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notbush Donating Member (616 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 04:35 AM
Original message
I was really dissapointed in the late breaking news
thread about Pat Tilman's death today.
There are at least a few posters who claim "Al-Quada had nothing to do with 9/11".
I'm sorry, but that double layer of tin-foil disrespects not only Pat, but 99% of the voters in the country.
Am I wrong, or am I in the wrong place?
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 04:50 AM
Response to Original message
1. Out of 77 heartfelt responses in that LBN thread...
... you choose to single out the two responses, both by the same author, which hypothesize that 9/11 had nothing to do with al-Qaeda.

I found the overall mood of the thread reflective, respectful and mournful.

Maybe that's just me.
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notbush Donating Member (616 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 04:59 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. Your right
If it was 1 or 2...3 or 4.. I found it profoundly disgusting.
This guy made choices to help "us" with no fanfare. A few tin foilers want to make it look like he was badly misinformed, or being used, to make that decision.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #6
18. Pat was super nice guy - but the PR is because rich guy killed - not nice
guy getting killed.

I think we would find the that of the 800 dead so far all were nice guys (or almost all)

It was the monied class shock at a monied person choosing to be in harms way that is making the media light up.

Sort of explains why Kerry is a traitor to his class, and AWOL Bush is a hero to his class - and presented as such by the right wing whores in the media.
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rooboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 04:52 AM
Response to Original message
2. You might be in the wrong place...
because suggesting people should change their analysis of events "out of respect" is emotional blackmail and, really, something that Fox News does. It's not appropriate.
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oblivious Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 04:54 AM
Response to Original message
3. If you provided evidence I would believe you.
You could put this matter to rest if you provided hard evidence that Al-queda was responsible for 911. But even the head of the FBI has said they could find not one piece of evidence.

"In our investigation, we have not uncovered a single piece of paper?either here in the United States or in the treasure trove of information that has turned up in Afghanistan and elsewhere?that mentioned any aspect of the Sept. 11 plot."

- Robert Mueller, head of the FBI, in a speech on April 19, 2002 to the Commonwealth Club in San Francisco, reported by the LA Times and Washington Post.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 04:55 AM
Response to Original message
4. There was someone who was pushing this opinion on DU, but I don't think it
it is the majority opinion here. Most DUers believe that al Qaeda was behind 9/11. Then it splits from there as to whether the Bush Administration knew it was coming, and still let it happen.

Personally, I think the Bush Administration was incompetent. If I had to question any agency's motives, it would be the C.I.A.'s. Then, I wonder if there were foreign countries that knew it was coming, and if so, how many of them tried to warn us, and how many kept quiet?
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Piperay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 04:58 AM
Response to Original message
5. People here do not all think alike
that is not the nature of being a Democrat, diversity in thought is what the party and the DU is all about. I happen to think that Al Quada did have something to do with 9-11 but that is JMO and I can accept that others have differing ones. :shrug:
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 05:03 AM
Response to Original message
7. You focus on the opinion of 3 posts by the same person in a huge thread?
Edited on Sat Apr-24-04 05:10 AM by w4rma
:wtf: In your opinion, should that person have been banned from DU? Are you looking for a debate where everyone agrees?
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notbush Donating Member (616 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 05:19 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. I just went back and reread the thread...
It's not 3 posts. Don't just read the "subjects", read the posts.
It is "just my opinion" but anyone who thinks Al-Quada had nothing to do with 9/11 is "not living in the real world"...that is a pc way of giving my opinion.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 05:42 AM
Response to Reply #8
15. Correction: 3 posters and 8 posts out of 79. Mountains and molehills, imho
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #8
22. Speaking of "not living in the real world"....
...where's your proof that OBL and Al Qaeda were involved in 911?

Why did OBL initially DENY that he and Al Qaeda were responsible for the attacks on 911, when he had ALWAYS claimed responsibility for his previous attacks?

Why did the same high-level Pakistani ISI operative who sent Atta money prior to the 911 attacks also participate in high-level meetings in the U. S. on the day the attacks took place? Why did Pakistan allow him to retire quietly instead of arresting the guy and asking him what he knew?

Why did absolutely none of the alleged attackers come from either Afghanistan or Iraq?

Why did at least five of the alleged hijackers attend U. S. military schools, and what are the requirements for foreign nationals to be able to do such a thing? Back when I was an officer in the Navy, foreign nationals attending our military schools had to ALREADY be officers in their respective countries' navies.

By the way, despite your rather pathetic attempt to imply otherwise, NONE of my questions about what actually happened on 911 and who was actually responsible for those acts has any bearing on how I badly I personally feel about the deaths of Tillman and every other American that has died in the Middle East. It has been a tremendous waste of accomplishments that will now never be possible. I also feel tremendous sadness and compassion for the deaths of the tens of thousands of innocent Afghan and Iraqi civilians that we've killed based on nothing but lies from the NeoCon Junta.

After knowing that the reason we went to war with Iraq was based on a pack of lies, how could anyone NOT question everything that the NeoCons have said and done since they took power in December 2000?
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oblivious Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 05:26 AM
Response to Original message
9. Cut the propaganda
So let me get this straight. We now have proof that virtually everything the Administration, defence and intelligence services said about Iraq being a danger was a lie.

Yet you are willing to believe everything they said about Afghanistan's involvement in 911, and they haven't even had to bother providing you with the slightest bit of proof. You just believe them, because they wouldn't lie. Our leaders wouldn't lie.

Meanwhile, the poorest, most desperate country on earth has been bombed to smithereens and taken over by surely the most evil people on earth (our warlord allies), and we keep on killing them and being killed, and that's ok with you.

We're not the conspiracy theorists. We don't pretend to know what happened. But one thing is damn sure...you are. There ain't a lick of proof linking Afghanistan to 911.
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mopaul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 05:31 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. true
remember the lie rules layed down by the repulinazis during Clinton's term. Clinton lied just once, and that's all it took to impeach him. and now they label him history's greatest liar.

but bush lies thousands of times and no one mentions it. and any official story coming out of bushco's white house must also be considered a lie.

you can't prove to me that al quaeda attacked us. i live in the real world. and you can't trust a president who told one lie.

if it can be proved al quaeda did it, i'll believe it. so far, i don't see the irrifutable proof.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 06:37 AM
Response to Reply #10
17. The video released in Dec 2001 was never denied by al-Qaeda
and in it, bin Laden say he says he was involved in the planning. The attack fits in with his past acts.

Unlike the Iraq fantasies, there's no dissent leaking from the international intelligence services about bin Laden and 9/11.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. Was that the skinny bin Laden or the fat bin Laden in that video? n/t
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 05:31 AM
Response to Original message
11. Yeh, you're probably in the wrong place.
Edited on Sat Apr-24-04 05:32 AM by VolcanoJen
Every now and again, a DUer, even a long-standing, beloved and respected one like the poster you're referring to, disagrees with a widely-held world view.

You can either find that view strange, different and challenging, and take it with a grain of salt; or you can go elsewhere, maybe even within DU, and find a group of posters who march in step to your own, personal drum. It really is up to you. You don't have to embrace a certain point of view to find this site worthwhile and informative.

Again, I think the LBN thread is a valid one, and it brings up points of view which are challenging, discouraging, and uplifting, all at the same time.

That's something that I love about DU. Your mileage may vary.
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Guava Jelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 05:33 AM
Response to Original message
12. Al-quida had nothing to do with iraq had everything to do with 911
People love their tin foil.
Stuff like that makes people who are just passing through think Du has a buttload of nutts posting.To some extent they have a point.
People sometimes sound like a certain mel gibson movie Conspiracy theory.Now I agree Bush didnt stop 911 after all he should have shot down the remaining three planes the first one was allmost understandable.
The old saying fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me fool me three - four times I am an idiot monkey chimp. ok so i added a few.
As far as tillman his heart was in the right place he sounded like a great guy..But giving up 3 million plus to go eat sand to me thats borderline retarded But I aint no dead hero either!!.I am a liberal I Prefer my heroes Alive..
Flame away foil hatters
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 05:37 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. I'll take that bait.
Don't try to throw "liberals" with "guys who ain't no dead heroes, and prefer their heroes alive" into the same group.

There is nothing "borderline" nor "retarded" about Pat Tillman and his decision. There's nothing "liberal" about your point of view, either.
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Guava Jelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 05:43 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Liberal is quite a big tent
Edited on Sat Apr-24-04 05:44 AM by GoPsUx
And i am a liberal. I think war is stupid.
I also think foot ball is stupid.
Humans are so enamored with war that they need to Mock it via our team battles your team over a damn football While face painted drunks wearing cheese blocks on their heads scream like banshees
I apologize for the retarded statement but the tinfoil is alive and well.
No I dont wish to be flamed I just read my own reply and figured it may piss off a few
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necso Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 05:33 AM
Response to Original message
13. That thread was pretty tame,
there have been a lot worse. But I understand your concern in the broader sense.

Don't worry about it, use the ignore feature if you like... and don't start a "flame me" thread unless you are looking for it.

If you are in the wrong place (and forthcoming in your posts), you will find out when they ban you. Don't let the shouters, the lead helmet types, the clever lurkers and the like (I point no fingers) scare you off ... or turn you off. There is quite a bit of good here, along with the bad.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
19. Al Quaeda did 911. Still bombing Afghanistan to smithereens is not
necessarily the solution there. OBL + 15 hijackers were Saudi.
he was hiding in Afghanistam which offered him to W about 3 times before being attacked. But they couldn't accept, cuz they needed to stomp their feet.
I might accept the Clarke solution - bombing of the camps - but NOT THE ENTIRE COUNTRY. Now we blew up the place and OBL/AQ are fine - because they were not tied to any particular country in the first place. It was an intelligence operation - not a military one.

That war is questionable - and Barbara Lee my hero.
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Don Claybrook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
20. Why do you believe al Q did 9/11?
I think there's a good chance that al Qaeda was involved with September 11th, but that's just a guess. Not a shred of proof has ever been provided, to my knowledge. If you choose to believe it was al Qaeda, it must be, as you infer, because you want to side with 99% of the American public, but not because you've been given a rational explanation.

And while no evidence has been provided, we do have loads of evidence that this administration lies on a constant and ongoing basis.

So I'm answering your question with a more pertinent question. Why do you believe al Qaeda did September 11th?

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