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon their children rawly left. . . . Now if these men do not die well, it will be a black matter for the king that led them to it......"

[symbolman]

1. The more things change

the more they remain the same..

beautiful, I've sent this off to many friends..

thanks

[madfloridian]

2. Thanks. This guy really has a soul. A real Christian.

Since the war he has been really attacked by the fundamentalist element in our area....which is quite large.

[KoKo]

3. Great Post! Thanks floridian. Being reminded that we've been here befor

The only scary part is that Henry was considered a success. But, I've read alot about Henry and Chimp is NO Henry. Henry was educated, played instruments and wrote poetry. The Chimp probably can't even write.

So, while Henry could get away with much because he was educated and intelligent, perhaps the Chimp will have the agony of all those lopped heads and arms joining together in a great chorus to bring him down.

[madfloridian]

5. You are right. No comparison in intelligence levels.

This really moved me.

[doni_georgia]

6. Not to mention in those days the Kings fought as well n/t

[madfloridian]

4. Another religious voice speaks out. "We ran into a big black wall."

http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040501/NEWS/405010329/1037/EDIT

Wavering in War Can Do Good

President Bush says, "We must not waver." For many years we did not waver in Vietnam and we ran into a big black wall. It lists the names of service men and women who died in that conflict. How is it that the foreign ventures of ours do not work out as we hope they will?

REV. HOMER SPENCER

Lakeland
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
It is special to me to see this opposition. I left my Southern Baptist church because of their support of the war.

[loudsue]

7. Yah. Our "king" does a photo op w/ a plastic turkey!

He doesn't disguise himself to hear the "truth" of the soldiers....he PROTECTS himself from it!

Big difference. Big.

:kick:

[Karenina]

8. Staying all the while

"out of harm's way."

[Davis_X_Machina]

9. Been my sig for six months or more.... n/t

[madfloridian]

10. Two letters to the editor about the column....sharp contrast.

Both are at this link. The first is typical of one in denial, the 2nd is from a peace activist here. I would say the letters are running mostly against the war now. That is great for this area.

http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040430/NEWS/404300350/1037/EDIT04

SNIP..."Saturday's "But If The Cause Be Not Good" by Cary McMullen is yellow journalism of the worst kind. In the column he states, "It is likely you will not have seen this in any American newspaper or TV broadcast." That's probably because they want facts to be used instead of giving a voice to a an Internet Web site with a clear pacifist agenda.

The "sources" of the reports on Beliefnet.com are the same "human shields" that went to Iraq to become Saddam's puppets.

Some of the statements appear to be second- or third-hand information. The American soldiers are blamed, so it must be true....."

The 2nd letter is better. It is a little rambling, but makes it point.

SNIP..."Now is the time to examine ourselves and find out what else can be done. Any who ask, "What can I do, what can be done, to end war?" the answers are out there for those who really want to know. An excellent place to start would be "The Third Side" (formerly "Getting to Peace") by William Ury. The sooner everyone understands what is happening and why, the sooner we can get past this "business of war."

Fortunately, war and violence are not the real answer to conflict -- a fact of which the American public is slowly becoming more aware....."