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Look folks, this ain't beanbag we're playing.

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trof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 07:34 PM
Original message
Look folks, this ain't beanbag we're playing.
I've posted this story before, but it's something we need to keep in mind.

During Carter's first campaign we had a conversation. I had taken issue with him on something he had said that I didn't go along with. I felt he was pandering and I was incensed. Obviously I was a lot younger and more naive about the workings of politics then.

He told me "The first thing I have to do is get elected. Unless I can do that, everything else is moot. I may say and do some things you don't like in order to do that. You don't like it. I don't like it. But that's what you have to do."

I've seen people take issue with some of Kerry's pronouncements. This ain't beanbag. It's hardball, sharpened spikes, slide in with your foot high politics. Don't give me principles. Screw principles. Go vote for Nader and resign yourself to four more years worse than the last four.

You either want Bush* out, no matter what, or you don't care.

Chill out, and work like hell to get Democrats elected.

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BOSSHOG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. Allow me to second that emotion
Anyone who says they don't want bush as president can only do ONE thing. Register to vote and vote for Kerry in November. There is nothing else; there is no alternative action. Give Senator Kerry a few bucks if you can.
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trof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Thank you.
I got my Nomex pants on anyway.
;-)
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freetobegay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
2. Very well put
I have issues with Kerry But I have been supportive of him & will give him the benefit of the doubt until he is elected Then If I don't like what he is doing I'll scream & bitch then!

Some people here I believe truly don't understand what what a Bush 2nd term means.
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dmkinsey Donating Member (789 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
4. Damn right
No matter how much you may dislike a particular Democrat, voting for Nader will not improve the state of our nation.
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lyrical di Donating Member (181 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
5. Amen!
As an Edwards supporter, I had Kerry doubts in the beginning. But I am a grownup and know that the Democratic party MEMBERS must pull together and get our candidate in the office. Get the treacherous B*** out of there and get in a real war hero and person of integrity. Go Kerry.
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
6. Agreed
Good post. Fact is Kerry is going to have to say certain things we may not like to get the wishy, washy "we don't stand for anything/hold our finger to the wind" types of voters who live in places like Macomb, County Michigan and Montgomery County, Pennsylvania. Baby Bush will have to do so as well. People who vote Green or for Nader are not really serious about evicting Bush from the White House.
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John_H Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
7. Let's face the facts
We have three choices.

Vote for the guy who can beat bush and AT THE VERY LEAST improve America.

Vote for Chimp.


Enable Chimp by withholding a vote from the guy who can beat him.


In my view anyone who does either number two and three is either a Republican, and idiot, or both.
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rock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 07:45 PM
Response to Original message
8. Please clarify for me
You're not saying Kerry is unprincipled, are you?
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trof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #8
17. No, not at all.
I'm saying that he may have to park SOME of his principles until he gets in office.
We aren't playing by Marquis of Queensbury rules.
Witness the 2000 selection.
I don't like it, but I have to be realistic.
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rfkrocks Donating Member (846 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
9. Right On friend!!!!!
I cannot imagine throwing a vote away and allowing Bush to get in again-My God, what will happen with 4 more years of Shrub-our country and planet will be a burned out cinder-this is a time to call to action to save the country-this is the battle for the heart of the republic-All FDR did will be gone if Shrub wins-our alliances in tatters our economy almost ruined by debt- to paraphrase Gandalf "the battle for America is upon us" Kerry in 04
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 08:13 PM
Response to Original message
10. The stakes are higher than I can remember
And I remember the Truman administration.

Imagine - if Bush is reelected, he will probably get to appoint a new CIA director (it looks like Tenet is on his way out). He will also probably get to appoint a couple of new members to the Supreme Court - maybe three. Bush will ask for and get an even more oppressive version of the Patriot Act and, with the Supreme Court in his pocket, he will be able to define the word "terrorist" as he wishes. After the ripping the FBI got from Bush's 9/11 Commission, Bush will also have a totally subservient FBI willing to perform all the domestic surveillance Bush wants. Add to that the unrest that is likely to result when Americans start to feel the effects of twenty years of job outsourcing and the resulting low wages and hopelessness. You don't need to be a conspiracy junkie to put these pieces together. Remember the Los Angeles riots at the close of the GHW Bush administration. This could be a lot worse.

If you cherish human rights, your only choice is to vote for Kerry.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Let me go one step further here
If you cherish life, your only choice is to vote for Kerry.

Don

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trof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #10
18. Welcome JD.
Truman, hunh?
You must be as old as I am.
;-)
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indie_voter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 08:16 PM
Response to Original message
11. YES! n/t
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i_c_a_White_Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
13. Your right
A bush second term would be too horrifying to contemplate. Democracy as we know it will all but be gone.

Forget what kerry has to say just give him the benefit of the doubt. We all know what bushco will do.
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guitar man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
14. Right on

I supported Wes Clark in the primaries and still love him to pieces. JK might not be exactly all I wanted for a candidate,but "the tribe has spoken" and JK is who we got.

I want the BFEE OUT OF OUR HOUSE AND OUT OF OUR LIVES!!!!The only way I can see that happening is for us to vote for JK. We can sort out the pieces later.
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BrotherBuzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
15. So let me get this straight
Are you saying that Kerry, with the primaries passing, is moving into the general election phase, and from now until November we will be hearing a lot of rhetoric from Kerry that is targeted to placate the fence sitting republicans in an attempt sway them into our court? I can live with that.
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trof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. Loud and clear, BrotherBuzz eom
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
16. I don't buy your argument on my #1 issue, the war
Kerry and bush are indistingusihable where the war is concerned.

I am at a point where I cannot honestly say what I will do in the voting booth come November 2nd.
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trof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #16
22. I understand how you feel.
But for me it's a no-brainer.
ABB
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NoPasaran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #16
24. Walt, I share your feelings on the war
But the fact is there is no viable candidate we can vote for on that issue. I think of Bush appointed two or three religious zealots to the Supreme Court, I bite my lip and stay reluctlantly in Kerry's corner.
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molly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
20. I agree completely
it's amazing to see people that are self-defeating.
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
21. Well said
Exactly right. How easy it is to espouse "plans" that could never get close to passing in Congress, and are never going to get close to getting INto Congress! How easy it is to sit above and talk about ideals rather than getting down to earth and getting something done.

"The first thing you have to do is get elected. Unless I can do that, everything else is moot."
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
23. So...neither Kerry OR Bush*...
Edited on Mon Apr-19-04 09:38 AM by Q
...are required to take principled positions as long as they 'win'?

- What you're really saying is that candidates for president should be able to say and do anything they want if it helps them get into office. But isn't this exactly what Bush* did when he played to the center and then governed to the far right? Where does it end? How can we complain about the Right's hypocrisy and ignore our own?

- Your ABB theory fails to recognize one important factor: Kerry will be as crippled as Clinton if the Right keeps their majority in both houses and uses their stacked courts to influence laws and elections.

- I fear for this country when BOTH parties are willing to sacrifice principles and ethics in order to 'win'. And your 'with us or against' us' attitude doesn't sound much different than Bush's*.
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trof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. I would rather have a crippled Kerry
than an empowered bush*.

Politics is a now a game with frightening penalties for the losers.
Yes, I would much rather see a contest based on ethics and principles and an honest concern for what is best for the citizens (as opposed to the corporations and politicians) of this country.
But that game no longer exists. Maybe it can be revived some day, but, for now, it's gone.

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sangh0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. You also have a "you're either with us or against us" attitude
but instead of centering it on defeating Bush*, you center it on keeping your priciples.
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Lindacooks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
27. You're exactly right - THANK YOU!!
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Killarney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
28. 100% correct
Get Kerry in office FIRST.

Get Democrats in control of the Senate FIRST.

THEN, we can get something done!
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