Is there a website like this for people not so far to the left?

[zoidberg]

I enjoy this website and think it's very well run. But is there another smart forum that caters to people a little closer to the center? It seems like if you aren't extreme in your politics, there really isn't a place for you on the internet.

[JohnKleeb]

1. centrists I really dont know

because centrists like the others come in all colors. Who knows you may get more liberal while you are here.

[prolesunited]

2. Can I ask you what brands DU

as "so far to the left"? What positions and issues are you basing this on? What views do you hold that you don't see reflected here?

BTW, there are a number of moderates and centrists that hang out here as well. Perhaps you just need to hang out here longer.

[TheUnionDemocrat]

52. Look at the support for Dean and Kucinich here...

...and then compare that to national polls.

Look at the support (Or lack there of) of the war on Iraq here and then compare that to national polls.

Look at the support for the recent MoveOne.org here and then compare that to internet users in general.

Yes...DU is very far to the left. Which is fine, it's not my site. I just wish it was more supportive of "Democrats" than "Leftist Ideals".


(Now...I'll admit to one thing. The last time we discussed this issue, someone made a VERY good point. Just maybe those DUers who are further left may by the most vocal. I'll conceed that point and simply say...The POSTS on DU lean farther to the left than "Democrats" in general.)

[zoidberg]

64. You said it better than I could

I really didn't think there was much of a question that this site is very much to the left. Free Republic is very much to the right. I'm just trying to find something that has lots of discussion that falls somewhere in between.

[Orangepeel]

84. Centrists for Dean!

I'm pretty centrist in my views, especially the fiscal ones, and I support Dean. Dean describes himself as a "common sense moderate" on his website, and I agree.

[w4rma]

85. Clinton described Dean's accomplishments...as "New Democrat" positions

Clinton described Dean's accomplishments with health care in his home state and his proposal to promote a national health care plan with a modest price tag as "New Democrat" positions. He was referring to the moniker the Democratic Leadership Council puts on Democrats who can blend moderate ideas that appeal to swing voters with traditional Democratic themes.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2003/05/14/national2104EDT0848.DTL
http://www.sltrib.com/2003/May/05152003/nation_w/57021.asp

Maybe you shoult take into consideration that many moderates support Dean, also. There are quite a few vocal moderates on DU, btw. dolstein and muddleoftheroad, for instance.

[bpilgrim]

91. i think we are AHEAD of the curve

and that is one of the reasons why DU is a great place to get your info.

besides the more you know the more liberal you tend to be ;->

peace

[indepat]

79. I wonder if freeperville is less far to the right than DU is to the left.

I dunno since I never visit, but is it o.k. to be extreme as long as the extremism is to the right?

[TheUnionDemocrat]

89. I would say they're about the same...

Bitter partisans populate both.

[HERVEPA]

3. Disagree with premise

The general tone of the media, and movement of politicians to the right makes what were previously moderate views seem more radical.

[plcdude]

8. I agree

I don't think of myself and many others here as liberal or extremists. Most are constitutional loyalists and defenders of a moderate nature. The definitions have been moved by the extremist right dominating our civil service and corporate media outlets.

[tom_paine]

37. BINGO!

Part and parcel of Goebbels v2.0 is the shifting of the playing field such that former centrists are now viewed by the slack-jawed propagandized Imperial Subjects of Amerika as raving Commies.

My views are generally the same as they were years ago. Moderate, progun, capitalist, but also environmentalist, pro-progressive taxation. I always believed in both the liberal and conservtive (aspects of each anyway) and believe (still do, except that this is emergency time) that conservatives and liberals both make this country great by balancing each other's excesses out and steering a course down the middle.

(of course, that was before Totalitarian Busheviks swallowed the True Conservatives whole)

It's is everything else that's moved and now I am a "Stalinist lunatic" for adhering to the Founding Father's vision of a Centrist Nation driven by comepeting passions in a framework of checks and balances.

Madness. Orwellian madness.

Crunch Time is coming. No one can say when it will be but history says it's not a matter of "if" but "when".

[CDY]

4. Stay!

I think that you should stay and post here as well. It takes a wide variety of thoughts to promote democracy! I love to debate with people over issues. I think if you're looking for a place where everyone agrees with you politically, then you will have a hard time finding it. Good luck!

[Best_man23]

5. I don't agree with all the views expressed on this website

But it is a forum where I can voice my views and not be banished for disagreeing with others. Dare try that at FreeRepublic, and you would find yourself on the outs.

Stay awhile, I have found this site gets comfortable over time, like a good pair of shoes.

[zoidberg]

9. I don't know if that's always the case

I don't mind that I don't agree with everything. I've seen plenty of people getting chewed out for being outside of the majority here. I wouldn't even mind it if a disagreed with everything. But I'd like to get a wider spectrum of thought and DU doesn't provide that. I'm not saying that I'm leaving DU - it's still a great site - but I want more balanced discussions sometimes.

[prolesunited]

14. Try capitolgrilling.com

both sides are represented in a fairly rational manner.

[Pastiche423]

15. Could you explain

what you mean by wider spectrum?

[Terwilliger]

29. he doesnt see enough conservative thought

[KG]

44. heh

:)

[NewYorkerfromMass]

Damn. You're right.

Never occurred to me. That's obviously the man's problem.

[roughsatori]

21. Could you give some examples of issues

that you feel specifically DU members are, as a whole, to far left for you? That would help to give me enough info to recommend a site more to your liking.

[thehonesttruth]

54. you can be banished here too.

was at the poll on tax rates and since the winning vote was 70%, when i was last there( yes i know that's on overages of a certain income) that is a rather good "snapshot" of the political climate here, but then hey, look at the home page and you should be able to "grasp" what this site is about.
to answer the original question, free republic, only kidding. moderates don't need web sites, the moderate veiw is to try and please everyone, boring. like a kindergarten class.
but good luck in finding the web-site that's right for you

[NewYorkerfromMass]

6. Not so fast!

there are plenty of moderates here. (Not that I'd admit to being one!) :)

[Gringo]

7. I dunno, but it sounds BORING

n/t

[msanger]

10. education as a political tool

I was actually thinking somewhat along these same lines. But what I was imagining was a
set of web site or or discussion groups that moderates or righties or people with no political
view could visit and get educated.

While I love this site, some of the postings would turn of my mom - who is 78 or so. So what if
we created a web ring of sites to which we could send our friends to educate them about
the evils of the bush empire and the wonders of progressivism.

like which tries to present an only semi-biased view to newbies,
in a way that lets them read main stream stories while still making lefty links available.

[drdigi420]

11. Seems to me so far

That all views are welcome here unless they are unsupportive of religion. That seems to bring on the flames from the holy rollers.

[Merlin]

22. Not to mention the ardent atheists.

n/t

[JohnKleeb]

27. hes a rare bird merlin

most of the DU athiests are tolerant of religion.

[drdigi420]

32. geez, let it rest

we get it, you dont like me because i dont like religion

can you PLEASE stop the personal attacks which are against the rules of this forum?

[IranianDemocrat]

49. I guess tolerance only applies to ethinicity huh?

Spoken like a true marxist.

[Terwilliger]

70. ??

what the hell are you talking about?

[southernfried]

74. tolerence to centrist thought is in short supply

but folks have no problem with Al Sharpton. Thats how I read it.

[Terwilliger]

81. so...Sharpton is what... Why shouldnt he be tolerated?

Centrists are fucking everything up by employing a right-wing strategy for trying to re-take America (Sounds Newt-onian)

At least Sharpton isn't doing those things on a grand scale.

[drdigi420]

78. marxist? because I'm tired of this one person's harassment?

hardly

[Terwilliger]

31. which would those be?

:shrug:

[JohnKleeb]

25. you know I've been here a while so I know people's faith and all

not everyone who condemned you belonged to a religion you got attacked by athiests too. Not me personally but trust me there are a lot of athiests here who do not share your view that religion is evil.

[demnan]

12. I like the Bartcop.com Forum as well

It's not as busy, and I think a bit more centrist.

[HereSince1628]

13. This IS the center.

The rest of the country is just so far to the right it seems like it is the extreme left.

[zoidberg]

19. LOL

But there can only be so many 'should we really support the troops?' type threads before all doubts as to the 'leftness' of this site are removed.

[ulysses]

40. take the red pill, zoid

The question of "supporting the troops" or not is a fake one, designed only to make those who aren't into mindless flag-waving or being led by the nose into supporting stupid military adventures seem like traitors.

Anyway, if you don't like what's posted here, refute it or post your own thoughts. DU is open to the center as much as to the left, and it's only the sum of its members.

[govegan]

87. Left, right, left, right, more to the center please!

Like the center of what?

The whole premise seems rather militaristic to me.

Must we be so bland, and so unquestioning that we are to accept coloration of political dialogue like so many dots on a curve?

How can one's thought be left or right or up or down, like the smile on the face of a demented clown?

Of course, some once believed the planet was central to the universe.

Would that be more to your liking?

Is antiwar sentiment non-patriotic? Is that what you imply?

If that is what you think, you should definitely spend more time investigating DU.

Now, Peter Drucker, the highly esteemed father of modern business management has written a book called "Post-Capitalist Society."

"Post-Capitalist Society deals with the environment in which human beings live and work and learn. It does not deal with the person. But in the knowledge society into which we are moving, individuals are central. Knowledge is not impersonal, like money. Knowledge does not reside in a book, a databank, a software program; they contain only information........The shift to a knowledge society therefore puts the person in the center." Peter Drucker

Hmmmm. An individual person actually having some kind of intrinsic value, a real worth?

Doesn't it all cobble to the bottom line?

I think it is much more like the Spanish poet Antonio Machado wrote:

"People possess four things
that are no good at sea:
anchor, rudder, oars
and the fear of going down."

(Tr. Robert Bly)


People possess four things
that are no good in politics
left, right, center
and the fear of knowledge.

[conservdem]

95. Well said

.

[karlschneider]

16. Far be for me to speak for DU in general, but there are -very- many of us

who tend to be (I describe myself here for illustration) very "liberal" (in the proper sense of the word) on social issues, and fairly "conservative" (in the proper sense, again) fiscally. And, speaking for myself once again, I am an atheist who endorses the teachings of Jesus (and other spiritual icons whether they actually existed or not). That may sound odd, but if you are young, you might not have the experience of having the definitions of both "liberal" and "conservative" essentially perverted by ideology the last few decades.

Stick around. I can guarantee you this much: reading on DU can only increase your knowledge. :D

[TheBigGuy]

33. Oh Carl, cmon.....

you're a socialist ferchissakes....


}(

[karlschneider]

43. No, actually I'm a COMMUNIST!

:D
:evilgrin:

[DemoTex]

61. Comrade Karl ...

I like it. It rather trips off the tongue. The wingnuts in the airline crew room always called me "Comrade." It drove them nuts when I thanked them for the compliment!

[karlschneider]

80. LOL........back when I was flying that old L-18, my boss was a bigtime

Repug. We had gone to a convention in ATL and drinking some. Okay, a lot. I went up to his room at the Regency Hyatt (the one with the big hollow lobby) where he had just ordered 12 dozen hard-boiled eggs (I'm serious here, Mac). I told him I was supporting G. McGovern - he lurched off his chair and physically leaped on top of me screaming that I was a communist and assorted other colorful epithets. It took me a minute to realize he was serious. The irony is that the plane I was flying he had bought from Lyndon Johnson! :D

I've always thought the real reason he wanted it was because it had two bars in the cabin. ;-)

[Terwilliger]

71. he's actually "karl"

[karlschneider]

82. Heh, I don't insist on capitalization. e e cummings didn't.

but it's my real name...which reminds me, I grew up on the next street over from Terwilliger in Tulsa. My mom still lives there.

[catmandu57]

17. What's the matter don't you like us?

Hell we use deoderant and mouthwash. Try the regular Democratic site, see if they're bland enough.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

18. Have you considered asking the DLC to start one?

Maybe they would want those who believe centrist politics is a winner that doesn't alienate the base of the Democratic party to have a place where they feel right at home.

[zoidberg]

28. You mean the same DLC that actually wins elections from time to time?

:)

[Terwilliger]

35. when did they win an election?

Dont talk to me about Clinton...HE was the reason he made it past Poppy and Bob Dole...not the DLC

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

45. Yes the same DLC that lost the Senate in the last election, cautioned

Gore on being too populist which resulted in a hair trigger close election and lost the house for us. An historical accomplishment.

Is this the flame bait you were looking for when you started the thread?

There's a great way to find centrist bbs's otherwise:
www.google.com

[dpbrown]

86. No, the 1 and 3 losing record DLC

Maybe you've heard of them?

One victory (Clinton, though he could have done it without them), followed by three defeats (lost the House, lost the Senate, and stood by while the Presidency was snatched away from the winner of the election).

The DLC lost the House and Senate by playing "copycat" with the Republicans, and touting their 40/40/20 rule, a defeatist piece of work that requires fewer voters each time in a pie that never changes, requiring the parties to snipe each other's voters from each other in pitiful focus-group dissembling campaigns that bore party members (but who cares because they're not the target anyway...), and they let the neocon thugs steal the Presidency because they don't care anyway as long as their corporate fatcats are happy.

DLC = Has-beens destroying democracy.

[TheBigGuy]

Salon Table Talk seemed a bit more left-to-moderate

But it also had its share of rightwingers that liked to get into arguments....

[GOPHater]

20. Try...

The heritage foundation website.

[roughsatori]

24. LOL, then try American Enterprise Institute

If anyone had sense a few times at either of those sites would bring them running back to DU.

[justicebuilder]

23. It's not really about extreme IMO

I am pretty much as far left as you can get. I find much of what's posted here to be ridiculous nonsense. It's just that on the internet, the vast majority of what you get is just half-baked garbage.

On a political forum, that comes across as "radical." But there's nothing radical about being stupid.

jb

[Pastiche423]

30. "find much of what's posted here to be ridiculous nonsense"

Then why are you here?

[zoidberg]

34. Hmmm... that's a really good point

There probably is plenty of noise from people who either want to cause trouble or just don't know any better. I guess when I think about it, my problem isn't that people have strong political feelings, it's that some people really are stupid.

[Pastiche423]

36. What people here at DU are stupid?

The non-conservative types?

[prolesunited]

38. And, gee, we'll be rolling out the welcome mat for you, too!

"It's that some people really are stupid"

I say you should go somewhere more to your liking and leave all of us stupid leftists to our own devices.

:hi:

[KG]

46. bye!

and don't let the doorknob hit ya, where the goddess split ya!

:hi:

[Pastiche423]

50. How can you tell

if someone is tombstoned if they don't have a profile?

[KG]

51. look them up on profile page.

:hi:

[Pastiche423]

57. The profile page says

he/she doesn't exist!

! !

:hi:

[zoidberg]

60. There, I updated my preferences - look me up

I got scared for a minute when I didn't exist.

[Terwilliger]

73. such as yourself

[sandnsea]

26. Help the far left to see the middle

I don't want anybody to change their views, I just think that by understanding the views from far left to far right, we can create a Democratic Platform that will get the public's attention and actually begin to make some changes. That's why I post and challenge people. That's also what I like about DU. It'd be boring to be on a board where everbody thinks just like me, I like to have my thinking challenged too. (but not by crackpot conservatives)

[WilliamPitt]

39. CapitolGrilling.com

has a wide range of folks who post there, including several Freeper types who are fun to kick around. :)

[clar]

41. A really great, even brilliant site is

The Daily Kos. You can't start your own thread, but the conversations that take place there are often galvanizing. I think it's less left doctrinaire than here. I like DU a lot, but The Daily Kos is more thoughtful, lots of (Sorry if this offends) Every week Kos holds a Cattle Call for all the dem candidates. It's a gas. Interesting people often stop by- off the top of my head I can think of Wesley Clark, Jr., Joe Trippi, head honcho over at Dean HQ, and Tacitus who runs a smart blog from a conservative POV. (Yes, there is such a thing) The articles posted by Kos and a couple of others are eminently readable and chock full of good info. Go check it out.

[jonnyblitz]

42. damn, and I always thought DU was a bit too centrist or moderate!! n/t

[MaverickX]

47. Zoidberg, don't leave...

There are other centrists here like me. I'm a Lieberman supporter after all.

[cap]

48. what do you think about the Free Republic...

would that be for people a little bit closer to the center? Please help us accomodate your tastes.

[MaverickX]

53. Free Republic isn't centrist..

What are you smoking?

[cap]

66. As we say in the South...

I'm just funnin' y'all.

[TheUnionDemocrat]

55. I know you're not asking me...

...but I am guessing the logical answer is...

Freely admit that it's VERY far to the Right.

[zoidberg]

56. It's too hard to navigate to even figure out what's going on there

But I'm pretty sure that they are way too extreme to enjoy. I really don't care if I agree with the majority of posters, I'm just looking for good debate. I guess the bottom line is that I'm looking for a site where somebody isn't blasted as a Freeper or accused of posting flame bait just because they think the DLC isn't evil.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

59. There are people here who are moderates

I'm not one of them but aside from a flame war here and there, DU is much more civilized than any yahoo board, and certainly more civilized than Free Republic.

Most people here are pretty rational.

[TheBigGuy]

62. I agree its really tough to figure out Free Republic

I guess the bottom line is that I'm looking for a site where somebody isn't blasted as a Freeper or accused of posting flame bait just because they think the DLC isn't evil.

I, too, was invited to go over to Free Republic by some of the posters here at DU when I was maybe not left enough on a thread.

I lasted about an hour there before I was booted.

Definetly not a moderate site. I think you will find this site, DU, to be more moderate site than Free Republic. ..maybe a more to the left than most folks but there are plenty of moderate folks here, too.

[ursacorwin]

68. don't take this the wrong way

but from that post it sounds like what you need to do is get educated on a few facts.

"good debate" takes place here all the time. what's good about it is that so many actually use FACTS and not opinions when making points, and thus those who are only interested in rhetoric don't last very long. we even have good debates between groups that don't usually debate one another (catholic liberals vs socialist greens, etc.) my point is- when you say debate, do you mean the academic or entertainment version? if it's the latter, well i guess we don't do that so well over here.

and i have to chime in with other posters- ask yourself how you've come to understand the terms "liberal" and "conservative" and other policial labels. the vast, vast majority of political discourse in mainstream outlets is conservative, and often "both sides" of an issue really mean conservative vs. pseudo-fascist. go and educate yourself about the history of left and right in this country, perhaps go read some newspapers from the FDR or JFK period, and come back and tell me that this site is not "centrist" enough.

everything is sooo different now, we almost need to invent new terms.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

69. Well then why don't you start a thread that actually debates issues rather

than paints an entire community with a broad brush. Go to the various other forums on DU. I have seen you forward very little in the way of facts. For that matter, there were and are some excellent debates on threads today.

If you are looking for a particular behavior then generate it. I have posted my BONAFIDE and legitimate issues with the DLC ad nauseum ( so I won't be regurgitating them here) and I have been involved in California politics for two decades. I have lobbied in Sacramento with both Democratic and Republican lobbying organizations in the last 20 years and DU is the only medium on God's green earth where anyone has ever had the NERVE to call me a "far fringed leftist." If you are sincere in wanting a debate on issues and merit then start a thread that invites it. This one did NOT!

How about some personal repsonsibility for the languaging of your initial post and the nature of you generalizations , Zoid? Don't centrists LOVE the idea of personal responsibility?

[Terwilliger]

75. I would NEVER call you a far fringe leftist

:hi:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

76. Yeah but from you that's an insult!

:evilgrin:

[w4rma]

92. If someone calls someone else (including yourself) here on DU a Freeper

Then hit the Alert button at the bottom right of their post. That is a personal attack and it is prohibited by DU's rules:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html
http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/attacks.html

[Kazak]

58. Sure, check this one...

http://www.spinelesswimps.com

:spank:

[Pastiche423]

63. There was a mistake

in your URL.

this one should be correct:

Spineless Wimps

[Andy_Stephenson]

65. centrist.com

perhaps?

[rabid_nerd]

67. Aaah... Everyone's an extremeist

but there's very few un-crossfire-like groups out there unless you go into a group for each specific topic...

[ieoeja]

72. This is going to sound like a joke.

But you could seriously try something like freerepublic. Sometimes when I've spent too many hours over too many days here and find myself questioning my own side, I go over there. It typically takes about 30 seconds to send me screaming back here where the extreme views are at least not stark raving mad (with a few exceptions).

[samsingh]

77. this website is close to the center

it is not left at all.

[lfairban]

83. Googled on: centrist forun

I found the "Centrist Coalition."

http://www.centristcoalition.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=phpBB_14&file=index

[Imajika]

88. Very few political forums...

...are much good.

It really requires constant, babysitter-like moderation and at least a general agreement in worldview of the participants. If you have too wide a range of views on a single forum every thread winds up an out of control flamefest.

"But is there another smart forum that caters to people a little closer to the center?"

Well, I am pretty close to the center on many issues. Quite liberal on social policy, but often fairly conservative on economic and national security issues.

Hey, I think I come from the realistic wing of the Democratic Party, I mostly support the DLC and I dont hate Joe Lieberman.

I know many of the members here might also be considered, or even consider themselves, moderates.

Try to think about it like this. The country is full of the mushy middle. Centrist thought is the majority of America. So political forums are obviously going to attact folks that want to talk about, debate and read things that they can't find by stepping out their front door.

And think about this. Change does not originate at the "center". Sure, moderates usually wind up implementing watered down versions of what trickles up or down to them because of popular sentiment for a given issue. But it is at the ends of the spectrum where all the new ideas come from.

So by participating on DU, you not only get to contribute to an exceedingly well moderated forum - but you get to see great ideas debated now that are years and years ahead of their time.

Lastly, so what if people are more to the left than you. Isn't that a great way for you to learn new things and an entirely new perspective. And if you are even reasonably polite, you will find that you can post your centrist and moderate arguments without any problem. Just be prepared to debate. I have been here for quite a long time and my views are often in the minority, but I think this is the best forum going.

Just my thoughts,

Imajika

[tomp]

90. your paradox

if you think du is too far left, you simply don't know what's going on, and therefore you need to be here. seriously.

[stevedeshazer]

93. Here ya go....

This one's for centrists:

http://www.newamericancentury.org/

[Piperay]

94. I'm more to the center than

a lot of people here but I still feel I fit in and I have never had a problem. Stay awhile, you just might like it here. :-)

[scottxyz]

96. How about Yahoo News

You can post comment there.