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chicagojoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 01:14 PM
Original message
Pat Tillman IS a hero...
Edited on Sat Apr-24-04 01:33 PM by chicagojoe
...but why is he being hailed as any more of a hero than our other troops who have laid down their lives?
These young men and women are losing their lives because of the moronic whims of a group of a55ho1e5 in Washington.
BushCorp. has the blood of so many on their hands, and they HAVE TO PAY FOR THIS!!!
Pat Tillman, it is said, did not want special attention over serving his country as he sought fit.
THE SCUMBAG RIGHT-WING MEDIA IS USING HIS UNFORTUNATE DEATH AS PRO-BUSH PROPAGANDA !!!
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KissMyAsscroft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
1. Because our country thinks famous people are better than the peasants.


It's just a sad fact about humans.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Wrong
I do get your point, but that's not why. Tillman gave up a life of fame and fortune to fight for the country. He saw what happened on 9/11 and that was enough for him to go. Tillman is a hero and a role model. Too bad there aren't more people like him in this world.
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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Isee.....
so if you give up fame and fortune you're a hero but if you didn't have fame and fortune you're not. Got it. Thanks.

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crimson333 Donating Member (760 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Everytime I have heard them mention Pat tillman
They mention the others who have died. Not by name of course, but they point out they were just as important. Even during the NFL Draft the mentioned all who have died
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Get over yourself.
The was selfless. He saw the threat to the country and he went. He didn't go because he was poor or needy. he did not need to go. He gave up everything to go. Many give up everything, but he didn't need to.
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pretzel4gore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #7
31. easy to go shoot desperate peasants....
the real threat was rush limbaughumbug and the foxnews/cnn mediawhores etc who gave the nation (and world) geebush....and the muslim terrorism which geeb needed and needs...
to join the most massively funded military on earth to fight civilians isn't any great courage...
america's destroying itself with ignorance
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bahrbearian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Your a hero if you have a blood lust,or lust for Revenge.
your not a hero if you joined only because of your lower class standings.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Man, some of you are so full of shit.
CNN has shown every soldier that has died on Newsnight. Several dead NY soldiers have made the first page of the NY Daily News, Newsday and the other locals. I have seen and read stories about several soldiers from the area and nationally. You are blinded by your hatred for Bush*.
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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #3
18. I do not consider service to your country to be heroic
I consider it a fine trait and admirable but not heroic. Heroism should entail actions above and beyond mere duty to your country. It should involve great deeds of extreme danger while saving others or property. Just joining the service is not heroic. IMHO.
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Snow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
2. Welcome to the board, chicagojoe,
and I couldn't agree more with your thoughts on the tillman propaganda thing. However, please be very careful how you post - especially your last sentence. Might want to go check the old rule book. You might even get your post/thread dropped for this.....so if that happens, that's why.
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chicagojoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. My bad, Snow. Thanks for throwing the bucket of water.
I get a little carried away sometimes.
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jjmalonejr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
5. Celebrity = Ratings
The reason the story is being reported over and over isn't because of the right-wing media. It's because celebrity sells, and the news media is in the business to make money. They give their customers what they want. It's shameful, but a sad reality.

Granted, the right-wing media will continue catterwalling about Pat Tillman's heroism to the point of inducing naseau, but even serious journalists will cover the story because the American public has an inherent interest in celebrity.

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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. He wasn't that famous.
He was a low draft pick who did well on a bad team. It has nothing to do with celebrity. It's about giving it all up for your country when you have everything. It's really a sad but somewhat inspiring story. No matter how much everyone here hates Bush (and I do too) it doesn't take away from the fact that Tillman is a real hero.
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hellboy Donating Member (84 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. This guy Tilman had some serious balls or he was crazy.
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bahrbearian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. It also could delay the Draft a little longer..
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hellboy Donating Member (84 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Tilman died for Cheney/Bush oil companies. How pathetic and sad
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OC_dem Donating Member (63 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. Pat Tillman
died because he felt a call to be of service to his country. You may not agree with the reasons for either the Iraq or Afghanistan wars but saying he died for the Cheney/Bush oil companies is unfair to him, his family and friends, the others that have died, and the other service men and women over there.

Service people do what they are told, they don't make policy, they are in service to the country not the Cheney/Bush oil companies.

Pat Tillman is a hero, no more or less than the others over there. He is getting press because he is probably the only nationally known figure fighting over there. I doubt there are any other military personal that walked away from a $3,600,000 a year salary to serve so he is a bit of a curiosity to the press. It got a lot of coverage in the sports news when he joined.

I don't see how you can claim we are fighting for oil in Afghanistan, I don't think there is any there.

FWIW I'm against the Iraq war but very much in favor of the Afghan war.
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hellboy Donating Member (84 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. He died for oil.
Afghanistan is being used for oil pipelines. Bush had given the Taliban a 43 million dollar good will gesture when he first got into office. He was trying to get a pipeline put in but Taliban refused to allow it and then 9/11 happened and suddenly the Taliban was the enemy.

Anyways, as I said before, Tilman had balls but he was probably a little nuts, also.
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walmartsucks Donating Member (149 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. The Taliban were "suddenly" the enemy
The Taliban were always the enemy to the entire civilized world. From their oppression of women to destroying the Buddha statues carved out of mountainsides that were many centuries old, they were an affront to all that is decent. The Taliban are scumbag pieces of shit, regardless of what you think of Bush's reasons for attacking them.
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OC_dem Donating Member (63 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #21
33. The most
I can say about this is that military is being misused by the Thief in Chief, I'm sure in Pat Tillman's mind he was not fighting for oil or oil pipelines.

The Taliban make the religious right in this country look like liberals, the Taliban were trying to turn the clock back to the 12th century. The religious right here is only trying to go back to the 1940's.
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walmartsucks Donating Member (149 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. While I'm no fan of the religious right...
You are seriously off base.

"The Taliban make the religious right in this country look like liberals, the Taliban were trying to turn the clock back to the 12th century. The religious right here is only trying to go back to the 1940's."

Could you give us some examples of how the religious right in the U.S. is worse than the Taliban? And please, when you do, be sure to note how the Taliban is more progressive on the same issue. This should be interesting.
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stellanoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. It seemingly is a bit curious. . .
that over the last week there's been more media flap about a dead football star, a cartoon amputee, and relatively tasteful photos of soldiers' coffins (compared to what's on al jazeera).

again. . .what's it gonna take for people to react. . ."Survivor Falluja. . .?"
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
15. many of his friends are making the same point
I was surprised, reading quotes from his family and teammates, most of them said that he shouldn't be celebrated more than any other soldier.

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hellboy Donating Member (84 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. A famous person being killed makes it more personal to people.
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DAGDA56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
19. I think it would be a major tatical error...
...for the Bush WH to come anywhere near this story. For a majority of wingnuts, and a majority of Americans for that matter, who have not lost a friend or relative, all the dead and maimed in Iraq and Afghanistan are, unfortunately, statistics. If Pat Tillman's death puts a human face on all the casualties, it might just be the most heroic thing he could do. I will be very surprised if W even mentions Tillman.
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Devlzown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
22. Pat Tillman was a fool.
He gave up a 3 million dollar contract to go fight for something he either wasn't educated about or didn't care. I'm sure his family will be comforted with his posthumous medals.
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walmartsucks Donating Member (149 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. He was a fool, but obviously you're a genius
He had the balls to give up a life of luxury to go do something he truly believed in that put his life in serious danger. What have you done, other than sit here and whine, bitch, moan and complain from the comfort of your own home?
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Devlzown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. I'm not bitching.
Although if I was, that would mean I'm still alive. Unlike some people. Pat Tillman kept bungee jumping until the cord broke. I don't think what he did was good and I wouldn't want my kids to imitate him. If you want to idolize him, suit yourself.
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walmartsucks Donating Member (149 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. I'm not idolizing him
But I do respect him. As i said, he put his life on the line for something he believed in. Dangerous? Certainly. Stupid? I don't think fighting for what you believe in is stupid. But then, that's just me.
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Devlzown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. It's okay to fight for something that is wrong.
As long as you believe in it. Do I understand you correctly? There have been scores of thousands of people who have died for causes they believed in. Germans in WWII. Some of my family who fought for the Confederates in the U.S. Civil War. People who died or were maimed or were psychologically damaged because people told them it was the right thing to do and they believed it. There was a wealth of knowledge at this man's disposal -- more than those poor people had in the past -- and he still chose to do what he did. He wasn't forced to do what he did like most of our Reservists and regular military. He chose to go over there and fight in a war that any educated person will tell you is completely flawed in it's conception. I understand how his family mourns him. But he could've made sure that never happened.
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walmartsucks Donating Member (149 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #28
34. Who says it's wrong?
I believe the fight in Afghanistan is just. The war in Iraq is another story. OBL was in Afghanistan and the Taliban chose not to give him up. In fact, they were staunch supporters of him.

"People who died or were maimed or were psychologically damaged because people told them it was the right thing to do and they believed it."

From the interviews I read when he chose to enlist and the subsequent interviews with his family and friends, nobody "told" him it was the thing to do. He arrived at that conclusion on his own. And your comparison with the Germans in WW2 or the Confederates in the civil war is accurate. However, it is the Taliban and OBL, not the U.S., that are the Germans and Confederates here.

" He chose to go over there and fight in a war that any educated person will tell you is completely flawed in it's conception."

Well, I happen to think of myself as an educated person, as I have both an undergraduate and graduate degree, and I don't think eliminating members of Al Queda in Afghanistan is flawed whatsoever. Perhaps any other educated person can explain why it's flawed in conception. Maybe we should've just turned the other cheek?
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walmartsucks Donating Member (149 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #28
35. One other thing
I don't know that I would call Tillman a hero, but I would call him principled.
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SpeakEasy Donating Member (16 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
25. why is he being hailed as any more of a hero than our other troops?
Why was Paul Wellstone hailed and memorialized any more than any other airplane crash victim?
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. Please take your Wellstone/Soldier bashing to another forum.
Nice try, but the Wellstone bash gave it away. Thanks for making yourself easy to spot, though.
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gpandas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. because wellstone was probably killed nt
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DianeG5385 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
32. Pat Tillman will be everyman who has died
Edited on Sat Apr-24-04 06:09 PM by DianeG5385
We must INSIST that the story of everyman who has died get equivalent coverage. Pat was a cool cat and he above all others would expect that we honor others before him. If Bush DARES to attend his funeral it will ONLY be for political benefit as he has not seen fit to acknowledge the death of one young man AS YET!!!! My cousin is on the FIRING LINE and ONE OF HIS Friends has been killed. WHERE are their honors????
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