Should Clinton Shut His Big Fat Mouth--ahhh, book????

[BabsSong]

Did any of you see Crossfire today?? I'm livid. One of the guests was one of our black congresswomen (forgive me--I have such a time putting names to the representatives while can name any Senator--this woman is very, very prominent).

Eventually the questions centered around Clinton's book that will be out just right before the Dem convention. They asked this congresswoman her thoughts on it's timing.

I expected her to say "great--wonderful". Instead she (very under her breath) said "I wish he wouldn't". Later it was said that this is in the hands of the publisher....bullSHIT. Clinton can name his terms---come on, if this publisher passes him up, do you think no one in the whole wide world would publish Clinton's "politics and sex"!!!!!????? Give me a break! BUT, someone could offer Clinton ultra-millions to publish it just as Big John is trying to address the nation and, thus, flush Big John's message into the crapper. If Clinton does this, I hope we as a party make it crystal clear that we would not support Hilary if there was a gun to our head!!!

Clinton can name the terms of publication and have the great effect of publishing this book right BEFORE the repuke convention rather than the Dem Convention and take away from their air time. If he doesn't, it means that the Clintons have been paid mega-bucks to cut into the Kerry convention. If they do, I want to launch right here and right now the anti-Hilary for President campaign. There would be no explanation but upfront money and tyring to run Hil (another disaster for us in the making)if he goes along with this publishing date. I'm watching Clinton---you either postpone this until before Bush is ready to speak or don't you ever, ever, ever lay the shit on me that you are FOR this party.

[robbedvoter]

1. Boy, NYT did a good job on you! How is Clinton's book be bad for

dems and good for W, pray tell?
here's an idea: turn off CNN, listen to Air America - more relevant, more fun and maybe one day you'll be able to tell all them black women apart. (Lyons: with Clinton haters, always check whom else they hate)

[Name removed]

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[lancdem]

10. Let me repeat

The Kerry people support this timing. All they cared about was having it come out BEFORE the convention. BTW, since Kerry evokes Clinton regularly, you think he might actually like having Clinton in the news again before he's about to officially assume the party's mantle?

The book's coming out in late June. The convention's in late July. They're a whole month apart. Kerry will get plenty of coverage.

[brainoverload]

4. Foul ball

BabsSong in no way implied that she/he cannot differentiate between black woman, she/he merely said she/he can't remember representative's name. Yeesh - there are 435 of them you know.

[The Backlash Cometh]

2. I think it's time for us to stand together.

Guys, they demonized Clinton and we let it happen. Today at school some lady came in to drop off papers in my daughter's class (public school) and stayed for the last 30 minutes of the day trashing them and Clinton. She was obviously a right-wing nut. She said that they were going to be a useless generation and that everything started to go downhill with Clinton. She said that they needed to go to Iraq and fight for our country and our freedom and that they probably wouldn't do it.

I think it's time to understand that in attacking Clinton, they have divided us. It's time to throw their hypocrisy in their face. We need to stand together and show them that THEY are the enemy within.

[BabsSong]

5. Backlasj--read---this is not about attacking Clinton; it's about timing

and that's what upset the black congresswoman. Publishing this right before Kerry puts all the media attention on Clinton. And Cliton by Christ has the influence to keep this until right before Repuke Convention. If he doesn't delay it, then you no goddamn well what he is up to. Don't give me the "he can't help it" -- he sure as fuck can.

[Bandit]

9. What was the purpose of mentioning she was a "Black" Congresswoman

What does being black have to do with the message. I find your post almost insulting. Please explain what purpose it served you to say Black Congress woman instead of just Congress woman?

[H2O Man]

Thank you for mentioning

the most glaring problem with this post. The second would be allowing the republicans to define when a Clinton book should come out. The "timing" will not be a problem, even if Rush, Sean, and dick cheney say it is.

[Guaranteed]

41. It was an attempt at identification, because she didn't know the lady's

name.

Give me a fucking break.

[The Backlash Cometh]

23. Thanks for the clarification, but I still don't see the problem.

There is quite a bit of information that I hope Clinton will bring up that will be detrimental to Bush and favorable to Kerry.

But, I'm also sure the Congresswoman was also concerned that the right-wing would go on their anti-Clinton rants which would slurp Democrats back into their shells. I think we should brace for the conservative media onslaught, because you know it will come.

[Book Lover]

6. No, it really is in the hands of the publisher

OK, let me qualify that a bit: it is 99% in the hands of the publisher. You can only copy edit, layout, and print so fast. Plus, consider the number of copies - presses can only run so fast, and presstime is scheduled months in advance. Yes, any publisher would want his book, but someone has it now, and no one is going to stop the wheels once it's in production.

from someone who has been in publishing production waaaaaaay too long...

[BabsSong]

8. BookLover--so you are saying that if Clinton (not your or me with our

noting status) said to the publisher that he wanted it a few weeks later, he just couldn't get his book published??-----hahaha. Right. He can name the terms--that is, unless he wants an umteen million dollar bonus to publish is where it can do the most distraction from the Kerry campaign. See what I mean?? He could make mega-bucks still if he said "I want to do this right before the Bush convention". Don't give me the "but, but, poor Clinton is so helpless in this situation" business. If he choses to upstage Kerry, then he knows exactly what he is up to. This boy ain't no virgin, corporate and political dumb lamb.

[Book Lover]

14. If Bill

went to his agent - his most likely point of contact, not the editor working on his book - and said he wanted it to instock a few weeks later, he would be reminded that the juggernaut of marketing materials has already begun, and he would be reminded of the great cost involved in changing the date. The negotiations would go from there. He would piss off a whole lot of folks, and the publishing company would probably take heat from the printer and the warehouse, screwing up their long-term contracts. The publishing company would weigh that against ceding to Bill's request. The end result would be the product of negotiations. May I also remind you that Bill may also have his reasons for keeping the pub date right where it is.

Contrary to popular belief, authors are not omnipotent gods. I most certainly am not giving you "poor Clinton is so helpless" bulldink. I am telling you what modern trade book publishing is like.

[ldf]

32. you are saying that if Clinton said

you mean release it AFTER the election, when it would no damn good whatsoever?

now THAT makes a lot of sense.

if anything it should make americans long for a time when there was a sense of caring coming out of washington, like, you know, when a democrat was in the whitehouse.

the contrast could not be greater. kerry will take very good advantage of it.

face it, we may never have another clinton. kerry certainly isn't able to fill his shoes. but he will certainly do in the mean time.

[lancdem]

7. BabsSong, please don't take this the wrong way

but your posts are almost always of the sky-is-falling variety. Maybe you're a pessimist by nature, but you need to calm down. Both Clintons are actively working with Kerry; the timing of this memoir is perfect, according to pollster John Zogby, because it will rally the base yet not overshadow Kerry because it's a month BEFORE the convention. Plus, the book is apparently really good.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Book Lover]

19. One more point

Please consider that instock dates are discussed before a book is even launched (that is, before the development of the book begins - after the contract is signed and the author has submitted a few chapters). The book's release date has been planned for a long time - it is not pulled out of the air, or generated based on how long it takes to make the book. We get an instock date and work from there.

[blm]

11. Another doom and gloom, stick a needle in a Dem's eye post as per Babs.

Why am I not surprised?

[Name removed]

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[lancdem]

18. Why do you keep repeating that insulting phrase?

[blm]

26. Why in the world do you post the way you do?

Noone says the things you accuse them. You post only depressing or pointedly negative anti-some Dem remarks.

Sorry, but, they stink up the place.

[KoKo]

46. What an unkind reply. I've read some of Babs Songs posts and they are

not at all what you say. I disagree with this one, and wonder why she was so worked up, but I'm not going to attack her as you did here.

[KoKo]

55. Were you replying to the "delete" or to Babs Song?

I alerted on you but might have been mistaken. Just so you know.

[blm]

59. You may not have caught the deleted message.

It was wholly inappropriate using HIGHLY inflammatory language. But, the post was from the OP.

[KoKo]

60. I apologize. If it was another poster troll then it was deserved.

I withdrew my alert from the mods.

[Spazito]

15. LOL and too true

*

[deacon]

16. if i am not mistaken, the book was supposed to be released last august

not positive about this, but if they want it out in june now, i would say it is well planned out.

[BabsSong]

22. apparently the dem mainstream isn't happy with it's timing..........

..what is the problem with postponing it until Bush is ready to speak. What would the media focus on: Bush's umpteenth excuse for Iraq or the Sex Boys memories??? Clinton could take the focus off of Bush in an instant. But this way, he takes it off of Kerry. Think about it. Which is better and more beneficial to our party. I guess that congresswoman just either doesn't think clearly or didn't get the memo.........and why did the audience cheer her??--I guess they need to be enlightened by the DU, poor dumb fools.

[blm]

53. The RNC would LOVE it if Clinton tried to upstage Bush at the Convention.

That way they could make the headlines all about Bush and Clinton and step all over Kerry's post convention push. A fool could realize that.

[lolly]

57. That would explain why

They keep trying to scare everybody away from publishing it.

They're warning us because they're really, really worried that the Democrats will make a mistake here and they certainly don't want that to happen . . .

Good thing we have the RNC and Tucker Carlson to give advice to the Democrats about how to run the campaign. Why, we'd make no end of mistakes without their guidance.

[blm]

62. heh...

I see we're in sync.

;)

[freetobegay]

20. Good for Bill Clinton!

Fuck them all is the attitude he should have!

[goclark]

58. Don't Mess With My Bill!

IMO, he has earned the right to have his book come out on Christmas day if he wants it to, we owe this man. He made our lives a whole lot better for eight years.

He is a superb communicator and when ever he gets in front of a TV set it is majic to the press and to the public. I don't think that he will say anything but GOOD things about our party and about Kerry.

Don't mess with my Bill please!
:loveya:
:loveya::loveya::loveya::loveya::loveya::loveya:

[Spazito]

21. Interesting that you would slip in rw crap about Bill fronting for "Hil"..

as you attack Clinton and point out, repeatedly, the race of the congresswoman who expressed her opinion on an inconsequential CNN infotainment show.

[Name removed]

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[Spazito]

25. Just a piece of advice...

insulting people doesn't garner support, you might try putting your argument forward and debating other opinions without crass insults, you might get further. Obviously people did read what you said, they responded as much to your tone as your content. If you think people are not responding to your message, I suggest you might change your tone but I won't hold my breath on that one.

[BabsSong]

28. Spaz--worked with a lot of school marms in my time and this

sounds so typical. Please, if we have something to say, let us be "appropriate" (translation: don't rock the boat). Guess I should start a thread on the "right to choose" and say "we must come together and think about the thoughts of the fetus before we judge on this issue"!!! I'm sick of inaction and I'm sick of members of our own party jerking us around and screwing us. Stay out of this Bill---stay out of it. This is neither the right time nor the right place. THIS IS KERRY'S MOMENT--and if you can't see what Clinton is doing, you are blind and will be ringing your hands in November discussing on this board "why we didn't win". Clinton does NOT fit into a winning strategy on this point. He should be out campaigning for Kerry and keep his book until it can do the most diverting the attention damage. And that is right BEFORE Bush NOT right BEFORE Kerry.

[lolly]

27. One favor

Could you please find out who this congresswoman was?

You say she's your congresswoman; look her up on the internet and give us her name instead of demeaning epithets.

More info on the context, possible links on more info on the original interview in the opening post would also be appreciated.

As it is, it seems like we're arguing without much real substance.

[BabsSong]

29. She's not my congresswoman--that's why I can't remember her name

She's one of the ones you see repeatedly on tv spots. I guess if I can't come up with her name that means she doesn't exist. Go live in your denial world. Short, almost shaved head. Articulate. I guess unless I can give a name it means I LIED. Yep, I put this here assuming that no one saw that mainstream program "Crossfire"---I was trying to lie to you ...yep. Stop lying to yourselves. She did not make a big thing about this...she simply stated she wished he wouldn't do it and I assumed that a Dem grilled on it would say "oh, that's just fine". Apparently the Dems are NOT happy about this. Thus I ask WHY the Hell is Clinton doing it?? Is it necessary for me to put in an hour to find her name to prove that I'm not lying??? You guys are priceless and in denial.

[0007]

30. Sounds like a plan to me!

[lolly]

51. Yeah, and

The "Sexboys" comment was cute too.

If Clinton is so bad, why did he win? Twice? Why did his approval rates go up during the whole impeachment fiasco?

Republicans focus on the whole sex thing because they want everybody to forget everything else that happened during his presidency.

Are they succeeding?

[rock]

31. Another non-issue

Release of Clinton's book has no bearing on the presidential election.

[Generator]

34. I find this comment laughable

Even if it's true to most people, around here, many of you spew venom at every comment anybody in the media makes, such as Aaron Brown or Lester Holt meaning they are WORKING for the GOP. You analyze every book and tidbit that comes out and how it will effect the election. Hey I do too.

I would grant that possibly everything has SOME effect on the election. Many people do not like Clinton. (Gasp even life long Democrats) Even though compared to Bush he seems like the greatest man that ever lived. STILL he didn't do Gore any favors, now did he? I'm sorry, but with Clinton, it does all seem to be about Clinton. I see Babssong's point, and I think it's a valid one.

[lolly]

40. He tried to help Gore

Gore was the one who fought against Clinton campaigning for him.

Why is it "all about Clinton?"

Or are we forgetting that Clinton has proven he can beat these guys--twice? Three times, if you count the impeachment silliness.

Kerry knows that--that's why he's working with Clinton.

Assuming Clinton's book does come out in June--a month before the Convention--what's the problem? Everybody reads Clinton's side of the story. Starts to remember how good things used to be when the rest of the world liked us and our boys weren't coming home in coffins every day and we had jobs.

Then the convention--everybody's in the mood for a new Democratic Presidency, and Kerry's there to bring it to them.

OK, not inevitable. But at least as possible, if not moreso, than the opposite theories.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

33. Eleanor Holmes Norton.

and the date Clinton's book is released is a total non-issue.

[KoKo]

48. I hear June releast date. Dem Convention is July 26. Plenty of time to

have the "one week of fame" these books get. It will be all over well before the convention. I disagree with your comments about Clinton and the timing, but wouldn't worry about it because it shouldn't have an impact so far ahead of the convention.

[lolly]

35. Here's the entire exchange

CARVILLE: Our guests, Indiana Republican Congressman Mike Pence and D.C. Delegate to the Congress Eleanor Holmes Norton.

CARLSON: Now, Ms. Norton, as you know, former President Clinton's memoir is due out. It's going to be hundreds of pages long. They have printed more than one million copies and it's coming out the last week in June, in other words, right before John Kerry's coronation as his party's candidate. Why doesn't Clinton delay until after the election? Instead, he's stealing the spotlight from Kerry.

NORTON: Actually, I wish he would, but it's probably not his decision. And I know there's a publisher somewhere out there saying this is the time to put it out. And I hope the president can prevail upon them to wait.



This is why I wanted the context.
Rep. Norton answered a question FRAMED completely by the right-wing--which is constantly telling Democrats what they SHOULD do. (Doesn't anybody ever wonder why they always want to give us advice about how to run our campaigns?)

This answer--what, 3-4 sentences?--doesn't speak for Kerry, doesn't speak for the entire Democratic Party. From the transcript, it looks as if Norton was almost blindsided by the question. Had she had time to consider it, she would probably have recognized that the whole premise was framed not by the Democrats' best interests, but by the Republicans and their smarmy assumptions about Bill Clinton.

Kerry and Clinton are working together. Carlson does not have our interests at heart. Why are we letting him set us up this way?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

36. I've yet to see a positive comment about a Dem from BabsSong

although she did call "that black woman" prominent.

[BabsSong]

39. lolly--you had to see it--she was not blindsided AT All... she drew

tremendous applause throught her appearance. She sincerely doesn't want him to publish it at this point.

[lolly]

45. Yes

And the transcript notes the applause she got throughout the rest of the interview--which was about Kerry and his votes.

She ably defended his (and her own) votes. She was clearly prepared for this, and handled the ugly insinuations about Kerry's supposed "flip-flopping." I'm sure she expected this.

The stuff about Clinton's book came after a commercial break--after the main part of the interview was over. A promotion for Wolf Blitzer--who was doing a whole piece on that horrible icky Clinton upstaging Kerry--was announced, and then BAM--they hit her with 1st, a bald statement assuming that Clinton is out to sabotage Kerry (wtf??)and then ask her if that bothers her.

Again, where does it show in her comments that she's representing Kerry's beliefs? Or that of all/most/some other Democrats?

[Generator]

42. If Clinton is such a hero to you guys

Where the hell is he, saying hey, I was impeached for lying about sex, why isn't Bush being impeached for lying about going to war? Huh? Where's that speech????????????

Clinton could rip the shit off this bs facade of a government if he wanted to, because the media will listen to him. But I haven't heard a peep. Oh, is that because he has to protect Hillary's future prez bid so she can insure that we get another eight years of people like Bush? The Clinton's aren't doing us any favors. Look at Hillary, "not sorry" about her Iraq vote.

[lolly]

49. You're So Informed About What Clinton is Doing?

Can you name any of the places he's spoken in the last few months? What he's said?

Go on your search engine and follow his activity, then discuss what he's actually done instead of what you think he is or isn't doing.

[Generator]

52. Please post the speech Clinton made implying Bush should be impeached

I guess I have to search google to find it, huh no it would be the front page of every paper and every news show. Here's the point, you want to defend, Clinton, FINE.

I want Bush out of office. That's a little more important to me.

In fact, I think many of our lives depend on it. If this book helps Kerry defeat Bush, yeah! If it takes media away from Kerry, nay!

It aint that hard to understand.

[KoKo]

56. The media won't take anything Clinton says as serious. He can't "blow the

face off this administration," much as we would like him to. He has enough sense to know he needs to lay low and not comment out loud to a press which is totally controlled.

I give him credit for doing it in a "book" the way others whose voices can't be herd in our media are doing.

I'll wait until the book comes out and I read it before I start getting angry with him for not speaking out. :eyes:

[amazona]

37. you're obviously not in the publishing industry

The publisher decides when a book will be published. The writer does not decide. Period. The contract was signed and the publication schedule set quite a long time ago, by the way. Years ago.

Clinton is doing absolutely nothing improper in honoring his contract and finishing his writing assignment on time.

To be upset with him for doing his job and honoring his contract is completely irrational.

Believe you me, I wish writers DID enjoy the kind of power you suggest. I am a writer. I would settle for being able to pick my own book titles. Ha! If you knew how little control writers have over their product, you would have kittens, is all I'm saying.

[Name removed]

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[BabsSong]

43. John boy--you might want to read the new Time magazine which

is usually very pro-Dem and then talk about doom and gloom. And I'll bet you'll be one of the first in November to cry in your beer of why we didn't win...right?? Go read. "Kerry's Silent Spring--the most scleroic campaign since Dole"................shhhh, don't let it out but other's are noticing. And Time wasn't the only one in the last week. We have a problem. The Kerry camp is reverting to the DLC/Clinton people and pushing out Mary Cahill (who saved his butt in Iowa)and the people they denote as from the "Kennedy office". Keep your head firmly in that sand, boy....it will save you a lot of pain. AND WHAT CAN WE DO?? We can stop acting like stupid assholes and bitch and complain and put pressure on this Kerry campaign to wake up and retool. Or like Scarlett, is that something you prefer to "think about tomorrow"...............???

[librechik]

44. izzignorizzoriffic!

Bizzeye

[lolly]

50. TIME is pro-dem?

Part of the vast "SCLM," if you ask me.

[TruthSeerUmm]

47. Clinton will be fine. He'll leave the nasty crap out of the book

There's no way he'll publish all that Monica garbage for the republicans to latch on to. The book will highlight the good side of liberalism and bring most Americans into the fold just like he did as President.

[KoKo]

54. I'm betting he will have some "bombshells" to the RW, also.

I have high hopes for this book, if Clinton will finally come out and say what the "deal" was that the RW did really have a "vast conspiracy" against him.

[blm]

61. That was outlined in books by Brock, Conason and Blumenthal.

We don't need Clinton to verify what we already know to be true and documented. It might diminish his greater message if he got caught up in that vein.

Actuually, I don't think it's Clinton's style to rehash that. He was always way more of a policy wonk than a gossip.

[KoKo]

64. I don't think that Mellon-Scaife was gossip, though, and he certainly

could give an inside view about how they operated to bring down his presidency and destroy his relationship with congress better than even Conason, Lyons, Alterman and the rest could.

I would also hope he could get into Iraq and the Middle East and how he delt with it as contrasted with the Chimp's non-policy.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

63. S.O.S....S.O.S....S.O.S.