Israeli History Buffs: Did Early Israel consider siding with Soviets?

[absyntheNsugar]

I'm trying to win an argument here - I'm arguing that they didn't or if they did it was a small faction that did.

My friend is arguing that if we didn't support Israel during the late 40's/early 50's they would have gone to the Soivets.

Both of us are too young to remember this happening BTW (both born in the 70's)

ON EDIT: one more thing, apologies if this should be in the Lounge

[Fenris]

1. That seems unlikely

Considering Russia's abysmal record on granting basic human rights to Jews.

[absyntheNsugar]

2. EXACTLY!

That was one of my points! Why would Ben Gurion ever consider siding with a country with a record similar to that of the Nazis in terms of mistreatment of the Jews.

[Fenris]

3. I think it would difficult

To ponder what would have happened to Israel without the support of the U.S. They would certainly have been limited in terms of potential allies. Even with the pressure of the Cold War, I seriously doubt Israel would have sided with the Soviets if the U.S. had decided not to support the Jewish state.

[The Magistrate]

4. That Is A Hard One To Answer, Ma'am

What is certainly true is the Soviets certainly habored hopes in the latter stages of the Mandate, and the early days of Israeli independence, of gaining the Jewish state as an ally. It was hoped it could be used as a tool against English colonialism, which was at the time still dominant in the Near East, with Egypt, Iraq, and Jordan being essentially English protectorates, and England exerting great influence in Iran and Saudi Arabia. Most of the heavy arms acquired by Israel in the early stages of the '48 war came from Soviet bloc sources.

There is also no doubt that the original Zionists were predominantly Socialists, and persons of the left by contemporaneous standards. Many did have some affection for the Soviet Union, and the infiltration and control of non-Communist left organizations was a well practiced technique of the old Comintern.

[keithyboy]

7. Not only were early Zionists socialists....what do you think Lenin was?

The Communist party and the Communist movement were largely started by Jews. Read your history. Or should we not believe history that was mostly written by the west?

[Toronto Ron]

8. Lenin was not Jewish

but he did have one Jewish grandparent.

[Taverner]

9. Trotsky was Jewish

And some feel that a lot of the anti semitism in Stalinist USSR resulted from the Stalin/Trotsky rift.

Of course I think anti-semitism goes back farther than communism in that part of the world.

[KharmaTrain]

5. Things To Ponder...

I don't have the exact facts at fingertips at midnight, but if I'm not mistaken, the Soviet Union strongly pushed for the creation of the Jewish state and recognized it within hours of the U.S....right at its inception. The USSR and Israel had diplomatic relations up until the 1967 war.

A lot of the early Jewish "pioneers" were also Soviets, Communists and Socialists. Would Israel have joined the Soviet orbit? I doubt it, since anti-semitism in the Soviet bloc still trumpted politics and the Soviets were already making serious inroads with Arab states. Many of the original Israeli settlers were socialists as opposed to Communists, thus not as regimented as the Soviets, too.

The USSR actually helped Israel in its early years with grants and equipment, but the rise of Nasser and Arab nationalism, that turned the Middle East into the NeoCon chess game it is today, changed that.

[happyslug]

6. Soviet was the First Country to give Israel "De Jure" recognition

"De Jure" i.e. LEGAL Recognition as opposed to "De Facto" i.e. a country in fact recognition.

The US was one of the first country to Recognize Israel "De Facto" AND one of the LAST countries to recognize Israel "De Jure".

Stalin was playing a game with the US, for at the same time he told the Communists in Bulgaria to STOP supporting the Communists in Greece, "For we have no Fleet" and without a Fleet you can NOT hold Greece. It is claimed Stalin did the De Jure Recognition to try to gain a Seaport In the Med, but without a real fleet that makes no sense (the Soviet Fleet was NOT built up till the late 1950s after Stalin Died and became a credible threat in the 1960s and 1970s. The Soviet Fleet of the late 1940s was NOT a threat to the US Navy).

Thus it looked like Stalin Playing some sort of Game, maybe to something he wanted to throw to the Jews in the Soviet Union (While Discriminating against the Jews in Russia). Take a better Soviet Scholar than I am to determine why.