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RebelOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-01-04 10:57 AM
Original message
Photos of a girl being raped by soldiers.
I put this in another thread, but I don't think anyone saw it. This was posted on the AOL message board. Scroll down toward the bottom. It looks like a girl being raped by soldiers. Are they Americans? I don't quite know what to make of it.

http://www.albasrah.net/images/iraqi-pow/iraqi-pow
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-01-04 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
1. looks very incriminating to me...
disgusting.
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markses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-01-04 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
2. I don't think those are real
Edited on Sat May-01-04 11:02 AM by markses
Looks like staged porn. It is a mistake to mix it up with the real photographs, since it has not been authenticated and therefore only lends credibility to the bizarre apologists for the Abu Ghraib outrage, some of whom circulate openly on these very boards.

Once again, that looks like staged porn to me (which I suppose, unfoortunately, will paint me as having extensive experience of such things), and it shouldn't be believed until it is authenticated. I must admit that I didn't take a very close look at the rape photos, finding them repulsive in the extreme, but those guys don't look like American soldiers: check the shoes they're wearing.
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hexola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-01-04 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Agree - typical American porn...(nt)
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freetobegay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-01-04 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #4
13. You ought to see some of that
European porn! Talk about...
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RebelOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-01-04 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. I was wondering if they were Americans or not.
But it really doesn't look like staged porn to me. That girl looks too frightened.
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markses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-01-04 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. It's called acting
I have seen several of these really gonzo porn productions when I was in college, and they look for all the world like real coercion. That's how they sell these things to the fetishists that are into it. I don't think the "frightened" look can seal the authenticity of these photos; you can find 1,000 such frightened looks, I am sure, in a 5 minute Internet search. What seals the staged quality for me is the skillfulness of the camera angles. These are all traditional porn-based camera angles, which I assume require some skill to pull off. My guess is that these were shot either in Mexico or in California, and that one would even be familiar with the actresses and actors if one were an afficianado of the genre.
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Nlighten1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-01-04 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #2
30. This is from a porn flick that is making its way around the Inet.
Not real IMO
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-01-04 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #2
32. ...perhaps freepers trying to throw a curve?
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pippin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-01-04 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
3. this is horrible
please post a warning to those whose stomachs may be sensitive. I was seriously nauseated.
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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-01-04 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
5. Dear gods
Yes, those appear to be American soldiers.
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-01-04 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
6. They're supposedly Americans
It's the first time I've seen the pictures, and I have no idea whether the source is trustworthy. Whether they are or not, I think an investigation is in order. And after appropriate discipline has been handed down, the military needs to address this problem.

I'm not jumping to conclusions here -- not even with the photographs that 60 Minutes found. But the truth must out.

When war is being praised, the word "honor" turns up all the time. Well, this is about honor.

--bkl
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-01-04 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
7. It could also be porn pictures
mixed in with the actual photos from the Iraqi prison.

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Christ was Socialist Donating Member (649 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-01-04 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
9. It looks staged
it has to be authenticated. It resembles staged amatuer snuff films etc. Don't ask how i know, just turn and walk away.
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markses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-01-04 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #9
20. LOL
Yeah, that's the problem. In order to really make the case for the porn-quality of these films, you have to out yourself somewhat as having some experience with the genre. At the end of the day, however, I think most adults are familiar with or know about these genres, even if they aren't into them. The "captured spy S&M" thing is, I'm sure, pretty standard, even though I've never actually seen that particular kind.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-01-04 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
10. One sequence are fake photos
Unfortunately its going to be hard for the Military to explain this to Arabs in the world community.

AS IN GENERAL WHATEVER STATES "Like well the photos of the guys getting oral sex wearing the green uniforms are FAKES, but the pictures of PFC Lynndie England forcing the POW's to give each other oral sex are REAL " how'd you like to stand in front of the press and say that ?

The way to tell is the participants in the fake photos are wearing BLACK BOOTS not desert boots.
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markses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-01-04 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. Hey! Check my post #2 regarding footwear
Great minds think alike!
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-01-04 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #15
21. yikes
But as you point out. The Fakes will also be spread all over the Arab world now..

We are going to have a serious problem with the fakes. The Arab Man on the street has probably only seen this stuff in an underground porn shop. Now it will be Page one from Morocco to Indonesia.
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Waverley_Hills_Hiker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-01-04 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #10
25. green camo in the desert?
Hmmm?
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-01-04 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #25
46. I KNOW /// THE FIRST TIME I SAW IT I SAID WTF !!
Just look back at the pics a year ago
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fishnfla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-01-04 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
11. This has been kicked around before
some poster here said they were old photos, someone said from Bosnia.
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RebelOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-01-04 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #11
22. Today was the first time I had seen them.
They were at the AOL message board, so I thought I would come over here for everyone else's opinions.
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camero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-01-04 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #11
23. Dyn Corp
I had just read something about DynCorp running a prostitution and child sex slave operation in Bosnia. It's still an outrage. The bigger outrage is that DynCorp is still a mercenery contractor and they also operate in Iraq.
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iamjoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-01-04 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
12. Vile
Well, we can plainly see that American soldiers are standing around naked prisoners.

The pictures of forced oral copulation you can see the camouflage, but do other armies use this?

Horrible, whoever (whomever?) the perpetrators are. I thought we liberated Iraq to end this kind of spit.
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-01-04 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. you've got to be kidding....
" I thought we liberated Iraq to end this kind of spit."

Were you really that naive?
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iamjoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-01-04 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #16
47. I Guess So
I'd like to believe Dubya isn't a COMPLETE liar.
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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-01-04 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
17. The ones with women are porn
Some idiot company made an Iraq war rape film last year. It was making the rounds at discussion sites back then.
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hexola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-01-04 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
18. The green fatigues...
We don't wear those anymore, do we?
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-01-04 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #18
24. They are still used
A lot of units used them in Iraq-Nam last year
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stopbush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-01-04 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
19. It doesn't matter whether these particular pix are staged or not.
Edited on Sat May-01-04 11:17 AM by stopbush
What matters is that there is absolutely no doubt that some 17 US soldiers are under investigation for engaging in acts like those depicted the pix. If the soldiers hadn't actually done something similar, the questionable pix would have no place whatsoever in any discourse. But the fact is that OUR soldiers *have* been torturing and humiliating civilians, and that has opened the door to just about everything one can imagine.

The RW will try to establish that some of these photos are fake. They'll then use that to discredit the entire story, thereby exonerating bush (ie: not the soldiers) for their actions. I hope our military can resist the temptation to whitewash yet another military scandal and follows through on this with stiff penalties paid by the perps. The American people need to fully confront just what we are doing in their name in Iraq.

Our focus should be on the actions that took place and the soldiers who engaged in such actions. Even if no *real* pictures existed such inhumane actions still need to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of our laws.
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-01-04 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #19
26. Yeah.
It's amazing how many DUers who seem to be avid porn watchers casually dismiss these pics as staged and the women are "actresses." With rapes ALWAYS happening to innocent women and men during wars, why would you assume these aren't real? Black shoes are not exactly a huge exoneration in my book.
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ihaveaquestion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-01-04 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #19
28. I agree.
The fact remains that the pictures are plausible and will be believed. Can anyone look at them and honestly say that this could never happen because American GIs are have such a spotless record that this is just too ridiculous to believe? Of course not. How many American female soldiers have complained of abuse and rape by their male counterparts - 10, 20, 30? Based on statistics, this means that there are many, many more incidents going unreported.

In general, American attitudes and reputation of treatment toward women, minorities and anyone else without "power" is atrocious. Until this changes, we will not be seen as anything other than brutes and bullies.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-01-04 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
27. doesnt look staged to me
for a lot of reasons
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markses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-01-04 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #27
35. Feel free to go ahead and list a couple
n/t
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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-01-04 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Don't bother
This (WARNING: Graphic XXX site) outfit is the source of the pics.
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markses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-01-04 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. Could you give a bit more on the site
So that I don't have to click the link?
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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-01-04 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. It's a company that trades
in the war rape fetish niche. It's the producer of the videos that the pics at the above link were captured from. Their current free samples include stills with the blond actress.
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Roy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-01-04 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #36
43. Still may not be fake!!!!!
Didn't the prison mistreatment photos come to light because they were being posted on porn sites?

embarrassed to admit it, but I watch a lot of porn, always in the porn movie rape scenes, the female clearly shows excitement and full participation in the act, and even gratitude afterwards.

Every frame on these pics shows and very frightened young woman.
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Habibi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-01-04 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #27
40. I'd have to agree
but then I'm not a big porn aficionada, so I don't know from staged. In any case, how does one *know* the porn flicks aren't just videos of real rapes?
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TexasMexican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-01-04 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
29. Yeah looks fake.
but as others have said it doesnt matter because most muslims will believe they are real.
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-01-04 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
31. Who is this man on the right hand side?

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TroubleMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-01-04 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
33. I truly hope those rape ones are fake

They do look fake to me. Check out the camera angles and how the guys are turning their bodies so you can see the "action" like porn actors do.

In a real rape I don't think that they would worry about "getting the right shot."

Also, where did they get the camera?


I hope I'm right, and I guess it's a biased statement because I'm a former Marine, and I don't want to believe my fellow warriors would do such a thing.

The prison abuse, unfortunately, is real. I've been locked up before, and I've seen how some (not all, just a few) guards absolutely hate prisoners. They think that they're less than human. I'm not suprised that happened, because when you take the leashes off the dogs, they will attack. I could see it in the eyes of some of the guards I saw. I can't imagine how low they would stoop with no restraints on them or no supervision. Compound that with a brutal war, and you've got a terrible situation.

However, I think the rape ones came from "fettish" porn movies.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-01-04 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
34. The photos in question aren't real.
They look fake. I sure hope these aren't being spread around in the muslim world and they think it's real.
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Room101 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-01-04 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
38. Those are fake porn pics- nt
.
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sce56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-01-04 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
41. The Rape ones are fake
The ones using what appears to be woodland green BDU's are not what our troops are wearing in Iraq, They have no name tags or unit patches if this is a real rape I would suggest it is one done in the baltics possibly from the former Yugoslavia wars of the 90's.
As also mentioned the boots are not dessert sand colored boots but they don't look at all like US-GI! And the weapon is not a M16 or it's replacement notice the bolt action style to it. The big problem with this is that the site on the original post is a Arab one that added to the 60 Minute pictures as if the truth was not bad enough already!
<>
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narcjen Donating Member (158 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-01-04 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
42. Holy shit
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-01-04 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
44. these men rape their fellow soldiers
Edited on Sat May-01-04 01:28 PM by seabeyond
it is not a stretch that they would treat the enemy woman at least the same that they treat their sister daughter and mothers they work next to

gosh i dont want to believe dont want to believe dont want to believe

ya right,
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-01-04 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
45. The questionable photos came from this site
Edited on Sat May-01-04 01:31 PM by seemslikeadream
http://www.albasrah.net

http://www.albasrah.net/warcrimes.htm

This seems to be liget

VIDEO EVIDENCE:

video of the testimonies by Geert Van Moorter, Fred & fico

The reality of iraqi children by Geert van Moorter & fico May 03, 2003

An Iraqi ambulance under fire by Geert Van Moorter & fico 2003-05-03

American soldiers shoot at a civilian bus in Iraq by Geert Van Moorter & fico 2003-05-03

Plundering a hospital filmed by Geert Van Moorter, edited by Chlo & fico April 24

American soldiers shoot at a civilian bus in Iraq by Geert Van Moorter & fico 2003-05-03

Plundering a hospital filmed by Geert Van Moorter, edited by Chlo & fico April 24

American's are like a baby by Geert Van Moorter, chlo & fico 2003-04-29

The feeling of an Iraqi doctor by Geert Van Moorter & fico 2003-05-03

We will build it again...and again...and again filmed by Geert Van Moorter, edited by fico & Chlo April 24

La voix des enfants de Charleroi Bagdad by Huito & Fico 2003-04-30

This Dr. seems truthful from the site

Dr Geert Van Moorter, who was 2 months in Iraq during the war, in cooperation with SOS Iraq, has
returned from a six weeks stay in Baghdad. Here is his part of his testimony (translation in
English thanks to the International Action Center).

Greetings.

Dirk Adriaensens.

www.irak.be



Six weeks in Baghdad under the occupation

Exclusive testimony of the Belgian Doctor Geert Van Moorter regarding the U.S. occupation.



Geert Van Moorter, a doctor in the Belgian organization Medicine for the Third World, who was in
Baghdad during the U.S. bombing in April, returned to Baghdad from the beginning of July to
mid-August.

Interview with Doctor Geert van Moorter, of Medicine for the Third World

by Pol De Vos , Parti Du Travail De Belgique
August 20th, 2003


Doctor Geert van Moorter, of Medicine for the Third World, returned a few days ago. He was in Iraq from the beginning of July until the middle of August. He offers us an exclusive insight into daily life under the occupation and the many forms that resistance takes.

President Bush says that life in Iraq is getting better every day. Was that your impression also?

At first you have the impression that things are more or less OK. Life goes on as normal. Many shops have goods for sale. Only the American jeeps strike a jarring note. But after evening falls, the illusion disappears. Before the war, there was a vibrant nightlife in the city. People would talk and laugh in the streets until 1 or 2 in the morning. Now, at night, Baghdad is a ghost town. The Americans decreed a curfew from 2300 hrs on.

I saw very quickly that the population still suffers from the effects of the war. The Iraqis just cant understand why it is that, four months after the official end of the conflict, they still have electricity for only a few hours every day. There are huge problems with drinking water. Fuel supply is still seriously disrupted. Several people said to me that after the devastation of the first Gulf war, when most of the country was still under the control of the Iraqi government, all of these problems had been resolved in less than two months. Today, all of the administrative structure of the country has been turned upside down. Most public services and ministries have stopped functioning. The State enterprises have shut down. Hundreds of thousands have lost their jobs.

http://www.occupationwatch.org/article.php?id=574



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