I'm starting to think maybe U.S. should pull forces out

[quinnox]

of Iraq. This is looking like a tinderbox about to explode, and it might turn into a full scale revolution. I don't think the U.S. should be caught in the middle of this.

It can be done gradually, and done in a subtle way. Slowly withdraw the forces without making a lot of noise about it and then turn over the power in June.

[freetobegay]

1. starting to think ?

I've known all along they shouldn't have been there!

[aquart]

2. No, it can't be done quietly. The world is watching. Some laughing.

It would be very nice if we could be cats about this, brush ourselves off after a fall pretend it was what we meant to do all along and what's the big deal anyway, but we ain't cats.

We were a superpower who invaded a weak, non-belligerent nation. We abused our power. Consequently, we have lost our power. Any bully can kick sand in our face and will.

BUSH WILL NEVER WITHDRAW. Dead Americans are not a problem to him. Dead other nationals aren't even on his radar.

This is Kerry's problem. Which is why he's being sooooooo quiet about it. It isn't just American lives. It's America's future position in the world. We're a banana republic now. A financially-ruined third world country. That's what Kerry is being asked to govern.

Walk out and we maintain world condemnation and the Republicans, who ought to have the decency and shame to hang their head and keep their mouths shut, will have a campaign issue to hit him with endlessly. Bush depravity will be forgotten and it will all be the Democrats' fault.

Definition of a quagmire: you don't wanna be there and you can't get out.

Which is why we told George not to go there.

[NJCher]

4. absolutely on-the-money, hilarious first paragraph

You obviously have a cat.

Actually, getting out of there solves all the problems:

a) Americans stop dying
b) financial hemorraghing stops
c) Iraqis self-govern
d) War profiteers are thrown by the wayside

To assuage the critics, we will have to pump money in there after we leave.

As far as any contracts Bechtel and Halliburton et al have, settle on the cheating they're already under investigation for for any further claims.


Cher

[Tinoire]

10. Bingo!

We differ on Kerry but that's truly a minimal difference at this point. Very astute :thumbsup:

[Old and In the Way]

18. You are so correct aquart!

Thanks for posting this.

[meow mix]

28. continue the insanity to save face..

for how long?
we'll end up getting forced out regardless..
and the only difference will be more death and misery.

its a worse excuse to stay than "saving iraqis" -who are refusing our salvation.

[Fridays Child]

3. On a technical note...

I don't think you can be caught in the middle of something you started. It's the Iraqi people who are caught in the middle. That said, however, I agree with you one hundred percent. In fact, our service men and women didn't start this war, either. And they've been lied to about what it is they're risking and losing their lives for. So they, too, are unfairly caught in the middle.

Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Perle, Rice, and every member of every neocon foreign policy and defense think tank should be sent over to face the mess they've made. And every fr**per and fr**per type who thinks this is such a just war can join them.

[leftofthedial]

5. with all due respect

DUH!

[DietVanillaCoke]

6. Can't Be Done

There is no way that American forces can pull out now. It would be political suicide.

[immoderate]

7. We declare victory first!

--IMM

[salin]

9. Sort of created a double edged sword for ourselves with our policies

seems that political suicide awaits either direction (staying or leaving.)

[Tinoire]

11. Yeah.. Real smart! For neocon pride, let's get more people, US & Iraqi

slaughtered, so they can come home in what maybe 5-10 years with their tails between their legs.

God-damnit! We WILL WIN! Win what, DietVanillaCoke? Some facsimile of (you_insert_media-lie_here)?

Please read these threads quickly and learn something, anything, during your stay.

[DietVanillaCoke]

14. But...

The political shambles that Iraq would be left in were we to pull out so soon would no doubt result in America being in Iraq's shit list for years to come. We probably already will be, but we would permanently be on the rest of the world's shit list if we fucked off now.

[laura888]

17. Every day our marines are doing house to house searches and killing...

....ensures we stay on the world's shit list even longer than we already are.

let's get out now.

[Tinoire]

21. It's too late DietVanillaCoke

Too late DietVanillaCoke. The South shall not rise again. You are witnessing the death of an empire. I would rather see it gracefully die mustering whatever dignity it has left.

We are going to be on not only Iraq's shit list, but almost every other country in the world's shitlist for years to come. A cosmetic changing of the guard at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave isn't going to fool anyone except ourselves because during all the years we were asleep at the wheel, the rest of the world was watching. We are only fooling ourselves and contrary to what the corporate media would have us believe, there isn't enough Prozac or Paxil in this world to maintain our illusion.

Go to Europe right now. The average person in the streets HATES us. They HATE people who were so uniformed, had their heads so far down in the sand, that they enabled Bush. They HATE Kerry and our entire political charade. The worst is that they loathe us for not having the courage to get out in the streets and stop traffic, stop the planes, stop the trains, properly boycott, properly pelt and protest to put an end to the madness WE have enabled with our silent complicity and willingness to pay whatever taxes were asked of us without questioning how that money was used because we had subscribed to the idea of "Death on the Installment Plan".

We're fucked DietVanillaCoke and unfortunately, not enough of us have the courage to do what it will take to get "unfucked".

Just look in GD2004 and at FR. Nothing but apologetics for these most vile actions. Sadly only extreme Leftists and extreme Conservatives are bothering with details anymore and that- ignorance- shall be the death of us all.

The rampant apologetics most preferred will get us all killed.


DietVanillaCoke? That's awfully weak when compared to the real thing wouldn't you say? Why that moniker?

[Kanary]

29. Apologists, indeed, Tinoire

And it finally dawned on me that this is why this year's Peace March was so much smaller than last year's.

Since Kerry supports continuuing the war, and we "have to get behind our nominee", it's no longer so OK to be anti-war.

Chilling, eh?

Kanary

[sspiderjohn]

8. If we do, who rules Iraq? How do we get out quickly?

I'm all for a quick exit, just wondering how.

[quinnox]

12. Set up elections

would be my choice, but if that proves impossible then let the chips fall where they may. Iraq is their own country, and they have to determine who they want as their leaders.

[Jose Diablo]

31. There is a song from a ways back

I forget most of the lyrics, but some are:

"No need to be coy, Roy
Just get yourself free"

AS far as getting-out, its easy. Just pack-up and go home. Say, hasta la vista, we wish you well, let us know if you need something and go.

The Iraqi can sort it out themselves, supply them the resources they need to rebuild and leave.

Tell the world we F'ed up, move on. History is filled with screw-ups. Why should we be any different? It is a bigger mistake to continue when you know your wrong.

In the end, what we will do is exactly this; pack-up and go. Be better to do it earlier than later.

[Jacobin]

33. "Slip out the back, Jack, Make a new plan, Stan,

Just set yourself free."

P. Simon.

:-)

[worldgonekrazy]

13. Me too

I've been adamant since the start of the war that the United States MUST see this thing through because a) they have the responsibility to clean up the mess they created and b) the country will very likely descend into civil war, a very bad scenario for such a vital and unstable region.

But now that it seems obvious that the U.S. has completely lost control of the situation in Iraq, I just don't see any other alternative. We need to get out and get out NOW before ten years go by and 50,000 soldiers die (not to mention Iraqi civilians).

[Blue_Tires]

15. i just don't want to see another american die

for no wmd's

[Deja Q]

16. No. They must stay... There is only one way it can be done:

We have a responsibility here. We wilfully went in and destroyed their country. We need to stay, bring in the UN to let them take over and decide what to do, and then support the UN by letting them use our troops as they see fit.

Or let the UN take over and punish US, that's just as fair.

Look at Afghanistan's history. Iraq could easily follow the same pattern unless somebody has involvement.

It's got to be the UN, using our troops - especially as we caused the mayhem in the first place. Nobody else should have to die because of our errors and warmongering.

But we just can't leave them to rot.

[Old and In the Way]

19. That's how I see Kerry working to end our occupation.

Kerry can do it, because he is unencumbered with the Republican corporate oil and business interests in Iraq. He will bring the UN in to referee a political solution. But we are obligated to fix the infrastructure and underwrite the costs to put Iraqi society back together.

[NJCher]

30. you can give them money

and let them resolve their own issues. Why do you assume they need us to help them do that, hypnotoad? They don't need us. But we are, unfortunately, obligated to put together, to the best of what money can buy, their infrastructure, etc.


Cher

[demosincebirth]

20. There was "law and order"...

when Saddam was in charge, and you know we had to go in, and now look what we have.

[Tinoire]

22. Jeez! Alleluia!

More good news on a Saturday. Thank you Quinnox. Thanks for giving me hope that people are finally seeing what a CF this is.

[quinnox]

24. lol, it is a nice day

You are welcome.

[Van Helsing]

23. I've been thinking this since day one...

going into Iraq was one of the worst things this country has ever done. :grr:

[WinningDoubt]

25. Better ask our leader Kerry first

I think he has other plans and they don't include retreating.

[mainer]

26. No, 30,000 American soldiers have to die first

Only THEN we can pull out, leaving the country in chaos. You see, the chaos is only acceptable if we have massive casualties first.

[Jacobin]

34. ding ding ding

YOu win the prize.

Must have mounds of useless casualties before we can "declare victory" and have our asses run out of IraqNam.

It's jest the way we do things in this crazy country.

[porkrind]

27. Gee, Ya think?

*'s Vietnam.

[Mari333]

32. bring the troops home now

http://www.bringthemhomenow.com