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Carolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 07:40 PM
Original message
Spare me, Bob Woodward
Bush prayed over the war, prayed for forgiveness and did not seek counsel from Poppy but rather from a Higher Power ... hint, hint, hint.

This 60 Minutes interview with Woodward on his book Plan of Attack is nauseating. I wish it were more damning but he's far too mild.

Bush, Inc waged an assault on a nation that did nothing to us, posed no threat ... WHY DOESN'T HE SAY THAT?!
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BGrier Donating Member (94 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
1. I disagree.
It's not damning? I think it makes Bush like a nutjob.

Not to mention funneling cash to the Iraq war planning without the knowledge of congress is unconstitutional.
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prodigal_green Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Without Checks and Balances
There isn't a thing we can do about it. As long as Republicans are in charge in Congress, he'll get away with everything.

I'm at work right now, so I can't see the broadcast, but from the posts that are going up, it sounds pretty scary.
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pinkpops Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. I agree * - by Woodward's account GWB was getting his orders
Edited on Sun Apr-18-04 07:47 PM by pinkpops
from God. Possible, I suppose, but more likely he is nuts.


* that is - I agree with you when you disagree.
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Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #5
38. Bush's "direct communication" from God, was part of Wes Clark's...
stump speech in his last 6 wks of campaigning.

Score another one for Clark.

Any other Clarkies here remember this as well?
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Qanisqineq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #38
42. I remember!!!
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Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #42
58. Kick, then
:kick:
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ikojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Oh but it's Bush so nothing will happen.
The Democrats wont say anything or call for an investigation (before anyone says they are a minority party and cannot call for an investigation...I remind them that the pugs were a minority party when they started investigating Clinton.)

The average American will see Bush's praying as a good thing. They will see it as seeking divine guidance and looking to God and not man for the answers to difficult decisions.
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Qanisqineq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. I thought the funneling cash
was outrageous. I have been pissed off for a year and thought I was at the breaking point, but when I heard that, I knew that was the last straw. That made it all hurt so much worse. When he was talking about Dubya praying after the war started, I screamed at my TV, "fuck you Bush!" I couldn't control myself. My husband spent 10 months in Iraq. Friends are still in Iraq. More than 700 dead Americans, countless Iraqis, plus coalition troops. Fuck him.
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Carolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. yes, the cash, the Saudi Ambassador Bandar ...
all damning stuff BUT he still portrays Bush as someone praying over this. That's all some people need to hear.

Believe me, where I live Bush gets a friggin pass on so much because people say: He's a good Christian!

Woodward just added that fuel to fire!
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theHandpuppet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #1
49. I totally agree...
It made GWB sound like a total whack job. The only thing missing was the theme music for "The Twilight Zone".
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
2. You're watching the wrong channel.
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AngryWhiteLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 07:45 PM
Response to Original message
4. We just got fed the path to impeachment, and you want to deflect...?
Get a clue. This is an opportunity, not a reason to kill the messenger. Trust me, the Freepers will be in search and destroy mode on Woodward. Why do we need to help them?

JB
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freetobegay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Mutual self destruction?
eom
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Carolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #4
23. I do have a clue
he'll get another pass 'cause he's a good Christian.

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AngryWhiteLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. Well...I guess the Anti-Christ would be perceived as Xian...at first.
Personally, I don't believe in a mythical being called "God" and feel that religion has been used throughout time to justify the killing of others. I don't believe Bush is the Anti-Christ, but what scares me is "he may think that he's the Anti-Christ or the second coming of Christ" and that's terrifying.

JB
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Carolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #4
24. path to impeachment ...not
with a repuke congress.

Also I do have a clue; Bush the good Christian will get another pass.
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FlashHarry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
7. Woodward: "There's a little document called The Constitution."
That was pretty damning, I thought--basically accusing the President of treason.
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oldlady Donating Member (513 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
8. damning in a way that matters
you must not have watched what I watched...
that quiet, factual, non-hysterical interview you just heard---
that's how truth sounds.
maybe we were beginning to forget, beginning to fail to recognize the sound.

this is damning--- in a way that matters, not in the fly-by-ratings way so many shows are...

peace
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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Welcome to DU
From another old lady. :hi:

And I agree, this is very very damning.
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #8
19. And another old lady here.
Welcome! :hi:
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #8
28. Welcome to DU, Oldlady! Great post!
:pals:
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Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #8
29. And welcome from another one.
Wow! We got a lot of old ladies here. But not too old to :bounce:
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Kukesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. One More Oldie-But-Goodie
Welcome! (I'm new, too.) Hey "girls," maybe we ought to get some protest signs made and march like we did back in the 60's!

Keep the faith; cool; groovy ...I'm sure you get the message.

Kukesa
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watercolors Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #8
33. welcome oldlady
join the rest of us ole ladies. You are right on with your post. I hope the phones are all ringing in the halls of congress tomorrow. I will be calling my senators for some answers!
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ModerateMiddle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #8
39. I agree as well
This is how "non-partisans" talk. This IS how "the truth" sounds. Factual reporting, from a well-respected WP reporter who already brought down one president.

You're right that there will be people who see Bush's "mission" as being from God, and see Bush's humility before that God as a good thing.

The vast majority of people will see someone a bit off balance.

Maybe more than a bit.
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #8
48. It's how they want the truth to sound...the planning for Iraq goes back...
...prior to the 2000 elections. Additionally, the Pentagon ALWAYS has contingency plans updated and ready to go at the drop of a hat.

But, there is meat on the impeachment table...$700 million worth.
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
11. Woodward is an establishmentarian now
This is not the Bob Woodward of 1973, who boldly stood up to one of the most dangerous and vindictive White Houses in history. The Bob Woodward of the 21st century has a lot of money, is a senior editor at a corporate media conglomerate and gets very cozy with elites.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #11
22. The Bob Woodward of 1973 was not who you think he was.
He was in Naval Intelligence before he was hired at the Post. He was working for a faction of the Oligarchy that wanted Nixon out, which included the Bush Sr./CIA faction.

There's deep politics going on here, count on it.

sw
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #22
47. Bingo. Stand by for heavy rolls.
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
13. I disagree with `ya Carolina
Woodward shows us a nut case.
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Carolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. thanks
I guess I should have added the point that we have a nation of people who will give Bush a pass because he's is a good Christian and that segment with still photos and Woodward talking vrap about a higher power simply added fuel to the fire.

Yes, there was damning stuff but then it's like, hey guys it's OK cause he prayed ...

We at DU hear the damning stuff, the media however doesn't play it up.

Woodward's depiction of Bush, THE MAN people will vote FOR in a few months was not DAMNING ENOUGH for me. Think back to the language and vitriol about Clinton over a blowjob and here we're talking money funneling, Saudi connections and WAR and it's oh so friggin civil and mild.

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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. I despise people who excuse him from his crimes by
Edited on Sun Apr-18-04 08:06 PM by Ilsa
invoking Jesus' name. Why can't people see through him? He's as transparent as anything.
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keithyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
14. Forgive me, Father, I am about to sin.....?
What a bunch of crap! Bush is a friggin lunatic and Woodward is a lap dog stooge. I am sure Hitler did the same thing.
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
15. I respectfully disagree
anyone who believes it is the United States duty to free other people has got a real problem.

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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
17. Of course he's "mild"
Edited on Sun Apr-18-04 07:54 PM by scarletwoman
I can't get 60 Minutes, our local affiliate is running tornado and severe thunder/hail/windstorm watches and warnings. (A good one passed through my area a couple hours ago -- lots of wind and hail.)

Anyway, I do want to see this. However, I already know that I don't trust Woodward, have not trusted him for many years. I have long believed that he works for bushco.

Notice that the bush attack machine has NOT gone after Woodward, and excerpts and quotes have been all over the place for days. This is not like with Clarke, when it all burst out at once.

I'll have a better idea if I'm right if it ever comes on here. What I'm suspecting so far -- admittedly based ONLY on excerpts and reports -- is that this book is a judas goat. It LOOKS like it might be dangerous, in company with other recent books like The Price of Loyalty and Against All Enemies, but the thing to watch is what happens to Woodward.

AND ABOVE ALL, watch what happens to Powell and Tenet. THEN you'll know who is on who's side in the Oligarchy's current factional battle.

sw
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Political_Junkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. good point
they haven't gone after him. Question now is, why not?
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MoonRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #20
30. Could it be they want the excuse to get rid of him?
I didn't see the program, but I did live through the last 3 years of death and destruction. Even Repukes must be noticing the nightmare that * has ushered in.
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chookie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #20
52. This is something to use to gauge his role
Woodward's book is not flattering, but at least it offers a post-Sept 11 scenario to the planning of the war on Iraq, whereas Clarke and O'Neill/Suskind have revealed that invading Iraq was on the table as early as Jan 2001.

If they try to crucify him in the days to come, we'll know he got a teensy bit too close to the truth.

He may have been using the "trust" he had after he had written the fawning "Bush at War" to act as a trojan horse behind the scenes. OR he might be trying to discredit the Clarke and O'Neill timelines.

In any case -- all of this stuff is forcing Bush to finally get honest with the American people that he is leading them into a prolonged regional war in the Middle East.

As far as the "God stuff" -- gee, I know there are a lot of religious wackos out there who will love that stuff, but I this it is questionable whether people who possess powers of critical judgement as well as deep faith are going to feel comfortable with a president who rejected turning to men of knowledge and experience to advice him on such a grave matter as war, but instead solely trusted the voice of the Almighty, who just by coincidence was urging him to go ahead with what he had been planning all along anyway.
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TruthIsAll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #52
54. They can't go after Woodward. They know who he represents.
Reality is settling in. The rats will soon be running for cover.

This is not Clarke. This is not O'Neil. This is not Wilson.

This is the wrath of God.
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #20
55. Wait til tomorrow
Edited on Sun Apr-18-04 09:28 PM by emulatorloo
this is different from the insider books in that they weren't sure in advance exactly what it contains. The interview was pretty mindblowing. I bet their minds are blown.

on edit grammar
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Sticky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #17
57. Scarlet woman, I was saying this yesterday
The whitehouse response will be the true indicator of Woodward's agenda.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

So far there's nothing like what was heaped upon O'Neill and Clarke.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #57
59. Thanks!
I'm definitely curious to see how this plays out...

sw
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Kadie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
18. bushie is looking for that final war
he is looking for the end of the world, and he wants to lead the way.

This should scare the daylights out of people, to see where his head is really at.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
26. Woodward...media whore pig..CIA operative appologist for the Chimp! n/t
Edited on Sun Apr-18-04 08:08 PM by KoKo01
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Carolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #26
32. glad some of us can see it
thanks.

BTW, everyone. Why in hell do you think insiders gave Woodward such free access? They're so secretive otherwise and they have NO reason to like good ole Bob since he helped bring Tricky Dick down and remember many of them got their start in political dirty tricks under Nixon (Mark Crispin Miller's Bush Dyslexican is very good on this).

So if this is all so damning, so impeachable ... why'd they open their pie holes to him??!!
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #32
50. Because it's time to cut Junior loose...he has failed miserably,...
...just like Nixon did.
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OKNancy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
34. Woodward is a reporter
He is not a political commentator. It's our place to listen to what he says and decide for ourselves. I swear, some people must get him mixed up with Bill Kristol.
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Carolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. No he's crossed over the line
from being a mere reporter. I know who he is and remember Watergate. In fact I grew up near the Watergate complex and used to go to the famed Howard Johnson's directly across the street for clams and maple walnut ice cream ... oh so good back then. But I digress ...

I think most people here know full well who he is, so there's no confusion despite the fact that you're right, he bears a striking physical resemblance to wingnut Bill Kristol.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #34
41. Winner of the MWO award for 2003 - author of "10 Days in September"
and another fawning book: "Bush at war"
he earned all the lack of credibility one can have

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OKNancy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. Did you read Veil or
The Brethren? Both scathing books. I didn't read his Dan Quayle bio, but I heard it wasn't too flattering. Bush at War had some unflattering parts in it too, nobody seemed to report them however.

I have no problem with Woodward. There are worse. And if anyone thinks the 60 minute interview was "fawning", they sure didn't see what I saw.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. The "unflatering" bits were hyped in the media - just like now
Edited on Sun Apr-18-04 08:55 PM by robbedvoter
to get liberals to fork money for his BS
Do me a favor: don't spend a penny on it until you have a look. A week from now.
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #34
51. He's a behind-the-scenes operative...always remember that.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
35. Absolutely. Karen's plan for neutralizing Clarke, O'neal
Edited on Sun Apr-18-04 08:37 PM by robbedvoter
AA few non-news and a lot of fodder for the left behind crew.
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #35
56. You are wrong. . .Woodward's interview was mindblowing
Here are some hi-lites:

Bush violated the constitution by funding his iraq war plan with money earmarked by Congress for Afghanistan.

Bush approved showing top secret docs marked "no foreigners" to Prince Bandar of Saudi Arabia.

Bush cut a deal with Saudi Arabia to manipulate gas prices in time for the 2004 election to make the economy appear strong.

Bush believes that God told him to liberate the people of Iraq, and he is on a mission from God to remake the world.

Just summarizing, and no, Bob Woodward does not think any of the things I listed here are 'good things'
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chookie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
36. Poppy tried to warn him
Poppy took a LOT of heat politically for not having taken out Saddam.

In hindsight, by golly, his decision not to occupy Iraq, which would have been necessary after ousting Saddam, was a wise move, although he did bungle stuff like the helicopters being allowed to carry artillery, and setting up the March Arabs and the Kurds for vengeful slaughter after the war had ended. Poppy in his memoirs published a detailed explanation about why he did not oust Saddam, and one can see the things we was trying to avoid unfold day by day since young George invaded

Poppy *tried* to warn George about this. Whether he did so personally, or only used surrogates, I don't know. But Brent Scowcroft wrote a very detailed warning in an open letter to George W published in the WP -- which was one of the many wise and experienced voices that George ignored.

George W seems to have bought 100% into the religious and militant insanity of the NeoCons.

His father was far more insightful and cautious a man.

But what I do not understand, yet, is WHY, when it was coming time for George W to get ready for his destiny as President of the US, back in 1998, did George HW introduce him to Condi Rice, Wolfowitz, and Perle to tutor the blank-slate mind of George W? These folk are famous for their extremist NeoCon positions. If George HW really wanted George W to govern as a moderate, or even just slightly crazy radical conservative, why oh why would he introduce his son to wackos like Wolfowitz and Perle, who apparently were George W's only window on the world of foreign policy?

Boy -- what a kick in the teeth to Poppy.

Gee -- Woody Allen may have been joking when he said the US might some day go to war because of George W's Oedipal Complex by trying to "outmacho" his Daddy" -- but I think he was quite prescient.
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fairfaxvadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
40. I don't think that Woodward has to say that...
"Bush, Inc waged an assault on a nation that did nothing to us, posed no threat ... WHY DOESN'T HE SAY THAT?"

I also don't think that was his motive for this book.

As for why these Admin folks would give Woodward, "Mr. Watergate", the time of day and why wouldn't they just flat out lie to him about all this, you needed to have heard Kerry today on MTP.

Basically, this WH is at war with itself. There is a lot of crap going on and people on the inside don't want to take the fall for this.

I think it's even worse the Woodward portrayed, but at a minimum, I think it is generally as he describes.

As for this being a Karen Hughes set up, let's not give her and Rove so much credit.

They ain't that smart.
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Carolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #40
53. I hope you're right
I hope the infighting will explode and reveal the depravity of this WH.

I'm not the one who said this was a Hughes set up because I don't give HER that much credit but I wouldn't put anything past Rove.
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
43. Am I the only one with this image of Bush at prayer?
Bush doesn't ask God for anything. He tells Him what to do.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. God who? Of the Kennebunkport Gods or one of the minor ones?
Edited on Sun Apr-18-04 08:56 PM by robbedvoter
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