Woodward is a joke....

[dennis4868]

I have not read the book and I did not even see 60 Minutes tonight but I have been reading posts at DU tonight and what bothers me the most from all of this is that Woodward, like the rest of thre fucking media whores, gives Bush a pass on the lies by Bush and his thugs why we had to immediately go to war with Iraq. Correct me if I am wrong, but in the book Woodward says that Tenet tells Bush that the WMD is a "slam dunk." So it seems like Woodward, like the rest of the media whores that we have come to know and love, have passed on the blame with regards to this issue to Tenet, and not Bush!

But the truth is that most everyone thought Saddam had some sort of WMD program or even some small amount of WMD leftover from the 1990s UNSCOM inspectors. So when Tenet tells Bush that it is a slam dunk that Saddam has WMD that is not the point.

But what Woodward does not tell you in his book is that Tenet/CIA NEVER told Bush that Saddam was an immediate threat who could attack our homeland in 45 minutes, mushroom cloud, nuclear weapons, uranium from Niger, alluminum tubes, unmanned drones that could be used to carry WMD to the homeland, etc.... Even though Tenet and the CIA and the NIE never stated any of this Bush still went ahead and told Congress and the rest of the world all these lies. Does Woodward in his book state that Bush lied about all of this? NOPE!

In addition, no intelligence agency said that there was a Saddam/al Qaeda connection or 911 connection, but Bush sure wanted all of us and Congress to believe this. As a matter of fact, the NIE stated the opposite of this but Bush stillw ent ahead and distorted the facts. Does Woodward's book mention this? Nope!

Does Woodward's book mention that many intelligence agencies, not just some intelligence officers, disputed much of what Bush and what the NIE stated in thr run up to the war? Nope!

The problem is that many people who do not pay attention to the facts of the lies about the reasons for the Iraq war will read Woodward's book and give Bush a pass even though he lied and violated the very Resolution that authorized Bush to go war....the Resolution, as many in the media have ignored, was conditioned that Bush, within 48 hours after the start of the war, report to Congress to prove that Saddam was an imminent threat that could not be dealt with through diplomacy and that Saddam had a connection to 911. As John Deans states in his book, Bush report to congress after the war would be laughable if it was not so serious. It was based on all lies! Does Woodward mention any of this in his book? NOPE AGAIN!

Please do not read Woodward puff piece in his new book!

[skooooo]

1. Ok..so you didn't read the book..

...or listen to what he had to say. I'm sorry, that's enough for me to know not to read the rest of what you wrote. Maybe what Woodward wrote in his book is 100% correct. Who cares what you think of him, or if you like him when you can't even listen to what he's saying?

[dennis4868]

2. I have read....

excerpts from his book and from that I see that Woodward is giving Bush a pass on the lies about why we went to war...that is laughable! We all know the facts tells us that Bush DID LIE! i DON'T HAVE TO READ THE ENTIRE BOOK OR WATCH 60 MINUTES TO KNOW THAT WOODWARD IS A LAP DOG FOR BUSH....NUFF SAID!

[skooooo]

10. I'll listen to the 60 minute interview...

The book has just been released on April 19th, so that tells me NO ONE on here has read it. Excerpts or not, I don't think you can make a judgement until you read the whole thing. And I will do the same. Until then, I want to hear what he says and not someone else's interpretation of him.

[DemoTex]

16. Would you rather he not have written it?

Would you rather that we have nothing to fight this rapacious regime with, in the months and perhaps (shudder the thought) years to come? I was once caught in a hell-storm on the Aegean in a 50-foot sloop. That's what I feel like now. The island of Poros wasn't where I really wanted to go, but - hey! hell! - any port in the storm. You need to reef some canvas, buddy.

[dennis4868]

28. I am glad he wrote it....

I guess....I have a friend in Walter Reed hospital now who now only has one leg...the issue of the lies about why we went to war is a hot issue for me...really makes me angry and Woodward giving Bush a pass on this issue makes me want to SCREAM!

[DemoTex]

37. I understand my friend. I am equally as frustrated.

I have been for 35 years. My friends are still in Laos (alive or dead?), in the VA hospitals (they "live" there), and on The Wall (as final as it gets). I am truly sorry about your friend at Walter Reed. I'm glad to have someone as angry as you on our side. You, like me 30-some-odd-years ago, will have to channel that anger. Don't lose it, I never did. But if I had stayed as angry as I was in the early 1970s, I'd be - at best - a wino at a stew-pot now.

[Political_Junkie]

31. very well put.

Sure he may be giving Bush a pass. He seems like he actually likes the bum and doesn't want to get him into trouble, but still some of the things he has said are damning to Bush. We can use it, that's all that matters!

[mouse7]

51. ...which would be almost exactly how Colin Powell seems to feel.

I'm getting more and more of an impression that the Woodward book is basically Colin Powell's book.

[SuffragetteSal]

43. read the book dennis and then get back to us...

you heard me.

[freetobegay]

4. I agree skooooo

You know what that sounds like to me?

[skooooo]

11. What?

[freetobegay]

15. Who else would make a blatent statement like that?

Hint we are not allowed to talk about them here.

[skooooo]

21. Hmmmm.....

Freepers?


Satan??


Mad democrats?

I dunno.

[dennis4868]

29. HUH?

do you think I am a Freeper? hahaha!

[Tellurian]

55. Woodward has enough on Bush already...

The book must have gone to print in Jan or Feb..

At that time, Bush was still stonewalling the 911 Commission.

Revelations have been made by the 911 commission since then, as well as, former Ambassador Joe Wilson coming forward stating Bush LIED in the SOU Address, when he said Iraq had WMD.

[alcuno]

3. Do you think Tenet was interviewed for the book?

I can't believe the CIA Director was one of those interviews. Sounds more like *'s "recollection."

[nolabels]

46. Woodward reiterated at nausea how Tenet said it was a SLAM DUNK

Sounded exactly like a phrase directly out of the squatters anti-intellectual vocabulary. In that CBS interview Woodward off-handedly let everybody know about Chimpy's secret weapon.

He let us know that the disdain that * has for people who know how to get a clue (thinks of them as intellectuals).

The disdain it seems comes from * thinking that forethought was something that * could never possess so he is going to practice intellectual Judo (which means he will try ignore people who he thinks might be able to outsmart him). It sounds like * is going to out-intellectualize smart people by being dumb ( but of course, this sounds like nothing new )

[mouse7]

56. I'd bet Powell was told Tenat said it was a slam dunk.

Like I said earlier, I believe the Woodward book is really basically Powell's book. I imagine we will have to wait until Tenat's book to find out what Tenat thought.

[nolabels]

59. If Powell wanted to retain any shred of Honor to his name he needs.......

To resign immediately. I heard some retired admiral on the radio today that laid out the Powell policy or criteria for wagging a war when he served as Leader of the Joint Chiefs of Staff for the US Military. It all made perfect sense and is exactly what *co is not doing.

Selling yourself out for to get on the bandwagon or just for loyalties sake is a stupid way to run your life in the light that you would have known what your doing is totally wrong.

It is no wonder they picked him up to be Secretary of State, they knew when pushed come to shove he could be depended on to do a Mai Lai

[troublemaker]

Isn't this post rather a waste of everyone's time?

Since you start with saying you've not having read the book, why not stop there, rather than wildly guessing what you think isn't in it and then telling people not to read it?

[dennis4868]

9. Like I said....

I read excerpts from the book and have read posts about his 60 minutes interview and from that I can tell that Woodwards is giving Bush a pass on the lies why we went to war. AM I WRONG ABOUT THAT? I wish I was....

[pinto]

5. I didn't finish your post.

[FlashHarry]

6. See here:

With all due respect, you're wrong.

You should have watched the piece. It was very damning--specifically on three issues:

1. Bush took $700,000,000 from the treasury for Iraq war preparations without Congressional approval. As Woodward pointed out, this specifically contravenes the US Constitution

2. The Saudis secretly agreed to lower oil prices just prior to the November election, in order to make sure the US economy is in an upswing. Plus, Saudi Prince Bandar was shown top-secret war planning information that was labeled No Foreign, and he was told two days before Powell.

3. It illustrated that Bush truly feels he's on a "mission from God." This was not presented positively. Rather, it was presented very ominously, as if he is seriously unbalanced.

This was a good piece. Sure, it's not the whole story, but it was a double-slot on 60 Minutes, the country's top-rated news program.

[dennis4868]

13. I wish...

I had watched it....and all the pointrs you bring up are damning against Bush....but I am talking only about the WMD/911 connection issue and if I am wrong than I am wrong...just seems to me after reading excerpts from the book and post here at DU it seems to me that Woodward is baling everyone but Bush for the lies. AM I WRONG?

[FlashHarry]

20. Nah. This is EXTRA stuff!

This is--if you'll pardon the term--actionable information. Specifically, the extra-congressional appropriating of funds for the Iraq war plan.

[skooooo]

18. Exactly...Dennis didn't like Woodward's last book...

...but that doesn't mean you shouldn't have an open mind, and listen to what he's saying now. My opinion is is that Woodward did a bait and switch on Bushie, letting him feel like he could let his guard down. Now Woodward's coming out with the shit.

[FlashHarry]

23. Possibly.

But I think it's more of a case of Woodward blowing with the wind--like Renault in Casablanca. In this case, the wind is blowing from the Left. He's hoping to sell books, and he sees Clarke's book at the top of the charts, along with the House of Bush, House of Saud book, Al Franken's book, and others.

[skooooo]

30. Err...I'm not ready to write off the man who brought Nixon down...

...I'm sure he likes making money, but, really!! I think Woodward has a bit more going on than just that.

[FlashHarry]

41. I hope you're right!

[kiahzero]

52. Um, it takes a long time to write a book

There's no way that the way Clarke's book has been selling would influence the book. Al Franken's, maybe.

[stumblnrose]

44. Bush is so keeeewwwwwl

When you intellekkktual types wanna analyze well he just does it. That's what I heard. Bush is a prayerful man who takes his hands out of his pockets and says Fuck history. Get the bastard. That is the sign of a real star man in my America. Screw the constitution.

[annagull]

7. You really should watch the interview

before making your judgements. The scene you describe comes across in the interview as Bush knowing that they didn't have squat for evidence, the "slam-dunk" was in reference to what they could sell "Joe Public". In other words, Bush knew it was a lie but went along anyway. Very damning, as well as the other revelations Woodward made.

[0007]

8. Woodward is a journeyman journalist - junior is a failure

Woodward is sane, junior is insane. No one has died at the hand of Bob Woodward, can 'ya say the same about junior?

[emulatorloo]

12. You are wrong. . .

Here are some hi-lites:

Bush violated the constitution by funding his iraq war plan with money earmarked by Congress for Afghanistan.

Bush approved showing top secret docs marked "no foreigners" to Prince Bandar of Saudi Arabia.

Bush cut a deal with Saudi Arabia to manipulate gas prices in time for the 2004 election to make the economy appear strong.

Bush believes that God told him to liberate the people of Iraq, and he is on a mission from God to remake the world.

Just summarizing, and no, Bob Woodward does not think any of the things I listed here are 'good things'

[dennis4868]

19. But am I wrong...

about the issue of the lies why we went to war? It seems like Woodward is baling everyone for the lies but Bush? Am I wrong about that? I wish I was cause Bush deserves to be held accountable for his lies and violation of federal law and the constitution for lying to congress and the country about war!

[annagull]

26. Dennis--the point is BUSH KNEW!

When he tells Tenet "That's all you got?" and "We can't sell that to Joe Public", Tenet tell him "It's a slam dunk".
In other words Bush knew the evidence was bullshit and Tenet tell him they can sell it! That is what came thru in the interview.

[dennis4868]

32. Well if that is the case...

than I am wrong...."nevermind." But it did seem like Woodward was baling everyone else for the lies but Bush...I hope I was wrong because I want to see Bush pay the price for his criminal lies!

[chookie]

34. Sorting out different accounts.

One thing that Woodward attempts to do in this book is to cover George W's ass by documenting that the Iraq war was planned *after* Sept 11. Clarke's account, and Paul O'Neill, on the other hand, have both revealed that planning the Iraq war began as early as Jan 2001.

Clarke and O'Neill do provide different tellings of the role of Tenet. Clarke describes him as obsessed with terrorism and energetically trying to get Bush to work with him on it, whereas O'Neill tells of a Tenet who attended the Jan 2001 meeting with satellite photos that he claimed were of Iraqi WMD factories.

In any case, what both accounts have in common is that Bush is FINALLY levelling with the American people that Iraq was not "because of Sept 11" but part of a larger plan, and is softening them up for the idea that he intends to lead America into a prolonged regional war in the Middle East -- what he calls his "comprehensive plan to eradicate terrorism" but which others refer to as The Big Mistake or The New Quagmire.

The dust hasn't settled on this one yet.

Not sure about the God stuff either. Might be a trial balloon they are sending out to "test" whether religious Americans (I do not mean religious American wackos) will get behind the idea of a divinely inspired crusade. My analysis of this experiment is building the Republican base: it will fail, because just because people may possess profound religious faith does not mean that they have completely surrendered their powers of rational judgement. Truly, in most Americans, the two co-exist. If people haven't been sold on the "Bush is nuts!!" stuff we have been on to all this time, I think they're starting to get a sense of it now.

Better start thinking about what color gown you are going to wear to the Kerry inauguration, folks.

[troublemaker]

38. Two kinds of planning

They came into office wanting war with Iraq, as Clarke and O'Neill say.

The kind of planning and authorizing Woodward is talking about is the kind that costs hundreds of millions of dollars to do.

[emulatorloo]

42. Wanting it versus secretly building airstrips in Kuwait

EOM

[chookie]

47. Yikes

(I missed the first 15 minutes of the interview)

Damning stuff.

He may still pass it off as part of his "comprehensive plan to stop swatting flies and eradicate terrorism once and for all" plan -- but Woodward's revelations are going to lose him a lot of support among the sane.

So -- what will you be wearing to the Kerry Inauguration?

[sandnsea]

14. Excellent points

But do remember, we don't know exactly what's in the book because I don't think anybody has read it yet. I would say Woodward's claims add to your points. And the truth is, sometimes American people are swayed by the silliest things. After the absolute scandalous string of lies, it would be poetic justice if the thing that got him ousted is his lovefest with the Saudi's. Or his own religiosity. People get that stuff clearly. NIE's, most people wouldn't even know where to find them. Not even on this board.

[Gman]

17. You say...

"The problem is that many people who do not pay attention to the facts of the lies about the reasons for the Iraq war will read Woodward's book and give Bush a pass..."

Why would someone that doesn't "pay attention" buy Woodward's book? I think everyone that buys the book is doing so because they do pay attention. Are you saying someone who is clueless would walk into Borders and say, "Hmmm, I think I'll read this book for absolutely no reason except I like the picture on the cover?"

[dennis4868]

27. What I meant was....

that many people like to read Woodward but they do not neccessarily follow Bush's crimes like we do here at DU....Woodward, whether we like it or not, is a very repsected joournalist and when the average person goes to Barnes and Noble they will pick up his book and buy it because Woodward wrote it...not because they are like us here at DU who know the truth about Bush!

[cornermouse]

22. What he said was that the same G.W. Bush who has

his finger on the button that can blow us all to kingdom come is nuts, that he engaged in price-fixing with the Saudis to throw the up-coming election, and that he surreptitiously took money away from the Afghanistan War and the hunt for bin Laden who did attack this country and used it to build the beginning steps of his own private little war in Iraq; the war which has now cost us the lives of over 700 people who did NOT need to die.

If there is any way I can get this book, I will.

[Tactical Progressive]

24. That's my perception of Woodward as well.

The whole media is that way.

The truckful of blatant, offensive lies that BushCo spewed unrelentingly for a year doesn't mean anything to them. If someone told Bush one thing that might have been vaguely, tangentially correct, then Bush remains their war hero. If one piece of information wasn't blatantly, obviously incorrect, then Bush remains their war hero.

American journalism has become, on a fundamental level that disgraces all of them, a culture that is a self-righteous propagator of all of the worst right-wing myths that corrode the very fabric of this country at its deepest moral and ethical base. They have my eternal contempt.

[madrchsod]

25. the real joke is that nothing will be done

he`ll still get 50% of the vote and win the election.congress won`t do anything the american people won`t do anything. they`ll just take and they`ll like it. as long as the price of gas goes down who cares what he`s done...

[napi21]

36. I don't believe that!

There are a faithful group of Bush followers who will support him no matter what, but there are enough Pubs that are reasonable moderates who will be very upset by his actions. They may not vote for a Dem, but simply stay home out of disgust. That's why I don't think he will get his squeeky 50%.

Because there have been sooo many reports, books, and accusations, you MAY even see him lose the support of some of the moderates in Congress. We'll see.

AND, the 9/11 Commission report isn't done yet.

Don't let up on the pressure, but don't be so pessemistic either. It's looking better every day.

[tedzbear]

33. To get Bush to talk we know Woodward had to promise him a whitewash.

Otherwise Woodward would have gotten nothing. What IS interesting is the spin this is getting at CNN, etc.

It looks like one more time Tenet is being made the fall guy, thanks to the "slam dunk" comment. The niceties of whether slam dunk meant a small amount of weapons or the huge amount that Cheney, Powell, and Rumsfield claimed, is up to Tenet to declare.

By the time these liars end up pointing their fingers at each other we will all be thoroughly confused which is exactly what they want. Meanwhile, Baghdad is burning and the Islamic world hates us...

[peacetalksforall]

35. I'll catch the video of the interview, however something is bothering me

I have believed with all my gut that Bush is handled...that he doesn't know enough to make decisions and that he was selected because of a charismatic link with certain voter blocs.

What you're repeating from this interview is that Bush calls some shots - possibly the most morbid ones and that he called the shots about the money.

This means that Cheney et everyone does his bidding.

Something is wrong with that picture.

I don't trust Woodward...I'm on a wait and see with him...

and a wait and wait about all the deaths.....

and a scary feeling in my heart.

[Disturbed]

39. Deaths

"the war which has now cost us the lives of over 700 people who did NOT need to die."

Of course, 10,000 dead Iraqis don't need to be mentioned.

[pretzel4gore]

40. there's something uniquely awful about bush

a very bad stench accrues to those who championed him; like this woodward goof.

[Catt03]

45. Watching the 60 minutes interview with Woodward scared me

I can accept some gray areas in politics but the points that I heard in the interview and referenced on this thread (Flash #6)are very frightening.

I have thought about all this and started kind of feeling sorry for Bush. He is a small man, intellectually and morally, and I think that all the people behind him knew it in 2000. I concluded that Bush was not capable of being president and he knew it. In fact, I am not sure he even wanted to be. The blame goes to Cheney, Armitage (sic) Rumsfield, and all those other old politicos who most likely decided that all he had to be was a figurehead and they would run the government. I also specifically blame the Supreme Court conservatives
for their choice of Bush.

We can call Bush all kinds of names and make fun of his inability to govern or lead but it is much more critical than just that. I believe we are on the edge and something has to be done. We must win in November.

[spanone]

48. You should watch.....it was no fluff piece.

I thought Woodward was convincing and very damamging. You should watch the interview before you condemn it.

[nomatrix]

49. Go read it, since you didn't watch

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/15/60minutes/mai...

Once you are done, and you still believe he's kissing butt, go to this

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/08/29/politics/main...

Even congress knew something was up. Goggle up Bandar Cheney Rumsfeld Bush any of those combinations. See who met with who.

The most damaging part of the interview, I thought, was that Bush is on this God & Me mission. Doesn't need anyones advice to decide.

This is not part of the constitution, which he swore to uphold. No matter what, when you are sworn in, this is what you pledge. The pledge of lower prices on oil from Bandar for the election. I think you could read the interview and get a different opinion.

[dennis4868]

50. Thanks....

for the links....

[Alpha Wolf]

53. Are you suggesting....

that this Woodward book was written to help Bush?

[dennis4868]

54. Actually.....

yes I am....Woodward seems to be baling everyone in the Bush WH except Bush himself....that Bush is this really nioce guy with true intentions and he has all these bad people around him. So yeah, I am saying he is helping Bush himself but not others in the administration.....

[Tellurian]

57. An Impeachment investigation will straighten that out...

now won't it..

have you e-mailed you're Representative asking for a full investigation yet?

[dennis4868]

58. I spoke to Senator...

Sarbanes about a month ago at an affordable housing conference in MD.....plus I have emailed and called my other Senator and Representative from my district....there will not be impeachment unless the media truly gives this story legs and stopns blaming everyone else in the WH except Bush....