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Should water be privatized and controlled by a corporation such as Enron?

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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 02:13 PM
Original message
Should water be privatized and controlled by a corporation such as Enron?
Right before the spectacular breakup of Enron they were on the road to lock up all water sources in America and around the world and start charging cities and individuals for it. Should this be allowed? I'm sure this is the next thing on the GOP horizon. Is Capitalism so important that we give up our rights to basic life support? I believe certain things should remain in the domain of Government (We the People). The water supply and air supply and I think basic health care should be there also. Is that a way far left idea?
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kalian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
1. What makes you think that it hasn't been already....?
Its about resources....and its no longer "nation-states" that need
these resources but corporations.

Think about it...
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1monster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
2. No
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
3. Hell no and if they've already done it they can undo it.
We need a constitutional amendment to keep water goverment owned.
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Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #3
15. Water rights in the Montana constitution
ARTICLE IX Section 3. Water rights. (1) All existing rights to the use of any waters for any useful or beneficial purpose are hereby recognized and confirmed.
(2) The use of all water that is now or may hereafter be appropriated for sale, rent, distribution, or other beneficial use, the right of way over the lands of others for all ditches, drains, flumes, canals, and aqueducts necessarily used in connection therewith, and the sites for reservoirs necessary for collecting and storing water shall be held to be a public use.
(3) All surface, underground, flood, and atmospheric waters within the boundaries of the state are the property of the state for the use of its people and are subject to appropriation for beneficial uses as provided by law.
(4) The legislature shall provide for the administration, control, and regulation of water rights and shall establish a system of centralized records, in addition to the present system of local records.
http://leg.state.mt.us/css/mtcode_const/const.asp
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skooooo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
4. <sigh> I can't get out of my head...

...a line from someone else's post that I just read about fascism being insidious. I don't think we're there yet, but we're well on the way when we have to even consider the possibility and reality of our water being "owned" by corporations.
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cardlaw Donating Member (228 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
5. See the musical
Urinetown.
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TeeYiYi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
6. I think it's already being done . . .
. . . a while back I heard that water was the next big stock option. Sad, and definitely not right.

TYY

PS-->> I love the message in your sig.
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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
7. i Repeat-- Water will be more precious than oil in 25 years n/t
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2Design Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
8. NO never the next great shortage will be water
Water is going to become more important than oil. There are a lot of people and finite choices of water. And with the poluting of water, it will become even more scare.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
9. Grab for Florida's water was maybe a factor in Enron's fall. Good article
http://www.whoseflorida.com/azurix.htm
Dead in the Water: Enron's grab for Florida's water was factor in collapse

SNIP...."Dead in the Water: Enron's grab for Florida's water was factor in collapse
Sunday, March 17, 2002

By MICHAEL POLLICK and CHRIS DAVIS, Sarasota Herald-Tribune

While Jeb Bush was running for Florida's governor in the summer of 1998, Enron Corp., a fast-growing Houston energy broker, was diversifying into a potentially lucrative new field privatization of water supplies.

Even as Bush's secretary for the Department of Environmental Protection was settling into his office in February 1999, top executives of Enron's new water venture, Azurix Corp., were seeking audiences with the new governor and his DEP chief David Struhs. Although Bush generally kept his distance from Azurix, his man Struhs stood on the sidelines like a cheerleader throughout Enron-Azurix's unsuccessful two-year attempt to privatize Florida's water market.

Struhs promoted two ideas near and dear to Azurix: auctioning off blocks of water to the highest bidder, and boosting underground water and storing it there for later withdrawal, a process called aquifer storage and recovery, or ASR.


By May 2001, as Enron was getting ready to junk Azurix and sell it for its parts, Struhs cooled on ASR, citing concerns by environmentalists and legislators. Enron's attempt to duplicate its success in energy brokerage with a free-market approach to water resulted in $900 million in Azurix debt a factor in Enron's decision to seek protection from creditors in bankruptcy court.




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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. They deserved to be destroyed for that.
Now when will they go to jail?
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Go where? LOL but Martha Stewart might. Oh, well.
Makes me furious, it really does.

And look how quiet this has been kept. Amazing, isn't it?
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Toots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #9
27. They didn't have it right the first time but don't expect them to quit
They love having people by the balls and control of our water is right up their alley. Just as much as control over our health care. They do know how to rake in the bucks. This will not stop with Azurix. They already have new ventures on the drawing boards and unless we get rid of the Republican majority in congress they will do a job on America and won't be using any vaseline.
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bandy Donating Member (545 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
10. Jebbie is testing the waters
here in Fla. Of course he thinks its a great idea. Developers are moving in faster then lightning and they want the water rights cause water supply could hamper their plans for homes/condo's. We are a household of 2 and pay $40. month (how much laundry does one have to do) now with septic tank. Think what they could charge. Not only our household water but they are buying every waterfront property they can get their hands on and the public is loosing access the beaches and docks at all public facilities. Pretty soon you will have to pay to launch your boat where once you could launch and park for free. And that's the story from Palm Beach.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
11. This group is keeping an eye out on Jeb's stealth attempts.
http://www.flawildlife.org/pubs/watercoa/default.htm

The Florida Wildlife Federation has joined a new alliance, the Florida Water Coalition, that encourages public policies that protect and manage Floridas water resources which are increasingly threatened with run-off and groundwater withdrawals. The coalition will be reaching out to regional and local interests seeking to build a greater consensus around protecting Floridas waters.

Floridas water supplies may be in jeopardy. Water developers and many of the states water utilities are trying to derail an update of state water rules on conservation, efficiency and protection of fish and wildlife. They are also vigorously opposing rule improvements that are necessary to protect public health. On other fronts, proposals have been made to privatize water resources and hand over to the market place decisions about water prices and distribution. Thirty years ago, legislators wisely established a water code to protect the environment while providing clean water for human use.

The Florida Water Coalition is a growing alliance of leading environmental, public health and public interest organizations in the state. Its goals are to educate and communicate with decision makers; to interpret policies and analyze proposed policies; to educate and mobilize local leaders, groups, allies and constituencies; and to publicize issues, proposals and decisions through the media.

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bandy Donating Member (545 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Thanks, Midflo
that's good to know! But I just don't trust Jeb & Co. Are you familiar with what's going on at Sailfish Marina on Singer Island? Just makes me sick to think they will make luxury condo's on this beautiful spot presently being enjoyed by the likes of you and me. If the developer (WCI) wins, my family will no longer have access to this treasure. We have docked and spent weekends there even though we live near by just cause it is affordable with dockage and a nice, clean get-a-way on a long weekend. You can even take your dog. I am
PISSED to say the least.
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phaseolus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
12. Thanks to treaties, Great Lakes water is staying where it is...
Except for a few relatively minor exceptions (some Lake Michigan water goes into the Mississippi via the backwards-flowing Chicago River, and a town or two that pump their wastewater back into the Great Lakes basin) it's not legal to pump water over the sub-continental divides.

I'm still expecting things to get phuqued up somehow, but it hasn't happened yet to my knowledge. Our water is still pretty cheap in Milwaukee.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
14. It should be outlawed. Water and energy: too vital to be privatized.
America needs to take a real good look at its purpose. The business of America may be business, but what is the purpose of that business? To make a few immensely wealthy while others starve?

A business that declares a profit that debits the nation is a parasite which will bleed the nation dry and kill it.

Corporations that claim the bottom line has improved while former workers line up for welfare because unemployment has expired.....sorry. What are they doing for America, again?

Corporations that gloat over profits while leaving huge scars on the landscape or poison in the water, land, or air cost US. So what are they doing for America, again?

Corporations are not necessarily anyone's friend. Corporations unchecked are always the enemy.
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Earth_First Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
16. ABSOLUTELY NOT!
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MisterP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
18. Bechtel's doing a lot of that;
read Palast's "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy," but watch your blood pressure.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
20. Jeb's Water War...and other articles. It is ongoing.
http://cedarkeynews.com/Editorial/1091.html

SNIP..."The public hearing at Chiefland High School by the Florida Senate Natural Resources Committee on pumping water from the Suwannee River to South Florida, drew more than 1000 citizens last Thursday night. The crowd and the senators were unanimous in their opposition; in fact, there was not a single soul in the meeting that was in favor of the idea. The senators all admitted they had yet to find anyone in favor, yet the idea of reorganizing Florida`s water management system seems to have legs of it`s own. At least that is what Governor Jeb Bush would have us believe. The truth is quite another story.

In fact Governor Bush has been pushing a water privatization plan, which includes the centralization of all the water management districts, since 1997. All the senators know this, but it is not safe to oppose this governor even at the preliminary stage of a debate. The governor launched his trial balloon by having his hand picked Council Of 100 publicly propose the idea. The fact that the balloon did not fly makes little difference to a governor that has been given unequaled power in Florida history. The total lack of concern for public opinion on this matter by the governor`s office was evidenced by the fact that Governor Bush did not even bother to send a spokesperson to explain why we need water reorganization in Florida, and why should he?

More ongoing:
http://www.whoseflorida.com/water_man.htm
SNIP..."A proposal that would make it easier to move water from rural North Florida to the state's urban south comes under fire at a hearing in Boca Raton.
The problem isn't too little water, it's too many people. That was one of the big messages delivered Tuesday as state lawmakers sought public reaction to a plan from a powerful business group that sees the solution to South Florida's water worries in the deep underground reserves of the rural north 10/15/03 (more)

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/7015702.htm

And they will keep trying.




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bandy Donating Member (545 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. Can't stand him anymore then *ushit!
They both scare the hell out of me. Reptiles is what comes to mind.
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genius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
21. It's called population control. If you can't buy private, bye-bye.
THe water is horrid,filthy wherever it is privatized.
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LittleApple81 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
22. American Corp. DID IT IN BOLIVIA. That is one of the many reasons
why Bolivians are so pissed at the US. They had revolts and, as far as I know, they had to cancel some of this "concessions". This was at least 2 years ago, and the price of water went up by 500%.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
23. NO!
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
25. yes
air too

Plus, I think we should have to pay some corporation rent on our own bodies, don't you?
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. that'll be next.
Some corporation will negotiate a right to the use of carbon.
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SharonAnn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
28. Water has been privatized in many other countries. Why not here?
Crony capitalists want to privatize everything and sell our publicly owned infrastructure to their friends on the cheap. Then their friends can jack up prices (monopoly power, you know) and get richer.
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