save me the trouble: what's 'the davinci code' about?

[mopaul]

and what's this controversy i hear about from the religious community concerning the book's theory?

i don't read books anymore, no time.

[Mandate My Ass]

1. SPOILER alert

It's a murder mystery but the subplot is that there exists a secret group which believes that Mary Magdalene was Jesus's wife and she is the "holy grail." She was supposedly pregnant when Jesus died and her bloodline has to go underground because Opus Dei wants them wiped out.

[mopaul]

4. so, jesus & his mom had a baby who went to france?

that's what i heard. and that davinci belonged to this secret society that believed jesus and his mother's child's descendents live in italy today or some such noise

[stopthegop]

9. Mary Magdelene is different woman than Mary mother of Christ

...just a coincidence of names

[Mandate My Ass]

12. Let's just say

I'm glad I got the book as a gift and didn't pay anything for it.

I've heard the theory about Jesus being married before I read the book. THe only interesting part is the biographical info on DaVinci and his paintings, particularly the last supper. Supposedly Mary Magdalene is the red head at the right hand of Jesus.

[SemperEadem]

33. Did anyone see any of the bible docs on History Channel

and Discovery Channel back on Easter Sunday?

There was an indepth look at all things antiquarian biblical on these two networks that night... one of them explored Mary Magdalene's role as one of Jesus' apostles--the notion that Jesus confided more to her about his mission than the dudes--and once he ascended into heaven, how Peter--the first pope of the Catholic Church--basically ran her off from the group because he was jealous and incredulous that Jesus would reveal things to her, a woman, and not him, a man. The rhetoric was picked up and furthered by Paul.

It totally spoke to the roots of the mysogynistic slant of the Christian church. If this is the case, as it seems to be, it's no wonder that women are considered the way they are in society--the first founders of the christian faith built their church upon this sentiment. In fact, the church went so far as to lie about Mary's character, saying she was a prostitute---she wasn't, but they furthered that lie about her for two millenia.

[bobthedrummer]

50. Prior to meeting Jesus, this Mary was a demon-posessed prostitute

according to The Holy Bible. Christ is the victory over human flesh and physical world He triumphs over death, not a God fearin' War President that's got a lot of folks praising the Lord and passing the ammunition doing it all backwards because they're evil too...fools...

[SemperEadem]

32. Two different Marys

However, the premise does speak to the fact that France used to be considered "The First Daughter of the Catholic Church".

[KittyWampus]

2. It's A Jumbled Mass Of Incomplete Information Touching On Esoteric

Christianity/Judaism combined within the Murder Mystery genre.

[stopthegop]

3. based on a theory involving Mary Magdelene and Jesus

being married, having kids..going to Europe...

seems to be largely based on 5-800 years old heresy...there's not much there in reality...

used by some to 'mortalize' Christ...

[mopaul]

10. & mary was the 12th apostle in the last supper painting?

and not john? some say she was the female apostle of the group.
jesus' mother, and greatest supporter, and lover?

who can keep up?

[pezcore64]

16. lol

what dont you understand?
hah
not THE VIRGIN MARY(Jesus' mom), Mary Magdelene!

she was supposedly a prostitute before she met jesus and soon became one his greatest supporters. she was there for his death and his rise on easter. i think she was even suppose to be the first to discover him missing from the tomb?

I believe they hada closer relationship than religious figures would have you believe. goes back to oppressing women. id imagine given the time period and her former activities before Jesus, theyd wanna try to erase her.

while they never called her an apostle(once again going back to sexism), she was supposedly the biggest believer of the group.

Who knows if they had sex or had kids. Regardless the answer would be supressed by the religious hierarchy. lol.

religion is bad. faith is good.

[Stuckinthebush]

23. Not a prostitue

I think that is one misconception about MM.

[pezcore64]

38. indeed

thats why i said 'supposedly'.

there could be many explinations for the way she was shunned by people back in those days. ive heard alot actually. from her pretending to be crazy (as a defense to ward off people, because people were thought 'possessed' by evil spirits when mental problems arose in them) to the whole prostitute theory.
like i say, i think she was labled a prostitute to try and discredit anything she might have had to say.

[Warpy]

25. The Magdalene Gospel

....is somewhere out there on the net with the other Gnostic gospels. I've read it, and it reads like something written by a person who was kept illiterate until rather late in life.

Magdalene was never identified as the "woman taken in sin." That's just more priestly bullshit, smearing a woman. It's what they do best.

Spirituality is great. Religion is garbage that gets in the way of it.

[DoYouEverWonder]

52. The Gospel of Mary

was discovered in the Nag Hammadi library.

Here is a link for some info and text from this document:

http://reluctant-messenger.com/gospel-magdalene.htm

[Wickerman]

11. so, not unlike European Vacation

with Jesus and Mary instead of Chevy Chase and Beverly D'Angelo?

Thanks, seen the movie.
:hi:

[meegbear]

5. From amazon.com

Amazon.com
With The Da Vinci Code, Dan Brown masterfully concocts an intelligent and lucid thriller that marries the gusto of an international murder mystery with a collection of fascinating esoteria culled from 2,000 years of Western history.
A murder in the silent after-hour halls of the Louvre museum reveals a sinister plot to uncover a secret that has been protected by a clandestine society since the days of Christ. The victim is a high-ranking agent of this ancient society who, in the moments before his death, manages to leave gruesome clues at the scene that only his granddaughter, noted cryptographer Sophie Neveu, and Robert Langdon, a famed symbologist, can untangle. The duo become both suspects and detectives searching for not only Neveu's grandfather's murderer but also the stunning secret of the ages he was charged to protect. Mere steps ahead of the authorities and the deadly competition, the mystery leads Neveu and Langdon on a breathless flight through France, England, and history itself. Brown (Angels and Demons) has created a page-turning thriller that also provides an amazing interpretation of Western history. Brown's hero and heroine embark on a lofty and intriguing exploration of some of Western culture's greatest mysteries--from the nature of the Mona Lisa's smile to the secret of the Holy Grail. Though some will quibble with the veracity of Brown's conjectures, therein lies the fun. The Da Vinci Code is an enthralling read that provides rich food for thought. --Jeremy Pugh

The controversy is that the church is afraid people may question the devinity of Jesus.

[joycep]

17. Yes, it seems like some people are going crazy about it.

There are several books out now supposedly proving it is not so. I haven't read the book but I am laughing my head off about the powers that be that are taking this book so seriously. They think it will destroy peoples's faith. I can not imagine all this hoopla over a fiction book.

[keep_left]

29. Right. The Opus Dei types are going nuts.

I think one of the books is called "Decoding DaVinci". Total piece of cr*p that is in fact advertised right on the Opus Dei website!

I call this kind of thing "Little Red Book religion" (i.e. Mao's Little Red Book) because any deviation from ultra-orthodoxy, even in a work of FICTION, is seen as something that cannot even be acknowledged. Hence the Opus Dei "book of banned books" which literally is hundreds of pages long.

http://www.odan.org/forbidden_books.htm

[Tracer]

6. And furthermore...

... it's a poorly written potboiler. Don't waste your time.

[SemperEadem]

35. I haven't read it...

guess I won't, considering the reviews...

However, I do want to read the Magdalene Gospels and any other banned books that are out there. I don't feel the Catholic church has the authority to keep me from reading books like that.

[BabsSong]

7. Loved it and went on to his other books like Angels and Demons, etc.

It's based on 'stuff' I've followed for years. It brings up a lot of those "organizations" we have talked about at DU. First hardcover fiction book I've bought in years. I had been to Paris a couple years ago, so all the things that take place inside the Louve, etc. I can visualize perfectly....now I want to go back. Course now they moved "Mona" to her own room.

[mopaul]

13. my son gave me angels and demons

but i fear i will not read it.

[Bjornsdotter]

34. Read it

Hi,

Just wanted to let you know....while I liked the DaVinci Code, I really, really liked Angels and Demons. I thought it was better.

Cheers,
Kim:)

[Hamlette]

8. caution: spoiler

Jesus was married to Mary Magdalen who wasn't really a prostitute and had children. His decendents are living in Scotland.

Not sure exactly how this contradicts the son of god bit but the church thinks it does. (If god could do the immaculate conception thing and create the universe in 6 days it seems he could make his son fertile.)

[mmonk]

Fiction

[KAZ]

14. Great read, though some aspects are in dispute.

Monica_L describes it perfectly. You'll fly though it. First book my wife started rereading immediately after finishing it. Couple of books coming out now which attempt to debunk.

[Mandate My Ass]

20. Really?

I've always been intrigued with the idea that for whatever reason, the Catholic Church doesn't want it known that Jesus was married. I saw a special about it once on A&E and basically it posited that for Jesus to be addressed as "rabbi" as he was throughout the NT, he would have had to have been married. Only observant Jews were addressed as such and marriage was not an option back then.

Which parts of the book are being debunked?

I thought the murder mystery plot and the secret society stuff came off as contrived but that's just me.

[calimary]

28. What was always stressed to us in Catholic school was a real

disparate philosophy. Jesus was the Son of God. Lifelong bachelor, but fraternized with every sort of human being including the "least of my brethren" - such as tax collectors, lepers, and prostitutes.

BUT... Jesus was also sent here to Earth to live among us AS ONE OF US. To take on the human body and the human condition, and to BE one of us. He came down to this earthly plane to be born of woman, to grow, to share, and to suffer and die - all phenomenons peculiar to the realm of the flesh.

THEREFORE, if He indeed WAS supposed to do that, to "blend in," as it were, and be one of us instead of this big, huge, all-powerful God figure or king or great deliverer as the Israelites were expecting the Messiah to be, WOULD HE NOT have been just a regular kid as a child, and then just a regular teenager as a teen, and then just a regular guy as an adult. Would He not have had the full spectrum of human experience? That's why He was sent down here, instead of arriving in some fiery chariot with angels and trumpets and lightning and thunder and a huge PR show. His mom was a housewife and His dad was a carpenter and He was a kid. He was just another neighborhood kid who probably ran around with a bunch of other kids and played the early version of stickball or kick-the-can or something. Probably got interested in girls when He began growing up, probably had favorite foods, favorite sports, favorite toys, pets, homework, good grades and not-so-good grades, skinned knees, and all that other stuff that goes with just being a fellow human on planet earth. He WASN'T SUPPOSED TO STAND OUT. He was supposed to blend in, and be just like everybody else. THEREFORE, would He not have eventually taken a wife? Would He not have had that entire experience? If not, He would have stood out in ways that were alien to the community, and would have further subverted followers' ability to listen to His message because they'd be distracted by that other strange stuff about Him. The unusual things about Him that people DID remark about, and that got their attention, included His ability to work miracles and to make sense of the holy teachings and to touch the souls of people. It wasn't other, distractive stuff like - gee, why doesn't He get a girlfriend or something?

And yes, the conventions of the time demanded certain things - as Monica points out - even little things like being referred to as "rabbi." It is ENTIRELY conceivable to me that Jesus would have come here to our earthly existence TO LIVE THE ENTIRE HUMAN EXPERIENCE, from birth to death. That means everything. Not just cherry-picked parts. He would have known it all. He would have HAD to. That was the point. Just more to appreciate about Him, in my opinion.

[Yavin4]

39. Just A Thought

From your post:

Would He not have had the full spectrum of human experience? That's why He was sent down here, instead of arriving in some fiery chariot with angels and trumpets and lightning and thunder and a huge PR show.

Maybe if Jesus landed on an aircraft carrier with a huge banner behind him saying, "Mission Accomplished: Son of God".

[KAZ]

37. Not sure on which parts. Haven't read them yet. link

In fact, I just heard about them from a friend today. She mentioned Fr. Greeley(priest and columnist) has some input on one of them. It may follow along the lines of the following "debunking" links.

http://www.epwijnants-lectures.com/davincicode.html
http://www.epwijnants-lectures.com/davincicode2.html

I just purchased "The Gnostic Gospels" to try and get a little more insight. A rather old book, but I need to start somewhere.

[lectrobyte]

15. all the details have been given, I started reading this, but didn't

get too far, way too cliched, terrible dialog, lost interest after 3 or so chapters. It seems to be one of those things that everyone reads because everyone is reading it. Or something.

[Tellurian]

21. agreed. Just a quick read. I'm a die hard Grisham fan

Loved, Runaway Jury. The dialog and suspense is superb!

[mmonk]

18. I personally sudder

at anti-Catholic hate books in the Anglo-American world. Partly because because I grew up Catholic in the bible belt and the hatred is palpable. America has a silent history of religious based murder and though, its a piece of fiction concerning divinity concepts, Catholic organizations are always protrayed as evil. I myself am not religious but know first hand religious hate.

[shrike]

41. I grew up in that kind of environment, too

We were the minorities in town. My sibs and I got referred to as "them Catholics" on the schoolbus. The women of the neighborhood came over to greet my mother when we moved in. When she told them where we went to church, they got up and left, and never returned.
A few years ago my aunt and uncle, who lived in South Carolina, went shopping for cemetery plots. They had a heck of a time finding anyone to take them because no one liked the idea of Catholics in their cemetery.

[Love Bug]

43. Well, then you'll like "Angels and Demons"

because in that book, the Catholic Church is basically the good guys, or at least the entity the protagonist worked to save.

[Bridget Burke]

45. Former Catholic, also raised in the Bible Belt.

They're just jealous. Catholicism has ancient roots and was a great power through the Middle Ages & Renaissance. For all the evils that may have been done, there were more accomplishments. There's also wonderful art & architecture--and mysteries.

Much of Bible Belt Christianity is dumbed-down Calvinism--black & white fundamentalism. Except that many of them still want to omit the blacks! Some of the churches have fine music but all the other arts are discouraged.

Do remind some of these people that--back in history--most of their ancestors were Catholics too.

[LizW]

19. I knew that book was going to cause controversy

There's no way the Christian fundamentalists were going to let it go. Why they couldn't just shrug it off and say, "Ah, it's fiction, it's entertainment," is beyond me.

I enjoyed the book a lot. It was a fine little light read.

Of course, I've read all that "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" and other Priory of Sion stuff too, and Brown weaves all that into the basic mystery story of the book. I think that's the appeal of the novel, that he weaves fiction in with historical fact, plus tons of esoteric conspiracy stuff. It makes people read it and go, "What the hell? Is that TRUE???" I mean, who didn't go look again at Da Vinci's Last Supper to see if that person really looked like a woman? I did. :)

[Stuckinthebush]

24. And it does look like a woman, doesn't it?

What Da Vinci's point was, who knows? But that was interesting.

[LizW]

26. It does!

:)

[LDS Jock]

22. If you have read a lot about Christianity and Paganism

this book doesn't offer too much more to shock you. Of course, the religious reich who blindly follow their faith would never look into the origins, which is why they find it so controversial. This is a fiction book, and while it can make you think, I would hope no one would accept it as the final say on religious matters. If it does, you are no better than the RWers who base their faith on the Left Behind series. All that aside, it is an enjoyable read. I finished it in two days. The ending was a bit of a disappointment to me. There is a movie being made of it, so you could just hold out and watch it instead.

[BabsSong]

27. Add something: It's also about the concept of the "female diety"

and that is what the society Di V and other prominent guys were into. They believed in the "feminine" traced back into religious history and that's why the BOYS of the Catholic Church hunted and prosecuted these societies for years. The glorified women and the Vatican wanted them barefoot, pregnanent and treagted like scum.....get the picture (gees, for a minute there I could have sworn I just described Bush's right wing).....

[mmonk]

30. Plain and simple

The Catholic Church is the boogey man since the middle ages in the western world of Judaism, Protestantism, Protestant Fundamentalism, secularists, etc. It always wrapped in a characature of all type of media and works. Having grown up in the Church, I didn't find it met the caracature very well. There has always been liberals and conservatives in the Church. There has always been conflict within the Church. However, I haven't found it more intolerant than the other religious groups. Maybe that's just my experience. Maybe there is no sexism in Protestantism, Judaism, society and the like. Perhaps there are no intolerant people in others forms of Christianity or Judaism, or society as a whole. Maybe it is the great evil, the anti-Christ, and since I was raised Catholic, myself hopelessly damned and a crazed religious fanatic. Or maybe not.

[Heyo]

31. The DaVinci code....

Edit: I had to change my whole post...

I have been reading all of this controversy lately about this book. And there's a point where I just don't get how there are some people who can be so dense.

It's a work of FICTION. You know?... a made up story!

As stated in the very begining of the book.

What is the point to trying to 'disprove' a WORK OF FICTION?!

It's such a forehead slapper to me.

He's not really claiming the Mary Magdaline/Grail thing, That's just part of the STORY. Yeah I know he aknowldges the theories and such, and there has been such a debate, the book clearly states at the begining that it's a work of fiction and alot of it is made up.

:dunce:

Sorry....

Heyo

on further edit: my ire is not directed towards anyone here

[mmonk]

36. yes

but some confirm their prejudices on fiction. I personally believe in the historical concept of Jesus instead of the mystical and I do believe Mary Magdalene was a compainion of his in some capacity. However, the portrayal of Opus Dei can be used negatively. My question is where are religious oriented fiction books and movies where someone other than Catholics are the bad guys? I'm not defending Catholicism, just wondering. Enjoy the book.

[leftofthedial]

40. lots of good synopses--as for the controversy . . .

Most bible thumpers don't like the superstitions or interpretations thereof that they (or their particular cult leader) didn't think up. Therefore, they attack everyone else's particular superstitions or interpretations of superstitions as heresy.

Typical christian dogmatic bullshit.

Just my $0.02.


FWIW, I enjoyed the book very much.

[truebrit71]

42. Great book, easy read, quick page-turner..

..plus it's always fun to support something that gets the fundies all riled up!!!!

Bottom line is that it posites some theories as to just exactly why the Catholic Church has belittled, marginalized and subjugated women FOR CENTURIES...

THAT is the reason the Catholic church has their panties in a bunch about it..it points out the BLOODY obvious....

[mmonk]

44. So have most mainline religions

not excusing Catholicism which keeps trying to guard the ancient culture from the period. Many societies and religions are still that way. Vent your disdain at them as well.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

49. If it's got the fundies all riled up

then it must be good. :evilgrin:

[mmonk]

46. I also find there's plenty of intrigue

in real life as well when studying ancient Christianity, Mary Magdalene, and also the power struggle among the disciples or apostles. I think that is the time she started being marginalized though it could have occured later at one of the ecumenical councils determining what the Church was to interpret in writings and by word of mouth tradition. At least the book encourages people to ask questions or to check things out for themselves instead of being told what to think or believe.

[UTUSN]

47. Read "Bloodlines of the Holy Grail"

Smoother read than the original "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" and "The Templar Revelation". That is, these others, which came earlier, were hung up about going step-by-step describing their research in excruciating detail, with the HEAVY sense that there was a mystery up ahead to be revealed. Bloodlines covers the same territory, but lays the whole theory out straightforwardly, without hang-ups.

[xultar]

48. Love the siggy! - Reading it now!!! I love it!!! I won't read spoiler

posts I love it so much!

[Az]

51. The evolutionary nature of religions

The story that survives is the one that propogates. Whatever tactics. Whatever events effect. The only thing we know about the religions before us today is that they survived and defeated other beliefs in order to hold their position in our society they do today.

Regardless of whether there is a god or whether Jesus existed or was divine whatever you heard about religion came to you from another person. Thus there could well be a miraculous event at the center of a religion. But what gets to your ears depends on social evolution of religious doctrine far more than the truth of the matter.

During the rise of Christianity there were 100s of sects vying for control of defining the religion. They fought with each other both physically and verbally. It is not beyond expectations that some of these competing story lines survive as echoes within our society. Carried by other less strident tactics than those used by the predominant surviving religious stories.

All this being said it is unlikely that such a structure would have the reach and power suggested by the DaVinci book. Time is merciless to systems that cannot propogate themself effectively. However literature and art do act as amber to perserve some ideas for us to discover in later times.