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What's the worst that can happen if we get the hell out of Iraq NOW?

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ringmastery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 03:24 PM
Original message
What's the worst that can happen if we get the hell out of Iraq NOW?
Iraquis have a civil war and fight amongst themselves and thousands of Iraquis die?

How is that any different from what's going on now?

Thousands of Iraquis are dying and soon thousands of Americans will die.

Barring a diplomatic miracle (the only thing I see working is splitting Iraq up into various countries so all the ethnic groups have autonomy), I think the Iraqui civil war is inevitable. The only thing that held the country together was Saddam and his iron fist. Now that he's gone, it's a free for all among the various ethnic groups.

We need to cut our losses.

It's only going to get worse.
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truthspeaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
1. "Terrorists will think we're weak and attack us more"
Just preparing you for the freeper response.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. Well, that's not just the freeper response.
Bush has exposed every military and economic weakness we have. We are, literally, naked to our enemies and, thanks again to George, we have a lot more enemies than we used to.

We cannot pull out and leave nothing there but death. But we have clearly lost because they will NEVER let us win. BushCo can't grasp that point. They keep thinking, "A John Wayne movie lasts two hours and then the Americans win and all rejoice."

Bush can't actually do anything. No one sane will negotiate with him. He lies. Thanks to him, we may never again have the position in the world we had since World War II. The next president has a huge job of fence-mending ahead of him. Actually, Kerry may do very well there.

If we actually pull out, and don't pull out of the rest of the Middle East, yeah, they know what makes us run, so they'll do it again. BUT I'm not convinced the terrorism will take the form of more 9/11s. THAT made us attack, the wrong place, but attack nonetheless. I think they'll simply murder Americans in the most hideous, horrible way possible, wherever they find us.

This is a quagmire. This is no way out but into hell.
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. Exactly,
never mind that there was no Iraq-Al-Quada link before we invaded, and we are the reason for most of the mess. I heard that freeper bullshit ad nauseum from all the media whores and wingnut repuke senators and pundits last night, to the point where I had to restrain myself from throwing a hammer through the TV!
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Rowdyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
2. Unless Iran and Turkey get involved
which they will. The Turks despise the Kurds and the Iranians harbor memories of the ten year war with Iraq. Shiites could easily use the instability to overthrow the Egyptian and Saudi governments and install fundamentalists in those countries. Israel would quite easily be drawn in, turning the entire middle east into one giant clusterf**k.

George Bush has opened the door to Hell. I'm afraid it can't just be slammed shut. I wish it could.
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comsymp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Bingo-
Your last line says it all.
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ewagner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. Great analysis
and terribly, terribly true....

The gates of hell have truly been opened.......

thanks for your insight.
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salinen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. GWB has achieved exactly
what he wanted, opening the gates of hell. In true fundie fashion, with the instruction from Pat and Jerry, the revelations they believe will be coming soon, and Jesus will adore them in heaven. Insanity at the highest level.
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
3. Halliburton stock will go down.
Just preparing you for the market reaction.
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Nashyra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
5. My personal opinion is that if we cut and run now we will be
opening ourselves up to more terrorist attacks. Some might think that they can attack us and get away with it. We should get the UN into Iraq and then spend our full force on Bidn laden, and the best way to send a message of wanting to do things differently is to get rid of the asshole, but if Kerry gets in and there is a violent terrorist attack on the US or against US interest overseas then he will have to respond immeadiately and fiercely. This asshole made a grave error in going to war with Iraq and the consequences are very grave if we cut and run, this is a no win situation, but I think that Clark is right and we have to come up with a political answer, and we need the military to stay the course until that happens. This new political remedy can not, I repeat can not happen with the asshole in charge. The best way for a cease to the hostility in Iraq is the impeachment of the * or the clear signal of impending change of regime in the US.
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x-g.o.p.er Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #5
21. The UN as a stabilizing force would be disastrous..
and ineffective without US troops heavily involved. They tried to take over for the US in Somalia in 1993 (seems like Iraq and Somalia have many parallels, minus the ocean of oil beneath Iraq) and they got whacked. They were impotent and what little order that was left when the US left was gone in a matter of weeks. When that happened, the UN pulled out.

The UN is impotent as a military force, unless there is a heavy US involvement with US commanders.
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Mattforclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
6. The worst case scenario
would be something like:

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corporatewhore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
7. we wont do our duty as good colonials and they simply cannot
understand civilization (even though its one of the oldest) because they arnt western christians and all that oil will be gone
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GOPisEvil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
8. See: Afghanistan post-1989.
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
9. the U.S. would lose its credibility in the world
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ex_jew Donating Member (627 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. Can't lose what you don't have
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markus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #9
19. What credibility?
We have none.

The only question is: how do you ask someone to be the last man to die in Iraq?
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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
13. the only way we'll ever get out of Iraq . . .
is to negotiate an arrangement whereby the UN will take over everything -- including the oil -- and that's not about to happen on BushCo's watch . . . remember, their intention is to establish a permanent presence in Iraq, and they're already constructing several military bases for just that purpose . . . the facade will be the establishment of a puppet Iraqi regime that will invite the US to stay to help "keep the peace" . . . although it appears that that particular scenario is getting harder and harder to realize . . . but the bottom line is that BushCo doesn't WANT out of Iraq, either now or in the future . . . it has to do with that sea of oil that the country sits on . . .
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Sgt. Peppers Donating Member (142 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
14. Someone smarter than they, will orginize them. But we still need to get ou
t. The place will still be sand and mud. Sorry not trying to be racist, just honest. It is to bad at how we tore up Bagdad, now Simbad will never return from fighting the cyclops and two headed tiger, (not to mention the giant sea Neptune, Greek God, Witch, Wizard and other bad things.) But a three headed Bush monster is more than even the mighty Simdad could handle.
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Iceburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. The worst thing that could happen .. Iraq establishes its own Theocracy
not unlike the one Bush has established with the religious right coalitions in the USA.
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rumguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
18. civil war - Iran, Syria getting involved
it would be a power vacuum, anything could happen...
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terisel Donating Member (217 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
20. 4 bad things that can happen
What can happen:

1. Country that was the only secular country in middle east might now be run by right wing Ayatollah. Women lose all rights-start getting stoned to death for breaking right-wing morality laws, refused health care and education a la the Taliban-rule in Afghanistan.

2. Turkey uses unrest as excuse to take over north-massacres all Kurds, and creates huge unrest in neighboring countries.

3. Iraq/Iran war resumes with Iran developing nuclear possibilities. US starts war with Iran, using troops returning from Iraq.

4. Extremist-terrorist elements all over the world might assume the US is paper tiger and concentrate on overthrowing the US with terror attacks here and abroad.

The thing that Bush can't pull of but possibly a different president can:
1. Defuse the extremism- be and appear resolute and strong enough to keep the biggest extremists in Iraq from building up their forces and increasing their numbers.
2. Engender trust in the majority of the population that we can help them accomplish a rebuilding of the country, and that we will actually leave when that process is well under way.

In other words we need to communicate a dramatic turnabout from the Stong-BAD America image to a Strong-GOOD America image.

In order to accomplish the above we need to boot Bush, Cheney, and the neocons out of our government, and bring in a truly strong government here and we need to get a lot of our corporate actors out of Iraq.
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