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You have to read this article- un-fucking-believable!!!!

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ringmastery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:29 PM
Original message
You have to read this article- un-fucking-believable!!!!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A39836-20...

With skillful use of language and images, President Bush and his aides have kept the American public from turning against the war in Iraq despite the swelling number of U.S. casualties there.

Even with the loss of more than 700 U.S. troops in Iraq, recent uprisings against the U.S.-led occupation there, a dwindling number of allies and the failure to find weapons of mass destruction, a majority of Americans still believe that going to war in Iraq was the right thing to do. By 52 percent to 41 percent, Americans trust Bush more than Democratic challenger John F. Kerry (Mass.) to handle the Iraq situation, according to last week's Washington Post/ABC News Poll -- a double-digit improvement for Bush from a month before.

Political strategists and public-opinion experts say a good part of this resilience of public support for Bush and the Iraq war stems from the president's oratory. They say Bush has convinced Americans of three key points that strongly influence overall support for the war: that the United States will prevail in Iraq; that the fighting in Iraq is related to the war against al Qaeda; and that most Iraqis and many foreign countries support U.S. actions in Iraq.

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fishnfla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
1. I think Milbank is pulling our leg
hahaha, capitulation is a riot!
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Nlighten1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. He has to be...
because that way of thinking is insane.
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kalian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
2. Truly unbelievable....
so, now shrub is being equated to a great orator.... :eyes:
Amazing the world we live in, no?
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coloradodem2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
4. You have got to be kidding me.
People have started turning against the war. Not many support our actions and most countries want Bu$h gone. If they believe this or purport this bullshit, then they are really stupid. That is un-fucking-believable.
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cdeca Donating Member (41 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. RU peeing on me?.......
Oh no. It must be raining.
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Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:34 PM
Response to Original message
5. who the fuck is their polling sample? n/t
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deacon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. they polled Bandar's family n/t
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Kadie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
6. I couldn't get past the headline
Bush's Oratory Helps Maintain Support for War

I'm sorry, but I can't see how the man could talk himself out of a paper bag. Must be something else going on, not bushie's ability to communicate.


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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Anyone who saw even two minutes
of that embarrassing and ridiculous press conference could easily see that! Trouble is, most 'Murikans were too busy calling the stations because American Idol had been preempted for the conference.
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Kadie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #6
17. I looked up Oratory in dictionary. hmmmm
Oratory-1 1. The art of speaking effectively in public.
2. Rhetorical skill or style.

Oratory-2 A place for prayer, esp. a small private chapel.

So let's eliminate The art of speaking effectively in public.

So then I look up Rhetoric. 3. Showy, bombastic language.

So that leaves he has skill in showy, bombastic language. um. OK

So then I look up Bombast. Flamboyant, pompous writing in a speech. hmmmm

Then, Pompous. 1. Suggesting ostentatious display.
2. Marked by pretension or self-importance.
hmmm

As I said, I couldn't get past the head-line, I didn't read the article, but one word set me off. OK, I will put down the dictionary now, and no more wine for Kadie tonight.

:-)
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JohnOneillsMemory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-04 01:46 AM
Response to Reply #17
25. Read this about the technique of verbal abuse reviewing his SOTU speech!
Edited on Sun Apr-25-04 01:58 AM by JohnOneillsMemory
What the WashPost is gently hinting at is the way that * ties people's minds up in knots with a calculated technique of manipulation, exactly what we all here already know.

THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT TO READ.
This is an analysis of his 2003 State of the Union Speech with a breakdown of the verbal techniques used to abuse, subjugate, and decieve with propaganda:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/130534_focusecond...

>snip<

What is overlooked is his mastery of emotional language -- especially negatively charged emotional language -- as a political tool. Take a closer look at his speeches and public utterances and his political success turns out to be no surprise. It is the predictable result of the intentional use of language to dominate others.

Bush, like many dominant personality types, uses dependency-creating language. He employs language of contempt and intimidation to shame others into submission and desperate admiration.

While we tend to think of the dominator as using physical force, in fact most dominators use verbal abuse to control others. Abusive language has been a major theme of psychological researchers on marital problems, such as John Gottman, and of philosophers and theologians, such as Josef Pieper.

>snip<


Bush uses several dominating linguistic techniques to induce surrender to his will. The first is empty language. This term refers to broad statements that are so abstract and mean so little that they are virtually impossible to oppose. Empty language is the emotional equivalent of empty calories.

Just as we seldom question the content of potato chips while enjoying their pleasurable taste, recipients of empty language are usually distracted from examining the content of what they are hearing. Dominators use empty language to conceal faulty generalizations; to ridicule viable alternatives; to attribute negative motivations to others, thus making them appear contemptible; and to rename and "reframe" opposing viewpoints.

>snip<

Poll after poll demonstrates that Bush's political agenda is out of step with most Americans' core beliefs. Yet the public, their electoral resistance broken down by empty language and persuaded by personalization, is susceptible to Bush's most frequently used linguistic technique: negative framework. A negative framework is a pessimistic image of the world. Bush creates and maintains negative frameworks in his listeners' minds with a number of linguistic techniques borrowed from advertising and hypnosis to instill the image of a dark and evil world around us.

Catastrophic words and phrases are repeatedly drilled into the listener's head until the opposition feels such a high level of anxiety that it appears pointless to do anything other than cower.

Psychologist Martin Seligman, in his extensive studies of "learned helplessness," showed that people's motivation to respond to outside threats and problems is undermined by a belief that they have no control over their environment. Learned helplessness is exacerbated by beliefs that problems caused by negative events are permanent; and when the underlying causes are perceived to apply to many other events, the condition becomes pervasive and paralyzing.

>snip<

Bush's political opponents are caught in a fantasy that they can win against him simply by proving the superiority of their ideas. However, people do not support Bush for the power of his ideas, but out of the despair and desperation in their hearts. Whenever people are in the grip of a desperate dependency, they won't respond to rational criticisms of the people they are dependent on. They will respond to plausible and forceful statements and alternatives that put the American electorate back in touch with their core optimism. Bush's opponents must combat his dark imagery with hope and restore American vigor and optimism in the coming years. They should heed the example of Reagan, who used optimism against Carter and the "national malaise"; Franklin Roosevelt, who used it against Hoover and the pessimism induced by the Depression ("the only thing we have to fear is fear itself"); and Clinton (the "Man from Hope"), who used positive language against the senior Bush's lack of vision. This is the linguistic prescription for those who wish to retire Bush in 2004.

Renana Brooks, Ph.D., is a clinical psychologist in Washington, D.C. She heads the Sommet Institute for the Study of Power and Persuasion (www.sommetinstitute.org ) and is completing a book on the virtue myth and the conservative culture of domination.


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Moderator DU Moderator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-04 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. JohnOneillsMemory
Per DU copyright rules
please post only four
paragraphs from the
news source.

Thank you.

DU Moderator
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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-04 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. That is a great piece
Thanks for posting it.

Click the link, well worth the read.
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PROGRESSIVE1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:39 PM
Response to Original message
9. Milbank is a mediawhore!!! WTF?????????
Bush CANNOT complete a sentence!

:wtf:
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Redleg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
11. Bush' s mastery of deceit is more like it.
Edited on Sat Apr-24-04 10:43 PM by Redleg
I don't disagree that Bush's words have shaped perceptions about Iraq. But it's not his oratorical skills unless we've become a much dumber nation that I thought.
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cornfedyank Donating Member (642 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
12. what's the surprise?
Edited on Sat Apr-24-04 10:47 PM by cornfedyank
I. Every object in a state of uniform motion tends to remain in that state of motion unless an external force is applied to it. --Sir Isaac Newton with a little help from Galileo Galilei.

i guess it works with things as little as thoughts.
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No2W2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:49 PM
Response to Original message
13. Wow, things are going great
on parallel Earth!
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
14. don't dismiss this out of hand
there's a huge difference between being a "good" orator and being an "effective" orator.

everyone recognizes that shrub stumbles through any sentence. but most people look past that.

when they hear shrub speak about iraq, they hear the confidence in his mission, the confidence in our success, the confidence in finding the wmd.

then they hear the mighty wurlitzer supporting him.

it's not pretty, but it IS effective.
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Norquist Nemesis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
15. Millbank's not whoring in this piece
He's saying the Bush has hoodwinked the masses with rhetoric and they've been more than happy to eat it by the spoonful.
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Redleg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. That was my perception of the article.
Of course the dummies who love Bush won't be bright enough to see that theme.
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fishnfla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Its very subtle
but its as you say.....
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rolodomo Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
18. Nice job press...
Thanks for letting the hen house door open and now blaming the hens for getting eaten by the fox. Incredible. It is called propaganda, you dumb ass Washington Post and guess what, just like always, propaganda is very effective when the press does nothing about it (or even actively abets it).
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OHdem10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Does Milbank not listen
to the Fox Station. The WH Propagandists have some spinning tale every day on Hanisty, Beltway boys on weekends. They turn lemons into lemodande everyday for him. Sometimes there are whole shows.
Then there is Limbaugh and Righ Wing Radio screaming the Rove line of the day. All day long on Fox, we are told how great George Bush.
is. Often CNN and MSNBC get sucked into the WH spin Machine.

Is Milbank serious??? Or did K Rove co-opt him too?
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rolodomo Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Yep, Milbank left that part out too...
maybe the Georgetown cocktail circuit is getting a little bit hectic these days? My dear boy, I have no time for the telly, dinner at eight with Condi. Tutaloo.
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maggrwaggr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
21. the media has let him do this with the "war on terror" thing
Even Dan Schieffer the other night was equating "the war on terror" with the war in Iraq.

Disgusting. I've been watching Dan Schieffer since I was still sucking my thumb. I thought he was smarter and better than that.

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Selwynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 11:47 PM
Response to Original message
22. I think he's absolutely right.
Oh ...sorry I mean Bush is toast! :eyes:
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DrZhivago Donating Member (234 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-04 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. I think there is a high degree of sarcasm in that article
Edited on Sun Apr-25-04 12:12 AM by DrZhivago
that could be interpreted a million different ways. Either the man is cynical genius or a deluded dunce and either way his job seems to be to perpetuate the myth, which in turn exposes the fact there is a myth in the first place.
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guajira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-04 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
27. It's Very Simple - Bush* Lies
And Democrats let him get by with it!

Have Dems made it clear to "Murkins" that Iraq is not connected to 9/11 or al qaida??

We have to recognize that the media is not going to inform the citizens, we have to do it. Getting Dems on TV to set the record straight, our Letters to Editor in our local papers, emails to idiots like Paul Bejala who is constantly saying what a nice guy B* is, telling everyone we know that Iraq is an invasion for oil, in other words, refuting all of B*'s lies!!

And...We need a good campaign slogan pointing out what a liar B* is!

Something like - Bring honesty back to WH, vote for Kerry!
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-04 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Its all BS, todays poll indicate the worst numbers for Bush(CNN only 12%
believe Bush is handling Iraq in a good manner).

The Pubs want to brainwash us man. They pulling out all stops.
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