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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:57 PM
Original message
Howard Dean: Democratic party "an amalgam of nothingness"
Edited on Sun Apr-18-04 09:57 PM by madfloridian
http://www.vnews.com/04152004/1702679.htm
(2nd article down)
Dean at Dartmouth
Former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean started his fellowship at Dartmouth College
yesterday with breakfast at Lou's in Hanover. After he spoke to a political
science class, Dean talked to a reporter about his post-campaign life, which
includes writing a book and giving speeches, for an undisclosed fee, at
academic settings. He's also got some corporate gigs lined up in Dubai and
London.


Dean declined to offer a post-mortem of his Democratic presidential
campaign -- I'm not going to get into all that. I don't feel like it, and Im not running (so) I can say that now -- other than to say the critical
factor was rival candidate John Kerry's victory in the Iowa caucuses.

We knew whoever won Iowa was going to win the whole thing, Dean said.

Speaking of the Democratic Party:
It's become an amalgam of nothingness
, but I think we want them to really
stand up for Democratic principles, and the way to do that is make sure
people run on the farm team who believe in Democratic principles, Dean
said.
Dean settling into his Dartmouth office.





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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
1. I love Howard
And I'm not gay, but that just hits the nail on the head.

God we need him.
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liberalnurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. Oh yes, indeed we need him so very ,
very much. I weep for the democratic party.....
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
2. The Democratic party: It's become an amalgam of nothingness ..."
Edited on Sun Apr-18-04 10:08 PM by wyldwolf
"... but I really wanted to the nomintion, (sob) wahhhhhhh"

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. LOL.
He said that from the beginning, though,....not those words.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. so... he wanted to represent an amalgam of nothingness?
Hmmmm....

..and notice how in the quote he speaks of the dem party as "they" and not "we."

Is he not a part of the party? Is he not part of the amalgam of nothingness?
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Yes, he is. And is working to change it.
:hi:

I speak of the party as "they" sometimes, and I am a lifelong member.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. I think his quote is a classic case of sour grapes
Edited on Sun Apr-18-04 10:13 PM by wyldwolf
He didn't get something he wanted so bad, so now it must not be worth having.

I differ with him greatly. I don't believe the party is an amalgam of nothingness.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. That is your right to disagree.
I do agree with him, that the party has not been standing for much for a while. I think it is the result of trying not offend the other party.

It could be sour grapes, but since he stated 3 goals from the beginning of his campaign,...then I don't think so.

He said the other day he did not meet Goal 1...to be the nominee.

He said he would keep working on the other two...stated since he first entered the race. They are to remake the party, and to work for change in the country. He has always said he would remake the party. Maybe he should been quieter about it, but he has said that.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. the party has not been standing for much for a while?
C'mon.

First, let's dispense with the IWR and Patriot Act reasoning. Admittedly, the party did cave there but the circumstance in the post 911 world were unique, wouldn't you say? And with public opinion at the time very much in favor of the war, hedging would have been political suicide. The GOP could have picked up even more seats in 2002 and wouldn't we be in an even bigger pickle now?

And surely two issues can't be the total sum of a quote like "amalgam of nothingness."

And that fact that Dean wasn't really against the Iraq war surely disqualifies him using that as a basis for his statement.

But we haven't been standing for much?

We've fillibustered rightwing judicial appointments.
We insisted, pressed, and got 911 hearings
We continue to fight for a woman's right to choose
We worked to create a liberal talk radio network (yes, the DNC was involved in that venture)

on and on...

So, yeah, Dean wanted the nom, he was rejected in the primary process, and now it is just an amalgam of nothingness?

My man, Wesley Clark, didn't get the nod either. But he isn't dissing the party because of it.


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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. Well, Skinner, himself said Kerry was "President of Nothing."
:D...Can't argue with Skinner there, can we?
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Has Kerry been elected president of anything?
nooooo...

But when he is, will American then be "nothing?"
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #23
28. Don't ask me...I didn't say it, Skinner did. n't
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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 01:43 AM
Response to Reply #23
36. Wyldwolf all we ask is that you look at things honestly
Im not sure you will do that.

Its not about Democrat versus Democrat, or Democrat versus REPUBLICAN. Its about courage and conviction versus conventionalism and comprimised leadership.

Okay so you love Kerry and will blindly follow him whereever he leads you. Kerry may be a fine human being, but that is NOT THE ISSUE HERE. Whether you choose to look at the reality or not I believe Dean is right once again.

Are you too narrow-minded in that all you can perceive is something as a dig against Kerry?

JUST look at the statement and exclude your beloved Kerry for a moment. Could you have the capacity to see by any remote possibility that Dean makes a valid point in stating that the Democratic party is suffering from an "amalgam" (sp?) of nothingness, due to the fact the party overall is refusing to take a stand and is finding short term safety in walking the tightrope of talking out of both sides of the mouth. The most pristine example would be Joe Biden. You can find others. Perhaps their heart is in the right place, however it seems more apparent that they are totally out of touch with their heart and soul, and most certainly their conviction.

So why do you continuously attack someone who is courageous enough to name what seems to be a reality of what is epidemic within our own Democratic party.

And we have wonderful people in our Democratic Party and in our Democratic Congress, who are also being bullied and interrogated and intimidated for doing what they think is right. It is up to us as citizens to support them and back them up. AS DEAN HAS SHOWN us by leading as a mentor and example, with both class and commitment to his party and to Americans at large.



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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 01:46 AM
Response to Reply #36
37. Right fucking ON
Beautiful post. THANK you. :)
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 05:09 AM
Response to Reply #36
39. Dreamer
Haterz4Life won't be swayed. Doubt me? Say "Clinton" to a Freeper.

Julie
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 05:12 AM
Response to Reply #36
40. look at things honestly? I have...
Wyldwolf all we ask is that you look at things honestly

I have... what your statement implies is that If I don't see things your way, I'm not being honest.

Could you have the capacity to see by any remote possibility that Dean makes a valid point in stating that the Democratic party is suffering from an "amalgam" (sp?) of nothingness

This entire statement is predicated on your opinion that the Democratic party is suffering from an "amalgam" (sp?) of nothingness.
It is not.

And please refrain from your condescending tone. Kerry is not my "beloved Kerry." He happens to be the man who we hope will defeat the biggest threat we've ever faced.

..the party overall is refusing to take a stand and is finding short term safety in walking the tightrope of talking out of both sides of the mouth.

For example?

The most pristine example would be Joe Biden.

How so? Because YOU don't agree with him? Because he doesn't fit into YOUR mold of what a democrat should say or do?

Perhaps their heart is in the right place, however it seems more apparent that they are totally out of touch with their heart and soul, and most certainly their conviction.

Pure blather. Why not just say, "I don't like what they say or do..." instead of trying to impress with that "heart and soul and conviction" nonsense.

So why do you continuously attack someone who is courageous enough to name what seems to be a reality of what is epidemic within our own Democratic party.

Two points here: Here is someone (Howard Dean), who is attacking the whole Democratic party because he didn't get the nomination but he is above being criticized himself? Dean is not bigger than the party. This is so common among the hero worship among Dean supporters - he gets a free pass to say whatever he wants but to criticize him is to attack him "continuously." And, finally, once again you put forth your opinion that there is a "reality" of an "epidemic" in the democratic party simply because Dean lost.

We've filibustered rightwing judicial appointments.
We insisted, pressed, and got 911 hearings
We continue to fight for a woman's right to choose
We worked to create a liberal talk radio network (yes, the DNC was involved in that venture)
It appears we'll be making an even bigger issue of the Iraq war... none of which Dean had anything to do with...

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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #7
24. The guy's been VERY consistent.
He's been saying that from the very beginning- that's why he was winning to begin with.
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Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #4
31. So, if he won the nomination....would he still say....
It's an amalgam of nothingness?

That's just a weird thing to say. He should be a 1000+
DU'er. He would fit right in here.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 05:14 AM
Response to Reply #31
42. oh, no, see.... that is the point of sour grapes...
"Leading the democratic party wouldn't have been good anyway ... they're just a big 'ol bunch of nothin'!"
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bread_and_roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
3. On that quote
at least, I agree with him.
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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
8. He's right about the amalgam thingy
He hit it on the money.

I saw him on TV again today. Kerry pales in comparison. Rita Cosby tried to shaft Dean, and came right back at her. We need more Dems like that.

Speaking of guts, he went on Fox after having kicked them around like a cheap tin can during the campaign.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Kerry performed much better than he did on Russert
A much more brutal area than Rita Cosby.
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Especially the way he brilliantly agreed with *
on assassinations being justified :eyes:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Kerry did a good job, you are right.
:hi:

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camero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. The problem
We stopped picking the candidates on policy and now pick them by how they "perform" on TV. Oh my how far we have fallen.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. so it is ok to praise Dean for a performance on Rita Cosby and say...
Edited on Sun Apr-18-04 10:32 PM by wyldwolf
...Kerry pails in comparison. But when it is pointed out that Cosby is a lightweight compared to Russert and that Kerry outshined Dean in that arena, we're picking a candidate based on how they "perform" on TV?

Double standard.
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camero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. He was right about alot
The major thing being that Iowa was where the nomination was won or lost. I don't watch TV. And I loath to choose between Corporate whore A and Corporate whore B. George Carlin was definitely right about that.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. well, yeah, we can agree on George Carlin!
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camero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. and you wonder why people don't vote?
There you go right there. We'll just have to agree on that.
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #11
25. My mother, a Kerry supporter (from the BEGINNING),
even says that listening to Kerry makes her sick sometimes (and here she was referring to Meet the Press this morning). Even she says that the guy is too long-winded and not principled enough.

Yeah, she definitely wasn't pleased with him.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. I'm hoping we just need to get used to his style. I had trouble with the
MTP interview also. He is a little "round about" sometimes.
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formernaderite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #29
43. Problem with Kerry, he still sounds like a Senator instead of a President.
They all have this mealy-mouthed way of speaking, more rhetoric than substance. It is definitely hard to warm up to. His wife is another story, despite her upbringing of wealth she has a very warm personality. I wish the campaign would "release" her on the public...seems they're keeping her under wraps for now.
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rumguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
9. I miss Howard
I think his best days are ahead of him...
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MAlibdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
15. Dartmouth!!!!
Money! That's where I'm going next year!

DMOUTH!!! I'm headed up on Thursday!
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 11:16 PM
Response to Original message
26. Well, thank you DEAN.....That's exactly what it is ....I love you Howard.
Even though I'll vote for Kerry,

Once he is in.....He's gonna have hell to pay.

Americans will not tolerate fickle flakyness.

Not after Bush!!!
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John_H Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
27. If he means the Dem leadership completely lack the killer instinct
he's right. If a Dem administration were as bumbling as Chimp's, the'd be polling at about 30 percent because the Rethugs would be relentless.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
30. Thanks for the Dean post, madfloridian. Dean organizers are out there
energizing the "Grassroots" even today. He started a great movement and we will owe much to Dean and Kucinich as we move ahead!

:hi:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #30
32. I am amazed at the groups still organizing.
He said on Fox today that he had a conference call with the Dean campaign leaders throughout CA. They are organizing again in a different form.

I like hearing what the candidates are doing who are not now running. We had a good group of candidates.

I know our meet-ups under a new name, dfa, are still going strong, and we keep our email list for our area as well.

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notbush Donating Member (616 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. I was (still am) a Deanie
I've tried to support Kerry.
I'm looking at Nader.
I think Kerry either started running to the middle too early or he will just say whatever he thinks the "public" wants to hear.
The "public" not the "democratic party".
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loyalsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 01:02 AM
Response to Original message
34. We don't need this
I hate to hear this negativity coming from him now. Now is the time to rally people. We need to light fires under chairs and get people motivated. In order to accomplish that, people need to feel optimistic about their candidates. If the grassroots is going to swing into action, people have to believe in who and what they are working for. People don't send money or donate their time to an "amalgam of nothingness." This statement really seems to be the antithesis of what Dean's campaign was about.
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. He's seeing the Dems just trying to go back to "the way things were
before." They're trying to get comfortable in their misery again. They don't want to fight. They don't want to TAKE leadership from Bush. They want Bush to self-destruct and be lucky enough to have leadership of the country fall in their lap. They're lazy-ass fat-cats. Things are good for them even without their self-respect so long as the status-quo is protected.

I don't blame Dean for being disallusioned.
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loyalsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 02:34 AM
Response to Reply #35
38. I understand, too
I just think it's important to present a positive message right now. Putting out a bunch of negative boohoo stuff will deflate the grassroots movement entirely.
Politics is all about public presentation. We've got to focus on a positive direction and optimism or people won't think it's worth the time to vote or give it a thought who is in the WH next. No matter what negatives we see in the Dem party, the difference is real and a chinge in administration WILL matter.
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mandyky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 05:13 AM
Response to Original message
41. This is why it is impossible for me to _actively _ support
Kerry. I _still_ have no F&*^ing clue where he stands on issues. He seems to be pandering without principles. I would love to be able to write long letters to undecided voters like I did for Dean, but there is only so many times one can say we have to get rid of shrub.
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 08:44 AM
Response to Original message
44. Remember when a "firebrand" candidate was in the race?
But pooh-pooh, tah-tah, the Dems decided they'd rather have a "dignified" "patrician" BBBBBBBBBBOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRRRIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNGGGGG candidate.

And read all the articles about farmers, middle-roaders, seniors, college students. The ones who have woken up to the fact that Smirk is a menace and will definitely not vote for him, don't see anything in Kerry to make them vote for him. So they probably won't vote at all. Way to go Kerry.

Did Kerry hire Gore's people to run his campaign?
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