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freetobegay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 06:25 AM
Original message
Funeral For A Civil War Sub Crew
AP) Rifles crackled and cannons rumbled across the marsh as the crew of the Confederate submarine H.L. Hunley was laid to rest, 140 years after the vessel became the first sub in history to sink an enemy warship.

Thousands of re-enactors in Confederate gray and Union blue marched in a funeral cortege a mile-and-a-half long as the crewmen, in coffins draped with Confederate flags and pulled on horse-drawn caissons, were taken to their resting place.

"These men taught us and they will teach future generations the meaning of words like honor," said state Sen. Glenn McConnell, the chairman of the South Carolina Hunley Commission. "Their spirit will live beyond the horizon of time."

The coffins were laid in a common grave - placed in the order which the crew sat on the hand-cranked submarine - in a breezy, oak-shrouded plot along the Cooper River.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/17/national/main...

SNIP

May they rot in Hell! oops did I just say that?
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 06:36 AM
Response to Original message
1. *snore*
What a bunch of tools.
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clonebot Donating Member (268 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 06:49 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. what are you talking about?
its an important snippet of history that deserves recognition. it only got media attention because its not p.c. to talk about the confederacy in a positive light.
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 06:56 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. I'm talking about this
Thousands of re-enactors in Confederate gray and Union blue marched in a funeral cortege a mile-and-a-half long

Why Southerners are so quick to play dress-up-soldier is beyond me :shrug:
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clonebot Donating Member (268 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 07:00 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. probaly
because most of the historical sites and battlefields of the civil war are in the south. it could be different if it was fought mostly in new england for all we know. they still do boston tea party re-enactments and dress up in jamestown and other colonial sites in the north and what not...
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 07:09 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. funny, I just about live in Boston and have never heard of
tea party reenactments outside of political protests.
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clonebot Donating Member (268 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 07:16 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. well
i've seen it so let's just leave it at that okay? dressing up is dumb - we both agree.
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DoNotRefill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #5
49. they have re-enactments at Gettysburg all the time....
Not a whole lot of civil war battles took place in Boston.
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Muddleoftheroad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. You left out the UNION reenactors
But hey, why be accurate.
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. No I didn't, go back and read it again and keep reading it
until you see the word Union clearly.
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Carolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #13
28. self deleted
Edited on Sun Apr-18-04 11:06 AM by Carolina
because I READ wrong :dunce:
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DoNotRefill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #13
50. Oh yeah.....those guys wearing blue....
are Confederate sympathizers, sure enough.
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kayell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #3
10. From what I have heard, many of the reenactors wearing Union blue
came down from the NORTH for the ceremonies and reenactment. When I lived in N. VA, reenactments were very common that included both southern and northern reenactors. The northern ones often came down from Gettysburg and that area, which wasn't too terribly far.

I went to see a reenactment once. The people I talked to were not necessarily of any political persuasion. The thing they did seem obsessed with was historical accuracy, down to the tiniest details of what people ate and wore. The camp areas are fascinating. They reminded me a lot of the Society for Creative Anachronism.

Why always assume the worst about southerners? A lot of people (liberal and conservative) here were touched by the Hunley crews fate when they were found. There have been many details found in the excavation of the sub that has made those people very real. Added to that is that unlike most archaelogical excavations, we actually know the names of these people. Most of the sympathy for the Hunley crew is not about politics, but about a very sad ending for those individuals.

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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #3
24. FYI...here is a listing of Union and Confederate Civil War reenactors...
<http://sunsite.utk.edu/civil-war/warweb.html#reenactors >

There appears to be pretty equal representation by units in both northern and southern states.

Maybe it has something to do with a love of history and an attempt to understand how their ancestors lived during that time period...you think?
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. Many reenactment groups split blue and gray about 50/50
If they didn't have approximately equal representation of each side, what fun would a mock battle be? You've got to have someone to shoot at, and a battle where one side greatly outnumbers the other generally doesn't last very long.
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freetobegay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #2
30. There is no positive light to the confederacy!
They tried to divide this Country & they got what they deserved!
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fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 07:31 AM
Response to Original message
7. I can't say
I have a problem with the people, as long as they're paying tribute to their dead relatives.

Now on the other hand, if they are praising the cause for which those men did die for, then all of them can go to hell.

Either way, I agree that playing dress up is kinda dumb.
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Muddleoftheroad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. I think they are praising their heroism
And since reenactors from both sides were there, that seems likely.

The Civil War was a horribly divisive time in our history, but we can't just ignore it or push it aside. I have met reenactors before and not one of them seemed like any sort of bigot to me -- or at least any more than anybody else I ever meet.
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kayell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. So I guess you can't stand the reenactors at Sturbridge Village,
Colonial Williamsburg, Jamestown, Plimoth Plantation, Mystic Seaport or any number of living history farms either. Pretty stupid that people want to know and show how our ancestors lived, hmm? Those PBS programs on people living as people lived in Victorian times, or the iron age are just dumb too, right?
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #11
20. We've got a lively Civil War reenactment group in the San Diego, CA area
About as far from the Old South as you can get, culturally speaking.

Half of them wear blue, the other half gray.
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Wapsie B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. Same for Iowa.
There are groups here for the Confederacy and others for the Union which spend the whole summer going from town to town on the weekends, recreating different battles. It was at one of these that I heard someone exclaim that the state of Iowa had more soldiers per capita in the war than any other state in the Union.
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Streetdoc270 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #7
16. ????
Why are reenactors dumb? Do you realize that more historical fallacies have been disproved by people 'playing dress up'. Also those people do painstaking research into period life and living conditions to recreate those costumes. Have you ever heard the term "Living History"? These are the people who make it possible...
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fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #7
17. Upon realizing the editing time has expired
Edited on Sun Apr-18-04 10:33 AM by fujiyama
I would like to take back my comment about the reenactors. Being somewhat of a history buff myself, I do think that conservation of the sites is important, and it's important for people to remember what happened at those sites.

Upon looking at it again, I think reenacting it does bring it to life and in its own way, educate people of the events (that's if it's done accurately).

Sorry to offend anyone over that.
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Streetdoc270 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. Okee Dokie
:)
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DoNotRefill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #17
51. Historical encampments also serve a valuable educational tool.
Most of the re-enactment groups around here don't just fight battles and then skip off to their hotel, they actually set up historically accurate camps according to how it was done, and let non-reenactor people walk around the camp to get a feel for what it was actually like. If you spot a CD player at a re-enactor's camp, it'll be on the belt of a visitor.

Re-enactors already know what it was like. They serve a very valuable purpose by letting the rest of us know what it was like.
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knight_of_the_star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #7
21. If you want to say that, consider these words
That Grant said to his troops not to fire off their rifles in celebration at Lee's surrender at Appomatox:

"These rebels are our countrymen."
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9215 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 08:43 AM
Response to Original message
12. They found this Nazi German sub recently too and they want
too have US and German reenactors in uniform hold a funeral ceremony for them. Fortunately the American Nazi Party will supply the swastika's. :eyes:
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #12
22. There are still living people who remember Nazi Germany
The Civil War has been over long enough that nobody's going to get upset enough over a funeral with Confederate trappings to do much about it. Especially not in that part of the country. Protesting a funeral of long-dead people always looks tacky no matter what your point may be.
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MAlibdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
14. When I saw that on CNN
All I could do was laugh.

These men (traitors to the US, no less) have been dead for a hundred fifty years...

I guess I just don't have a thorough understanding of Southern culture...I thought it was kind of weird.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #14
25. Not just Southern culture
Edited on Sun Apr-18-04 11:01 AM by slackmaster
150 years ago people were much more in tune with being citizens of whatever state they lived in than with being citizens of the USA. The federal government was a tiny fraction of what it is now. There was no income tax. There were no federal social support programs, few federal regulations, and no federal police other than the Secret Service and a few US Marshalls.

Yuo may seem those men as traitors to the USA. In their minds they were loyal to their home states. It was the states that seceded from the Union, not individual citizens.
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Yupster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #14
44. I don't agree that those men were
traitors to the US.
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booksenkatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
15. Politics aside, North/South aside....
I have always been fascinated with the Hunley crew simply because it shows the level to which desperate people will be driven in order to defend what they believe to be a just cause. Crawling into two boilers that have been welded together, manually cranking that propeller shaft, virtually no oxygen/light, little room to move, death almost a certainty with every passing moment.... I can't imagine how desperate you'd have to be in order to crawl into that contraption.

We should keep that in mind as we continue our occupation of Iraq: desperation will drive people to do amazing things in order to defend themselves, their causes.

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fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. Plus
wasn't the Hunley one of the first submarines used in warfare?

That in itself is pretty historic.
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Yupster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #18
45. It was the very first submarine
to ever sink an enemy vessel.
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PAMod Donating Member (651 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #15
34. Excellent post.
Very important for people to understand that human nature is the same on both sides of a struggle, and that it changes little over time.

The Bushistas fail to understand this important concept with regard to their foreign policy.
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Corgigal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
26. I live 25 miles from Charleston SC
born here but raised in NY since I was three. Now, I won't even watch the local news this week without wanting to kill myself. Those heroes or traitors, were already buried. However they were buried in something that could make money. Trust me I know because my husband and the boys went to look at it. Come on down and give us your funds and you can look at it too. Historical maybe but this was about rich guys funding a project to make some money.
Also if my reading is correct the damn Hunley wasn't even make in the south but the north. I personally can't wait until this week is over when we just go back to normal things like Cops pulling guns on black kids in schools and possibly shooting black people who had cuffs on.

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DoNotRefill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #26
52. I think you're confusing ships.
the CSS Hunley was indeed made in the South. I think you're thinking of the CSS Virginia, which was made from a captured Union ship.

The Hunley is a PRICELESS historical artifact. I'm glad they raised it. It did nobody any good lying under the water buried in mud and rusting away. And the crew deserves to be treated with dignity and honor, the same as the crews of Nazi U-boats and any other war relic.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
29. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
freetobegay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. For starters I am not a junior
If you advocate the overthrow of the U,.S. Government thats you businees, I won't in no way shape or form condone it! & thats what the confederacy was.

P.S. I served in the Navy.
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Yupster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #31
46. The Confederacy did not advocate the overthorw
of the US government. It just wanted to leave it. The US government would have gotten along just fine without the seven, later eleven Confederate states. Perhaps the US would be better off today without them.
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. Thanks for your service!
:toast:
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
32. With all the SHIT going on in Iraq and pre-election...
Do we really need another south-bashing thread?

:puke:
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ShaneGR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
35. Why would they rot in hell? They died fighting for their country
To them, the confederacy was their nation. 99% of confederate soldiers were not slave owners. Groups like the KKK and the Arian nation are the ones who tarnished that army's meaning.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
freetobegay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. I am a Southerner & I am Gay
& I love it when southern bigots try to use the Gay thing & everthing they try to justify! It's sickining!
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ShaneGR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. No.
You just choose to take an extreme view of one group, but jump up and down when someone takes an extreme view of your group. No, I am not a bigot. I was using an example of why your take makes no sense, because you don't observe the mindset of the people your judging. You wish for peoples ancestors to rot in hell, but you can't take the least bit of ribbing back. Kind of pathetic really.
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. And isn't it amazing?
That submariner's post was deleted yet this guy can insult southerners up and down GD and never, ever get his posts deleted. Seems there's a little bias here huh?
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freetobegay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #43
47. Sorry self delete again
Edited on Sun Apr-18-04 09:50 PM by freetobegay
I refuse to be baited
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freetobegay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. No they died fighting against their Country
Edited on Sun Apr-18-04 02:33 PM by freetobegay
Fighting against the American Flag & the U.S. COnstitution is what tarnished that armys meaning.
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DoNotRefill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #37
53. They left their country....
and started a new one. The North decided to impose their rule on the South by force of arms. Hence the term "The War of Northern Aggression."

We still hold that legitimate government stems from the consent of the governed. They revoked their consent, formed a new country, and were put down with force.

"Three hundred thousand Yankees is stiff in Southern dust.
We got three hundred thousand before they conquered us.
They died of Southern fever, and Southern steel and shot,
I wish they was three million instead of what we got.

I can't take up my musket and fight'em now no more.
But I ain't gonna love'em, now that is certain sure.
and I don't want no pardon for what I was and am,
I won't be reconstructed, and I don't care a damn." --from "Reconstruction Blues"







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freetobegay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
39. self delete
Edited on Sun Apr-18-04 02:39 PM by freetobegay
eom
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
41. They can have a funeral for people dead 140 years.
But they can pay reparations because that was too long ago.

Fucking hypocrites.
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
42. Gift shop owner McConnell must have been giddy with excitement
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MissB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
48. I was fascinated by National Geographic's issue
on the Huntley crew. It was in the last year, if I recall correctly. Find it and read it, if you can. From a purely engineering standpoint, those people were amazingly brave. It doesn't matter to me what side of the war they were fighting on - the sub was an amazing piece of equipment.

I don't find it odd that they are burying them this year.
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