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Knee-jerk hostility toward gays runs rampant in black America.

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NightTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 02:40 PM
Original message
Knee-jerk hostility toward gays runs rampant in black America.
Read all about it here, if your stomach can handle even more bad news:

http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?itemid=1670...
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
1. Bullshit. A few ministers does not "rampant" make.
nt
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NightTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. I was only repeating the subject line of the original story.
I certainly intended no offense! But if you take issue with the name of that piece, you may wish to e-mail its author with your concerns.
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. Author wrote it, but you posted it with the same title
You are responsible for the content of your threads. This isn't Breaking News. There's no requirements about thread title be the same as the article. You are responsible for reading the content of what you post and making sure ehat you say in threads is accurate.
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
2. "Several of Georgia's black clergy " IS NOT Black America
Edited on Wed Apr-07-04 02:59 PM by mouse7
several Pronunciation Key (svr-l, svrl)
adj.
1. Being of a number more than two or three but not many: several miles away.
2. Single; distinct: Pshaw! said I, with an air of carelessness, three several times (Laurence Sterne).
3. Respectively different; various: They parted and went their several ways. See Synonyms at distinct.
4. Law. Relating separately to each party of a bond or note.

pron. (used with a pl. verb)
An indefinite but small number; some or a few: Several of the workers went home sick.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=several

Now would you please explain to me how "several" Bush-enabling Christian right preachers and "a handful of black legislators" extends out to the ALL of Black America?

Don't even start this rubbish. There might be knee-jerk hostility towards a minority group on this thread, but it isn't coming from Black America.
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MsUnderstood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
3. subject is misleading
It should be "Hostility towards gays runs rampant African American Religious leaders"

Maybe that will appease the doubters.

In Fresno (freeperville), my local paper ran an article where a city council member bitched cause the Human rights commission agency of Fresno given the task of supporting causes that supports human rights gave $2500 to a gay pride film festival.

I think it is sad that the leaders of America are forcing anti gay propoganda down our throat. Can't they focus on the important stuff!
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. "Several" is not all Black American ministers, either. n/t
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THUNDER HANDS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
5. this isn't shocking news
Edited on Wed Apr-07-04 03:05 PM by Magic Rat
Both blacks and hispanics are rather frosty on gay rights. Pretty much every poll I've ever seen confirms this.

Equal rights are not equal in everyone's eyes.
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. How is "several" and "a handful" ALL OF BLACK AMERICA?
The story says several ministers and a handful of black legistlators. How in the hell does that extend out to all African-Americans?
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THUNDER HANDS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. in polls
Edited on Wed Apr-07-04 03:11 PM by Magic Rat
Polls have consistently shown that gay rights is not supported in either minority community and the most support for gay rights comes from young, educated white people.

I don't have any in front of me, but I'm sure you could search around for these polls, they came out right around the time Bush was talking about banning gay marriage.

on edit - i never said ALL blacks.
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. "All Blacks", "Black America"
Edited on Wed Apr-07-04 03:24 PM by mouse7
That exactly what the thread starter inferred.

I'd also appreciate it if you claim there is research supporting a position you are taking, that you post the research yourself. I'm not going to go running around the net to find the research to support your claims. Find your own supporting evidence.

There also a hell of a lot more white clergy raging against gay rights than African-American clergy. Where's you're condemnations of frosty treatment by whites?
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THUNDER HANDS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. okay...you wanted evidence....
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. These articles are a boatload of crap.
Edited on Wed Apr-07-04 03:52 PM by mouse7
First link...

Headline says "Blacks object to gay marriage comparison". Read past the headline and you find, "conservative blacks are objecting" and the source is ONE MINISTER and "Alvin Williams, president and CEO of the conservative Black America's Political Action Committee."

So one minister and a GOP sell out equals the entire African-American community? There's more Blacks supporting Gay Rights than against Gay Rights quoted IN THIS ARTICLE. Braun, Sharpton, Sinkford, Garrow all support gay rights. So 4 Blacks quoted for gay rights in this article and 2 GOP toadies against gay rights in this article, and you and the article claim that means the African-American community is against gay rights? Hogwash.

Second link...

You didn't even freakin read it. It's the exact same article as the first with a different headline.

Third link...

A 4 sentence blog post with one quote from one black minister about how slavery affected the Black families of the slavery era is evidence showing Blacks are against gay rights? You ARE kidding, right?

Fourth link...

The last poll shows African-Americans are MIDDLE OF THE PACK among groups, with a little more support among African-Americans for Gay Rights than Protestants as a whole.
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THUNDER HANDS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. sorry I couldn't find every poll ever done
Trust me, I've seen the results of numerous polls in various newspaper articles I've read over the past few months.

I haven't seen any that's showed strong support for gay rights among black and hispanic populations.

If you can, please provide evidence that proves that what I'm saying is incorrect.
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. No, I don't trust you anymore after those horrible links
Edited on Wed Apr-07-04 04:03 PM by mouse7
You said you were posting articles that proved your premise. You gave me an article that proved my statements twice, a four sentence blog post with a quote from an African-American about slavery's effect on black families, and a CBS poll which showed that black support for Gay Rights was within the margin of error of being the same as the national average.

Either post REAL evidence supporting your statement, or quit attacking African-Americans with rubbish charges.

And I did provide point-by-point refutation of your links. I can't help it if you can't find replies on a thread.
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THUNDER HANDS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. what are you talking about
How am I attacking African Americans?

I said polls that I've seen showed that a majority don't support gay marriage. Only slightly more support civil unions.

Sorry I can't find the exact Washington Post story...but it's out there somewhere.

Please, provide some evidence that a majority of blacks DO support gay rights and I'll gladly shove a bananna up my nose and call myself Charlie.
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. There is NO evidence of increased hostility in Black America
Edited on Wed Apr-07-04 04:16 PM by mouse7
NONE!

You showed me a poll that said African-Americans responses regarding gay rights is within the margin of error of the national average for the US population as a whole on gay rights.

You are claiming African-Americans are against gay rights. I say African-Americans respond the same as the rest of the population.

There is NO evidence to support your suggestion there is increased hostility from African-Americans toward the gay community compared to the population as a whole.
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corporatewhore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
10. try being gay in a latino community rooted in catholisism imho it is
Edited on Wed Apr-07-04 03:33 PM by corporatewhore
mostly the religous blacks and latinos that have a problem another thing that pisses me off is that gays only gett painted as rich white guys when their are many black latino GBLTs
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. You mean White Christian Right is more accepting of gay rights?
I don't think so.
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corporatewhore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. what i meant was religous blacks and latinos as opposed to non religous
black and latinos ie it aint because of their skin color but because of their religon i mysef am a bi latina and felt it very difficult fitting in a small heavily catholic latino community as opposed to living in a more secular urban area
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. I agree that religious communities are far less tolerant
Edited on Wed Apr-07-04 04:16 PM by mouse7
My suggestion is that there is there is no more hostility within minority religious groups than there is in white religious groups.

I believe the subject of discussion should be intolerence of religious groups toward Gay rights, not attacks on minority groups. I see no evidence that minority reactions are any different than white reactions on these issues.
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Plaid Adder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
13. It runs rampant in white America too.
The only reason people really make a big deal out of this is that they expect all oppressed groups to stick together. I sure wish we would; it would make things a lot easier on all of us. But the fact is we don't.

The other side of this story is that racism also runs rampant in the gay community, as indeed it does in the straight community. Everywhere I've ever been gay I've seen an awful lot of self-segregation, and in North Carolina I heard there was actual organized segregation at some of the gay bars. There are a lot of white gay people out there who have not gotten their heads around the fact that they are the oppressed now (*cough* Log Cabin *cough*) and need to start rethinking that whole white privilege thing.

C ya,

The Plaid Adder
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
15. Did anyone see Law & Order SVU last night?
it was about black guys, family men, who have sex with men on the side (Ice T called it the "down low") but do not consider themselves gay even though they ARE gay.
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