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DarkPhenyx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 06:51 PM
Original message
"Saturation evangelism" (North Carolina News)
Edited on Thu Apr-08-04 07:03 PM by DarkPhenyx
Coming soon to a post box near you...JESUS! Is this what they meant by the second coming?

www.jesusvideoprojectnorthcarolina.org

http://indyweek.com/durham/current/porch.html

"The ultimate goal of this is to strengthen the faith of those who are Christians and to tell others how they can become Christian," Ashe County organizer David Blackburn told The Mountain Times in January. Distribution across 21 western North Carolina counties began last year, with 250,000 videos delivered in time to celebrate Christ's birth in December. In February, students at Appalachian State University in Boone became the first college students in the nation to be mass-mailed the new digitally remastered version of the film on DVD, with special behind-the-scenes footage and a children's version included.

"The meticulously accurate, non-confrontational motion picture--translated into more than 800 languages and viewed more than 5 billion times worldwide--is the most watched film in history," the Jesus Video Project group boasts.

With a projected budget of $10 million, the Jesus Video Project of North Carolina (www.jesusvideoprojectnorthcarolina.org ) plans to complete what organizers call "saturation evangelism" across one-third of the Tar Heel state by April 11, the day that Christian children everywhere will wake up to egg hunts and chocolate rabbits.


<on edit>

Fixed the first URL.
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democracyindanger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
1. Fundies
discover spam.
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bigbillhaywood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
2. Join the Atheist Resistance!
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DarkPhenyx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Except I'm not an athiest.
I'm a card carrying, tree hugging, Goddess recognizing witch.
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bigbillhaywood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Then you will go to the Re-education Camps
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DarkPhenyx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Not likely.
Really don't like prison, and I have guns. :evilgrin:
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bigbillhaywood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. It's not a prison, it's a re-education camp
We're there to help you, not punish you. Your guns will not help you against the onslaught of our Atheist Internal Security apparatus.
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Selwynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Wow - sounds a lot like fundamentalism to me.
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bigbillhaywood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Ha! Ha! I was wondering if I'd run into you here.
I'm kidding about the re-education camps of course. Although liquidating certain extremist institutions like the Southern Baptist convention wouldn't be such a bad idea.
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bigbillhaywood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. You know, Sel
I'm not much more of a critic of religion than your pal Bertrand.
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Selwynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. Actually, you are far less of a critic than Bertrand ~
Edited on Thu Apr-08-04 07:43 PM by Selwynn
You see, his argument was far more sophisticated, and - quote a source if I'm mistaken - usually stopped short of trying to tell everyone else they were wrong.

The book was called "Why I am not a Christian" not "Why you are wrong for Being a Christian."

That was a good book by the way. So was "The Case Against God" by George Smith. His analysis of religious moralism, was scathing and strongly argued. Personally, I agree with most of it.

That said, I don't assume that if people don't see it my way, it must be because they are stupid, misguided, naive or whatever else.

A lot of people have religious experiences - experiential, direct, and seemingly real. Whether or not we want to try to argue that they are not (which many have done) does not change the fact that we really have no idea how valid they are, all we know is that some people have these profound experiences. To try to demand that they completely deny or ignore the reality of their experience is nonsensical.

The debate about how actually manifested religious "experiences" should be understood is a different issue altogether. But coming off in your confrontational manner, acting like anyone who doesn't see it your way is obviously one of the choices I gave above is ridiculous and narrow minded in the extreme.

I don't have to have all the answers figured out - but since I know for sure that I don't, I like to give other people a lot of room to work out those answers, even if they choose different paths than me, without ridiculing what they value or mocking their choices.
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bigbillhaywood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. I'm not trying to mock anyone,
Although I may be unintentionally succeeding. Look, I think I've seen enough of the destructive consequences of religion to remain silent about the road this irrational belief system is leading us down. If a believer gets offended in the process, screw 'em. I don't buy that their beliefs are any more sacred than political, social or philosophical beliefs. If someone believes homosexuals are evil, I'm gonna say they're wrong. If someone says they believe in God, I'll tell em they're wrong there too. It's all up for debate or attack as far as I'm concerned.

To quote the Wizard in Taxi Driver: "Hey, I'm no Bertrand Russell-- I'm a cabbie, whaddya want?" So forgive me if my criticisms aren't as articulate as his.
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Selwynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #26
36. Ok, that quote was will timed and funny... :) However...
Edited on Thu Apr-08-04 08:55 PM by Selwynn
However, you may have seen <too much> of the destructive consequences of organized institutionalized religion to remain silent about... yadda yadda yadda. But, I have seen too many examples of extraordinary human beings who were extraordinary precisely because of their personal spiritual conviction.

That's the distinction I think you should be making. You might - maybe - be able to argue that all organized religion is inherently divisive and destructive, a kind of power and control mechanism, etc. Az said something along the lines of, when any group, religious or otherwise claims to have absolute truth, people will suffer. I agree with that statement with all my heart.

However to translate than into an attack on the value of personal piety or personal spiritual beliefs to an individual is an inappropriate leap.

I don't go to church, or belong to a religious "organization" of any kind. And I don't for the very reason that I actually share many of the secular, atheists, humanists criticisms of these institutions. And as I said I agree with Az 100%. However, if get up in the morning, walk out on to the beach and hear the morning ocean waves, the smell of the air and the wind and sun on my face, and if in this moment I feel connected to something beyond myself, and such beliefs motivate me to devote myself to trying to learn to love others more, be angry less, respect people more (sorry if I've been disrespectful at any point, I felt like my last email kind of was), and work for justice in this world - I challenge you to explain to me how that is bad - for me.

You mention Bertrand Russell, but choose not to mention my other quote from Dr. King. Dr. King was probably one of the most important men in the history of the United States, and his beauty of personhood and greatness of character was directly because of his passionate spiritual convictions. At some point I think a "rational" person has to accept that personal spiritual beliefs works very well for some people, and its probably very good that they've discovered that particular language through which to express reality. And it does not work as well for others, and they should not be coerced by any "institution" to use religious language against their will.

You have to make room in your world for people like me, who don't fit into your preconceived notions about religion. For example, before you read further, stop for a second and answer this question before reading: What is the definition of being "religious?" Have you answered? Great. Now here is my answer:

Being religious means asking passionately the questions of the meaning of existence, and being willing to receive true answers, even when those answers hurt.

That is a quote from a "mentor" of mine, Paul Tillich. Your reaction might be, "that's not religion at all!" but I believe it is, it is for me, and if you hadn't realized some people defined religion in this way, you should think about that.

Let's try it again - you first, tell me what is your definition of "God?" Finished? Great. Here is my answer - my answer is a quoted passion from the much beloved (by me) Paul Tillich from a meditation entitled "The Depth of Existence" -

What gives the great classics of philosophy, literature, and religion their authority generation after generation is that they are the expression of a journey toward depth undertaken by sincere and concerned individuals or peoples throughout history. They hold out the possibility that an unexpected contentment with life can be ours if we follow them through the difficult but rewarding way to depth.

Those whose lives and experience have been imprinted in the great classics have all witnessed the same experience: they have found that they were not what they believed themselves to be, even after a deeper level had appeared to them below the vanishing surface. That deeper level itself became surface, when a still deeper level was discovered, this happening again and again as long as their very lives, as long as they kept on the road to depth.

What name then, can we give to this dimension of depth to being? The name of this infinite and inexhaustible depth, is God. That depth is what the word God means. And if that word has not much meaning for you, translate it, and speak of the depths of your life. Perhaps, in order to do so, you must forget everything traditional that you have learned about God, perhaps even the word itself. For if you know that God means depth you know much about him.

You cannot then call yourself and atheist or unbeliever. For you cannot think or say: Life has not depth! Life itself is shallow. Being itself is surface only. If you could say this in complete seriousness, you would be an atheist; but otherwise you are not. He who knows about depth, knows about God.


Your reaction might be "that's not a real definition of God!" But the truth is that you have so narrowing defined spiritual belief to mean believing in x way, about x things by x definition - and then you can criticize those things. Unfortunately, lots and lots of people don't fit into that neat little box.

And again, in closing, I say again that there should be a distinction made between the evils and corruptibility of institutional religious structures and the personal, private decisions for piety made privately in some individuals lives.

Cheers!
Sel




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bigbillhaywood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #36
41. You anticipated my responses correctly
I do not consider your definitions of religion or God valid. I am a traditionalist when it comes to defitinions of terms. If it's not in the dictionary or in common usage, a personal definition of a word, term or concept is meaningless to me. I'm not trying to insult your definitions, so I'm sorry if it's coming off that way (you might have noticed I'm a bit abrasive-- lost many girlfriends and made many enemies that way). What I am saying is I don't believe I can have a productive discussion or debate without clearly understanding the terms of discussion, so I require those terms be defined by common and objective understanding, not personal understanding. Notice a pattern in my thought, here? I go for the objective, not the personal.

As far as King is concerned, I'm sure he would have held the same principles had he not been religious. Although I concede he would not have had the power to implement those principles without the organizational base that the church provided. The Civil Rights struggle was one of the few times organized religion functioned progressively rather than reactionaryily (is that a word). But that's also why the movement petered out at the end of Jim Crow. The organizational base of the church did not have the rational basis to move beyond Jim Crow and challenge the capitalist edifice responsible for economic discrimination. Moreover, such a challenge would also challenge the class status of the preachers leading the movement. Enter the radicalization of SNCC, the Black Panthers and endless splintering that was unable to survive capitalism's onslaught without the organization base of the church.

I know, I know. Liberation Theology and the Jesuits. Well, they're cool and if all religions were like them (instead of 1%) I guess I'd think religion is pretty cool. But then again, I think these people would have achieved the same results w/o religion-- the religious institutions just provide an organizational base.

But the fact remain that most religious institutions are reactonary, and belief in God (as God is commonly defined) is irrational.
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DarkPhenyx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. It's a prison.
If the guns force you to shoot me while I take a few of you with me then they did their job. I guarentee in a count of numbers I'm gonna win.
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bigbillhaywood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Our "Black Angel" squads will scoop you up with no resistance
We will recruit one of your friends as an informant, then take you into custody when you least expect it. Why do you resist? Repeat after me-- I do not believe in God. I will surrender all personal property to BigBillHaywood, so his security forces will not have to forcibly expropriate it.
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DarkPhenyx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, yeah sure. OK.
Mmmmmmmm, no still don't see it happening.
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bigbillhaywood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Really? Damn. Back to my idea for a global Eskimo conspiracy, then
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DarkPhenyx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Now that isn't a Conspiracy!
They are a serious threat to...um...someone I'm sure. :)
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bigbillhaywood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Oh if only you knew...
Who do you think came up with the Jewish Conspiracy idea? The Eskimos did! To throw the rest of the world off their tracks. Sure, they seem nice with their Igloos and 50 words for snow, and nose-kissing, but they have a dark secret agenda. I read it on the internet-- so there!
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DarkPhenyx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #22
28. And you have to believe the internet. You can trust the internet.
The internet is your friend. Remember, it told you so.
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bigbillhaywood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. You're pretty smart for one of those Wiccan-types.
How do I join your cult? We can prepare for "The Night of the Igloo" and fight the Eskimo Conspiracy. Your guns will come in handy.
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DarkPhenyx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. I'm more concerned with the...
..."Coming of the Great White Handkerchief". They day of apocalypse when the Great Green Arkelsiezure finally wipes his nose and kills us all.
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bigbillhaywood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. You really do know a lot
Will you be my Great Leader?
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DarkPhenyx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. Not a good idea.
See, in preperation for my ascent to Valhalla, I have to kill all my followers so they make ready the preperations. Gathering the concubines, that sort of thing. You know how it is.
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #5
21. Blessed be!
We all come from the Goddess
And to Her we shall return
Like a drop of water
Flowing to the ocean.....
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DarkPhenyx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. I will live and harm none.
I will live, love, die, and live again
I will mee,t remember, know,
and embrace once more.
For the free will of all, and with harm to none
As I will
It now is done
So mote it be.

:)
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Selwynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #5
23. You get cards?
:D
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DarkPhenyx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. We took a vote.
It was either cards or a tattoo on our ass. Since most of us already had the tattoo on the ass thing covered.....
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VelmaD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. My tattoo on the ass isn't covered...
I show it off all the time. ;)

Bright blessings. *smooch*
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Selwynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #25
37. Damn! You guys get all the fun stuff!
:)

Blessings to you and all your house.
Sel
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DarkPhenyx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. And unto yours
Blessed be.
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historian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
3. fundie no longer come to my house
I open the door with a large bloody knife (ketchup or something) and tell them they can come in and id be happy to talk to them about my beliefs but i was in the middle of a sacrifice to the devil. If they would like to wait...?
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DarkPhenyx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. I do it in my underware and when they ask what the chance is..
Edited on Thu Apr-08-04 07:02 PM by DarkPhenyx
...that they could come in and talk to me about God I ask what the chance of one of them giving me a blowjob is. They don't come to my door anymore.

I have a feeling my mail carrier isn't going to appreciate if I try the same tactic on my mail.
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supernova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. The last fundie who came to my door
some huge honkin' guy, Tom Delay wannabe, was selling one of those awful xtain women's magazines.

He started trying to tell me about The Fall and how women need to be saved.....

I talking him into the Fortunate Fall. It's a *good* idea that Adam and Eve left the Garden... LOL!

I told the teenage girl who was with him to graduate, go to Smith and smoke some pot. :P

They don't come to my door anymore either.
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DarkPhenyx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. You go girl!
BTW: You can come to my door anytime. Give me notice and I can guarentee there won't be any underware. ;-)
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
6. Fundies do not get that you can know God without knowing Jesus
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Az Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
30. This sounds like a rehash
They did this about a decade ago IIRC. It backlashed on them and they got some bad press from it. Sounds like they are dusting off the tape again and seeing if they can catch a tail wind offa Mel's flick.
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DarkPhenyx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. Maybe we should tell them that...
...not everything needs to be recycled? Think they'll buy it?
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supernova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. Everything old
is new again.

Keep everything. It comes back in style eventually. ;-)
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 08:16 PM
Response to Original message
39. Oh heck, we got those in Hawai'i last Easter
Wouldn't you just know it. We finally get ahead of the curve on something out here, and it's witless fundie evangelism.

Every single household in the state got one of those. I think mine is still in a pile on the floor somewhere. :P

Wouldn't you just love to know where they got the massive $$$ for this stunt? Who exactly is behind it?
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
40. Just a note about the easter eggs and bunnies.
It comes from a pagan tradition of the spring goddess Estra or Ostara. They symbolized fertility and the newness of spring, baby chicks, baby bunnies, spring blossoms. It makes me long to be a pagan. Do these holier than thou Christians know where these traditions come from?
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supernova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. Not many people
xtains in particular bother to learn the history of the things in our culture. Ashame really. They miss so much.
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DarkPhenyx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. No, they don't.
that's why I love educating them about it.
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walmartsucks Donating Member (149 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-08-04 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
44. Just what I need
One more piece of unsolicited mail
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