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Its the fear of a draft that is scaring people away from Bush

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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 11:14 AM
Original message
Its the fear of a draft that is scaring people away from Bush
Was out again today putting weed and feed on the lawn (missed Kerry on MTP...shit) and talked to the same neighbor as yesterday and a couple more neighbors joined us. I had not realized that the first neighbor was worried about the draft yesterday when we spoke because he only has a daughter...but she has a fiance who this guy really likes a lot. He is worried for him. My 2 other neighbors who joined us today in my front yard both have draft age kids. And that was what the discussion was about today. I did not bring the draft up either. They did. I know fear when I see it, and all 3 of these guys are scared shitless that their loved ones are going to be drafted and sent off to die. Pissed off too. These guys are all Republicans but they will not be voting for Bush in November. They have had their fill of Bush's style of compassionate conservatism. I think I am going to need a stack of "Elect John Kerry" signs to pass out in the hood as soon as they become available?

Don

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Jazzgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
1. I'm hearing the same thing too.
Edited on Sun Apr-18-04 11:20 AM by Jazzgirl
People are afraid the draft is coming back and don't want it. What pisses them off is because they are realizing this war was so unnecessary. Co-worker yesterday said he is deathly afraid of this misadministration and that we have to get rid of them. I'm not bringing any of this up. Co-worker did notice I was reading Clarke's book and wants to read it too!

Jazzgirl
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
2. It's The Chatter In On Our Cul-De-Sac
Don,

I've noticed a steady uptick in draft talk in Pleasant Valley Sunday. It started last holiday season among many of the young 18-21 year olds who happened to follow my daughter (AND her boyfriend) home and we'd talk about things. Many of these kids I have known since grade school and came from very Conservative homes. The draft or then the concept of one scares the crap out of them, but they don't really know what it means. Until they know someone whose been swept up they won't feel it.

My daughter complains that her college campus is too sedate...while Kerry is very popular and the draft is a big topic, other than talk there isn't much else...and it's still in hushed tones.

My son, whose in high school, is another story. There, the dads are starting to take notice. These are the 60's partiers who turned yuppie and Repugnican in the 80's...socially moderate, fiscally and militarily conservative. This is "rock-rib" Republicana...or it was. Now many aren't so sure this regime is really on the up and up. I still think it's too soon to say we're seeing more than eyes being raised. It'll take a lot to get these lifelong GOOPers to stay home and an even bigger trick for them to pull a lever for Kerry. Sadly it may take 1,000 American dead or more.
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skooooo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
3. Never thought of this, but would Bush draft women???


Now that they're allowed in the military in combat situations, who's to say that even America's daughters would be exempt?
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #3
14. bushdraft.com
www.bushdraft.com
yes, women go too.
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twilight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
4. because he only has a daughter ...
Your neighbor should be more worried about his own daughter rather than her boyfriend as she too can now be drafted.

No one is exempt from this chaos! No one, including women!!!

:dem: :kick:
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DaveSZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Where do you guys live?
Also let them know that Cheney has plans to invade North Korea and Iran if reelected.

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bahrbearian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
6. Two of my the young male co-workers, who thought that attacking
Iraq was great. now think that Bush is Bad and are very scared of the draft. I think it was the draft that got em'.
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Kanary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #6
13. Exactly, it was the DRAFT, not the death-at-a-distance
That's why I think abolishing the draft was the big mistake of my generation. I now understand why older people said our protest was "selfish".

I Do believe that the draft needs to be reinstated, partly for this reason, and partly for other reasons, but this ISN'T the time. It *should* have been done before Bush took office.... then this ugly fiasco may not have happened.

Kanary
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bahrbearian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. In 1971 my number 11 was called and I was Drafted 1-A
but did not serve , I did not report.
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Kanary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. I'm glad you didn't go.... but...
I'm not sure how that relates to what I'm saying...?

Kanary
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bahrbearian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Exactly, it was the DRAFT, not the death-at-a-distance
Edited on Sun Apr-18-04 02:10 PM by bahrbearian
I was ready to enlist in the Navy (Marines) or Army (Special Forces),being an Athlete, but after seeing the T.V. depiction of carnage I had second thoughts, the civilian causalites...Upon Edit yes I feel the draft is more fair as long as ther are no deferments
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Kanary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. At the risk of stirring up yet one more hornet's nest
I agree with you about a draft being more fair. There are some very reasonable things to recommend it. AS LONG AS THERE ARE NO DEFERMENTS.

However, given all that is happening, now is NOT the right time.

It's such a hot-button issue, that I hesitate to even mention it.

Glad you were schmard enough to have those second thoughts!

Kanary

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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
7. so its hitting home. In the meantime, they all didnt mind
sending other people's kids into this.
sorry, I have not a whit of pity for them freaking out right now.
http://www.bringthemhomenow.com
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Tippy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. I agree Mari
I have two draft age...And one really worries me as he is thinking enlisting in the Marines....I have talked and talked but he is buying what they are selling hook line and sinker...
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. Tell him to come on here and tell him to check this site
www.calltoconscience.net
seriously..tell him the stepmother of a soldier told you about it and that its a vets site.
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twilight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. Mari333
Unfortunately I well remember Vietnam. It wasn't until those coffins started appearing on the new every night and the draft via lottery was enacted that the people began to really get pissed.

Too bad these young people didn't wake up and smell the coffee on this a long time ago - like before the "war" started.

The whole thing is sick. What is almost sicker is the fact that it seems that many young people have sat back apathetic and not the least bit worried about being drafted.

When reality hits, wow, they mentality changes quickly. In this unfortunate case, this may be too late.

I too fear for a draft as I have a niece that will be 19 years old in December. I guess she green pickings now too. At least during the Vietnam years, women could not be drafted.

:dem: :kick:

P.S. I pray your son is safe and returns home soon! This also goes for the rest of our troops. Maybe now people might understand why I hate war so damn much! :grr:

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Virginian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
8. I mentioned it to my cousin whose son hasn't applied to colleges.
He isn't sure he wants to go because he has a girlfriend at home.
I told her to let him know that he won't be able to come home and visit her on weekends or holidays if he gets drafted.

He is just one of the the eleven boys and one girl my five cousins have who range from 19 months to 19 years.

When it became clear (in the late 1980s) that gender balance was so skewed, I started worrying about war. It seemed so remote. Desert Storm seemed to take care of things, Clinton was on top of the Mid- East conflict. I felt silly to be concerned that all these precious little boys would grow up to be cannon fodder. Then there was suddenly George Dubya Bush.
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Kanary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. College won't be a deferment in the "new" draft n/t
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Virginian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. If he thinks College would keep him away...
It wasn't a go to college to keep from getting drafted, it was if he thinks college will keep him away from the girl, imagine what the draft will do. Vote against Bush and maybe the number of draftees won't have to be as high and he might not get the draft notice.

How will the chicken hawks keep their kids from getting drafted?
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Virginian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. Unfortunately,
In order to clean up the mess Bush started, Kerry may have to have a draft. It may be difficult initially for Kerry to get the multilateral support Iraq needs because Bush alienated many countries. Bush has created quite a mess to be cleaned up with the war, our relationships with other countries, the economy, you name it, it's a mess.

The draft would have been because of Bush but attributed to Kerry.

(I will always have questions about this war. I just couldn't understand why Saddam's neighbors were not as afraid of him as Bush was. If he was such a threat, why weren't they a part of the alliance fighting beside us? How many of the insurgents we are fighting today are from countries that are supposed to be our friends, like Saudi Arabia? Saddam gassed his own people; why didn't we do something then? Why were US companies still allowed to sell him more technology to do it again prior to Gulf I? This evil man was our "friend" in the 1980s, why did we turn on him?)
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oldlady Donating Member (513 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
15. we've got to stop thinking draft as in Viet Nam
the Selective Service draft is a flexible thing--- this one will not follow the rules of Viet Nam--

for instance, in Nam there was an "out" for college enrollment-- but right now the Selective Service is gearing up to draft according to specific skills -- health care and computer technology-- and up to age 45. That means the educated, not the grunts. That is who they will cast the nets for first.

yes, women will be eligible for the draft. Step one will be to require all girls to register for the selective service, as males do-- that hasn't happened yet-- though the recruiters are out in force in the public schools.

Also, there is never a guarantee that moving to Canada is a safe alternative-- last time they agreed not to enforce the return of young men escaping the draft-- but, they could this time.

I have a son about to turn 17 and I freaked out way back in November when a commander from a near-by base had a letter published in our local paper calling for a draft. I immediately went online & saw the posting on the Selective Service website calling for volunteers to staff local draft boards. A few days later, it was gone. I had printed it & photocopied it and took it door to door in my neighborhood. We are a low-income, mostly minority, area & historically the first to go-- however, as we have followed along, I'm not sure we are the first to be worried THIS time.

Have your neighbors hide the kids' ACT/SAT scores-- this is not Viet Nam.

peace.
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Kanary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Hi, oldlady! ^_^
Welcome to DU!

:hi: :hi: :hi:

:toast:

You bring up some good points. I hope your neighbors are listening!

I wonder of drs and nurses are thinking in these terms........?

Time for more whispering campaign....

Kanary
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #15
24. Hi oldlady!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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cliss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
17. Thanks for bringing this up, Don.
It's very important to be aware of this administration's plans. We currently have 135,000 troops in Iraq. I believe we have 1.2 million total troops.

As we know, Iraq is currently burning. Our soldiers are at risk because we're simply undermanned. Rumsfeld keeps repeating, "we'll send more if they need it". The fact is, we really don't have any people to spare. He doesn't want this fact known for 2 reasons: 1) we're in an election year. He doesn't want Americans putting 2 + 2 together to realize = draft.

Also, it's not good to let the enemy know you don't have enough people. There are people stationed in key areas around the world. If they were to leave and join the inferno in Iraq, they will increase volatility worldwide.

I've read that we will probably have a draft, even if we have a Democratic president.

And trust me, the old excuses of getting out of the draft simply will not work any longer. I've smiled at the cute posts where they trade ideas on how to get out of it. "Well, I'm going to college so I'm safe." Or, "I'll pretend I'm gay, or insane, or I'll pretend I've got bad knees and they'll leave me alone".

I've warned these charming but foolish youngsters: Do Not Think that they will let you off so easily. These men are ruthless killers, and they will draft women. So what if they're weak and can't aim? They'll be used as cooks or maintenance personnel.

Fact #1: the US population is declining, per capita. There are fewer young people than ever. These precious young people who should be around to pay taxes for the baby boomers, will be needed to fight the wars of the neoconservatives' making.

Fact #2: the world is becoming more dangerous each day that we get out of bed. The US represents only 4% of the world's population. Through our own actions, the world is turning against us (see Zapatero and Spanish troops, on LBN). At some point, we will be alone, fighting all our enemies like Don Quijote on his old nag.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. You are more than welcome. I think it may be time for more of us to...
...to get to know our neighbors a little better and to find out what they are thinking about Bush at the same time. It can't hurt.

Don

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Bluzmann57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
25. Wonder how many enlistments this has cost?
There are probably a lot of young people out there who maybe wanted to enlist, but are now scared to. A guy who lives down the street from me was encouraging his youngest son to enlist, because the kid is getting into trouble, but now they have decided against it. The military does offer a chance for education and travel and a strong defense is vital for a nation's security, but there are probably more than the neighbor who are reconsidering the military now that the Iraq invasion has gone so wrong.
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