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Centre_Left Donating Member (129 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 06:06 PM
Original message
Tillman = just another "dumb jock"
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/04/286523.shtml

Whatever happened to not speaking ill of the dead?

While I certainly understand some (but not all) of the reasoning underlying the negative comments about Tillman, criticizing him is 1) a conservative politician or blogger's wet dream and 2) a sign that some people's hatred of Bush and the war has paradoxically clouded their sense of basic decency and respect.

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Toucano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
1. Proves the right doesn't have a monoply on ignorance. n/t
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
2. This guy's a damn fool
and I repudiate his despicable remarks. There are so many people who do deserve criticism, such as the chickenhawks in this administration and the neo-con keyboard peckers, not this man who bravely stood up and fought for what he belived in. I don't approve of what Confederate soldiers fought for, but they fought bravely for a cause they believed in, and they were honorable men.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
3. Tillman was summa cum laude.
From what I understand, the guy not only was a darn good football player, he graduated at the top of his class.

He also was an outstanding soldier and American.

BTW: A hearty welcome to DU, Centre_Left. Where ya been?
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #3
15.  3.8 GPA in Marketing
:-)
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #15
33. Wow! Loyal, too.
Tillman, from what I understand, was offered $9 million to jolt the Cards for another team in free agency. The guy declined, citing his loyalty to the Arizona fans who'd backed him and the team. He signed for, like, $3 million with the red birds.

Truly a great loss -- for his family and friends, football and our country.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. He was a good guy - and a loss- but the PR is about lucky rich guy chooses
non-rich life - and then dies.

He and his brother are good kids.

The media response is interesting - not that we should not lament his death - just that the other 800 American dead received no such lament - and Iraqi dead were/are not noticed (the Pentagon's we do not count enemy dead).

In any case he was a good kid and both gifted with smarts and gifted with athletic ability.

Sad.
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. wow not just for his cuontry but in sports too
shame that the good die young.
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leetrisck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
4. Nice article about him but the title doesn't
seem to belong there. Pathetic to say the least if someone calls him that. By the way, he won't even be counted as one of the dead - no one is counting those from Afghanistan. Pretending they never existed. There have been well over 100 killed there.
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LittleApple81 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #4
17. I think the title does not match the article. I went to the
Washington post and could not find an article with that title, or an article with that date written by Barbash.
It is a stupid title. Tillman deserves respect for his convictions; he really did believe he was defending the US.
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. "Portland Indymedia" is the culprit
The ridiculous "dumb jock" comment is just the title applied to the Washington Post article by Portland Independent Media Center. You can see that the original Washington Post article was titled: "Former NFL Safety Is Killed in Afghanistan"

Original WPost article HERE
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sugarman Donating Member (96 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
5. I went to high school....
...with Pat Tillman. He wasn't a dumb jock....
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #5
24. In San Jose's East Valley?
Edited on Sat Apr-24-04 07:03 PM by TahitiNut
Up to a little over a year ago, I lived less than 10 miles from there (Leland HS), in East Los Gatos. Hello, former neighbor!
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sugarman Donating Member (96 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. what's up
I live in Boston now...but I go home often...maybe when did you graduate high school...
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. Silicon Valley became (and still is in my heart) my home in 1983 ...
... long after I graduated from college. No other place in the US do I find as compatible with my values and preferences ... in terms of people, climate, geography, and just about every other measure.

I love it there.

I've had to move back to Michigan to give my support to my recently widowed (for the 2nd time) mother. There's very little I like about Michigan that I didn't like better about the Bay Area.
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cjbuchanan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
6. Proves that some people are just jerks
I am not going to look at the political background of each soldier that dies to decide if I will morn her or him, that's just foolish. The man died fighting under our flag and we must honor him.

As far as the media coverage, yes they should be covering every death as much as his. We should not blame Mr. Tillman because the media is sharing his story and not the stories of others.
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alcuno Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
7. Probably conservatives pretending to be liberals.
Then they can act all outraged about what's been posted.
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Toucano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. That's a good point
Didn't they just get fined for pretending to be Democrats?
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Doomsayer13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
8. disrespectful and disgusting
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sugarman Donating Member (96 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
9. He grew up in San Jose...
Edited on Sat Apr-24-04 06:18 PM by sugarman
...and he def. was very open minded to different cultures. My high school was half Asian and half white, with many Chinese, Indians, Iranians. He was cool to all people when many dumb jocks were dicks...
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alcuno Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
10. Tillman apparently used a 200 ft tower at ASU for meditation.
Sounds like he was a very deep and interesting guy.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
sugarman Donating Member (96 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Hey misinformed individual...
that's not nice...
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alcuno Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #14
26. Are you talking to me?
If so, about what?
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sugarman Donating Member (96 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. sorry
Edited on Sat Apr-24-04 07:29 PM by sugarman
I thought you were being sarcastic...it was a knee jerk response. There's a lot of negativity on the death of Pat. It's pissing me off...
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alcuno Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #27
37. That's all right. I graduated from Arizona State.
And the story about the tower is apparently true. He sounds like he was a truly fine man.
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Must_B_Free Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
12. This is another "dumb post"
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Piperay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
16. Incivility
even to the dead seems to be the new way of doing things and it stinks. :puke:
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w13rd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
18. I'm not one...
...to usually be seen as "pro-military" or "pro-jock", but Tillman gave up a lucrative career to put himself in harms way to do what 90% of the US population was clamoring for, but few were willing to actually do. That's a hella lot more sacrifice than Bush's "Go Out and Buy Shit" called for, and worlds more than most of the Congressional reps, Bush's cronies and cabinet, and the whole of the Republican party manage.
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
19. The headline writer is scum
who died inside a long time ago.
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LittleApple81 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
20. I WANT TO REPEAT IT: The title and the article don't match. Do
you think they meant it as irony? But this post is misleading because by reading the heading it implies that the poster agrees with the title.
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. Portland IndyMedia Center web poster is culprit
I don't know WHAT this thread's originator intended with the inflammatory title, but whoever posted the WPost article to the Portland Independent Media Center's website did little for my opinion of him/her, their website, or their cause.

    Here's the original WPost article LINK

In my opinion, Mr Tillman *was* heroic, but his mistake was believing that he'd be fully-supported by his Commander-in-Chief. How many of the coalition and civilian dead between Afghanistan and Iraq would still be with us if * had remained focused on stabilizing Afghanistan and extinquishing Al Qaeda?

I think that it's certainly safe to say that Hosni Mubarak would NOT have been quoted this past week as saying, "Today there is hatred of the Americans like never before in the region."

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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
22. I agree whole heartedly.
I do not see any good reason to do that to Tillman.
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DianeG5385 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
23. I actually think this guy stood for the best of America
He forwent riches for the good of the country and he believed that he was being told the truth. He IS a HERO because he thought he was working for the good of America. It's just too bad that the gang that sent hm there and will profit from the symbolism of his death, (ugh), and get reflected glory when the only good man is now in his grave and the quavering idiots that sent him to his death are beating their chests!! Enough to make one nauseous!
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drumwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 07:31 PM
Response to Original message
29. Tillman was not a dumb jock. Want to see a REAL dumb jock?
Edited on Sat Apr-24-04 07:37 PM by drumwolf
How about Simeon Rice, the MENSA member who once played with Tillman in the Cardinals and is now with the Tampa Bay Bucs. In early 2003, he was on Jim Rome's radio show and made a bunch of comments about Tillman which essentially amounted to "duh."

"He really wasn't that good, not really," Rice said about Tillman. "He was good enough to play in Arizona, that's just like the XFL."

After several more promptings from Rome, Rice allowed, "I think it's very admirable, actually. You've got to give kudos to a guy like that because he did it for his own reasons. Maybe it's the Rambo movies, maybe it's Sylvester Stallone, Rocky, whatever compels him."

Oh, sure. Tillman did it because he couldn't cut it as an athlete. No, he did it because he got it from watching Rambo. Nah, it couldn't be because he actually felt compelled to serve his country, because after all he's just a dumb jock like Simeon Rice.
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drumwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
30. Oh, and about Indymedia....
Edited on Sat Apr-24-04 07:44 PM by drumwolf
Even though I have a bunch of friends who are Indymedia regulars, it's because of shit like this that I'm perfectly content with DU and won't waste my time with Indymedia.
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 08:00 PM
Response to Original message
31. Portland Indymedia run by Black Bloc and ALF people
Edited on Sat Apr-24-04 08:01 PM by mouse7
Portland Indymedia doesn't even get along with the people in the Indymedia movement because they are so extreme. There has been open warfare in Portland and in the main meetings in Seattle because two guys who are friends of Tre Arrow got access to the passwords to the Portland hub, and then changed all the passwords so that they were the only people with editor access.

Portland Indymedia has nothing to do with progressive anything. the two people in charge are Eugene Primitivists who quite literally believe in having all civilization collapse and have humanity return to being hunter/gatherers.
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-04 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #31
38. Thanks for the background. n/t
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Zinfandel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 11:34 PM
Response to Original message
36. Sadly mis-informed as most pro athletes are? Never really deciphering
Edited on Sun Apr-25-04 12:09 AM by Zinfandel
the Bush/Cheney/Rove bullshit, how could of he...Very sad, his family lost him. Tillman, I'm guessing would also of been in favor of the bogus invasion of Iraq...Did he know? Would he of cared?

An athletes mind and life is so focused on his sport, (and well it should be) gets only bits and pieces of television media bullshit in "relaxation" time...They are isolated, rich stars and the extra time they do have, is usualy listening to mainstreams lies and garbage from the TV or radio media. What else ie there?

9-11 brought out some true patriots...but the corporate media NEVER gave any real info...as we knew with all our hearts and minds (and are now finding to be true), through bits and pieces from other patriots who have come forward in front of the 9-11 commission...

Fighting for freedom is truly noble. Was finding bin Laden the ultimate score? When Bush & family is in "cahoots" with the bin Laden family.

But how much did the military, Rumsfeld, the Pentagon care about offering the truth to anyone..obvious with their censorship in the media is proof positive.

Very, very sad for Tillman and his loved ones and the many who continue to fight Bush's war for profit, poll numbers, and imperialism.

Just another loss of life for BushCo to exploit.
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