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carrowsboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 09:01 AM
Original message
need help responding to freep email I got
This came from a friend serving in Iraq. We are so proud of him and all of the others!!!!!! Mary Lane

All,

April has been a challenging month in Iraq. Many in the American public are bent on immediate gratification. The following commentary, although opinionated, puts some things in perspective.

The enemies of freedom (AQ, TB, some Iraqis, and possibly some Democrats) would have the public believe we are losing...or taking too long. On the contrary, the true losers in the current debate are the self-centered, self-righteous, nay-sayers who lack the backbone to stand up and fight now. I guess they would rather delay this fight so that their children would have to fight the war on terror on American soil.

Enough of my thoughts. Thought you might like to read the article.

Val

Political facts

AND......(now a word of caution because I'm not positive these numbers are precise) but if I read it correctly, there were 39 combat related killings in Iraq during the month of January.....in the fair city of Detroit there were 35 murders in the month of January. That's in one American city folks, about as deadly as the entire war torn country of Iraq.

Worst president in history?

The following appeared in the Durham, NC local paper as a letter to the editor. Please forward to all on your list as this will put things in perspective:

Liberals claim President Bush shouldn't have started this war. They complain about his prosecution of it. One liberal recently claimed Bush was the worst president in U.S. history. Let's clear up one point: We didn't start the war on terror. Try to remember, it was started by terrorists BEFORE 9/11. Let's look at the "worst" president and mismanagement claims.

FDR led us into World War II. Germany never attacked us: Japan did. From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost, an average of 112,500 per year.

Truman finished that war and started one in Korea, North Korea never attacked us. From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost, an average of 18,333 per year.

John F. Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked us.

Johnson turned Vietnam into a quagmire. From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost, an average of 5,800 per year.

Clinton went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent, Bosnia never attacked us. He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing. Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.

In the two years since terrorists attacked us, President Bush has liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors in Lybia, Iran and North Korea without firing a shot, and captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people. We lost 600 soldiers, an average of 30 a year. Bush did all this abroad while not allowing another terrorist attack at home. Worst president in history? Come on!

The Democrats are complaining about how long the war is taking, but...

It took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno to take the Branch Davidian compound. That was a 51 day operation.

We've been looking for evidence of chemical weapons in Iraq for less time than it took Hillary Clinton to find the Rose Law Firm billing records.

It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines to destroy the Medina Republican Guard than it took Teddy Kennedy to call the police after his Oldsmobile sank at Chappaquiddick.

It took less time to take Iraq than it took to count the votes in Florida!!!!

Our military is GREAT! PASS IT ON.
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Brian_Expat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
1. Ask them if the Bush regime is so smart. . .
. . . why is it taking them longer to find the WMDs that Rummy said "they knew where they were" and that was Bush's reason to go to war than capturing the Branch Davidian compound, finding the Rose Law Firm billing records, Ted Kennedy to call the police and the Florida vote count COMBINED?
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rooboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
2. I wouldn't think very highly of someone...
who, in the course of pursuing a "war", would devote so much time to insulting people from their own country.

And I would ask them if they're prepared to bet $1000 on the statement: "He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing", because IT IS A LIE. The Sudanese offered to deport bin Laden to SAUDI ARABIA, who in turn refused to take him. Nobody was ever offered bin Laden "on a platter".

So I think whatever 'friend' sent you this insulting, untruthful email owes you an explanation.
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DCDemo Donating Member (847 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
3. Correct them
There were hundreds, if not thousands, of combat killings in Iraq. Just counting Americans killed is like just counting cops killed, and there have not been 39 cops killed in ANY city in the US over the same amount of time.

Since we are not keeping track of civilian deaths, and for that matter, deaths of insurgents, comparing any casualty numbers coming out of Iraq to domestic numbers is bad math.

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candy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. Cops
I thought the NYPD lost about 80 on 9-11.
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JPJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. No connection btwn 9/11 and the war in Iraq
Other than 9/11 was used as an excuse to: 1) Finish Daddy's business, 2) Test Wolfowitz's half-baked theory about the Middle East.
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candy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Didn't say there was a connection!
I was just responding to a statement made in post #3.
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Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
4. It took more time to take Iraq than it took for Rush Limbaugh to ...
...swallow 4,500 Oxycontins.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
5. their lie is based on the premise that iraq and saddam
equal terrorist. lie.
our war on iraq IS terrorism. truth.

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RoyGBiv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
6. Ask Questions
Questions annoy freepers. You were sent this to try to rile you up and get you to lash out or expend a lot of effort in a fruitless exercise of point/counter-point. Flood the individual with questions, and if any of those questions get satisfactory answers, which they likely won't, then think about a rebuttal. But, until your questions are satisfied, you need not respond.

Questions like: This was from "a" Durham newspaper? Which one? What issue was it in? Have you seen a copy? If not, can you find out for me? Perhaps the paper has a website. Again, what's the name of the paper? Could you find out if it has a website, or maybe just tell me, and I'll find it.

This sounds very much like a fake, floating letter. We've all seen letters from people serving in Iraq, and they do not sound like this. Even those from people whose morale is still high don't sound like this. And, how does someone in Iraq have access to all these numbers and statistics? Even the "word of caution" about the precision of the numbers comes off as fake, particularly since the "number" of murders listed for Detroit coincides closely with the monthly average, which happens to be 39, the other number he mentioned. If it were me and I wanted to make a point, I'd pound on the issue of the letter's authenticity before I bothered with a rebuttal.

However, a few things to rebut if you really want to get into it:

- FDR did not "lead" us into WWII in the sense he means it. We didn't even declare war on Germany until Germany officially declared war on us, which, by the terms of its treaty with Japan, happened to coincide with the point at which we declared war on Japan. There was actually some question about what we'd do if Germany did not honor its treaty with Japan. And the point remains: there is absolutely no evidence at all that Iraq had one thing to do al Qaeda or the events of 9/11.

- The 55,000 deaths indicated for Korea is interesting because this number comes from a particular source that counts the total number of soldiers enlisted in the armed forces who died of all causes between the years 1951 - 1955. This may or may not indicate internet research since this is not an official casualty count by any measure and would not be the number a military person would use. The official number of dead for the Korean War is listed by the US Department of Defense as 33,651 of a total of 5,764,100 enrolled in the military, not all of whom actually served in Korea. I mention this because this silly numbers game really means nothing, but if this person wants to play it, play back.

- JF Kennedy did not "start" the Vietnam war. Neither did he start our involvement with it. That began in the 1950's toward the end of Korea. It got really fired up under LBJ. Again, this means nothing. It is a strawman.

- Point out the disparity in the opening comments about Americans having no patience, about doing well, etc. and the notion that "it took less time" to take Iraq than... Obviously, if Americans are required to have patience for anything involved in this war, we haven't yet actually "taken" Iraq. We're occupying it, and we removed Hussein from power, yes, and in the process of doing that created de facto anarchy. Regardless, the war is not over. If it were, we would not have had almost as many soldiers die in combat so far this month than died prior to the fall of Baghdad.

Just a few things...sorry for the length. I was bored.
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carrowsboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. thanks!
You make excellent points!
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candy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. What's a freeper?
I'm new around here,and also a bit older than most of you,so I'm often out of the loop.
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