Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Color me slow on the uptake

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
Elidor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-04 12:23 PM
Original message
Color me slow on the uptake
Sometimes I'm afraid I'm becoming too cynical, but now I see that I'm not cynical enough. A half-formed thought that occured to me over a year ago has finally percolated through my gray matter to land with a thud at the front of my mind:

They attacked Saddam, not because he was a threat, but because he was weak.

It was obvious he was weak before the invasion, but I foolishly tried to wonder how the neocons could con themselves into seeing him as a threat. Any fool could see that a country we routinely bombed at will for 12 years was not a threat. If Saddam couldn't regain control of northern Iraq from the Kurds, what were the chances he could successfully attack the U.S. or Israel? The strange disconnect between Saddam the global menace and Saddam the local thug ultimately led me to conclude that blind ideology was the cause of their inability to see the truth, and lust for oil and power was the cause of their inability to speak the truth.

The truth, however, is that they saw a very different truth: Saddam was sitting on top of the neocons' geopolitical futures, and he was not strong enough to fend them off. Like any smart bunch of mafiosi, Bushco saw a weak rival ripe for takedown.

The contrast in administration attitude between Iraq and North Korea should have clued me in to all this, but there was too much to digest, and the demands of ordinary life distracted me from seeing the forest for the trees.

They made him out to be a threat, but their own rhetoric in the lead-up to invasion gives away the truth: they saw him as no threat. And the whore media rarely questioned how someone who was supposed to be so dangerous could be toppled so easily.

I'm going to go practice being more cynical now. I've got a lot of catching up to do.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Insider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-04 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
1. hello hardhead
:hi:

your post made me smile. that's all.

(ps - you don't seem slow at all)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BlueEyedSon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-04 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
2. Yes, Saddam was a good target because....
Edited on Fri Apr-16-04 12:36 PM by BlueEyedSon
1. he was a weak foe, whom we could defeat easily (and we did, it's the after-planning that is the difficult part).
2. he was secular, so we might be less likely to inflame Muslims (the Arab street).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-04 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
3. Remember what Lily Tomlin said.
No matter how cynical you are, it's hard to keep up.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BlueEyedSon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-04 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Did she say "hard" or "impossible"?
:)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
reprobate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-04 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. JR, a suggestion for your photo.

Photoshop the "burger king" to "Bungler King".

Far more appropriate.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-04 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. I love the idea
but rely on others to do the artwork.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LividLiberal Donating Member (181 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-04 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. Or Burgler King
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Madrone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-04 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. nahh... it's BOOGER KING, BABY!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LividLiberal Donating Member (181 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-04 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. YUK! LOL!
Perfect!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
K-W Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-04 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
5. The neocons wanted him out the minute he ceased to be useful.
He used the power that we helped give him to control Iraq and he wasnt under our control. We couldnt let a man acting for his own and his countries interests control that much oil or that much land in that region. We felt he was too powerful, we found our excuse in Kuwait and we decimated him. With sanctions and bombings we made sure Iraq could never become a local power or control its own economy. Since such an arrangement couldnt last indefinately, we had 2 choices, pull out of Iraq or take Iraq over.

We know what the neocons thought the right choice was.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-04 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
7. meanwhile ....
North Korea continues building nuclear warheads and long-range missiles.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BlueEyedSon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-04 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Well of course we won't touch them, they could fight back!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
central scrutinizer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-04 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. that is exactly the mesage we sent
get nuclear weapons as fast as possible or you are next.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Redleg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-04 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
10. The PNAC said just that. Take out Saddam to send a signal
to other leaders in the region. They knew we would win the conventional part of the war easily. They were just like the school bully- pick on the weakest kid in class to scare the other ones off.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-04 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Unfortunately the forces of evolution came into play
by taking out the weakest of the herd, Bush has just forced others, like North Korea, to become stronger. But you wouldn't expect a creationist to have thought that through, would you?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
library_max Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-04 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
11. Sure, it's an old strategy.
Bully on the beach wants to make an impression. So he picks on the weakest guy around, pounds the crap out of him, and then makes it clear that he'll do the same to anyone else who crosses him. That's exactly what Bush and the PNAC crowd were/are up to in Iraq.

Hell, we had Saddam completely contained militarily. He couldn't so much as put an airplane in the sky. That's how much of a threat he was. Among other advantages, we had tons and tons of intelligence on his military capabilities. We were practically occupying Iraq before the war.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LividLiberal Donating Member (181 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-04 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
15. Exactly. Saddam was a target because he was weak.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Elidor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-04 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Sad that it took me so long to see that.
But then, I've spent the last year in a new relationship, and haven't had as much time to keep up with the news. I'm lucky if I get 15 minutes a day to read the "papers."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LividLiberal Donating Member (181 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-04 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. This was pointed out in a couple books I read, that the target had
to be a weak one.

And I wish I were too busy in a romance to be aware of the last couple years. Ignorance is bliss......
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-04 10:09 PM
Response to Original message
18. Yup. Iraq was low-hanging fruit
As a demonstration of US might and resolve for the crimes of 911, it fooled no one. It was Moe slapping Larry because he's closer, when he's really mad at Curley. Now we look like blustering jackasses.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Elidor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-04 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. "Low-hanging fruit"
I like that analogy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Elidor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-04 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
22. Meanwhile, it's been about 950 days since Osama
Attacked us. Apparently, being the most wanted man on earth is not particularly demanding or dangerous. Not with Chicken George on the case. He'll stick to fights he can win. Osama is a free man as Bush sits trapped in a prison of his own devise, useless except for attacking pathetic has-been tyrants and other toothless tigers; in his spare time, he kidnaps heads of state at gunpoint and funds opposition to populist leaders the world over.

But he's scared of Osama, because he doesn't know how to fight him. All he can do is rage helplessly at easier targets. As Rumsfeld said, "There are no good targets in Afghanistan."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-04 11:11 PM
Response to Original message
23. Saddam was weak, and would have fallen without our help.
As we find out more about the latter days of Saddam's regime, it becomes clear that he was falling. He resembled Hitler during the last days of the 3rd Reich giving orders to imaginary armies, boasting of non existent weapons. None of his top military officers were following his orders. He was either delusional or on drugs, and was spending his time writing bad romance novels. We all saw the miserable wretch that was pulled out of the spider hole. This man was in command of nothing. He certainly wasn't organizing the resistance of the Saddam loyalists.

The only question that remains, who would have replaced Saddam after the inevitable coup? Perhaps the fact that Saddam was in free fall provided the urgency for the invasion....so that the USA could step in to the power vacuum?????
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Elidor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-04 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. You have summed up Saddam's menace perfectly:
He was writing "bad romance novels."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-04 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
24. Good assessment.
We would never go after anyone who could really fight back, no matter what axis of evil they belong to. This is what cold wars are for. So any ideas who may be the next terrorist nerd in the world we can bully?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue Apr 23rd 2024, 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC